Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Richard iSparkle on October 11, 2022, 02:20:06 pm
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
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Sounds similar to an NHS contract I had a few years ago, great paying work but a massive PITA when they cancelled work at the last minute.
30-50% of PO price paid upfront (non refundable) with the remainder paid on completion. Should certainly focus their minds and stop any cancellations.
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Sounds similar to an NHS contract I had a few years ago, great paying work but a massive PITA when they cancelled work at the last minute.
30-50% of PO price paid upfront (non refundable) with the remainder paid on completion. Should certainly focus their minds and stop any cancellations.
did you do this with the NHS work then?
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We deal with a fair few large Blue chip companies, I would have some terms and conditions on the bottom of every quote, no large company is going to pay upfront.
Even if you just put that a 10 % charge will be made for any work cancelled once start date agreed in writing within 48 hours of start date.
Even with this good luck trying to get them to pay it.
Martin
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Sounds similar to an NHS contract I had a few years ago, great paying work but a massive PITA when they cancelled work at the last minute.
30-50% of PO price paid upfront (non refundable) with the remainder paid on completion. Should certainly focus their minds and stop any cancellations.
did you do this with the NHS work then?
I was in the process of doing this but then the contract was bundled into a massive tender and went to a big FM company.
They probably wouldn’t have paid upfront regardless, but I couldn’t continue on with last minute cancellations so had to do something.
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Terms and conditions.
Put a link to them on your website.
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Tell them to eff off.
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
If this was me, There isn't a particular way to handle it really, it's part of the headaches running your own business, poop happens.
Although I haven't really dealt with blue chip companies I have worked with loads of management companies. I've always found good communication with them helps, letting them know you can't keep being messed around, etc. (it's good if it's someone decent at their end that is helpful).
You can put all the terms and conditions you want but unless you have the clout to back them up they don't mean much to these companies, they will simply get someone else.
The way I would look at it if I make more then I lose out of them then just deal with it, if not get rid. If you do loads of work for them stick a bit extra on the next few jobs to help compensate.
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I have a few biggish commercial jobs and the system we have in place for payment means we get paid in a sensible time frame,I would be wary about taking on big commercial jobs these days and I’d never let them compromise domestics.
I know a roofer he had more work than than he could cope with ridiculously busy,commercial contracts bankrupted him lol on paper he was owed 100s of 1000s in the early 90s the bank wouldn’t wait for him even when he produced council contracts set in stone.
He now cleans windows 😂 and that’s the truth.
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We do work for some large clients , window cleaning is on a set time scale every 6-8 weeks or what ever we just turn up and do it , as for other work , pressure washing, softwashing , gutter vaccing etc ,once a price has been agreed we book a date if they need one and just turn up and do the job , I have never experienced what you have , as far as ime concerned once they have given the go ahead I would be looking to charge them if they cancel last muinit , but as I say never had any issues with this and we do a lot of commercial work , some is annual contract,, some is just a rolling agreement . I think in your situation I would be arranging a face to face meeting with who ever you deal with and set your stall out that this is unacceptable that you have booked there job in and put off other clients to do it have staff to organise and pay and last muinit cancellations are not acceptable.
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
They keep cancelling at the last minute? Any reason for this? Are you happy being messed around and losing money? Mess them around and tell them you'll be there and Friday and don't bother turning up. See how they like it! Stick to residential 👍
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1. Always have T and C's
2. Be honest and tell them this is not ideal
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1. Always have T and C's
2. Be honest and tell them this is not ideal
Terms and conditions are good to have but try enforcing them with big companies they will just ignore them unless you are a multi million pound company that can afford to go to court costing tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds to fight your case
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Shame really commercial used to be fantastic you could start literally as early as you wanted and these days with CCTV they’d know you’ve been,once the banks and other big brands switched to National cleaning companies that went in so cheap they were making a loss it killed it overnight for a lot of people.
Spoke to a bloke doing a high street bookmakers in the days after it started to go stupid he was cleaning 4 bookmakers in a morning covering about 100 miles for 6-7 quid a pop 🤣🤣🤣,if there’s money in commercial now it’s nothing at all to what it was years ago,the talk about being able to afford to employ in those day didn’t really exist great money before the sun came up then the Eurostar got busier and the jobs went 😢
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Shame really commercial used to be fantastic you could start literally as early as you wanted and these days with CCTV they’d know you’ve been,once the banks and other big brands switched to National cleaning companies that went in so cheap they were making a loss it killed it overnight for a lot of people.
