Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: zesty on June 26, 2022, 02:30:01 pm
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???
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I expect someone thought it was racist , I don’t think it was but some are overly sensitive the muinit another nationality is mentioned
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Ask the moderators......bit of the old cancel culture probably.
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There was racist posts in the thread - as I said yesterday - you get customers like this in all sexes - creeds - colour - culture
There was no need to single out a specific race of people
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
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Probably best to not make any assumptions on any group of people…other than straight white males of course, then anything goes 👍
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There was racist posts in the thread - as I said yesterday - you get customers like this in all sexes - creeds - colour - culture
There was no need to single out a specific race of people
Well said.
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???
I expect someone thought it was racist , I don’t think it was but some are overly sensitive the muinit another nationality is mentioned
Another nationality?
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
Who said it had anything to do with what they look like Darren 🤷♂️😂
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Unfortunately for some it’s all about what some people look like ….
Darran
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How do we know Indians are Indians? They might not be 'another nationality'. They might just look Indian to some people. They might look like an awkward customer because of how they look, eh?
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Unfortunately for some it’s all about what some people look like ….
Darran
I don't that is true for one minute. It's the penny pinching mentality of a certain race that people find are a PITA.
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Unfortunately for some it’s all about what some people look like ….
Darran
I don't that is true for one minute. It's the penny pinching mentality of a certain race that people find are a PITA.
Give over - you prejudge people - I’ve no end of Anglo Saxon tight wads but I don’t come on here saying this white bloke tried to screw me down a fiver
A customer is a customer everyone’s money is the same to me and everybody gets the same service
Comments like “ I don’t clean them “ referring to the title is clearly predigest
Darran
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
I dont believe for a second every person of any race or group or whatever is a certain way.
But heres the thing, its a generalisation. If you have worked for say 10 muslims or 10 indians or 10 single white mothers on a council estate or whatever way you want to group people.....and every one off them experiences is a bad one then you are going to tar them all with the same brush and avoid that group of people.
I dont believe thats racist, nor do i believe they are "all" the same, just that a lot of them are and so rather than risk it why not just avoid them, afterall we can all pick and choose who we work for to a certain extent. I dont see it as any different to not wanting to clean a house with poor parking for example.
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Unfortunately for some it’s all about what some people look like ….
Darran
I don't that is true for one minute. It's the penny pinching mentality of a certain race that people find are a PITA.
Give over - you prejudge people - I’ve no end of Anglo Saxon tight wads but I don’t come on here saying this white bloke tried to screw me down a fiver
Usually referred to as a messer, you'll see plenty of posts about messers. Most window cleaners pick and choose who they work for as it leads to a less stressful life. You employ so you don't have to deal with the face to face stuff. 👍
A customer is a customer everyone’s money is the same to me and everybody gets the same service
Comments like “ I don’t clean them “ referring to the title is clearly predigest
Darran
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That’s correct a messer
A messer is a messer no need for Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi etc.. to be the all important reference
And I meet all the customers - how do you we price them…
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There was racist posts in the thread - as I said yesterday - you get customers like this in all sexes - creeds - colour - culture
There was no need to single out a specific race of people
I didn’t see the racist post.
Nothing I said I was racist, nor would it be.
It’s a culture thing, like I mentioned.
I do hate this ridiculous ‘woke’ world we now live in. It’s pathetic.
If there was a particular racist reply, it should have been deleted, whilst the rest of the thread remained.
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There was racist posts in the thread - as I said yesterday - you get customers like this in all sexes - creeds - colour - culture
There was no need to single out a specific race of people
I didn’t see the racist post.
Nothing I said I was racist, nor would it be.
It’s a culture thing, like I mentioned.
I do hate this ridiculous ‘woke’ world we now live in. It’s pathetic.
If there was a particular racist reply, it should have been deleted, whilst the rest of the thread remained.
