Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on December 04, 2023, 05:35:18 pm
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701710942_Screenshot_20231204_170716_Gallery.jpg)
The black plastic mixer valve blew off the side of my heater on my last job of the day spewing hot water all over the back of my van and this spring and plastic came out too spruce.... ::)roll
I'm not sure which order it goes back into the mixer valve.....also there was a little black plastic stud with a metal pin thingy in the middle 🤔
I can't seem to find the right information to put this back together correctly?I thought you might be able to help!
Cheers in advance
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Sussed it.
Thin plastic end goes into the heat exchanger hole(with spring over it)and the black plastic stud (with metal pin) goes into the end mixer valve then screw it on.
Just fired up it up and heater working fine as usual.
Do you know why it blew off in the first place spruce?there's not much thread on the valve,maybe it's worked loose with the vibration of driving every day?
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The white plastic bit looks damaged. Make sure none of the broken bits are inside the heater.
If it's blown off once then it probably will fail again. Think of a backup for tomorrow should it fail, i.e can you bypass the heater so you can finish your work? Can you just go home and have a couple of days off while the new parts arrive? Is there a canal boat repair place nearby that might do webasto spares?
See if you can find an exploded view of the heater and see if you can work out why it failed - ie. has a pressure relief valve got stuck with the frost etc.
Look at alternatives for the problem - is your controller dead ending correctly and not over pressurising the heater, any possibility of ice causing a blockage.
Don't just assume you have fixed it!
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The white plastic bit looks damaged. Make sure none of the broken bits are inside the heater.
If it's blown off once then it probably will fail again. Think of a backup for tomorrow should it fail, i.e can you bypass the heater so you can finish your work? Can you just go home and have a couple of days off while the new parts arrive? Is there a canal boat repair place nearby that might do webasto spares?
See if you can find an exploded view of the heater and see if you can work out why it failed - ie. has a pressure relief valve got stuck with the frost etc.
Look at alternatives for the problem - is your controller dead ending correctly and not over pressurising the heater, any possibility of ice causing a blockage.
Don't just assume you have fixed it!
Ched I've had it running for 30 mins tonight and heaters fine.its happened before a few years ago but I forgot how it fitted together.🙂
I've tightened up the nut in the middle of the end valve too...its probably just worked loose over the years with the vibration.
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Looks like a chunk of plastic has gone missing to me. I would spend some Christmas tips and buy a new one. Maybe Loctite the screw thread on the cap of the new one.
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TBH I've never taken one apart.
I can't think why it would blow off in the first place, as the control k nob has a stop lug which only allows the k nob to rotate once.
Looking at the plastic component, I would suggest as Ched that you replace the whole mixer valve.
https://www.butlertechnik.com/webasto-mixer-valve-kit-p1793
https://www.jpcdirect.com/product/isotemp-mixing-valve-kit/
Running the heater on its own won't help you. You need the heat exchanger under pressure with the wfp pump.
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(Sucks through teeth) 'looks expensive Daz'. I see a 4 Star hotel next year!!🤣
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The white plastic bit looks damaged. Make sure none of the broken bits are inside the heater.
If it's blown off once then it probably will fail again. Think of a backup for tomorrow should it fail, i.e can you bypass the heater so you can finish your work? Can you just go home and have a couple of days off while the new parts arrive? Is there a canal boat repair place nearby that might do webasto spares?
See if you can find an exploded view of the heater and see if you can work out why it failed - ie. has a pressure relief valve got stuck with the frost etc.
Look at alternatives for the problem - is your controller dead ending correctly and not over pressurising the heater, any possibility of ice causing a blockage.
Don't just assume you have fixed it!
Last year, no one had stock of those mixer valves; not even the go-to supplier in Turkey.
The solution was a standard mixer valve, which is more readily available from plumbing outlets. These are fine for canal boats as they have a much lower hot water temperature. 46 degrees is the hottest you can get, where we need a much higher temperature output at around 60 degrees C. These are usually mounted on the hot water cylinder in a canal boat and once adjusted, isn't usually changed again.
https://www.butlertechnik.com/eberspacher-or-webasto-thermostatic-mixer-valve-tmv-kit-for-3-4-thread-plate-heat-exchangers-p3453
The other issue is the orientation of the adjuster k nob. On our systems, the heat exchanger is inside the heater boxing with the control k nob outside so we can easily adjust the output temperature. If we use one of the Pegler mixer valves, we need to remove the front panel of the heater to make that adjustment. Is it the end of the world? No, because I can't remember when I last adjusted the output temperature. But still, its not ideal.