Spoke to a bloke doing a high street bookmakers in the days after it started to go stupid he was cleaning 4 bookmakers in a morning covering about 100 miles for 6-7 quid a pop 🤣🤣🤣,if there’s money in commercial now it’s nothing at all to what it was years ago,the talk about being able to afford to employ in those day didn’t really exist great money before the sun came up then the Eurostar got busier and the jobs went 😢
There is a big difference between high street retailers and good commercial work high street stuff is very poorly paid , decent commercial pays a premium
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You’re in a bubble m8 like I am with my domestics some people wouldn’t believe you’re prices,let’s look at it out of our bubbles and get in the real world you ain’t going out most days full of commercial and cleaning car showrooms and offices for serious money anymore,yeah the jobs are there but a lot depends on who they have in the business overlooking costs for these services.
Some people were earning 100s and 100s before breakfast every week it was never ending these days people are cleaning these 4-500 quid jobs for 130-180 quid 20 years on.
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I’d have people say to me you’re mad m8 you want
to get commercial jobs I even had a WCs wife say to me once commercial is where the money is my husband does it commercial only he’s finished by 10 🤣🤣,now he’s just finished.
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You’re in a bubble m8 like I am with my domestics some people wouldn’t believe you’re prices,let’s look at it out of our bubbles and get in the real world you ain’t going out most days full of commercial and cleaning car showrooms and offices for serious money anymore,yeah the jobs are there but a lot depends on who they have in the business overlooking costs for these services.
Some people were earning 100s and 100s before breakfast every week it was never ending these days people are cleaning these 4-500 quid jobs for 130-180 quid 20 years on.
Just because you might not be doing it doesn’t mean it cannot be done we have commercial contracts that are very lucrative and pay well into 4 figures per day starting 8:30 until 15:00 , we aren’t doing that 5 days a week but do have at least 10 days every month like it , been doing it for 18 plus years , once you get in with the right firms the work comes to you you don’t need to go looking for it .
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I agree with you I’m not saying you’re lying I’m saying that on the whole companies won’t pay 1990s prices these days,if a company has to get quotes they’ll see the difference in prices obviously.
One example I know a guy that cleaned BMW-MINI dealership he did it for years took him forever to clean it as he was meticulous when cleaning the insides, he eventually went over to the pole and got outsides done quicker but even then he was working at a snails pace.
He was getting way over the odds for cleaning it and when the staff and management got changed he was gone and the new price was a 1/3rd reduced by 1 clean also over a 6 weekly period,he used to look after them like freshly laid eggs 🥚 I told him for years wasting you’re time m8.
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I agree with you I’m not saying you’re lying I’m saying that on the whole companies won’t pay 1990s prices these days,if a company has to get quotes they’ll see the difference in prices obviously.
One example I know a guy that cleaned BMW-MINI dealership he did it for years took him forever to clean it as he was meticulous when cleaning the insides, he eventually went over to the pole and got outsides done quicker but even then he was working at a snails pace.
He was getting way over the odds for cleaning it and when the staff and management got changed he was gone and the new price was a 1/3rd reduced by 1 clean also over a 6 weekly period,he used to look after them like freshly laid eggs 🥚 I told him for years wasting you’re time m8.
There is no money in doing car dealer we stoped doing them 15 years ago , we do a lot of high end hotels, semi retirement blocks of flats for a large well known company all over the country . Along with a few NHS jobs and industrial buildings .
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Yeah as you say no money in them Car dealers and similar stuff these days but i know years ago they were top money and very early mornings which was lovely,I think you should be getting 40-50 notes for a semi but you shouldn’t really 🤣🤣🤣🤣.
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I agree with you I’m not saying you’re lying I’m saying that on the whole companies won’t pay 1990s prices these days,if a company has to get quotes they’ll see the difference in prices obviously.
One example I know a guy that cleaned BMW-MINI dealership he did it for years took him forever to clean it as he was meticulous when cleaning the insides, he eventually went over to the pole and got outsides done quicker but even then he was working at a snails pace.
