Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mike1986 on August 15, 2022, 10:13:41 am
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Can’t seem to find a categorical answer for this. Are business exempt? They just specifically mentioned there would be a ban on cleaning windows on tv ???
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Yes.
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Farmers still watering fields
premier sides still watering their pitches
I would say so ( apart from Daz who uses a hose pipe ;D
Darran
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Yes, commercial use is exempt.
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Someone needs to pin a message at the top of the page saying ‘hose pipe bans do not include window cleaners’
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"Hosepipe bans" don't exist anymore, they were replaced by Temporary Use Bans (TUBs)
And they CAN include commercial use, depending on what the water company decides.
But, this is a critical point, the actual law states that in a Temporary Use Ban, there is a statutory exemption for Health and Safety use. Section 12 of the The Water Use (Temporary Bans) Order 2010 says : (note section 12(2) )
12.—(1) The category of use in section 76(2)(i) of the Act applies only to the cleaning of the external walls or windows of domestic premises.
(2) Using a hosepipe to clean the walls or windows of domestic premises for health or safety reasons is not to be treated as falling within the category of use in that section.
(3) In that section, “domestic premises” means—
(a)a building used principally as a dwelling or dwellings;
(b)a garage, shed, outbuilding or other building or structure used or enjoyed in connection with a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a); or
(c)a wall or other means of enclosure within the curtilage of a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a).
[Read it here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2231/article/12 ]
If you're wondering if this H&S exemption applies to us, then look at this
UKWI CODE OF PRACTICE AND GUIDANCE FOR WATER COMPANIES ON WATER USE RESTRICTIONS – 2013
(All UK water companies are signatories to this, as shown on pages 7 & 8 )
Page 38 of this document states:
“- The use of water fed poles for window cleaning at height is permitted under the H&S statutory exemption.
- The restrictions do not apply where the cleaning apparatus is not connected to the mains supply”
[Read the full thing here : https://www.water.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/managing-through-drought-code-of-practice-min-ilovepdf-compressed.pdf ]
Apparently, in the 2011-2012 drought, some of the water companies told window cleaners to go back to using ladders. Window cleaners pointed out to them that this would breach the Work at Height regulations, as a safer alternative could be used. The result was that, in drafting the new Tempoary Use Bans, they decided that protecting people from the serious risk of falls from height trumped saving the tiny amount of water (relatively speaking) that window cleaners use.
A good result.
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"Hosepipe bans" don't exist anymore, they were replaced by Temporary Use Bans (TUBs)
And they CAN include commercial use, depending on what the water company decides.
But, this is a critical point, the actual law states that in a Temporary Use Ban, there is a statutory exemption for Health and Safety use. Section 12 of the The Water Use (Temporary Bans) Order 2010 says : (note section 12(2) )
12.—(1) The category of use in section 76(2)(i) of the Act applies only to the cleaning of the external walls or windows of domestic premises.
(2) Using a hosepipe to clean the walls or windows of domestic premises for health or safety reasons is not to be treated as falling within the category of use in that section.
(3) In that section, “domestic premises” means—
(a)a building used principally as a dwelling or dwellings;
(b)a garage, shed, outbuilding or other building or structure used or enjoyed in connection with a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a); or
(c)a wall or other means of enclosure within the curtilage of a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a).
[Read it here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2231/article/12 ]
If you're wondering if this H&S exemption applies to us, then look at this
UKWI CODE OF PRACTICE AND GUIDANCE FOR WATER COMPANIES ON WATER USE RESTRICTIONS – 2013
(All UK water companies are signatories to this, as shown on pages 7 & 8 )
Page 38 of this document states:
“- The use of water fed poles for window cleaning at height is permitted under the H&S statutory exemption.
- The restrictions do not apply where the cleaning apparatus is not connected to the mains supply”
[Read the full thing here : https://www.water.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/managing-through-drought-code-of-practice-min-ilovepdf-compressed.pdf ]
Apparently, in the 2011-2012 drought, some of the water companies told window cleaners to go back to using ladders. Window cleaners pointed out to them that this would breach the Work at Height regulations, as a safer alternative could be used. The result was that, in drafting the new Tempoary Use Bans, they decided that protecting people from the serious risk of falls from height trumped saving the tiny amount of water (relatively speaking) that window cleaners use.
A good result.
Thankyou Pete, now that's what you call a comprehensive and thorough reply.
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Yes.
No.
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A fine post Pete.
Many thanks for researching that info
Darran
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Yes.
No.
If you have any different information please post it; or is this because you are in Scotland?
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What sometimes happens is that a customer either ...
