Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Stoots on October 07, 2022, 08:09:24 am
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Growth.
This is just a thought that came to me whilst drinking my morning coffee....
So being someone that has considered growing my business on numerous occasions, ive employed, looked at franchising, ive been there and done it in terms of trying to grow but ultimately have always gone to back to being on my own for various reasons. Mainly because ive always been frustrated by employees having been let down a lot.
But another factor in always going back to being solo is the cost of growth, VAT, marketting and staff cost etc, often when the maths is done i realise i would need at least 5 vans out full time to take home what i do now solo and when you factor in the extra stress and responsibility its hard for me to justify, i mean why would you do that to yourself to essentially take home the same money. Theres the freedom argument, if i had 5 vans out i would be free rather than having to do the work, but having had one van out full time i realised although i may be physically free i wasnt mentally, my stress was higher having to fix issues with the van and complaints etc, the mental stress was worse than the physical work to me.
Anyway, im waffling to get to the point.
One thing i havent ever really considered is selling the business, ive never looked at it as building an asset to sell and always looked at it as a way to generate income. But if you did have 10 van outs turning over say 50k a month that could be sold for 300k plus the other assets such as vans , equipment etc. Enough to pay off a mortgage and sock a bit away, you could even sell the lot and go back solo.
So i guess all im asking is do those with multiple vans have an end game ? have you thought about where this will all end up and if you are solo have you not had any thoughts of growth with maybe an end game of selling the lot as a retirement fund.
I think a lot ;D
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I’ve been thinking about this too. Looking at splitting the windows from the rest of the work and having two guys out cleaning to stay under the vat. Then build the other side of the business up to sell. They are very different businesses.
Plans tend to change though.
It’s probably good to have some sort of target, be it retirement etc.
Cleaning windows certainly gives you time to think!😄
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I love threads like this. Im almost tempted to sell.
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I've had 4 guys 2 vans for a while and this week I decided to F it all off and gone down to 2 guys 1 van and keep things simple and do other things with my life.
I will still earn £60k. I normally charge £350 - £400 + VAT per day per person. But we only do one offs and hardly any windows tbh.
It can be done.
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Has crossed my mind from time to time - even know of chap who runs a o her company interested
But….
How do you value it ?
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
When you put it like that i dont know.
Maybe sell for a few million and retire abroad somewhere whilst never having to think about work again.
But then theres the conudrum of being bored, you cant win really.
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Why would someone pay a few million do you know how long it would take to get back that few million that’s a ridiculous figure to put on it in fact I would stick my neck on the line and say you’d never get it back,if I was going to invest a few million quid I wouldn’t be considering a domestic window cleaning business lol.
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
Lee I have missed your topics on here, it's about time you had some input into CIU
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
And you wonder why you get abuse on here - 🤔
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I never left. I just dont post anymore.
I found this thread interesting as I get asked often if I would sell. I wouldnt for the reasons I stated.
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I dont wonder why at all.
Thats the truth and I worked very hard for nearly 20 years to achieve that. If people here want to abuse me for that I think that says more about them than it does me.
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I don't doubt you work hard - and with the right application you should be inspiring people....
Darran
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Exactly my point.
Fact is if you can earn like that and work less than part time why sell? I encourage people to push through the hard bits in order to come out the other side. It can be done as I have proven.
Right Im off before the haters arrive after work. Maybe I will post again down the line.
Good luck everyone.
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Why would someone pay a few million do you know how long it would take to get back that few million that’s a ridiculous figure to put on it in fact I would stick my neck on the line and say you’d never get it back,if I was going to invest a few million quid I wouldn’t be considering a domestic window cleaning business lol.
A ridiculous figure to put on what ?
I wasn't saying for anything in particular, I mean if you built a window cleaning business that's worth a few million.
What's worth the money would hopefully be decided by someone who has more business acumen than you or I.
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Growth.
This is just a thought that came to me whilst drinking my morning coffee....
So being someone that has considered growing my business on numerous occasions, ive employed, looked at franchising, ive been there and done it in terms of trying to grow but ultimately have always gone to back to being on my own for various reasons. Mainly because ive always been frustrated by employees having been let down a lot.