He was getting way over the odds for cleaning it and when the staff and management got changed he was gone and the new price was a 1/3rd reduced by 1 clean also over a 6 weekly period,he used to look after them like freshly laid eggs 🥚 I told him for years wasting you’re time m8.
He was “cleaning it for years” and charging “way over the odds” and you told him “for years he’s wasting his time”? ???
You contradict yourself in every post Nigel, you make no sense.
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Read what I have said you fool I know he has and know he wasn’t lying stop jumping on the slightest thing to make people look small and wrong,in general commercial work is finished as far as ridiculous prices go certain people are in a price bubble I’m one of them.
500 notes to clean a commercial building just after sunrise is gone then on to the next one then a few houses + Vat then home,seen it being done and watched the tears fall after the fan was blocked with 💩 down the line.
It’s like something you’d read someone to get em off to sleep these days.
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Read what I have said you fool I know he has and know he wasn’t lying stop jumping on the slightest thing to make people look small and wrong,in general commercial work is finished as far as ridiculous prices go certain people are in a price bubble I’m one of them.
500 notes to clean a commercial building just after sunrise is gone then on to the next one then a few houses + Vat then home,seen it being done and watched the tears fall after the fan was blocked with 💩 down the line.
It’s like something you’d read someone to get em off to sleep these days.
Be honest, you’d had a drink last night hadn’t you?
You went off into turbo bullpoo mode, even for you ;D
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I’d have people say to me you’re mad m8
Thats mostly on here i think ;D
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Read what I have said you fool I know he has and know he wasn’t lying stop jumping on the slightest thing to make people look small and wrong,in general commercial work is finished as far as ridiculous prices go certain people are in a price bubble I’m one of them.
500 notes to clean a commercial building just after sunrise is gone then on to the next one then a few houses + Vat then home,seen it being done and watched the tears fall after the fan was blocked with 💩 down the line.
It’s like something you’d read someone to get em off to sleep these days.
You do that quite often Nigel. Mainly to yourself.
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
I would treat each account on its own merit. Occasionally an unforeseen cancellation is because the client has no option. If it has happened too much I would ask to speak with my main contact and explain that it is difficult to take a last minute cancellation as I have prepared staff, moved other work to accommodate etc.
I am sure that your customer would understand.
If it comes back that THEY are being messed about then I would try to be a more accommodating myself.
Without knowing why they cancel I am not sure how to proceed.
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
I would treat each account on its own merit. Occasionally an unforeseen cancellation is because the client has no option. If it has happened too much I would ask to speak with my main contact and explain that it is difficult to take a last minute cancellation as I have prepared staff, moved other work to accommodate etc.
I am sure that your customer would understand.
If it comes back that THEY are being messed about then I would try to be a more accommodating myself.
Without knowing why they cancel I am not sure how to proceed.
yes i think this is the way to manage it.
on one hand this has happened a few times this year, but i need to look after my relationship with the contact.
its gauling when they cancel so close to a clean, but i think there is a lot of upheaval at their workplace and my contact is just as wrong footed by it as me (though he's not oput of pocket of course)
i'll arrange a meeting with him in a couple of weeks
R
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Why are you so keen to look after you’re contact if he’s cancelling etc.
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
But you leave a note with your next clean date as you said in another thread. How do you tell them that you are no longer coming on the set date? Seems like you're prioritising this commercial job over your bread and butter work.
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I agree with you I’m not saying you’re lying I’m saying that on the whole companies won’t pay 1990s prices these days,if a company has to get quotes they’ll see the difference in prices obviously.
One example I know a guy that cleaned BMW-MINI dealership he did it for years took him forever to clean it as he was meticulous when cleaning the insides, he eventually went over to the pole and got outsides done quicker but even then he was working at a snails pace.
He was getting way over the odds for cleaning it and when the staff and management got changed he was gone and the new price was a 1/3rd reduced by 1 clean also over a 6 weekly period,he used to look after them like freshly laid eggs 🥚 I told him for years wasting you’re time m8.
I think there are a few comments by window cleaners who don't know any thing about commercial work. Stick to what you know.
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Yeah I will be sticking to what I know over the next 2 years that way I know I’ll still have work for us to do.
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As for sticking to what you know cleaning windows is cleaning windows whether it be hospitals car showrooms etc,abseiling or similar then you’d have a point.
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Have a day off Nigel. You’re embarrassing yourself now.
