Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jo5hm4n on October 22, 2023, 07:24:32 pm
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Customer has accused us of scratching their glass on an upstairs window. She noticed it today whilst the sun was shining bright on the glass. For reference we have cleaned for this customer for 2 years, but at her new property only about 6 months now.
Last time a customer accused us of scratching glass this happened was 2021. I usually get this once every couple years.
I came to the conclusion years ago that it's not possible to scratch glass using standard wfp. We don't use razor blades or anything abrasive for window cleaning. We just use standard wfp brushes.
So based on that alone, this is the standard reply i send whenever a customer accuses us of scratching the glass.
I am not even willing to entertain the possibility that we have caused it because i just don't see how its possible to scratch glass with wfp, especially when its more than 1 scratch, lots of long ones almost like someone has used a stanley blade on the glass at some point.
Let me know what you think of my approach and also my reply.
Dear Customer,
Many thanks for communicating with me with the issue of the scratched glass, I am sure that you must be concerned about this matter on your property.
First of all I would like to assure you that the methods we use and have used on your property since 2021, along with the specialist brushes selected for your windows, are chosen so that it is not possible to scratch glass of any sort, whether new glass or skylights.
The brushes are made by a specialist company who have been supplying them to the WFP window cleaning industry for over a decade now and are made using PBT polyester bristles and nylon stocks. Both materials are not hard enough to scratch glass in use. They are also designed not to hold on to grit or stones in cleaning.
We do not believe we have caused this scratch due to the high quality tools and standards we use.
However we have found that sometimes scratches have been caused by other work done nearby or general house or garden maintenance and then not noticed for many months or even longer years until a bright day when the sun strikes it from a certain angle.
Because imperfections may be imperceptible in dull conditions and the window is often dirty due to weather this might go unnoticed until a sunny day after the windows have been cleaned.
Therefore, in view of the above my operative did not cause the scratches to your glass.
Yours Sincerely
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I've been accused twice now in 13 years of WFP...
I've gone round the next day and taken a look.both times there was more than one scratch and they both had workmen on their properties in the last month or so....
I basically said there's no way my brush would scratch glass like that and they both agreed it wasnt me at fault.👍
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While it’s highly unlikely using the brush correctly - they can scratch - seen - done it
I would agree ground level but not first floor as there is no passing ‘traffic’
I scratched glass from a bird strike by just scrubbing it
These things come down to ‘how likely’ itwas done by you and how you want to been for customer service - if you feel 100% it could not be you/worker then stand your ground
I have staff so I can’t personally say the staff didn’t do it so for the cost I will replace the glass - I think I’ve done this 3 times over 14 years with an average of 5 windys on the glass
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Clean white scouring pads won't scratch glass providing glass is kept wet, but clogged up pads have a possibility of scratching glass.
Side of stock brush is a good cause for scratching glass when stubborn dirt isn't shifted easily and an employee uses the stock brush on it's edge to try shifting cemented bird poop if no scouring pad fitted. Find Gardiners gooseneck pads very good for shifting stubborn marks on glass.
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Ive been accused a few times. One customer i was cleaning for years, she had new windows fitted and 6 months later on a sunny day saw some scratches. When i pointed out what the cause likley was she cancelled me as did her sister who lived next door. She didnt see the logic in that i had been cleaning both houses years until she had new windows fitted. She asked straight away if i was insured, she was gutted as she had signed off on the windows when they were fitted and they "definitely werent scratched then".
To be honest when ever ive had the scratch complaint i just say sorry it wasnt me. Unless they have video footage of you putting a scratch in them theres nothing they can do anyway.
A couple of months ago a customer accused me off damage to his soffits. He had new soffit fitted and one day after i had cleaned them i got a message saying he wasnt happy i had damaged his soffits. I went to have a look thinking maybe i had scratched above the top frame with the edge of the brush...turns out there was hole about a foot away from the glass the size of a tennis ball. I just told him to p off the cheeky c**t i hadnt been anywhere near it! ;D im not known for my customer service though another one dumped.