One of the other issues is pipe orientation inside the heater box. Grippatank do pack their heaters very tightly, so making piping modifications could well mean modifications to the heater hoses.
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I've put this up on the other forum.
Here is the part Daz must order;
https://www.jpcdirect.com/product/isotemp-thermostat-mixing-valve/
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One of mine popped off years ago when I was messing around with the adjustment of the valve. You can tweak it past the stopper to give more or less heat. I think I was trying to reduce my heat output.
I turned the valve down and it came off in my hand.
Not sure if that helps, but if you’ve adjusted it recently then it could be the problem.
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I've put this up on the other forum.
Here is the part Daz must order;
https://www.jpcdirect.com/product/isotemp-thermostat-mixing-valve/
Thanks spruce your a star!👍🙂
I've just ordered it.came to £75 including vat and delivery.
I've currently only got 40c water(coiled up hose ).
It's as if the heater is in constant half heat mode....no matter what I do with the mixer valve.it either comes off the side of the heater or just stays in half heat mode! ::)roll
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
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I've put this up on the other forum.
Here is the part Daz must order;
https://www.jpcdirect.com/product/isotemp-thermostat-mixing-valve/
The bit that can easily come out is the bit behind the black nob if you take that nob off there is a black plastic threaded insert that screws in and out to adjust the temperature, when I had trouble with one of mine years ago you couldn’t buy just the black threaded bit had to by the whole valve at around £100 I think it was. The plastic goes hard and brittle with the constant heat and breaks up .
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
We turn the heat down in summer as it gets that hot you can hold the hose winter time it’s fine
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
Trust me mate...I wish mine didn't have one.i never touch it usually but it just blew off and I can't get it to run on full heat now....
New mixer valve coming tomorrow.i think I'll just try and change the mixer end numpty and the spring and plastic plunger first and see if that cures it....I don't feel confident in changing the whole part tbh.....
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
We turn the heat down in summer as it gets that hot you can hold the hose winter time it’s fine
It does get rather hot at times and that would only bother me if i had employees ,
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
Trust me mate...I wish mine didn't have one.i never touch it usually but it just blew off and I can't get it to run on full heat now....
New mixer valve coming tomorrow.i think I'll just try and change the mixer end numpty and the spring and plastic plunger first and see if that cures it....I don't feel confident in changing the whole part tbh.....
Should be very easy to change mate , i would bypass it myself though , save hassle in the future.
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
Trust me mate...I wish mine didn't have one.i never touch it usually but it just blew off and I can't get it to run on full heat now....
New mixer valve coming tomorrow.i think I'll just try and change the mixer end numpty and the spring and plastic plunger first and see if that cures it....I don't feel confident in changing the whole part tbh.....
As Splash and Dash says, the further you wind the retainer in, the greater the temperature change. I wouldn't touch the valve innards tbh as you will mess up the temperature settings. I would replace it as a unit. Just remove it step by step. I suggest you order some Loctite 572 which is a good thread sealer. Once assembled, you can run the heater, but not the pump side. You must wait until the thread sealer hardens.
If the threads on the housing are damaged, then you are going to repeat the failure by just replacing the 'cartridge.'
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Mine doesnt have a mixer valve and to be honest , i dont really see the point .
Been running without one for years and never felt the need to adjust the temperature , i find that the colder it gets , the cooler the water coming out of the jets , pretty much self regulating , never cracked a window yet ........touch wood!
Trust me mate...I wish mine didn't have one.i never touch it usually but it just blew off and I can't get it to run on full heat now....
New mixer valve coming tomorrow.i think I'll just try and change the mixer end numpty and the spring and plastic plunger first and see if that cures it....I don't feel confident in changing the whole part tbh.....