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Here he is again 🤣🤣
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Yeah I will be sticking to what I know over the next 2 years that way I know I’ll still have work for us to do.
Us?
Is this you and the bloke down the pub?
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
But you leave a note with your next clean date as you said in another thread. How do you tell them that you are no longer coming on the set date? Seems like you're prioritising this commercial job over your bread and butter work.
we leave a next clean date, but sometimes they do need moving.. bank holidays, sickness, annual leave, van issues etc etc
we dont like to move things about but we do if needs be.
this commercial client is bringing an extra £10,000 profit to me this year so its important to get the money while i can.
but yes, its a balancing act how far i can deal with it when they swap things about
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Just a thought but if you are running a tight ship in terms of leaving next clean dates and being military about it wouldnt you be better concentrating on growing your regular domestic work rather than having to change your entire customers clean dates for a commercial job that may or may not come off ?
Of course if you didnt leave next clean dates you may be more flexible to fit in ad hoc work ?
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
But you leave a note with your next clean date as you said in another thread. How do you tell them that you are no longer coming on the set date? Seems like you're prioritising this commercial job over your bread and butter work.
we leave a next clean date, but sometimes they do need moving.. bank holidays, sickness, annual leave, van issues etc etc
we dont like to move things about but we do if needs be.
this commercial client is bringing an extra £10,000 profit to me this year so its important to get the money while i can.
but yes, its a balancing act how far i can deal with it when they swap things about
Is it 10 k profit or 10 k turnover from the job ?
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my thoughts as well
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I'm interested to get opinions and advice from people who deal with bigger commercial clients.
So i have a comercial client who we have been cleaning for over 7 years. Its a large local business with multiple sites in our area.
We don't have a contract with them so we just work adhoc for them, as and when required and invoice them
This last year thought they have a number of times booked large amounts of work and then cancelled it at the last moment.
A couple of weeks back they booked 8 days full of work. and then cancelled it all the day before it was due to start.
they have now got in touch and want work completed this week for an open day they have on saturday.
how would you handle this? my issue is i have no terms of cancellation for commercial work. they issue PO's but then cancel them.
before this year we had none of these issues whatsoever. they have always tended to book in work with little notice, but we have been flexible and moved jobs around to fit them in, and we earn good money for them. its the last minute cancelling thats the issue here
the issue is i suppose i cant be moving all work off friday to do this job, if they are going to cancel it and then we have a work free day
But you leave a note with your next clean date as you said in another thread. How do you tell them that you are no longer coming on the set date? Seems like you're prioritising this commercial job over your bread and butter work.
we leave a next clean date, but sometimes they do need moving.. bank holidays, sickness, annual leave, van issues etc etc
we dont like to move things about but we do if needs be.
this commercial client is bringing an extra £10,000 profit to me this year so its important to get the money while i can.
but yes, its a balancing act how far i can deal with it when they swap things about
Is it 10 k profit or 10 k turnover from the job ?
profit from the customer this year
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I think this is a difficult situation.
A meeting with your client would be good, but I wouldn't hold out much hope of it changing anything.
I'm sure your client has the best intentions but probably his hands are tied and this situation will no doubt happen again.
I think the ball is in your court.
Are you prepared to put up with the hassle, or not? Is it worth the financial reward.
10K profit on good commercial work; I can see how you want to make this work for you.
If it were me, I would continue with the client and have a plan A if the work goes ahead and a plan B if the work does not go ahead. Review it in 9 months time and see if it's worth the hassle.
Ironically, I would actually push for more work.
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I think this is a difficult situation.
A meeting with your client would be good, but I wouldn't hold out much hope of it changing anything.
I'm sure your client has the best intentions but probably his hands are tied and this situation will no doubt happen again.
I think the ball is in your court.
Are you prepared to put up with the hassle, or not? Is it worth the financial reward.
10K profit on good commercial work; I can see how you want to make this work for you.
If it were me, I would continue with the client and have a plan A if the work goes ahead and a plan B if the work does not go ahead. Review it in 9 months time and see if it's worth the hassle.
Ironically, I would actually push for more work.
yes i think this is the reality of it.
i think without a contract in place i just have to decide if this ad hoc working basis is worth the hassle, and where to draw the line really.
so long as i can do it, without harming my main business (domestic) i suppose i just get th cash while i can