Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: NWH on June 02, 2022, 02:02:30 pm
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Hope someone can help I turned water on to fill turned on the booster pump to fill and it just pressured up and started to leak like it was going to explode from the RO,all help is appreciated.
Thanks
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I'd drain it dismantle inspect reassemble and see what happens after this
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I have drained the RO by opening the waste and letting gravity drain it into a bucket,I’ve disconnected the resin vessel both ends and there’s no pressure there as they came off with no water or pressure.
It’s a stainless steel membrane does anyone know if there’s a screw or plug to completely drain it,I’ve powered it on again earlier with the same problem.
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The water is fizzing out of the outlets at the top of the membrane when the pressure builds up,could this be an air-lock in the pre filters etc.
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Take all filters out of housings and run water through system without filters and see what happens what's the pressure reading on your booster pump and what is it after RO eliminate one piece of the system at a time until you find a cause
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Hi the reading on the booster pump when it was turned on didn’t move it stayed on 0 when it’s filling normally it’s 105-110,everything is connected up so it goes through the booster pump so water in and then to the booster then RO.
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I’ve released the pressure on the pre filters by pressing the red buttons on top of the 20” houseings.
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If it’s a 4040 like iv got from Daqua, you’ve got to unscrew the bolts on the clamps at the end of the housing to get the membrane out
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But if I unscrew the houseing to get it out what will that do completely drain it.
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It’s only been used to fill a 1000ltr tank once.
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Yeah , I’d upload a picture but it’s not letting me . Iv just changed my membrane last week , if that’s what you need to do (completely empty it) , then the metal clamps that hold the black end cap and housing together need to be unscrewed , you just need a couple of spanner’s (on mine) . Not sure what’s going on with the leaking though , it’s a bit strange . Maybe your booster pump is cream crackered?
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Just double check its in the correct way - and the wrapping is off
I always have to triple check ive put a 4040 in the right way as some don't have a a arrow on them
and a few years back someone had a problem similar to yours and they didn't take the outer protection off - so stopped it from working
HTH
Darran
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Hi Darren no I’ve used it to fill a 1000 ltr tank and it worked fine I turned it on to top it up as I’ve used probably just a 100ltrs from it,this morning I turned it on the booster pump comes on but the reading on the pressure gauge is 0 after 10-15 seconds the RO is full of pressure and leaking out the top of the houseing.
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It came all assembled on a stand from Pure Freedom tested and ready to use like I say it’s been working fine.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654179523_25FE5E3E-4589-42AE-B78B-A78FC31AA7AC.png)
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Had to download an app called ‘image size’ on the App Store to change the picture size 🫤.
Change the image to 1950 pixels.
Can you take a picture and show us exactly where it’s leaking?
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654180322_4916410F-3562-4792-8A1A-63926632EF81.jpeg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654180359_10245058-DE54-412F-A8BA-E899FA027E91.jpeg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654180384_765D9555-263D-4647-A871-33C14FFB33EF.jpeg)
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When it was turned on twice to fill the booster pump was running but the pressure on the gauge read 0 wasn’t moving.
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Open the gate valve (as if you’re flushing) and then slowly close it to build up the required pressure.
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Hi DonKee it’s pre set so it just needs a small turn for waste and then back a clockwise turn for making water,like I said it was working fine for the first 1000ltrs not a single leak.
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Where is it leaking from ? Is it the end cap on the membrane or is it leaking from the pressure gauge?
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It’s leaking from the top of the membrane fizzing out the top like it’s blocked some how nothing can be getting past the RO and even attempt to get in to the resin vessel.
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The pressure gauge isn’t even registering any pressure.
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It’s leaking from the top of the membrane fizzing out the top like it’s blocked some how nothing can be getting past the RO and even attempt to get in to the resin vessel.
Does anything need tightening?
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I don’t think anything needs tightening maybe the bolts that hold the membrane either end but like I say it was working fine before.
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If you’ve already filled your tank up once , I reckon everything is how it should be (membrane in the right way round etc) , maybe something has come loose after the 1st use
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What do you mean like the bolts top and bottom of the membrane the thing is water is not passing through it even when on waste only,it fills leaks and no water goes to drain.