As Splash and Dash says, the further you wind the retainer in, the greater the temperature change. I wouldn't touch the valve innards tbh as you will mess up the temperature settings. I would replace it as a unit. Just remove it step by step. I suggest you order some Loctite 572 which is a good thread sealer. Once assembled, you can run the heater, but not the pump side. You must wait until the thread sealer hardens.
If the threads on the housing are damaged, then you are going to repeat the failure by just replacing the 'cartridge.'
I think your right spruce.its only 3 bits that need screwing together.ill just replace like with like.
I think I'll leave it until the xmas break to replace it and order some loctite 572 tomorrow.it looks like there's loads of this already on the threads on the old mixer valve.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701819684_Screenshot_20231205_234043_Photos.jpg)
Loads of loctite on the original valve!
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It's actually upside down my mixer valve compared to pic on the website
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701820020_Screenshot_20231205_234445_Chrome.jpg)
🤔
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Don’t Grippa keep spares?
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Don’t Grippa keep spares?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪
Best joke of the year !
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Don’t Grippa keep spares?
Best going else ware if you can
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Do any of you diesel heater users ever change the antifreeze in your header tank?
Mines pretty dirty and gunky now....I think I'll empty mine and refill it with some fresh anti freeze...
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I've got a wet and dry vac so I think I'll just suck all the anti freeze out of the header tank and refill with fresh.
The anti freeze is pink.can I just put any antifreeze in or is it best just to put the pink stuff in?
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Don’t Grippa keep spares?
Yeah they probably do but they'll charge me at least £30 or £40 more for the same part and I'll be waiting weeks for delivery
I've already got the new mixer valve in less than 24 hours from ordering!
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Don’t mix antifreeze colours.
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Do any of you diesel heater users ever change the antifreeze in your header tank?
Mines pretty dirty and gunky now....I think I'll empty mine and refill it with some fresh anti freeze...
Yes I change ours every three years it’s a 50-50 long life anti freeze mix
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I've got a wet and dry vac so I think I'll just suck all the anti freeze out of the header tank and refill with fresh.
The anti freeze is pink.can I just put any antifreeze in or is it best just to put the pink stuff in?
I was told to use the long life red antifreeze at 50-50 mix
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I've never changed the antifreeze before.its 6 years old!😄👍
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Just ordered 10L of mannol G12 antifreeze.do I just mix it 50/50 with water and pour it in just over half way in the header tank?obviously I won't need 10L but it's good to have some spare...
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Just ordered 10L of mannol G12 antifreeze.do I just mix it 50/50 with water and pour it in just over half way in the header tank?obviously I won't need 10L but it's good to have some spare...
Yes ,i fill mine to between 1/2 and 3/4 of the tank
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701820020_Screenshot_20231205_234445_Chrome.jpg)
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You put the new one back the exact same way as you took the faulty one off.
If you look carefully, you will see the there are flow arrows on the mixer valve.
You know the cold water inlet is opposite the k nob.
If you look at the couplers nearly opposite each other, you will again see the arrows showing the direction of flow.
The fitting with the olive and nut is the side that threads into the heat exchanger.
If you are unsure, then start the heater and the run your wfp pump. You will quickly be able to feel the hot water inlet and the cooler outlet at the top that will eventually get hot water to your brush head.
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Looks pretty straightforward to be fair.
I think I'll sort it(and the antifreeze)in between Xmas and New year.im having 11 days off and itll be a nice diversion from the Xmas food and celebrations! :)
I think I'll check all the wiring and
tighten up any fittings too.
Should I leave the locktite to cure for a few days before firing up the heater Spruce?
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Looks pretty straightforward to be fair.
I think I'll sort it(and the antifreeze)in between Xmas and New year.im having 11 days off and itll be a nice diversion from the Xmas food and celebrations! :)
I think I'll check all the wiring and
tighten up any fittings too.
Should I leave the locktite to cure for a few days before firing up the heater Spruce?
24 hours should be fine. I would then start the heater and get the internal circuit's heat to around 50 degrees and leave it for another 24 hours. Don't use the wfp pump at all during this time.
That should have cured for long enough during the cold weather to use it.
Then test the heater and mixer valve for leaks under pressure.