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I think your reply is a bit too wordy. Just tell them you’re certain that you didn’t cause the scratch and offer to go around and show them your cleaning method and the equipment used.
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Offer to show them the brush to prove that it couldn't scratch the glass. There's nothing other than plastic/nylon in contact with the glass!
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I would take a look. I was accused of scratching glass once, turned out to be a strand of cobweb.
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Ive been accused a few times. One customer i was cleaning for years, she had new windows fitted and 6 months later on a sunny day saw some scratches. When i pointed out what the cause likley was she cancelled me as did her sister who lived next door. She didnt see the logic in that i had been cleaning both houses years until she had new windows fitted. She asked straight away if i was insured, she was gutted as she had signed off on the windows when they were fitted and they "definitely werent scratched then".
To be honest when ever ive had the scratch complaint i just say sorry it wasnt me. Unless they have video footage of you putting a scratch in them theres nothing they can do anyway.
A couple of months ago a customer accused me off damage to his soffits. He had new soffit fitted and one day after i had cleaned them i got a message saying he wasnt happy i had damaged his soffits. I went to have a look thinking maybe i had scratched above the top frame with the edge of the brush...turns out there was hole about a foot away from the glass the size of a tennis ball. I just told him to p off the cheeky c**t i hadnt been anywhere near it! ;D im not known for my customer service though another one dumped.
Cant lie, i love your reply the most, but sadly i cant bring myself to be this carefree about it.
I sent her my original message, and she said please can you just come over and discuss it with us.
So i've agreed to go over one day and im going to show her how we clean to prove that basically its like a 0.000001% chance it was probably us ;D
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Offer to show them the brush to prove that it couldn't scratch the glass. There's nothing other than plastic/nylon in contact with the glass!
She has asked me to go round so we are going to do exactly as you have suggested!
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Ive been accused a few times. One customer i was cleaning for years, she had new windows fitted and 6 months later on a sunny day saw some scratches. When i pointed out what the cause likley was she cancelled me as did her sister who lived next door. She didnt see the logic in that i had been cleaning both houses years until she had new windows fitted. She asked straight away if i was insured, she was gutted as she had signed off on the windows when they were fitted and they "definitely werent scratched then".
To be honest when ever ive had the scratch complaint i just say sorry it wasnt me. Unless they have video footage of you putting a scratch in them theres nothing they can do anyway.
A couple of months ago a customer accused me off damage to his soffits. He had new soffit fitted and one day after i had cleaned them i got a message saying he wasnt happy i had damaged his soffits. I went to have a look thinking maybe i had scratched above the top frame with the edge of the brush...turns out there was hole about a foot away from the glass the size of a tennis ball. I just told him to p off the cheeky c**t i hadnt been anywhere near it! ;D im not known for my customer service though another one dumped.
Cant lie, i love your reply the most, but sadly i cant bring myself to be this carefree about it.
I sent her my original message, and she said please can you just come over and discuss it with us.
So i've agreed to go over one day and im going to show her how we clean to prove that basically its like a 0.000001% chance it was probably us ;D
You ve agreed to go round 'one day'.....
I'd be round straight away the next day to sort it out....
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Only if she’s fit.
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Ive been accused a few times. One customer i was cleaning for years, she had new windows fitted and 6 months later on a sunny day saw some scratches. When i pointed out what the cause likley was she cancelled me as did her sister who lived next door. She didnt see the logic in that i had been cleaning both houses years until she had new windows fitted. She asked straight away if i was insured, she was gutted as she had signed off on the windows when they were fitted and they "definitely werent scratched then".
To be honest when ever ive had the scratch complaint i just say sorry it wasnt me. Unless they have video footage of you putting a scratch in them theres nothing they can do anyway.
A couple of months ago a customer accused me off damage to his soffits. He had new soffit fitted and one day after i had cleaned them i got a message saying he wasnt happy i had damaged his soffits. I went to have a look thinking maybe i had scratched above the top frame with the edge of the brush...turns out there was hole about a foot away from the glass the size of a tennis ball. I just told him to p off the cheeky c**t i hadnt been anywhere near it! ;D im not known for my customer service though another one dumped.