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Hmm it’s a difficult one when it comes to membranes, it’s something we don’t really have to deal with for a few years at a time.
I had a quick google and someone had the same issue with the pressure gauge and it was the gauge that needed tightening but wasn’t having the issue of leaking water
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/pressure-gauge-not-working.750082/
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Apparently a lot of end caps are a crap fit so companies use shed loads of ptfe tape - maybe some has blocked the inlet? It’s a pita but it’s a process of elimination . I would take the end cap off and see what’s going on inside and see if it is actually blocked
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Thanks for that I’ll try tightening it but surely it can’t be that it’s only been used once,why am I getting no water out of the RO though it’s just filling full of pressure waters not going anywhere.
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When I unplugged the hose from RO into vessel I got no water at all.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654180384_765D9555-263D-4647-A871-33C14FFB33EF.jpeg)
Does this red switch make a difference to the water draining out?
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That is pre set for the pump it’s the perfect setting for optimum pressure I altered it by mistake and it ran terribly,I’ve just drained the RO from the waste pipe till it was empty and tried filling again.
This time the pressure gauge went up to 20 before again it started leaking and fizzing from the RO,could there be an air lock from RO to resin vessel causing back pressure perhaps.
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The RO was drained I could hear it filling when the booster pump was turned on.
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When you said you’ve already used it for 1000 litres did you check that the membrane was reducing the tds as would be expected? Did you make sure all packaging was removed from membrane? Sounds like something is blocking the membrane.
Don’t use the booster pump whilst investigating the problem, just use tap pressure.
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Thanks KS it was all removed they test everything before they send it out you could see they’d put water through it first before shipping like a lot of suppliers used to with pumps.
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I ran it again I had water coming out the waste pipe to drain and water coming out of RO into vessel,as this was happening the RO was Pi***** out water from the inlet side or the top as it’s mounted.
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I think you should open it up at the top end cap and see what’s going on . You’ll need to learn how to do it eventually when your membrane needs changing
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I’ve changed membranes before but this thing is on a frame so it’s a bit of a nightmare trying to dismantle anything on it,the pre filters and resin is easy enough as they are easily accessible.
What do you thinks going on inside perhaps PTFT tape blocking something ?
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I totally get you , I changed mine for the 1st time last week after 3 years . Before that I had a small ro so it was easy , this took me 4hrs to work out what I was doing wrong and couldn’t work out why the end cap kept popping off when I turned the water on. Turned out I was putting the clamp just onto the housing and not the end cap too 😭.
It could be something like a lump of ptfe tape blocking it inside , only one way to find out though buddy
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Yeah thanks I’ll have to have more of a look tomorrow although a bit of tape really you reckon, I can see they’ve used a fair bit from the outside but I can’t see why all of a sudden it would start being an issue it filled like a dream for that first 1000.
It’s trying to get out the RO as some is going to drain and some is going through resin,although this is happening the RO is still peeing out water from the top fittings like there’s a massive air lock but I did drain it out twice before refilling.
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You need to go through it step by step
Water going in? Pump working ? Waste water out ? Operate the red switch to flush are you getting more waste ?
Return switch back to production
Where it’s leaking can you give it a small turn to tighten no more than a spanner flat - but don’t force it assembled stuff that’s new quite often needs a tweak here and there
Personally I doubt ptfe had blocked anything
Darran
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Thanks Darren as you say I can’t think it’s the tape causing the problem the first fill gave no issues at all,the waste on the spindle valve has been set for efficiency a small turn for waste then turn back in fully for production.
Could there be a big air lock in the pre filters although water is getting through to the RO.
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Nothing wrong with the booster pump it’s working fine.
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I doubt you have an airlock if water is coming out the waste
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On mine I have a gate valve rather than a handle/tap
I always start it up on flush then. Lose the valve as you do this you can hear it pressurise - are you getting this?
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Hi Darren it’s been pre set a 1/4 turn for waste 1/2 a turn back for production when I spoke to Pure Freedom I said when I switch to waste just when I was familiarising myself with it I told them I still had some pure going to tank he said this was normal,every other 40 inch setup I’ve used it I switch to waste it’s waste only all down the drain.
