Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Richard iSparkle on August 22, 2021, 10:10:26 pm
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1629666616_5.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1629666617_1.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1629666617_3.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1629666617_2.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1629666618_4.jpg)
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so... newish customer (2nd clean this week)
this car was delivered for her on the day of the clean and signed off as all good. then we came and cleaned. when the customer got home they saw their brand new car, saw the scratches and believes we have done them as we've been.
i asked if they have cctv because if we've done it i'll sort it. no issue. even if i think we could have done it i'll sort it or offer to pay half
she's just sent in these pics.
now i wasn't at the clean but my 2 guys were. they are both very trustworthy (they haven't seen the pics) and both say there was no way they have scratched anything. even if they had they both know that i will pay for it so they aren't in trouble or potentially out of pocket.
i'm shocked seeing the pics now as those scratches are terrible and i cant see how on earth they have happened. i cant see how we would have done it. to give more context it was a front only clean so only 1 guy cleaned while the other carded them and managed the hose
what are your thoughts?
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The scratches on the bonnet could be from a hose dragged across it but the ones on the front wing are in a swage line there is no way that your guys would have done that , also the paint is jagged chipped a hose wouldnt have caused that . I think she’s trying it on the problem is you cannot prove you didn’t do it and she can’t prove you did , I would say it depends how much you want to keep the customer , but I di t think your guys did that in a million years . It’s a difficult one and won’t be cheap to fix either I was a sprayer panel beater years ago and reckon that’s £600-800 to re spray that to do it properly. Let us know what happens .
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They aren't abrasion marks from a hose being pulled over the paintwork, they are really deep scratches with a sharp implement, tell her to get lost, dump her, she will be a pain to work for after this.
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that was my thoughts too. before i saw the pics i thought pole hose is the possible thing if anything, but those deep scrapes to the metal aren't done by a hose
to be honest i'll let my insurance sort it if it comes to that. they will investigate it but to me its a clear case of there's no way those deep marks are from us.
I'm more worried she should be chasing the delivery people not us.
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They aren't abrasion marks from a hose being pulled over the paintwork, they are really deep scratches with a sharp implement, tell her to get lost, dump her, she will be a pain to work for after this.
to be honest she's been lovely about it. she's just bought a new car and i think genuinely believes it must be us... saying that...
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I agree with splash. That chipped paint is quite aggressive damage, it's very unlikely you could inflict that by accident and not know! Looks more like the car's had a bit of a beating! I would explain to her, or even demonstrate, that there's nothing you would do, in line with cleaning her front windows that would, or could cause such damage by accident.
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I got accused of a million scratches on a pair of patio doors once with wfp on my first clean, scratches deep and in all directions, obviously some window cleaner had tried to use a scraper before me previously to remove cement burnt in the glass. I insisted they check my van for any sharp objects and proved it was impossible to scratch the glass using wfp brushes, dumped!
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That door pillar/bonnet top looks ridiculously gouged for a hose. Was her car delivered in the rain and the scratches not noticed?
What was your guys immediate reaction when you told them.
Does the second man usually 'manage the hose'? Was the car positioned so that the hose would have 'needed' managing around it on a front clean?
I would collar ONE of the guys and ask for a step by step account of what happened. Then immediately and separately ask the other.
The door pillar (or is it in a groove at the top of the bonnet?) digs look too deep and possibly too old.
If their story adds up and makes sense I'd back my blokes to the hilt.
Tough situation.
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I would ring my insurance to make them aware of the situation you have the photos and get statements from your lads in case it turn into a claim.
Dump her and leave it to the insurance company.
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Looking at the images you can see rust!!!! That damage is old not new!
When she received delivery did she actually check it or did the delivery person say 'he had checked it and it was all ok'?
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I don't think you have anything to worry about - cant see that being from a hose
if it was delivered (by cazoo or whoever) then they would have taken a full video of it when taken off the trailer - ask to see that video to prove condition
however, in this instance I wouldn't be accepting any liability or offering to pay for anything
Darran
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2nd and 3rd pictures the scratches look like they're going across a ridge. No way could a hose have done that. The
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How old is the car?