1. Feels embarrassed having their windows cleaned during a "hosepipe ban" and asks us not to clean their windows.
2. Sees the opportunity to save a few bob this month by using (1.) above as an excuse.
Over the years when a hosepipe ban has been close in my area (Bristol Water seems to manage way better than many areas of England because they tap into the water coming down the Severn as well as their own reservoirs) I have had a couple of customers query whether they should have their windows cleaned or not.
I always explain the above to them along with the fact that a proportion of my water is harvested off my roof and that I have over 3000 litres of storage. That seems to assuage any fears on their part. (I don't get into what proportion comes off of my roof and that 3000 litres would only last me just over a week and a half, mind! - it's the way I tell'em ... ;D)
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Yes.
No.
If you have any different information please post it; or is this because you are in Scotland?
I'm just being a cantankerous argumentative jock.
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Worse comes to the worse we might have to resort to cleaning downstairs windows traditionally.
Assuming as professional window cleaners that’s within you’re remit….
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What! ::)roll
You don't mean.....you do don't you.
You want us to get the sqeegy out.
Shock horror!! >:(
;D
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Worse comes to the worse we might have to resort to cleaning downstairs windows traditionally.
Assuming as professional window cleaners that’s within you’re remit….
I bet some window cleaners don't even own a mop and blade.
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I had a spare afternoon while I was waiting for my van to be serviced, so I had the time to properly look into it. I’m glad I did!
I should point out that I came across several interesting points when researching this, including the minutes of a few of the drought order hearings that where held in 2011 by the water companies. What a bunch of chumps they were! They basically wanted to send us back up ladders!
The British Window Cleaning Academy and in particular, Craig Mawlam were specifically mentioned as having put forth the argument regarding the work at height regulations.
It’s not completely clear if that had any impact at the time, but I also saw a few references to a detailed document by the BWCA which was sent to all of the water companies and the regulator following the end of the drought, with estimates of how much water window cleaners use and the relative impact that would have balanced against the danger to life of working at height.
I think this exemption, that basically has given us a statutory right to continue working in drought conditions, is likely thanks to that submission by the BWCA.
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There's a ban where I live and they say commercial use is exempt.
I guess it depends on how bad it gets.
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There's a ban where I live and they say commercial use is exempt.
I guess it depends on how bad it gets.
Yes that’s what they call a “discretionary” exemption, in other words, the water company is permitting it at their discretion and can remove it at any time.
Ours is statutory, so built in to the law.
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Been chucking it down with rain here for the past 24hrs >:(
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Been chucking it down with rain here for the past 24hrs >:(
It chucked it down here for 2.4 minutes last night. It keeps threatening to pour but just isn't happening.
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I had a spare afternoon while I was waiting for my van to be serviced, so I had the time to properly look into it. I’m glad I did!
I should point out that I came across several interesting points when researching this, including the minutes of a few of the drought order hearings that where held in 2011 by the water companies. What a bunch of chumps they were! They basically wanted to send us back up ladders!
The British Window Cleaning Academy and in particular, Craig Mawlam were specifically mentioned as having put forth the argument regarding the work at height regulations.
It’s not completely clear if that had any impact at the time, but I also saw a few references to a detailed document by the BWCA which was sent to all of the water companies and the regulator following the end of the drought, with estimates of how much water window cleaners use and the relative impact that would have balanced against the danger to life of working at height.
I think this exemption, that basically has given us a statutory right to continue working in drought conditions, is likely thanks to that submission by the BWCA.
I was at those drought order hearings. I don't think the water company expected such eloquent arguments from a bunch of window cleaners. It was a real learning curve for me watching Craig Mawlam perform. He led them down alleys and when they followed, he mugged them.
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WAHR 2005 is something to thank the EU for then.
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Why would we need to thank them. Do you thank the tax office because they collect tax revenues from you?
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Why would we need to thank them. Do you thank the tax office because they collect tax revenues from you?
You don't need to thank them but it's something to be thankful for.
I am thankful for the tax office for collecting tax revenues, yes. We need tax revenues.
I usually do their surveys as a thank you though.
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You said the WAHR is something to thank the EU for. You didn’t say we should be thankful. There’s a notable difference.
Tell me again why should we thank them for doing their job?
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You said the WAHR is something to thank the EU for. You didn’t say we should be thankful. There’s a notable difference.
Tell me again why should we thank them for doing their job?
What's the notable difference?
And why do I need to tell you again if I've already told you?
I never said 'we' either. You're jumping to conclusions.
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Griff and Slacky - please confine your EU good/not so good discussions in the AOB area of the forum.
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Griff and Slacky - please confine your EU good/not so good discussions in the AOB area of the forum.
My fault and will do✋.