Were you playing tennis in his garden?
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Ive been accused a few times. One customer i was cleaning for years, she had new windows fitted and 6 months later on a sunny day saw some scratches. When i pointed out what the cause likley was she cancelled me as did her sister who lived next door. She didnt see the logic in that i had been cleaning both houses years until she had new windows fitted. She asked straight away if i was insured, she was gutted as she had signed off on the windows when they were fitted and they "definitely werent scratched then".
To be honest when ever ive had the scratch complaint i just say sorry it wasnt me. Unless they have video footage of you putting a scratch in them theres nothing they can do anyway.
A couple of months ago a customer accused me off damage to his soffits. He had new soffit fitted and one day after i had cleaned them i got a message saying he wasnt happy i had damaged his soffits. I went to have a look thinking maybe i had scratched above the top frame with the edge of the brush...turns out there was hole about a foot away from the glass the size of a tennis ball. I just told him to p off the cheeky c**t i hadnt been anywhere near it! ;D im not known for my customer service though another one dumped.
Cant lie, i love your reply the most, but sadly i cant bring myself to be this carefree about it.
I sent her my original message, and she said please can you just come over and discuss it with us.
So i've agreed to go over one day and im going to show her how we clean to prove that basically its like a 0.000001% chance it was probably us ;D
I wouldnt expect you to, you have a business with staff and want to keep a reputation.
I stopped caring years ago i`ll just drop them first sign of trouble just cant be bothered.
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Going round on saturday. Offered to go earlier but her and husband work all week long hours.
So she text me back saying this
"These windows were fitted in February this year, by my husband who works for Local Building Plastics. There were no scratches on installation. There wasn’t any scratches on these windows last week and there now is after your window cleaner has visited the property. There has been no building work or maintenance in my garden. The only person to visit the property and touch the windows is the window cleaner.
We clean the windows inside once a week. So nothing has been missed.
I don’t know how your window cleaner would be able to see these scratches from the ground level because we cannot. What I would like is for you to come to the property yourself so we can discuss this further."
So i just replied saying, okay i will come round and discuss it with you further.
The plan is to go there show her the window cleaning brushes in person to show its virtually impossible to scratch the glass. Let her spout off and then ill just conclude saying unless you have actual proof that we caused the scratches, then i am not taking responsbility or accepting fault for it.
Then i will just walk off and leave it at that.
She has already cancelled the GoCardless mandate before the payment was submitted for the clean, so at this point shes binned off the round anyway so i couldn't care less too be honest.
She is lucky i am going round at all. I am trying to be professional because i have staff and a reputation locally but every part of me just wants to block her number and call it a day. Cant be arsed.
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While most on here will all nod sagely and say yeah F the customer - take a step back and think how you would like to be treated in a situation like this
ie.. you leave your car at a garage to be serviced - you pick it up and there is a scratch - garage says to you sorry no proof mate!
The fact is you can scratch a window if the brush picks up some grit - also you as yet have no idea what sort of scratches are on the glass - if its a concentrated area then as said the stock was likely used to remove a bird strike.
If there is a couple of straight very light marks its most likely they have been there from day one - they to see if they are on the inside of the glass.
go look THEN decide your course of action
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Going round on saturday. Offered to go earlier but her and husband work all week long hours.
So she text me back saying this
"These windows were fitted in February this year, by my husband who works for Local Building Plastics. There were no scratches on installation. There wasn’t any scratches on these windows last week and there now is after your window cleaner has visited the property. There has been no building work or maintenance in my garden. The only person to visit the property and touch the windows is the window cleaner.
We clean the windows inside once a week. So nothing has been missed.
I don’t know how your window cleaner would be able to see these scratches from the ground level because we cannot. What I would like is for you to come to the property yourself so we can discuss this further."
So i just replied saying, okay i will come round and discuss it with you further.
The plan is to go there show her the window cleaning brushes in person to show its virtually impossible to scratch the glass. Let her spout off and then ill just conclude saying unless you have actual proof that we caused the scratches, then i am not taking responsbility or accepting fault for it.