But another factor in always going back to being solo is the cost of growth, VAT, marketting and staff cost etc, often when the maths is done i realise i would need at least 5 vans out full time to take home what i do now solo and when you factor in the extra stress and responsibility its hard for me to justify, i mean why would you do that to yourself to essentially take home the same money. Theres the freedom argument, if i had 5 vans out i would be free rather than having to do the work, but having had one van out full time i realised although i may be physically free i wasnt mentally, my stress was higher having to fix issues with the van and complaints etc, the mental stress was worse than the physical work to me.
Anyway, im waffling to get to the point.
One thing i havent ever really considered is selling the business, ive never looked at it as building an asset to sell and always looked at it as a way to generate income. But if you did have 10 van outs turning over say 50k a month that could be sold for 300k plus the other assets such as vans , equipment etc. Enough to pay off a mortgage and sock a bit away, you could even sell the lot and go back solo.
So i guess all im asking is do those with multiple vans have an end game ? have you thought about where this will all end up and if you are solo have you not had any thoughts of growth with maybe an end game of selling the lot as a retirement fund.
I think a lot ;D
Strange really i had this exact same thought a few months ago.
We have 2 vans on the road, but the thought of upping to say 5+ vans just fills me with dread knowing that until we hit 5 vans or more, our profit wont actually go up, as all our overheads will increase drastically on those next set of vans. This alone put me off doing it, i just dont need the stress. Ive come to realise that work/life/stress balance is no joke and needs to be taken serious.
Anyway i had also missed out the thought that not only are you building the business which comes with the added turnover and added expenses and stresses, but you are infact building an asset. Just think of it like this. For every van that you add onto the road and fill that van up, effectively if further down the line you sold the business or parts of the business that 1 van alone and its turnover could easily add 40k if it was sold. So maybe it's not such a bad idea after all to say build to 5 vans on the road. You may not earn any more income, but as you say, if at any point you need to sell the business, you could get 200k+ and then just retire or wait a year then go back to 1 van, and rinse and repeat potentially. Or go into another industry if you fancy a change.
Just another added element to consider when growing the business......
Im still staying at 2 vans though!! ;D ;D
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
When you put it like that i dont know.
Maybe sell for a few million and retire abroad somewhere whilst never having to think about work again.
But then theres the conudrum of being bored, you cant win really.
my brother sold his business a few years ago.... I wont say the amount but it was just over 15 million.
he then moved to ireland . hes only 60 years old
he has now started another business . in reality he never has to work again, however he likes to keep active , and enjoys working.
he does spend a lot of time enjoying his hobbies though.
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Why would someone pay a few million do you know how long it would take to get back that few million that’s a ridiculous figure to put on it in fact I would stick my neck on the line and say you’d never get it back,if I was going to invest a few million quid I wouldn’t be considering a domestic window cleaning business lol.
A ridiculous figure to out on what ?
I wasn't saying for anything in particular, I mean if you built a window cleaning business that's worth a few million.
What's worth the money would hopefully be decided by someone who has more business acumen than you or I.
I stay as a small fish in a small pond and that’s the way I like it but I have people very close that employ 1000s and turnover a sickening amount lol,I won’t be learning anything about business from anyone on here anytime soon it’s literally an every other Sunday roast for that 😂 but I ain’t interested.
I myself am no Duncan Bannatyne but let me just say I won’t be seeing a domestic window cleaning business being purchased for a few million quid lol.
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You very rarely if ever hear or know any one selling or has sold a high turnover multi van domestic business.
I would imagine it would be quite hard to sell and quite hard to finance your target buyer would probably be hard to find.
You hear more of people selling commercial businesses.
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
When you put it like that i dont know.
Maybe sell for a few million and retire abroad somewhere whilst never having to think about work again.
But then theres the conudrum of being bored, you cant win really.
my brother sold his business a few years ago.... I wont say the amount but it was just over 15 million.
he then moved to ireland . hes only 60 years old
he has now started another business . in reality he never has to work again, however he likes to keep active , and enjoys working.
he does spend a lot of time enjoying his hobbies though.
I won't say the amount but it was just over 15 million. Could you give us a clue how much he sold it for? ;D
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You very rarely if ever hear or know any one selling or has sold a high turnover multi van domestic business.
I would imagine it would be quite hard to sell and quite hard to finance your target buyer would probably be hard to find.
You hear more of people selling commercial businesses.