A culture thing is the correct word. Single mom chavs culture is to sit outside their front door all day in their pyjamas lazing about smoking and claiming benefits. Now they're going to be ideal customers aren't they! Some people like to get upset on other people's behalf.
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Your not mentioning what ethnicity of these single mums are….
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Your not mentioning what ethnicity of these single mums are….
Aimed at me? Why would I? I'm talking about culture not skin colour.
It's you're BTW.
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Unfortunately for some it’s all about what some people look like ….
Darran
I don't that is true for one minute. It's the penny pinching mentality of a certain race that people find are a PITA.
So it's their race and not their nationality? And this race has a certain mentality?
Maybe our race has a mentality of intolerance towards a race that has a mentality of shrewd business sense.
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???
Because reports to moderators highlighted that the question posed at the start of the thread - and some of the subsequent posts in it - was prejudicial.
I agreed with those reports and removed the thread.
I don't believe it was an egregious breach of posting guidelines and so did not feel the need to warn anyone and hoped all would reflect on what they posted.
Now the question has been raised and so I have put this post as an answer.
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
I dont believe for a second every person of any race or group or whatever is a certain way.
But heres the thing, its a generalisation. If you have worked for say 10 muslims or 10 indians or 10 single white mothers on a council estate or whatever way you want to group people.....and every one off them experiences is a bad one then you are going to tar them all with the same brush and avoid that group of people.
I dont believe thats racist, nor do i believe they are "all" the same, just that a lot of them are and so rather than risk it why not just avoid them, afterall we can all pick and choose who we work for to a certain extent. I dont see it as any different to not wanting to clean a house with poor parking for example.
So you think tarring 'them' with the same brush is ok?
How do you decide who is 'them'? I'm betting that you're not Indian, Muslim or a single white mother.
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???
Because reports to moderators highlighted that the question posed at the start of the thread - and some of the subsequent posts in it - was prejudicial.
I agreed with those reports and removed the thread.
I don't believe it was an egregious breach of posting guidelines and so did not feel the need to warn anyone and hoped all would reflect on what they posted.
Now the question has been raised and so I have put this post as an answer.
There are posting guidelines? What are those and where can I find them?
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
I dont believe for a second every person of any race or group or whatever is a certain way.
But heres the thing, its a generalisation. If you have worked for say 10 muslims or 10 indians or 10 single white mothers on a council estate or whatever way you want to group people.....and every one off them experiences is a bad one then you are going to tar them all with the same brush and avoid that group of people.
I dont believe thats racist, nor do i believe they are "all" the same, just that a lot of them are and so rather than risk it why not just avoid them, afterall we can all pick and choose who we work for to a certain extent. I dont see it as any different to not wanting to clean a house with poor parking for example.
So you think tarring 'them' with the same brush is ok?
How do you decide who is 'them'? I'm betting that you're not Indian, Muslim or a single white mother.
Like I said if I had worked for a certain demographic and determined that I dont like working for that group for whatever reason then I would choose not to work for them again.
So yes in that context I do think it's ok to tar them all with the same brush.
I know that I'm making that decision for a business reason like not cleaning mid terraced houses or velux windows. That's not to say all mid terraced houses or velux windows are a pita just that in my experience generally speaking they are so I avoid.
It goes no deeper than that for me.
As for deciding who they are i use my eyes and ears.
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I think the person who chose to pull the plug on the post should at least explain why, and that they weren't just "virtue signalling" It would help for future contributors to be aware of the guidelines
Any censorship will take away the natural effervescent nature of this website. They might decide you are no longer permitted to call "customers" "custards" as it's offensive to cows
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Starting a post about about Indian customers isn’t right , people are stereotyping a certain colour of a person. Not all Indians are the same , they might not even be Indian - is everyone with brown skin Indian?
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
I dont believe for a second every person of any race or group or whatever is a certain way.