Smear the loctite onto the threads of male connectors only. When screwing the components together, the excess loctite will be outside and easily wiped off. If you put loctite on the female threads for example, the excess will end up inside the mixer valve or heat exchanger. You don't want that.
It reminds me of cement. You mix it first and it's sloppy. In a few hours the chemical reaction starts and the concrete begins to get hard. The water does start to evaporate from the mixture, but if we keep the concrete wet, it takes 28 days for it to reach full strength.
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/uk/en/product/thread-sealants/loctite_5720.html
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Thanks Spruce.ive ordered that exact bottle(50ml).it's fairly pricey stuff(£33) but hopefully will do the trick.im just hoping the old fittings will unscrew without any problems as there's quite a bit of gunk around the top of the threads....
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
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It's actually upside down my mixer valve compared to pic on the website
Did you get it from Australia?
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Here is an Ionics diesel heater without the mixer valve.
The black hoses at the back are the internal hot water system. The black hose to the left in the front is the hose that supplies cold water from the pump into the heat exchanger. The yellow hose carries hot water from the heat exchanger. It runs up to a pressure relief valve set at 65psi. Normally, that relief valve remains closed directing water to the hose reel and then off to the brush head.
When you close your tap/Univalve, the pressure builds up and blows off the relief valve, directing that hot water back into the tank.
The wfp pump runs all the time.
This way the diesel heater remains working all the time, providing the flow rate of the pump is set high enough.
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Here is an Ionics diesel heater without the mixer valve.
The black hoses at the back are the internal hot water system. The black hose to the left in the front is the hose that supplies cold water from the pump into the heat exchanger. The yellow hose carries hot water from the heat exchanger. It runs up to a pressure relief valve set at 65psi. Normally, that relief valve remains closed directing water to the hose reel and then off to the brush head.
When you close your tap/Univalve, the pressure builds up and blows off the relief valve, directing that hot water back into the tank.
The wfp pump runs all the time.
This way the diesel heater remains working all the time, providing the flow rate of the pump is set high enough.
Spruce
Ive recently started using an Ionic V4 Thermopure and playing around with the settings to get the best out of it.
I use a uni valve, and when turned off, the controller dead ends - should the wfp pump continue (and not dead end) to pump the hot water back into the tank, enabling the diesel heater to remain working?
My flow rate is set at 50 and controller calibration is 28.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
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Here is an Ionics diesel heater without the mixer valve.
The black hoses at the back are the internal hot water system. The black hose to the left in the front is the hose that supplies cold water from the pump into the heat exchanger. The yellow hose carries hot water from the heat exchanger. It runs up to a pressure relief valve set at 65psi. Normally, that relief valve remains closed directing water to the hose reel and then off to the brush head.
When you close your tap/Univalve, the pressure builds up and blows off the relief valve, directing that hot water back into the tank.
The wfp pump runs all the time.
This way the diesel heater remains working all the time, providing the flow rate of the pump is set high enough.
Spruce
Ive recently started using an Ionic V4 Thermopure and playing around with the settings to get the best out of it.
I use a uni valve, and when turned off, the controller dead ends - should the wfp pump continue (and not dead end) to pump the hot water back into the tank, enabling the diesel heater to remain working?
My flow rate is set at 50 and controller calibration is 28.
You will need to raise your controller's calibration.
The pump's calibration setting needs to translate into a pressure setting higher than 65psi to bleed that hot water back into the tank when you activate your Univalve.
Splash and Dash will confirm and correct where necessary.
If you look at this photo, the pressure relief valve is the one on the right on the yellow hose. There is another yellow piece of hose that goes to the top of the tank.
I'm not 100% sure what the other inline fitting is on the left; something to do with a water temperature maybe?
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Thats really helpful, thank you Spruce :)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
A 9.2kw diesel heater won't supply two window cleaners with piping hot water; more so in the winter, when the water in the tank is around 5 to 6 degrees. So a two man system needs to share the heat. That's done by mixer valves.
Today, two of us were working with nearly all our hoses out. My flow setting was 4 (equivalent to 40) and my son's flow setting was 3. The diesel heater was working at full load and neither of us had piping hot water - it was barely luke warm at the brush head.
This is why Ionics have designed their system the way they have. But with a 2 man system, only one operator gets the hot water.