Anyone that has done this well done and fair play to you but as said it would be very hard to sell for 100s of 1000s it would be considered quiet a gamble,on the other hand selling a business that has 100s and 100s of local council contracts is a completely different matter that could be turning over well in excess of 50 million a year that’s the kind of business someone would pay millions for not a window cleaning round 😂.
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
When you put it like that i dont know.
Maybe sell for a few million and retire abroad somewhere whilst never having to think about work again.
But then theres the conudrum of being bored, you cant win really.
my brother sold his business a few years ago.... I wont say the amount but it was just over 15 million.
he then moved to ireland . hes only 60 years old
he has now started another business . in reality he never has to work again, however he likes to keep active , and enjoys working.
he does spend a lot of time enjoying his hobbies though.
I won't say the amount but it was just over 15 million. Could you give us a clue how much he sold it for? ;D
I see your point. as I typed I though it was a silly statement.... over 16 million , but under 17 ;D
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
When you put it like that i dont know.
Maybe sell for a few million and retire abroad somewhere whilst never having to think about work again.
But then theres the conudrum of being bored, you cant win really.
my brother sold his business a few years ago.... I wont say the amount but it was just over 15 million.
he then moved to ireland . hes only 60 years old
he has now started another business . in reality he never has to work again, however he likes to keep active , and enjoys working.
he does spend a lot of time enjoying his hobbies though.
I won't say the amount but it was just over 15 million. Could you give us a clue how much he sold it for? ;D
I see your point. as I typed I though it was a silly statement.... over 16 million , but under 17 ;D
I actually laughed out loud then 😂
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As Lee said earlier makes much more sense to never sell it he knows it’s worth so much more to him as an income than it would be having some fool come along and making him a stupid offer,would most people sell their little business on here for 100-150k you can soon spend that it won’t generate much of an income or not as much as having someone working it month in month out and you taking some cream for doing very little.
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As Lee said earlier makes much more sense to never sell it he knows it’s worth so much more to him as an income than it would be having some fool come along and making him a stupid offer,would most people sell their little business on here for 100-150k you can soon spend that it won’t generate much of an income or not as much as having someone working it month in month out and you taking some cream for doing very little.
its all subjective .... everyone is different ..... some people arent driven by money, and can be happy living a simple life just being content and comfortable . I would say that someone like this could sell for 150k and live a nice life and be happy.
I am like this . I am not materialistic and enjoy things that are free , such as a nice view on a walk.
fancy cars and holidays in the sun dont interest me at all.
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In reality I would never sell. I work less than part time and earn in the top 0.5% of the UK. Cant imagine why I would ever give that up.
Are you going to the Maldives?
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I’ve just messaged Lee he said he’s not going to the same place as Daz apparently that’s the place that the staff that work at the proper resorts stay on days off 🤣🤣🤣🤣👌,Maldives my 👁 you wanna proper holiday there you’re talking a lot of money.
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I don't think its about how many vans you have its about how much profit you make, you could have 20 vans all doing crap work
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Yeah but if was all complete crap and you weren’t making anything you wouldn’t get or stay there would you,I don’t know the guy but I would say he’s at a very good point in his business earning well over 6 figures.
What do you do take a one off payment of 50-100k or earn very well each month with ease for doing very little,I know what I’d do.
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Yeah but if was all complete crap and you weren’t making anything you wouldn’t get or stay there would you,I don’t know the guy but I would say he’s at a very good point in his business earning well over 6 figures.
What do you do take a one off payment of 50-100k or earn very well each month with ease for doing very little,I know what I’d do.
🙄
If his wage was six figures you wouldn’t be selling for 50k would you - more like 500k upwards
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Of course it was just an example.
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Of course it was just an example.
As usual - ill informed and cr@p
Darran
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This topic reminds me of the tale:
One day a fisherman was lying on a beautiful beach, with his fishing pole propped up in the sand and his solitary line cast out into the sparkling blue surf. He was enjoying the warmth of the afternoon sun and the prospect of catching a fish.
About that time, a businessman came walking down the beach trying to relieve some of the stress of his workday. He noticed the fisherman sitting on the beach and decided to find out why this fisherman was fishing instead of working harder to make a living for himself and his family. “You aren’t going to catch many fish that way,” said the businessman. “You should be working rather than lying on the beach!”
The fisherman looked up at the businessman, smiled and replied, “And what will my reward be?”