Then i will just walk off and leave it at that.
She has already cancelled the GoCardless mandate before the payment was submitted for the clean, so at this point shes binned off the round anyway so i couldn't care less too be honest.
She is lucky i am going round at all. I am trying to be professional because i have staff and a reputation locally but every part of me just wants to block her number and call it a day. Cant be arsed.
Like you say if shes cancelled the dd shes already decided its your fault and binned you off, i would just send her an email or text saying sorry its wasnt you then block her and forget about it.
I dont see what having a look is going to do except maybe make it worse, if you are not going to admit liability theres no point it could only get heated.
When i went to look at mr tennis ball soffit he wanted me to go after 4pm when he was in to discuss, i could tell from his snotty message he was blaming me not asking...so i just went and had a look when was convenient for me then messaged him with the results of my findings.... There was no point me going to "discuss " because he wasnt going to like me saying no and i wouldnt have responded well to any hostility.
Brush it under the carpet and move on.
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Personally I would want to see it for myself.....sometimes it can be on the inside of the window!which is a fantastic feeling when you prove them wrong! ;D
I've proved quite a few wrong over the years whether it's a scratch or a mark/dirt on the glass....
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We have been accused a few times , only once was legitimate where someone had used a blade improperly , i have also seen it when using stock of brush to get off bird poo - lesson learned , leave the bird poo rather than scratch the glass with stock. All other accusations were due to new windows and/or previous non w/c workmen have causedand our cleaning highlighted the scratchs. i have attempted to scratch the glass on our portacabin window by picking up grit on brush on purpose , even that didnt cause any scratches.
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I have a customer (she's ok, but not brilliant) who skipped because she was having building works done. No problem.
It turns out she had a small brick conservatory built and then cancelled the next clean as some of the windows were scratched (from the builder) so not worth cleaning the rest of the house! Yes big yawn!
I then contacted her and...not worth cleaning again because the decorators (decorating the Conny) had scratched the glass...so again not worth doing!
Curiosity got the better of me (and I clean the estate) so I popped by. Again tails of whoe!
Unfortunately, I won't be cleaning for her anymore.
The reality is I can't be arsed cleaning the conny, in case it's my turn to have scratched the glass!
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Any update OP?
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Hello
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Ciao, come stai ?
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Perhaps the custard has him locked up the cellar or buried under the patio 🧐
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Maybe he’s busy composing another reply? ;D
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Dirt & Grit can get onto the brush via cleaning the Sills. Then carry onto the next window
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Dirt & Grit can get onto the brush via cleaning the Sills. Then carry onto the next window
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There's an echo in here ;D
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Customer delayed the home visit. Will be done tomorrow at 2pm. I repeat tomorrow 2pm.
Get your popcorn at the ready folks.
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Customer delayed the home visit. Will be done tomorrow at 2pm. I repeat tomorrow 2pm.
Get your popcorn at the ready folks.
My popcorn is still at the ready.
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Customer delayed the home visit. Will be done tomorrow at 2pm. I repeat tomorrow 2pm.
Get your popcorn at the ready folks.
My popcorn is still at the ready.
Mine's been eaten.
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Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.
First of all i couldn't personally attend the property. I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days. I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.
We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes. That was our agenda. The customer had their own agenda. They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look. My husband is a professional window fitter. He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day. He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows. Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess. I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.
So its her word vs his word. Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches. After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.
They were adamant it was us end of. They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments. They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.
My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.
I sat for an hour and thought about it. Do i believe we caused the scratches? No. Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it? Hell no.
I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good. I like a simple stress free live as is possible.
I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us. We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.
I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass. I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice. She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much. My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.
All in all the glass cost me £113. It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.
So what have i learned from this ordeal?
Not fully sure. Still dont believe we caused the scratches. One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle. Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation. If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.
Also final closing note. 10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage. £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.
Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hope you enjoyed folks. My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues! What can ya do though!
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Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.
First of all i couldn't personally attend the property. I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days. I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.
We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes. That was our agenda. The customer had their own agenda. They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look. My husband is a professional window fitter. He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day. He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows. Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess. I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.