Just a word of caution. Ionics have a summer and winter heat setting. If they didn't feel the operator needed some control of the temperature of the hot water, they wouldn't have included that setting switch, imho.
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Thats really helpful, thank you Spruce :)
[/quoteJust to clarify Spruce, would you recomend increasing the calibration in small increments until the controller no longer dead ends, therfore the pressure valve would have opened diverting the hot water back to the tank.
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The only time I've turned my heater off is on a hot summers day at lunchtime as its too hot to even hold the hose.so I suppose turning it down to min heat setting would be OK.
In winter all diesel heaters should be running on full heat as lots of heat is lost through the hose as well as the starting temperature of the water being a lot lower.
I've noticed my hose is a lot stiffer and less manageable than usual due to the min setting.its not quite as bad as using cold water but it's only marginally better.
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Thats really helpful, thank you Spruce :)
[/quoteJust to clarify Spruce, would you recomend increasing the calibration in small increments until the controller no longer dead ends, therfore the pressure valve would have opened diverting the hot water back to the tank.
Yes.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1702075971_Screenshot_20231208_225005_Photos.jpg)
I don't think I need the nut and washer do I Spruce?it looks like the bit that goes into the heat exchanger just screws in when I look at my heater?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1702076211_Screenshot_20231205_234043_Photos.jpg)
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So when i turn the valve upwards it reaches a stop.does this mean that the heater is now on the absolute min setting?how far do I move it downwards before it's on full heat?(as there's no stop turning it downwards).this is how it came off in the first place 6 years ago as I turned it downwards too much and it came off in my hand.I don't want to make the same mistake again.a quarter turn,half a turn?
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I assume you realise how the valve works?
Basically your pump feeds water from tank to the left side input of the heat exchanger (by the brass tee). The tee feeds to the thermostatic valve which allows cold water to be mixed in with the hot water coming out of the heat exchanger. So if you wanted full heat then remove the valve and screw the angled black hose directly to the heat exchanger and blank the braided silver hose coming from right hand brass tee.
The valve is just an automated mixer tap that controls the outlet temp by varying the amount of cold that's mixed into the hot water outlet.
Hope that helps you to understand how it works.
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If you take of the black k nob off and look at the plastic threaded insert in the brass housing unscrew the incert untill you just start to see the threads on it sticking out of the housing that will be maximum heat . Don’t have more than one thread showing or it is likely to come out , if you feel happier don’t have any threads outside the brass housing this will also give you nearly maximum temperature, this is what I have done with mine when I adjust the temperature hotter I always take the black k nob off when adjusting so I don’t go to far .
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I assume you realise how the valve works?
Basically your pump feeds water from tank to the left side input of the heat exchanger (by the brass tee). The tee feeds to the thermostatic valve which allows cold water to be mixed in with the hot water coming out of the heat exchanger. So if you wanted full heat then remove the valve and screw the angled black hose directly to the heat exchanger and blank the braided silver hose coming from right hand brass tee.
The valve is just an automated mixer tap that controls the outlet temp by varying the amount of cold that's mixed into the hot water outlet.
Hope that helps you to understand how it works.
I've no idea how it works.ive tried to find a diagram online to see how it works but can't find anything....
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If you take of the black k nob off and look at the plastic threaded insert in the brass housing unscrew the incert untill you just start to see the threads on it sticking out of the housing that will be maximum heat . Don’t have more than one thread showing or it is likely to come out , if you feel happier don’t have any threads outside the brass housing this will also give you nearly maximum temperature, this is what I have done with mine when I adjust the temperature hotter I always take the black k nob off when adjusting so I don’t go to far .
It's a crappy design....you shouldn't have to do that to adjust the settings but thanks anyway!👍
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If you take of the black k nob off and look at the plastic threaded insert in the brass housing unscrew the incert untill you just start to see the threads on it sticking out of the housing that will be maximum heat . Don’t have more than one thread showing or it is likely to come out , if you feel happier don’t have any threads outside the brass housing this will also give you nearly maximum temperature, this is what I have done with mine when I adjust the temperature hotter I always take the black k nob off when adjusting so I don’t go to far .