“Well, you can get bigger nets and catch more fish!” was the businessman’s answer.
“And then what will my reward be?” asked the fisherman, still smiling.
The businessman replied, “You will make money and you’ll be able to buy a boat, which will then result in larger catches of fish!”
“And then what will my reward be?” asked the fisherman again.
The businessman was beginning to get a little irritated with the fisherman’s questions. “You can buy a bigger boat, and hire some people to work for you!” he said.
“And then what will my reward be?” repeated the fisherman.
The businessman was getting angry. “Don’t you understand? You can build up a fleet of fishing boats, sail all over the world, and let all your employees catch fish for you!”
Once again the fisherman asked, “And then what will my reward be?”
The businessman was red with rage and shouted at the fisherman, “Don’t you understand that you can become so rich that you will never have to work for your living again! You can spend all the rest of your days sitting on this beach, looking at the sunset. You won’t have a care in the world!”
The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, “And what do you think I’m doing right now?”
Story: Heinrich Boll
“Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels.” –Bertolt Brecht
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To sell something as big as Lees for big money would be difficult but not impossible. If the books are showing many years trading and all the guys/girls are long term employees then in theory it could be sold as a very good going concern.
Trying to find someone with that kind of money to hand who knows the game would be the difficult bit. Very limited market.
Easy solution is to break it all up and sell it in chunks. Always buyers for good quality well established work.
Simples!!
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I would say some of the offers would be insulting for what’s gone in to it and what it reaps,for the amount someone would probably offer the never ending pension it would give wouldn’t make it attractive to sell,just my opinion.
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To sell it as a whole you’re probably right.
In chunks is the way forward. Still end up with a very hefty amount but would it be what it’s actually worth after years of grafting probably not. But still a nice amount and you will still have had many years of ‘wages’ from it don’t forget.
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What carve up all those rounds and get tyre kickers round trying to pay 10-15k for 1 round lol again it would be a waste of time,given the choice of a big lump some I’d take that lovely 6 figure pension 👌.
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Float the company...........
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So any rounds that are ever sold only get tyre kickers round to look who only pay low a price?
If the rounds are good solid compact established rounds then they will fetch what they’re worth which will be between 5-10 times a monthly clean. That’s what rounds go for and have always gone for. I sold my first one 34 years ago and it’s not changed as of when I sold my last one a few months ago. And remember you’ve still had years of wages out of them as well. If you’ve split it up into lots of chunks then the overall figure would be more than if someone offered you a lump sum for the whole lot surely? But it all depends on the kind of work, how established it is and where it is etc.
Like always that’s just my opinion and you have your opinion.
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I rented a unit next to a guy who reconditioned gearboxes. That's all he did, gearboxes! People (garages and main dealers) would send their cars to him, he would take out the gearbox, strip it, recondition it, refit it and hey presto! (He said about £2K per gearbox). His daughter worked with him too, he always seem contented, calm and happy.
On one occasion he told me, he had sold his business a few years ago and retired to Spain. He bought a big house and a large plot of land because his wife had horses. He said that one day he was sitting on his ride on lawn mower bored to tears when he found out that someone in his village had a problem with their gearbox. He fixed it for them (I'm guessing for hardly any money) and that was it. He's now back in the UK and built a business again.
I guess some people retire in different ways!
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The challenge selling your business is that it's worth a great deal more to you because you know and understand the business than it is to an outsider.
You know what's happening so when you price the business you come up with a sum. The buyer, on the other hand, has no real idea of what's going on within the business so they have to take the risk they are taking into account. Thus their price tends to be much lower.
It's not dissimilar to selling a good but old car. You know it's reliable. The buyer doesn't. Hence you overvalue it and the buyer undervalues it.
Vin
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Nice post Vin,
However I think there is a big difference between say Dazmond (for example) selling a round and the likes of Lee Pryor selling a more complex window cleaning buisness
Lee will have a presence in the local area - vans seen all the time - much more equipment will be thrown into the mix - a trackable, traceable record.
While I'm sure you won't find a long que of buyers - there will be companies that would buy it to add to a portfolio or to integrate into their own business - If Lee is say 95% domestic - that again maybe trickier to sell on - but if he has a large proportion or commercial that would be attractive to others/bigger players
Someone like Lee wouldn't sell it piecemeal - your undervaluing the thing as a whole
Darran