So its her word vs his word. Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches. After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.
They were adamant it was us end of. They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments. They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.
My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.
I sat for an hour and thought about it. Do i believe we caused the scratches? No. Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it? Hell no.
I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good. I like a simple stress free live as is possible.
I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us. We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.
I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass. I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice. She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much. My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.
All in all the glass cost me £113. It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.
So what have i learned from this ordeal?
Not fully sure. Still dont believe we caused the scratches. One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle. Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation. If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.
Also final closing note. 10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage. £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.
Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hope you enjoyed folks. My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues! What can ya do though!
I totally agree with your reasoning , I think I would have given them my insurance details and let them argue it with the insurance company , then if they don’t pay out they can argue with them not me . I got accused of scratching a patio door glass a few years ago I know 100% I didn’t do it and told the customer that but she was going nuts so in the end I paid for it £130 and then explained I would not continue working for her as ime not going to be accused for damage I have not caused and end up having to pay for it again , at the time my insurance did not cover the glass being worked on but now we are covered .But again if you claim off the insurance my excess is £250 so would have to pay that anyway and then guessing the premiums will go up so it’s probably cheaper to just pay out . Now we point out damage and scratches to customers and won’t clean a window that’s damaged until the customer seen it and agrees it’s scratched before we touched it , like you I have only been had like this once in 24 years so not to bad .
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Great post - I am still digesting it but will in the short term make 1 observation and ask 1 question...
From the customers reaction I would say they are a genuine claim - to be honest they had nothing to gain - only hassle - trusted employee or no, you cant always take there word. (downside of employee's)
Ask Alex G and get a written statement his brushes will noe scratch the glass ... When you get that you can come from the angle you cant possibly have scratched the glass - i don't think you will get one - Yes in normal operation its highly unlikely - but it can and does happen
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b******s to that once they started shouting and being aggressive it would be game over from me. I would have blocked them and their family on facebook, phone numbers and sucked up the google review.
I know we dont see it the same, your way was definitely the right professional response though no doubt.
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Thanks for the update Josh 👍. One thing to question is how did the crusty know there was a scraper on the end of the pole? I'm not trying to doubt your employee but.....
I hope your back gets better soon!
On a side note has anyone else noticed that some new panes of glass have a sheen affect between the panes? I've seen it a lot on especially large patio windows. Id be asking for the glass to be replaced if it was mine, but customers don't spot things like we do a lot of the time.
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Thanks for the update Josh 👍. One thing to question is how did the crusty know there was a scraper on the end of the pole? I'm not trying to doubt your employee but.....
I hope your back gets better soon!
On a side note has anyone else noticed that some new panes of glass have a sheen affect between the panes? I've seen it a lot on especially large patio windows. Id be asking for the glass to be replaced if it was mine, but customers don't spot things like we do a lot of the time.
I think that Sheen is the heat reflective film that’s put in glass now ?
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+1 for the above post
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Nowadays if the customer doesn't go away when we tell them it's highly unlikely that we caused the damage we pass it on to the insurance.
Insurance companies are better at arguing than I am + they don't get emotional.
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How many times are you getting this soupy?
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How many times are you getting this soupy?
I've had it maybe 5 or 6 times in 24 years and 9 months.
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so pretty rare then, ive had 4 in 14 years - 2 defo caused by the brush - 2 - could not prove either way
- So in your experience all of yours are "fakers" - not a genuine scratch among them ?
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Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.
First of all i couldn't personally attend the property. I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days. I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.
We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes. That was our agenda. The customer had their own agenda. They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look. My husband is a professional window fitter. He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day. He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows. Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess. I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.
So its her word vs his word. Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches. After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.
They were adamant it was us end of. They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments. They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.
My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.
I sat for an hour and thought about it. Do i believe we caused the scratches? No. Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it? Hell no.
I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good. I like a simple stress free live as is possible.
I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us. We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.
I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass. I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice. She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much. My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.
All in all the glass cost me £113. It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.
So what have i learned from this ordeal?