You can hardly hear it pressurising when you switch back to production from waste.
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Yes if I go to waste there is still a trickle of pure
I have set up 2 taps with a pipe off each tap both of these are closed when in waste when I goto production you can hear it build up I open tap 1 which basically goes to a drain I leave running like this for a minute to get rid of tds creep I then close tap 1 and open tap 2 to fill tanks - I think without a tap your only going to hear a slight change
The big question is is the waste flow more when flushing or the same whether flush or in production?
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Tbh it’s not a lot different.
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But your only getting a leak in production - not flush ?
Darran
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I would get that RO housing apart & change that tap to a gate valve even if it is a bit difficult access.
If there’s a blockage of something off of a filter or a lump of ptfe, that tap may not let it through. Somethings changed during or since the first fill.
Obviously the more pressure the more it will leak.
As has been said, it’s a process of elimination.
Frustrating, but you will get to the bottom of it.
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Thanks Simon I did try to pop the top end cap off in the picture it budged about 2-3 “ but wouldn’t come completely off so I left it,it was almost like there was a vacuum if you look at my picture the fittings on top of the end cap can stay in place when being removed I hope my other RO just has a couple of John guest fittings that popped off in seconds.
If I need to remove the fittings that could be a bit of a nightmare.
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Suppliers should include instructions on how to change the membranes . It’s save a lot of down time and phone calls , Daqua includes instructions with the new membrane I bought - one thing to remember is to take pictures of every step you take so you know how to put it all back together
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Yeah thanks I’ve always done that in the past when I’ve dismantled heaters etc,the easiest RO I’ve seen to change is the Ionic one it takes literally 2 minutes to change.
Do I need to unscrew that fitting on my picture to remove the end cap that’s the question I would think I do before it’ll lift off.
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I’m no expert tbh , maybe someone else is more experienced than me. But from the picture, it looks to me like that metal elbow joint needs to come off for starters , then possibly the blue screw cap, then unbolt the metal clamp, then use a flat head screw driver and push it around the cap slowly loosening it all the way round until it pops off.
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I’ve got as far as taking the metal bracket off and lifting it off about 2” but it felt as though there was either an air lock or the fitting needed to come off also.
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I think the blue plastic screw is just a blanking screw that’s the inlet I use on my other system either end for waste and production water.
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On my membrane housing , once the membrane is inside, the end cap just pushes in and gets clamped in place
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Yeah so does my plastic 40x40 the plastic clip can be a fiddly thing to put back in sometimes,as you’ve seen on my metal houseing I have that metal inlet screwed into the top which must screw in the RO internally.
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Airlocks in our systems are a bit of a myth to me. Air just gets pumped out either by delivery pump or booster pump. Only ever affects calibration imo. Airlock would be the last thing i would think of in this case.
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I was thinking if it did happen to be an air lock though is it possible that the fitting could have moved at the top of the houseing internally causing it to leak.
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Suppliers should include instructions on how to change the membranes . It’s save a lot of down time and phone calls , Daqua includes instructions with the new membrane I bought - one thing to remember is to take pictures of every step you take so you know how to put it all back together
Agreed. Doug at Daqua actually changed mine for me as his old unit was only about 5 miles from me. Looked a right faff and it definitely helped that he had the proper tools for the job.
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I have to say I like the champ housing so straight forward - I have one of those stainless steel ones brand new going spare - I might get around to selling it sooner or later..
Nigel - where is the leak ? have you tried tightening up the connection ?
Darran
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Hi Darren do you mean the clamps if so yes I’ve tightened top and bottom but it still leaks out from the clamp.
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Darren should I remove that top 1/2” barb from the plastic houseing before trying to pop the top off or will it come off with it in place,surely it must be screwed in after the cap its on and clamped.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654272873_Nigel 1.jpg)
Just so im clear - are you leaking from A or from B ?
If B then I think you are going to strip it down - does the membrane come out this end ? personally I would have thought it would pull in/out the other end because thats a lot of fittings to undo for just a membrane change
Darran
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Initially and mainly it leaks from the bracket if it’s left on eventually it’ll only leak slightly from the other fitting.