It's a crappy design....you shouldn't have to do that to adjust the settings but thanks anyway!👍
I totally agree , it should work like a tap in my opinion be able to turn it to maximum or minimum without it coming off .
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I can only turn my temperature control k nob for one revolution. It then 'locks' up on that same restrictor lug.
I didn't say this, but you can fractionally adjust the mixer valve. If you turn the k nob in the plus direction, it will come to a stop. If you carefully remove the k nob and turn it (in the air :D) about 45 degrees back and then refit it, you will be able to turn the k nob in the + direction another 1/8 turn.
Yes Daz, the nut and olive aren't required.
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I can only turn my temperature control k nob for one revolution. It then 'locks' up on that same restrictor lug.
Theses ones will screw all the way in to turn the heat down but if you unscrew it it will come off there is no posative stop
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I can only turn my temperature control k nob for one revolution. It then 'locks' up on that same restrictor lug.
Theses ones will screw all the way in to turn the heat down but if you unscrew it it will come off there is no posative stop
I've just been out to my van and I can only turn the k nob in one full revolution. The stop happens both ways.
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I can only turn my temperature control k nob for one revolution. It then 'locks' up on that same restrictor lug.
Theses ones will screw all the way in to turn the heat down but if you unscrew it it will come off there is no posative stop
I've just been out to my van and I can only turn the k nob in one full revolution. The stop happens both ways.
Ok that’s different to all mine they will unscrew about 3 turns from shut
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Here is an Ionics diesel heater without the mixer valve.
The black hoses at the back are the internal hot water system. The black hose to the left in the front is the hose that supplies cold water from the pump into the heat exchanger. The yellow hose carries hot water from the heat exchanger. It runs up to a pressure relief valve set at 65psi. Normally, that relief valve remains closed directing water to the hose reel and then off to the brush head.
When you close your tap/Univalve, the pressure builds up and blows off the relief valve, directing that hot water back into the tank.
The wfp pump runs all the time.
This way the diesel heater remains working all the time, providing the flow rate of the pump is set high enough.
Spruce
Ive recently started using an Ionic V4 Thermopure and playing around with the settings to get the best out of it.
I use a uni valve, and when turned off, the controller dead ends - should the wfp pump continue (and not dead end) to pump the hot water back into the tank, enabling the diesel heater to remain working?
My flow rate is set at 50 and controller calibration is 28.
You will need to raise your controller's calibration.
The pump's calibration setting needs to translate into a pressure setting higher than 65psi to bleed that hot water back into the tank when you activate your Univalve.
Splash and Dash will confirm and correct where necessary.
If you look at this photo, the pressure relief valve is the one on the right on the yellow hose. There is another yellow piece of hose that goes to the top of the tank.
I'm not 100% sure what the other inline fitting is on the left; something to do with a water temperature maybe?
Correct spruce , its a temperature sender and the guage is on the top panel .
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Here is an Ionics diesel heater without the mixer valve.
The black hoses at the back are the internal hot water system. The black hose to the left in the front is the hose that supplies cold water from the pump into the heat exchanger. The yellow hose carries hot water from the heat exchanger. It runs up to a pressure relief valve set at 65psi. Normally, that relief valve remains closed directing water to the hose reel and then off to the brush head.
When you close your tap/Univalve, the pressure builds up and blows off the relief valve, directing that hot water back into the tank.
The wfp pump runs all the time.
This way the diesel heater remains working all the time, providing the flow rate of the pump is set high enough.
Spruce
Ive recently started using an Ionic V4 Thermopure and playing around with the settings to get the best out of it.
I use a uni valve, and when turned off, the controller dead ends - should the wfp pump continue (and not dead end) to pump the hot water back into the tank, enabling the diesel heater to remain working?
My flow rate is set at 50 and controller calibration is 28.
You will need to raise your controller's calibration.
The pump's calibration setting needs to translate into a pressure setting higher than 65psi to bleed that hot water back into the tank when you activate your Univalve.
Splash and Dash will confirm and correct where necessary.
If you look at this photo, the pressure relief valve is the one on the right on the yellow hose. There is another yellow piece of hose that goes to the top of the tank.