But heres the thing, its a generalisation. If you have worked for say 10 muslims or 10 indians or 10 single white mothers on a council estate or whatever way you want to group people.....and every one off them experiences is a bad one then you are going to tar them all with the same brush and avoid that group of people.
I dont believe thats racist, nor do i believe they are "all" the same, just that a lot of them are and so rather than risk it why not just avoid them, afterall we can all pick and choose who we work for to a certain extent. I dont see it as any different to not wanting to clean a house with poor parking for example.
So you think tarring 'them' with the same brush is ok?
How do you decide who is 'them'? I'm betting that you're not Indian, Muslim or a single white mother.
Like I said if I had worked for a certain demographic and determined that I dont like working for that group for whatever reason then I would choose not to work for them again.
So yes in that context I do think it's ok to tar them all with the same brush.
I know that I'm making that decision for a business reason like not cleaning mid terraced houses or velux windows. That's not to say all mid terraced houses or velux windows are a pita just that in my experience generally speaking they are so I avoid.
It goes no deeper than that for me.
As for deciding who they are i use my eyes and ears.
A certain demographic? Demographic?
And not working for someone because you don't like them or you don't like someone else of the same demographic is not a business decision.
It's prejudice.
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I think the person who chose to pull the plug on the post should at least explain why, and that they weren't just "virtue signalling" It would help for future contributors to be aware of the guidelines
Any censorship will take away the natural effervescent nature of this website. They might decide you are no longer permitted to call "customers" "custards" as it's offensive to cows
There's already censorship on the forum.
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Because if you have an opinion on a certain group of people it must be racist, whatever racist means.
I do wish when threads are removed they would at least be locked, archived and not deleted as you get a feeling you missed the fun but you can never know what it was ;D
And there is the problem mate - you say everybody of a certain race is this or that - that is the definition of racism
You need to look at peopleS individuals as of course we all are - some we get along with others we don’t and that nothing to do with what they look like
Darran
I dont believe for a second every person of any race or group or whatever is a certain way.
But heres the thing, its a generalisation. If you have worked for say 10 muslims or 10 indians or 10 single white mothers on a council estate or whatever way you want to group people.....and every one off them experiences is a bad one then you are going to tar them all with the same brush and avoid that group of people.
I dont believe thats racist, nor do i believe they are "all" the same, just that a lot of them are and so rather than risk it why not just avoid them, afterall we can all pick and choose who we work for to a certain extent. I dont see it as any different to not wanting to clean a house with poor parking for example.
So you think tarring 'them' with the same brush is ok?
How do you decide who is 'them'? I'm betting that you're not Indian, Muslim or a single white mother.
Like I said if I had worked for a certain demographic and determined that I dont like working for that group for whatever reason then I would choose not to work for them again.
So yes in that context I do think it's ok to tar them all with the same brush.
I know that I'm making that decision for a business reason like not cleaning mid terraced houses or velux windows. That's not to say all mid terraced houses or velux windows are a pita just that in my experience generally speaking they are so I avoid.
It goes no deeper than that for me.
As for deciding who they are i use my eyes and ears.
A certain demographic? Demographic?
And not working for someone because you don't like them or you don't like someone else of the same demographic is not a business decision.
It's prejudice.
The definition of prejudice is preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
I am basing it on both those things.
Listen, it's my business, my experiences and my opinion and I explained my reasons.
I couldn't care less if you agree or not .
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
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The point is we all make assumptions based on our experience of past dealings with certain groups of people, whether that be rich, poor, old, young etc. Anybody who says they don't is lying as its just human nature.
The fact that this particular observation was in reference to Indian customers just makes certain people instantly jump to it being a racist comment rather than a difference in culture. Its just certain people like to give themselves a pat on the back for being so woke.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1656318346_ELptDkMW4AEsxkh.jpg)
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I don’t know why people go on about it, The Scottish are the worst they look after every penny, Walker Crisp even made an advert based on the Scottish tendency to save money.