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Should that top pop off though Darren with that fitting in place where it is at the moment.
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in theory it should pop off once the clamp is off - usually (well on the champ) you need to give it a hard pull as it gets sucked on really hard - however I cant see what that pipework goes so im not 100% certain you may have to disconnect it somewhere along the line
Darran
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Thanks yesterday I took the clamp off and popped the end up about 2” it was hard going like it was either being sucked by air or the fitting needed to be unscrewed before it would come off completely,if I manage to get it off what am I looking for this is the thing ie something blocking the fitting etc I’m not going to remove the RO from its stainless steel case in case I get grief from Pure Freedom although due to maintenance I would have to remove it at some point.
If there’s something wrong with it they can send me a new one as I said I’ve only filled a 1000 ltr tank once.
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Probably needs platinum jubilee clips.
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On the stainless steel clamps I couldn’t tighten them much more and when it worked fine the first time they weren’t tight at all,I’ve probably closed the gap 1/4” from when I first used it.
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Probably needs platinum jubilee clips.
thats actually quite funny!
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I reckon somethings happened to the RO itself if I had to guess.
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On the stainless steel clamps I couldn’t tighten them much more and when it worked fine the first time they weren’t tight at all,I’ve probably closed the gap 1/4” from when I first used it.
interesting - when you say closed do you mean the black cap has gone into the housing further ?
Maybe the o ring seal has come off - or split - this would allow the cap to fit too far inside restricting water through and out of the membrane
Darran
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Oh ok thank you Darren yes it’s almost like there’s a damaged O ring-washer because of the way the water is squirting out of the side of the clamp,if I leave it powered on with the booster pump still working I still get water in to tank and also get waste I turn it off as soon as it starts to leak everywhere so I turn it off.
It looks as if it’s working and water is passing through the RO and the pre filters and vessel,I just need to know if I need to remove that L shaped inlet before I take off the the top lid of the RO
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I know the plastic houseings have an O ring I have them on my other static setup,so these have an O ring when I lifted the top off yesterday I didn’t see an O ring broken or otherwise is there anyway it could have broken and moved down towards the membrane therefore not allowing me to see it.
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I’ve just watched a couple of videos on fitting these membranes and they should come with O rings for the top and bottom of the caps,I can’t remember seeing an O ring on mine when I partially removed it yesterday although saying that for the first 1000 I didn’t have any problems.
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On all the other 40” ROs I’ve looked at there’s no fitting that plugs in to the side at the top of the RO so my lid must just pop off with the need to undo it,if anyones knows different could they let me know please.
Thanks
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I tried it again this morning and before I turned it on it let me wind the waste right out where’s before it didn’t,it ran full waste again for 30 seconds then on waste only it started leaking from the fitting and then the cap itself.
As soon as I turned the waste valve in for pure and pressure built up it leaked like billyo again,surely the membrane has an issue.
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The fitting must surely just need more ptfe tape?
As for the housing & membrane, the o ring can't be sealing properly. Is the housing distorted/dented or can you not tighten it more? Is the o ring split? Water based lubricant help when putting anything with an o ring back together so as the o ring doesn't distort or cut.
That's what I would try anyway. It has to be something.
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Where exactly is it leaking from?
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654438440_A3DCB99D-79F8-40B4-B863-1DF55FB6F507.jpeg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654438461_AFE8AD17-D14F-4CD1-9DF7-FA2F357D1A0C.jpeg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654438477_D786D832-D1D3-42CB-BF55-1A21A32E5D52.jpeg)
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Leaking from both sides of that black houseing and the stainless steel fitting that goes in the cap.
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Have you not took this clamp off before trying to pop off the black cap? There shouldn’t be a gap-
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654438894_22FDC852-1458-4014-ACAC-83502E96DA0C.jpeg)
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I’ve just run it to waste only after taking off the metal band bracket and reseating it and tightening it up,with just waste it leaks from that fitting that goes in to the top of the RO or plastic cap then I turn it off.
If I turn the valve in to make water that’s when water squirts out the top of the houseing as well as that fitting but it leaks from the fitting all the same like I said with waste only.