Not fully sure. Still dont believe we caused the scratches. One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle. Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation. If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.
Also final closing note. 10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage. £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.
Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hope you enjoyed folks. My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues! What can ya do though!
I understand completely why you did that.
One question. Are you still keeping them as a customer or are you parting ways?
Despite resolving the matter, if I believed it wasn't my employee I wouldn't go back.
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I wouldn’t have sent a family member around to check it out no matter how experienced they were. I would have waited until one of the good days that I was able leave the house and went myself. I would then have got a first hand account of the customers claims as to why they thought the damage was caused by the employee. Then I would have checked the damaged window to see if the scratch pattern was consistent with brush or scraping movements. After this if there was still any doubt at all I would just pay to have the damage fixed.
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I wouldn’t have sent a family member around to check it out no matter how experienced they were. I would have waited until one of the good days that I was able leave the house and went myself. I would then have got a first hand account of the customers claims as to why they thought the damage was caused by the employee. Then I would have checked the damaged window to see if the scratch pattern was consistent with brush or scraping movements. After this if there was still any doubt at all I would just pay to have the damage fixed.
I haven't left the house in 6 weeks other than to go to hospital due to 10/10 pain off the scale. Right now there is no good days in my life even on seriously strong pain killers. The family member is also involved in the business directly, and currently dealing with all staff, day to day runnings of the business and fixing/repairing equipment so they are more than equipped to make serious decisions on my behalf if needed. Me attending the customers property in my current state is not possibly under any circumstances. I had all of the facts presented to me from every angle and i believe that i made the right decision in the end.
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Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.
First of all i couldn't personally attend the property. I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days. I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.
We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes. That was our agenda. The customer had their own agenda. They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look. My husband is a professional window fitter. He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day. He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows. Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess. I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.
So its her word vs his word. Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches. After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.
They were adamant it was us end of. They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments. They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.
My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.
I sat for an hour and thought about it. Do i believe we caused the scratches? No. Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it? Hell no.
I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good. I like a simple stress free live as is possible.
I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us. We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.
I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass. I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice. She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much. My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.
All in all the glass cost me £113. It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.
So what have i learned from this ordeal?
Not fully sure. Still dont believe we caused the scratches. One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle. Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation. If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.
Also final closing note. 10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage. £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.
Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hope you enjoyed folks. My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues! What can ya do though!
I understand completely why you did that.
One question. Are you still keeping them as a customer or are you parting ways?
Despite resolving the matter, if I believed it wasn't my employee I wouldn't go back.
I have not told the customer yet, but i am not planning on keeping them on as a customer. I can't see a happy ending to this story.
1) my employee is adamant he did not cause the scratch, and i still believe him. If i send him back, i don't think that is a good idea at all for employee relations amongst other things.
2) Given everything that happened including the customer being abusive when we refused to replace the glass, i no longer want them as a customer for multiple reasons, but mainly the abuse that they dished out.
When the glass has been replaced, i will find a way to politely tell the customer and hope they go quietly lol
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Thanks for the update Josh 👍. One thing to question is how did the crusty know there was a scraper on the end of the pole? I'm not trying to doubt your employee but.....
I hope your back gets better soon!
On a side note has anyone else noticed that some new panes of glass have a sheen affect between the panes? I've seen it a lot on especially large patio windows. Id be asking for the glass to be replaced if it was mine, but customers don't spot things like we do a lot of the time.
So sneakily i got my worker to remove the plastic gardiners scrape before we attended the property. Didn't want to give them an inch to run with. They saw the pole without a scraper on, but they said we were cleaning the bird muck with something that looked abrasive.
Chances are they have seen our scrapers on previous cleans and were just clutching. We have been cleaning for almost 3 years, so at some point they probably did see us use the scraper.
Thank you for the kind words
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Great post - I am still digesting it but will in the short term make 1 observation and ask 1 question...