;) ;)
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I had a red indian that used to work for me . Had to let him go cos he was always ped up . Shame really cos he wasn’t scared of heights and could balance on narrow roofs clinging on to cills .
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I had a red indian that used to work for me . Had to let him go cos he was always ped up . Shame really cos he wasn’t scared of heights and could balance on narrow roofs clinging on to cills .
You know it’s an urban myth that American Indians were not afraid of heights, it was actually their culture of not showing fear that was mistaken for not fearing height :)
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Maybe it's the British culture of not standing for another culture questioning our price and checking the quality of our work.
A culture of insecurity that tells us not to work for 'them'.
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Or maybe it's a culture of having lived among them for most of your life and knowing what they are like.
And I'm not talking about Indians here but a more specific group of which a lot of Indians aren't part of.
So for me it's a religious thing......and there's plenty of people round here who just won't work for them due to bad experiences in the past.......bad experience for a window cleaner is a loss of £10 or £20........bad experience for, say, a builder can run to thousands as was the case for my brother..........and others had tried and failed before with him.
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So now it's Muslim con artists that are the problem? Is it part of their culture or religion to rip people off?
If so, wouldn't it be better to hide their cultural or religious beliefs to avoid arousing the suspicion of those that live among 'them'?
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
My experience, is lots of Indian customers are far more fussy than the average English, American, Greek, French etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
How that’s perceived as racist proves to me people are petrified of being ‘racist’.
It’s not racist, it’s a culture difference.
This nation has become so unbelievably woke, it’s embarrassing.
To be racist would be to blame the fussiness on their skin colour.
No one has suggested that.
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
My experience, is lots of Indian customers are far more fussy than the average English, American, Greek, French etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
How that’s perceived as racist proves to me people are petrified of being ‘racist’.
It’s not racist, it’s a culture difference.
This nation has become so unbelievably woke, it’s embarrassing.
To be racist would be to blame the fussiness on their skin colour.
No one has suggested that.
So they are just the Indian customers then? Not Pakistanis or Bangladeshi? Or is it just people with brown skin?? Iv got many Hindu & Sikh customers and they are brilliant, no dog poope , clean gardens , pay on time and are very friendly.
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
What are you identifying as these days Griff?
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It’s called profiling, we all do it in some way.
I hate everyone
Tony
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
What are you identifying as these days Griff?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1656344555_Untitled.jpg)
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I had a red indian that used to work for me . Had to let him go cos he was always ped up . Shame really cos he wasn’t scared of heights and could balance on narrow roofs clinging on to cills .
You know it’s an urban myth that American Indians were not afraid of heights, it was actually their culture of not showing fear that was mistaken for not fearing height :)
. It wasn’t a myth . They are in the history books for outnumbering the white people , % wise . for putting up the skyscrapers all across America . Then after a hard days balancing act , they enjoyed a bit of fire water.
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
No because ive already said i dont believe they are ALL the same. Of course they are not all the same its just that in my experience the ones i have worked for have all been what i determine a pita. Therefore id rather not keep sticking my hand in the bees nest looking for the one time it doesnt sting me, i dont need to i have plenty of other work that i want to do.
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Just out of interest, how are do we know these “types” are Indian?
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Or maybe it's a culture of having lived among them for most of your life and knowing what they are like.
And I'm not talking about Indians here but a more specific group of which a lot of Indians aren't part of.
So for me it's a religious thing......and there's plenty of people round here who just won't work for them due to bad experiences in the past.......bad experience for a window cleaner is a loss of £10 or £20........bad experience for, say, a builder can run to thousands as was the case for my brother..........and others had tried and failed before with him.
Exactly that.
Bet most would sing a different tune if they lived and worked in such cultural delights such as dewsbury and bradford. ;D and had actual experiences.
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That’s me .😁
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The best thing to do with Dewsbury and batley , is drop em both in the middle of bradford . Build a 50 foot high wall around it . Then fill it up with tigers and crocodiles .