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Its not leaking from the black fitting when running to waste as you have less pressure running through the membrane.
Once you’re turning the tap to start producing, you’re ramping up the pressure which looks like it’s causing the leaks.
Personally I would say it’s not seated correctly, although I’m not sure why it would work the first time and not the rest.
Either that or something is now restricting the pure causing back pressure.
If it were me (and apologies if you’ve already done it, I can’t be bothered going back over all the posts), I would take the membrane out, rest set it and the reset the end cap correctly with the rubber “o ring” it should have.
Maybe give the brass fitting a quarter turn as well to tighten but be careful not to over tighten, especially if the thread it’s screwing into it plastic.
Those valves are crap btw, be worth changing it to a gate valve if you ever get the chance.
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Thanks for that DonKee when I lifted the black cap off there was no O ring on these particular ROs which end does it slide out from what I’ve been reading it’s the waste end first,the weird thing is what could have dislodged the actual filter.
Thanks
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That stainless fitting in the top of the cap doesn’t connect to anything inside does it ? I don’t really want to have to take all those 3 fittings apart with the pressure gauge on.
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If you google ‘stainless steel ro housing’ it shows pictures of all the parts including o rings.
You just need to bite the bullet & take it all apart & start again. It’s now Sunday night & you’ve had 4 days off to take it apart.
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Thanks Simon lol you sound like an old teacher in all honesty I don’t really want to start butchering anything until I speak to them tomorrow,I was hoping it would be a small fix if they tell me to take it apart I will have to but I don’t want to call them and them say you shouldn’t have touched it.
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I’d still take it apart. An o ring’s come off or something.
They’re just going to want you to send it back. That’s even worse imo.
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I can’t think they’d want me to send anything back unless they tell me to open it up and somethings cracked inside,like you say though somethings a miss inside like an O ring or it’s not seated right is my guess the younger bloke there is really really helpful the other older guy is a misery.
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When I ordered it all I wanted a complete kit so I could start making water as soon as I needed to it just so happens I still have another static setup at another part of the county I’m using at the moment,it turned up with no hoses from waste to drain no hose from RO to tank in fact no hose I didn’t even get sent a spanner that undoes the Pre filters I said I want everything to start straight away.
I had to ring up next day and pay for pure and waste hose so I could turn the thing on as I don’t have anything where it’s gone.
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I’m inclined to agree with Simon that I can see it being a “take it apart” jobbie.
Having said that, I agree with ringing the supplier first, if anything at least the problem is logged so that if there is something wrong, they can’t blame you for “tampering”.
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Sounds like an o -ring problem to me..
as said I use a champ housing but here is each end - the first has the gate valve for pure/flush - out the centre goes the waste - you don't undo this end
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654452518_Valve end.jpg)
Second end is the water in - this end you open up to change the membrane - the other side of the cap is large O ring to seal ( this I did damage a year ago and it leaked - I had only pinched it slightly ) there is also a small o ring where the membrane stem goes into the cap - its not happened to me but I can see a possibility of it coming out - which I think would effect pressure
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654452708_open end.jpg)
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Thank you Darren for taking the time for me I appreciate it,I know I’m going to have to open it up tomorrow at some point but I didn’t want to do anything until I’ve called them and tbh I really tried to get the top off and it wouldn’t budge.
I did lift the cap like I said and I didn’t see any O ring that should be under the cap and compressing onto the metal houseing but it hasn’t leaked before that’s the dilemma for me,should it come off without removing stainless fittings that’s what I’d like to know there’s either a hell of a lot of pressure inside or it’s attached,the ionic RO they demo on YouTube is so simple to maintain takes 2 minutes to change.
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So yours is mounted vertically ?
I don’t think it will void any warranty as at some point you have to open it to change the membrane - it’s poor there are no instructions
It’s also possible that as a new set up something has come loose/broken after the initial testing period
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Yes mine is mounted vertically which is ideal as it is able to be tucked away,honestly I reckon I’m going to have real problems getting that cap off it will hardly budge.
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The only instructions I got with it was a QR code on the side of the control box for filling modes actual instructions for changing the membrane I didn’t get.