I'm not 100% sure what the other inline fitting is on the left; something to do with a water temperature maybe?
Correct spruce , its a temperature sender and the guage is on the top panel .
Thanks
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
A 9.2kw diesel heater won't supply two window cleaners with piping hot water; more so in the winter, when the water in the tank is around 5 to 6 degrees. So a two man system needs to share the heat. That's done by mixer valves.
Today, two of us were working with nearly all our hoses out. My flow setting was 4 (equivalent to 40) and my son's flow setting was 3. The diesel heater was working at full load and neither of us had piping hot water - it was barely luke warm at the brush head.
This is why Ionics have designed their system the way they have. But with a 2 man system, only one operator gets the hot water.
Just a word of caution. Ionics have a summer and winter heat setting. If they didn't feel the operator needed some control of the temperature of the hot water, they wouldn't have included that setting switch, imho.
I disconnected that when i rewired it and replaced the webasto unit(the original one was 10 years old ) , i never noticed any difference between the two settings when it was connected anyway, new heater has been in nearly 5 years now and not needed a service or burner /glowpin and still running like day one . I think the way ionics do it works better for keeping the heater unit carbon free as its running full tilt all day .
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
A 9.2kw diesel heater won't supply two window cleaners with piping hot water; more so in the winter, when the water in the tank is around 5 to 6 degrees. So a two man system needs to share the heat. That's done by mixer valves.
Today, two of us were working with nearly all our hoses out. My flow setting was 4 (equivalent to 40) and my son's flow setting was 3. The diesel heater was working at full load and neither of us had piping hot water - it was barely luke warm at the brush head.
This is why Ionics have designed their system the way they have. But with a 2 man system, only one operator gets the hot water.
Just a word of caution. Ionics have a summer and winter heat setting. If they didn't feel the operator needed some control of the temperature of the hot water, they wouldn't have included that setting switch, imho.
I disconnected that when i rewired it and replaced the webasto unit(the original one was 10 years old ) , i never noticed any difference between the two settings when it was connected anyway, new heater has been in nearly 5 years now and not needed a service or burner /glowpin and still running like day one . I think the way ionics do it works better for keeping the heater unit carbon free as its running full tilt all day .
^^^^ I agree. It also keeps the furnace working all day once setup correctly, which means no stop start, which is a problem for some cleaners using a diesel heater.
The only downside is that it's always going to be a single operator heater. Yes, the second cold water operator will get a bit of warmth from the heat bleed-off back into the tank. but I can't see this being a game changer.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
A 9.2kw diesel heater won't supply two window cleaners with piping hot water; more so in the winter, when the water in the tank is around 5 to 6 degrees. So a two man system needs to share the heat. That's done by mixer valves.
Today, two of us were working with nearly all our hoses out. My flow setting was 4 (equivalent to 40) and my son's flow setting was 3. The diesel heater was working at full load and neither of us had piping hot water - it was barely luke warm at the brush head.
This is why Ionics have designed their system the way they have. But with a 2 man system, only one operator gets the hot water.
Just a word of caution. Ionics have a summer and winter heat setting. If they didn't feel the operator needed some control of the temperature of the hot water, they wouldn't have included that setting switch, imho.
I disconnected that when i rewired it and replaced the webasto unit(the original one was 10 years old ) , i never noticed any difference between the two settings when it was connected anyway, new heater has been in nearly 5 years now and not needed a service or burner /glowpin and still running like day one . I think the way ionics do it works better for keeping the heater unit carbon free as its running full tilt all day .
^^^^ I agree. It also keeps the furnace working all day once setup correctly, which means no stop start, which is a problem for some cleaners using a diesel heater.
The only downside is that it's always going to be a single operator heater. Yes, the second cold water operator will get a bit of warmth from the heat bleed-off back into the tank. but I can't see this being a game changer.
Two of my vans have thermopures in them and by lunch time the tank water is quite hot so the second pump is also hot water although it’s not as hot as the boiler one
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1701962402_Screenshot_20231207_151126_Photos.jpg)
This came out of the inside of my black mixer valve along with the spring and plastic plunger.i just screwed the black k nob back on today without these components inside thinking it would raise the temperature of the heater but to no avail!