From the customers reaction I would say they are a genuine claim - to be honest they had nothing to gain - only hassle - trusted employee or no, you cant always take there word. (downside of employee's)
Ask Alex G and get a written statement his brushes will noe scratch the glass ... When you get that you can come from the angle you cant possibly have scratched the glass - i don't think you will get one - Yes in normal operation its highly unlikely - but it can and does happen
I think you are right. It would be interesting to get Alex G take on this situation or on scratching glass as a whole. I am sure he has to deal with this alot over the years as a manufacturer of brushes. You are right. Its basically customers word vs Employee. I can't fully trust either, so another reason to just pay out. Its a problem that goes away with £100. Plus i dont have to deal with insurance premiums going up or excess which is like £250 anyway. Paying out cash was the best option i think.
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b******s to that once they started shouting and being aggressive it would be game over from me. I would have blocked them and their family on facebook, phone numbers and sucked up the google review.
I know we dont see it the same, your way was definitely the right professional response though no doubt.
If i was still a one man band with good health, no staff i would totally have been way more inclined to do this 100%. From a principle point of view, i would still rather take your approach, but having staff, and family member in place also managing staff and day to day operations, i have to think differently now, there is more on the line than just my own pride or ego. Way more at stake so professional response was the best way in the end i reckon.
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firstly -I would have paid out - TBH there is no other way.
While I trust my employee's I can tell you this without a doubt - they would rather Lie/Deny any wrong than fess up - ive had examples of this
I am a bit concerned about your post - I sneakily removed the scraper ? - WHY ? somewhere in all this you must acknowledge the possibility your employee has done this - and then you are presenting a case different to actual events.
One persons point of view is another abusive behaviour...
Its a shame you couldn't go - just to prove in your mind whether it was a scraper/brush or bogus claim - that could only be done by you in person.
Thankfully these things are very rare
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firstly -I would have paid out - TBH there is no other way.
While I trust my employee's I can tell you this without a doubt - they would rather Lie/Deny any wrong than fess up - ive had examples of this
I am a bit concerned about your post - I sneakily removed the scraper ? - WHY ? somewhere in all this you must acknowledge the possibility your employee has done this - and then you are presenting a case different to actual events.
One persons point of view is another abusive behaviour...
Its a shame you couldn't go - just to prove in your mind whether it was a scraper/brush or bogus claim - that could only be done by you in person.
Thankfully these things are very rare
I can understand what you mean about employees you can never tell 100% of they are being totally truthful.
The reason why i removed the scraper sneakily is because let be honest. If you look at a Gardiners Plastic Scraper it looks like it could cause scratches. When i first started using them i was reluctant to use it at all, as it just looked like it had potential to do damage! I remember phoning Gardiners and asking them and they said it was perfectly safe to use for scraping. This was donkeys years ago. But what i am trying to say is that if you showed up a customers house and said oh this is the waterfed pole we use, by the way on the back it has a plastic scraper. I feel like you are just asking for them to pass 100% blame that the scraper did the damage, even if it was not used they would still fire blame. That is why i took it off. In my mind i have still never seen scratches be caused by the brush or the Gardiners plastic scraper, but i just didn't want to give the customer the chance for blame, but either way it all backfired didn't it because as i say, they went abusive just from seeing the brush nevermind anything else.
I saw photos of the glass and scratches on them, so that was enough for me to see that it was definitely scratched. There was multiple scratches in lines in 1 small area. Again if my health wasn't absolutely dire i would of gone myself but it's not possible right now.
As you say thankfully these things are rare. Last time we got accused of scratching glass was 4 years ago, and i gave same explanation to the customer as i did this one refused liability and they just accepted it straight away and we still clean their windows to this day lol.
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The Customer is always right.
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The Customer is always right.
They really aren't.
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The Customer is always right.
I remove these types .... they then become non customers.... which makes them not always right ;D
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TBH it would be easier just to get it replaced. poop happens
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TBH it would be easier just to get it replaced. poop happens
Yes all in all it does save alot of hassle just to get it replaced for the sake of £100. The time, stress and hassle even just debating with the customer whos fault it is has a cost. Either hours of your own time or somebody elses, so there is a cost just to even deal with the issues as opposed to just replacing it. So many ways to look at it tbh.