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On the leaflet they sent me it says if possible you should run the RO continuously any longer than a few day the water in the RO will begin to break the membrane down,eh I’ve never heard that before or it causing a problem
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That’s very odd - as long as you have carbon filter then everything should be hunky dorey
Darran
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654460392_0C59E0A6-7230-425A-BF50-31D44D52EB22.jpeg)
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WTH , iv never heard of that - which system did you buy? Put a link up from the pure freedom website
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654463351_4792FAFE-762F-4884-AB54-111A446A1E49.jpeg)
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ahh! - sorry mis understood your post - yes any RO system left not running for several days is subject to being destroyed - a lot depends on if it is allowed to drain dry - then the membrane can dry out - with mine being horizontally mounted with water exiting and entering from the top and like I said earlier extra taps when I turn it off water stays inside the housing - you can still get TDS creep thats why after flush and I goto pure I divert the first 2 minutes to the drain then into my holding tanks - I don't use resin so this short burst wouldn't get polished out
Darran
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Mine has water in it though Darren it’s not sitting dry when I filled it once I didn’t drain the RO I took the waste pipe and fixed it upright so it didn’t drain out,why would this cause the system to leak from the top though.
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Yesterday when I gave it a try several times the valve wouldn’t open fully to let me send it to waste only,this morning I drained it briefly and after a while it let me completely spin open the valve 2-3 full turns to waste only like there was no pressure inside the RO.
Briefly it filled up and all water went to waste for 15-20 seconds before it started to leak.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1654438440_A3DCB99D-79F8-40B4-B863-1DF55FB6F507.jpeg)
Does the cap under the blue fitting screw to the shiny housing? Only if it does then it’s already down on the housing on the right of the picture 🤷♂️
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Sorry didn’t understand what you meant there.
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I spoke to Pure Freedom and they reckon it’s a bad end cap which they are sending me tomorrow so we will see,can’t see it myself.
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I spoke to Pure Freedom and they reckon it’s a bad end cap which they are sending me tomorrow so we will see,can’t see it myself.
Did you ask them how to take the end cap off?
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I spoke to Pure Freedom and they reckon it’s a bad end cap which they are sending me tomorrow so we will see,can’t see it myself.
Because the end cap probably contains the o ring(s).
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Goodness me I got it off yes it has 2 clear O rings in the middle both in tact there was hardly any Vasalene used previously,I pulled the RO up and reseated it coated the inside with more vasalene and put the cap back on.
I got the same issue when going to waste only leaking from the fitting and then easing in to production water out the end cap,I am being sent a new cap and the fittings that go in to it but tbh I will be surprised if it solves the problem.
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Vaseline is oil based. You want to use a water based if possible.
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It was a distorted cap I fitted new cap complete with 3 new fittings and pressure gauge,it was reading 105 PSI before it’s now reading 120 not one leak hurrah
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Thank you for everybody’s input much appreciated.
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Glad you got it sorted.👍
Gotta say though, after some of the sh-ite you’ve posted in the past you’re lucky you got any help.
But let’s all move on.😀
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Thanks Simon it’s filling better than when I first used it it’s going in to the tank like a jet wash.
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Glad you got it sorted 👌
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Thanks Shrek 👌
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👍
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Cheers for all you’re help Darren 👌
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Glad you’re sorted.
A gate valve maybe something to consider in the future but if it aint broke…
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Yeah thanks DonKee that’s what I have on my other static setup I’ve set the screw on that so the waste and the pure don’t need messing with,just down for waste up to 8 o’clock for pure.
On this one I have the circle ⭕️ valve which is pre set also so it does work well tbh,it must have had a slight fault on the first fill honestly earlier today it filled 500 in 1 hour 30 minutes pressure constantly at 120psi.
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Yeah thanks DonKee that’s what I have on my other static setup I’ve set the screw on that so the waste and the pure don’t need messing with,just down for waste up to 8 o’clock for pure.
On this one I have the circle ⭕️ valve which is pre set also so it does work well tbh,it must have had a slight fault on the first fill honestly earlier today it filled 500 in 1 hour 30 minutes pressure constantly at 120psi.
Do you have two static systems?
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Yeah I’ve got another 1000ltr static setup.