My heater now seems to be on a low setting so only getting luke warm water with hose out(40c coiled hose on the reel instead of 65c-70c)....
I've put these components back into the valve hole but water still just warm instead of hot🔥
It makes no difference whether these are inside or not🤷♂️
You need to 'block' the cold water hose going to the mixer valve. You will then divert all the cold water through the heat exchanger. I wouldn't even bother, tbh.
Yes, this locktite is expensive, but there is no variant of locktite that isn't. It's the king (or 3M) of thread lockers and sealants.
I've tried to use blue thread locker before as a thread sealer. It didn't work. Neither did a thread sealer plumbers use. I phoned Purefreedom, and they told me about 572 as the only stuff they found to work, long term. Mine as been running 5 years now and no leaks.
It's a bit of a ballache getting to my heater,I have to take my heavy PF electric reel and plywood out and unscrew 4 bolts on the heater cover.
I think I'll take my time and make sure all 3 fittings are tight,leave to cure for 48 hours then fire up the heater and hopefully that will have solved the problem.
I don't understand why they put a mixer valve on these heaters in the first place?🙄
Full heat setting is all I want all year round.
I don't know anyone who's not had a problem with these valves coming off on their diesel heaters!
A 9.2kw diesel heater won't supply two window cleaners with piping hot water; more so in the winter, when the water in the tank is around 5 to 6 degrees. So a two man system needs to share the heat. That's done by mixer valves.
Today, two of us were working with nearly all our hoses out. My flow setting was 4 (equivalent to 40) and my son's flow setting was 3. The diesel heater was working at full load and neither of us had piping hot water - it was barely luke warm at the brush head.
This is why Ionics have designed their system the way they have. But with a 2 man system, only one operator gets the hot water.
Just a word of caution. Ionics have a summer and winter heat setting. If they didn't feel the operator needed some control of the temperature of the hot water, they wouldn't have included that setting switch, imho.
I disconnected that when i rewired it and replaced the webasto unit(the original one was 10 years old ) , i never noticed any difference between the two settings when it was connected anyway, new heater has been in nearly 5 years now and not needed a service or burner /glowpin and still running like day one . I think the way ionics do it works better for keeping the heater unit carbon free as its running full tilt all day .
^^^^ I agree. It also keeps the furnace working all day once setup correctly, which means no stop start, which is a problem for some cleaners using a diesel heater.
The only downside is that it's always going to be a single operator heater. Yes, the second cold water operator will get a bit of warmth from the heat bleed-off back into the tank. but I can't see this being a game changer.
On a side note , at ten years old when i bought it , it still had the original pumps working perfectly , aquatec ddp7800, they are without doubt the best quality pump you can buy for wfp. Shurflo are awful quality now and i had a flojet that literally fell aprt after 3-4 months.
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Today's the day!it's the only day that's gonna be dry here!off for a family walk this afternoon so gonna crack on this morning.
Replace mixer valve
Change antifreeze
Replace pump fittings
Check wiring and hose fittings/hoses
Happy Xmas guys!
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No need to change the entire brass fitting Spruce!I simply changed the plastic plunger,spring,screw thread and k *n*o*b and my heater is now on full heat setting.i did try to undo the nuts and they are on tight so left them.
I did what you suggested Splash and dash and just undid the threaded bit a little so a small bit is showing then screwed the k*n*o*b back on.i was getting 58c after 20 mins of firing up the heater(coiled hose temperature).too hot to leave my hand under(ambient air temperature 6c this morning).
Changed antifreeze in header tank(the wet and dry vac got rid of the old stuff),taped up a few of the wires that needed it then washed missus car.
So good to have piping hot water again ready for the new year!🙂👍
It's a pity you can't just buy the innards of the mixer valve rather than the whole fitting!works like a dream again now!
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1703612333_Screenshot_20231226_173819_Photos.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1703612351_Screenshot_20231226_173812_Photos.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1703612369_Screenshot_20231226_173802_Photos.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1703612380_Screenshot_20231226_173756_Photos.jpg)
Need to change the plywood under my reel but I'll do that in the spring
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I was getting 60c water after 20 mins of firing the heater up this morning(coiled hose temperature).
PERFECT!!!🙂👍