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
What are you identifying as these days Griff?
Who's Griff?
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
What are you identifying as these days Griff?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1656344555_Untitled.jpg)
That's why I appreciated your bike ride to Amsterdam so much.
Well done, Matty lad.
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Or maybe it's a culture of having lived among them for most of your life and knowing what they are like.
And I'm not talking about Indians here but a more specific group of which a lot of Indians aren't part of.
So for me it's a religious thing......and there's plenty of people round here who just won't work for them due to bad experiences in the past.......bad experience for a window cleaner is a loss of £10 or £20........bad experience for, say, a builder can run to thousands as was the case for my brother..........and others had tried and failed before with him.
Exactly that.
Bet most would sing a different tune if they lived and worked in such cultural delights such as dewsbury and bradford. ;D and had actual experiences.
How do you know they are not British?
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The best thing to do with Dewsbury and batley , is drop em both in the middle of bradford . Build a 50 foot high wall around it . Then fill it up with tigers and crocodiles .
Who do you think will win?
The tigers or the crocodiles?
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
No because ive already said i dont believe they are ALL the same. Of course they are not all the same its just that in my experience the ones i have worked for have all been what i determine a pita. Therefore id rather not keep sticking my hand in the bees nest looking for the one time it doesnt sting me, i dont need to i have plenty of other work that i want to do.
Hive plenty of other work to do, too. You don't half do some moaning about the other work you want to do though ;D.
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@G Griffin, are you the same geezer who's always arguing with the ex squaddie on another section of the forum and always loses the argument?
Not getting many bites here are you!
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I do a fair bit in Batley and some in Dewsbury.....the rest in Cleckheaton, Morley, Mirfield and Ossett......you can tell the difference.
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@G Griffin, are you the same geezer who's always arguing with the ex squaddie on another section of the forum and always loses the argument?
Not getting many bites here are you!
No, that's a culturally different G Griffin, Bungle. She never wins an argument but I always do. The ex squaddie is taking a break, btw.
Thanks for the bite, Bungle 👍.
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You haven't got experience of working for every Indian customer though, have you? You're potentially prejudging a customer based on experiences of other customers of the same 'demographic'.
It's prejudice.
No because ive already said i dont believe they are ALL the same. Of course they are not all the same its just that in my experience the ones i have worked for have all been what i determine a pita. Therefore id rather not keep sticking my hand in the bees nest looking for the one time it doesnt sting me, i dont need to i have plenty of other work that i want to do.
Hive plenty of other work to do, too. You don't half do some moaning about the other work you want to do though ;D.
I only moan about work i dont want to do.
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
Anyone?
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
Anyone?
It’s quite obvious what you’re fishing for there shrek. Aren’t you a trump supporter btw??
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What is the average English person?
And how do we know if a prospective customer is Indian or not?
Anyone?
It’s quite obvious what you’re fishing for there shrek. Aren’t you a trump supporter btw??
Ah but these previous posts say it’s nothing about the colour of someone’s skin. Yes I am fishing, my wife is Indian (born here) and I wanted to know how someone could possibly know how someone is Indian.
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They don't....
from the posts you can see why.....
Darran
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@G Griffin, are you the same geezer who's always arguing with the ex squaddie on another section of the forum and always loses the argument?
Not getting many bites here are you!
The ex squaddie has never won an argument in his life.
Poor sod thinks he's still at war, this time he thinks he's battling "snowflakes".
:'(
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@G Griffin, are you the same geezer who's always arguing with the ex squaddie on another section of the forum and always loses the argument?
Not getting many bites here are you!
The ex squaddie has never won an argument in his life.
Poor sod thinks he's still at war, this time he thinks he battling "snowflakes".
:'(
I wonder how people know that he is an ex squaddie.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1656402412_p0LxJhb5_400x400.jpg)
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Indians can be Sikhs/Hindus or Muslim or even Christian or even Athiests :D