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Picture 3:
The damage on the left looks ancient!
That's the sort of tiny surface rust I've had on my truck bonnet for 10 years.
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absolutely no way have your lads done damage like that to her car!i wouldnt get any insurance involved either its not needed....
id tell her thats shes out of order for even accusing you of damage like that...its obvious some of the scratches are very old(as some have rust in them!) ::)roll....
id dump.....and block her number...cheeky cow! >:(
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so... newish customer (2nd clean this week)
this car was delivered for her on the day of the clean and signed off as all good. then we came and cleaned. when the customer got home they saw their brand new car, saw the scratches and believes we have done them as we've been.
i asked if they have cctv because if we've done it i'll sort it. no issue. even if i think we could have done it i'll sort it or offer to pay half
she's just sent in these pics.
now i wasn't at the clean but my 2 guys were. they are both very trustworthy (they haven't seen the pics) and both say there was no way they have scratched anything. even if they had they both know that i will pay for it so they aren't in trouble or potentially out of pocket.
i'm shocked seeing the pics now as those scratches are terrible and i cant see how on earth they have happened. i cant see how we would have done it. to give more context it was a front only clean so only 1 guy cleaned while the other carded them and managed the hose
what are your thoughts?
im sorry but theres no way that car is brand new!its second hand!
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I can't see how they would of done that sort of damage?
She could have bought the car secondhand with the damage already there? and is lying to get it repaired for free off your insurance?
Did she know you were coming on that day?
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No way was all that damage caused from one clean, The scratches on the bonnet just under the windscreen are the most thought prevoking, a hose sitting in that recess would surely cause scratches from left to right not up and down, and no where near that deep.
If someone asked you to deliberately cause as much damage to a car as you possible could with a hose pipe in the time it takes to clean the front of a house, you would struggle to match the amount of damage caused to that car, way too much for just one visit. Something very wrong here.
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Personally I would say if you have any evidence it was us then of course i will pay. If she doesn't then sorry but nothing to do with us, It's a first clean just dump them and move on.
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3rd pic down at point, left of gouge, looks like flaking paint or chip touched up by red paint, so defo not a new car mate.
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That damage is quite old.
I reckon she is trying to pull a fast one.
No way is that recent.
Shes got done.
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I personally think they look just like wfp hose scratches. I lightly scratched the front wing of a mini a few years ago. Customer was out and I quickly "T" cut them out. However, I have caused some deep grooves on Upvc caravan decking pulling hoses over hand rails or around corner posts. I use 8mm hose that is slightly dimpled and picks up grit when wet. I would hold my hands up and offer to pay. Your insurance may cover most of the cost? ???
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I personally think they look just like wfp hose scratches. I lightly scratched the front wing of a mini a few years ago. Customer was out and I quickly "T" cut them out. However, I have caused some deep grooves on Upvc caravan decking pulling hoses over hand rails or around corner posts. I use 8mm hose that is slightly dimpled and picks up grit when wet. I would hold my hands up and offer to pay. Your insurance may cover most of the cost? ???
I wouldn't be paying for nothing, there's no way a hose has done that damage, you need to go to specsavers ;D
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Did anything of note transpire from this Richard iSparkle?
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Did anything of note transpire from this Richard iSparkle?
Hi, I’ve been on holiday for the last 2 weeks.
I popped over to have a look at the scratches between my holidays and told the client we’d make a claim on our insurance
The customer then emailed and complained that i had knocked on their door without an appointment… and then started demanding evidence that we were insured and evidence that I had made a claim.. so they went from being all reasonable to quite aggravated very quickly.
I’ve left it with my insurers now. The way I see it is this is what I pay them to sort out. It’s out of my hands
The customer hasn’t cancelled their cleans yet, but I think I should probably cancel them as a customer because it doesn’t seem like they trust us now so probably best to end it
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"complained that i had knocked on their door without an appointment…"
They sound like complete numptys, you did well to keep your cool.
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"numptys" was definitely not the word I used and doesn't begin to describe them.
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I think your crazy - you now have left yourself wide op n for any and every customer to claim for damage to anything after you have clean at there house
I certainly would be miffed at their attitude as well
But it’s your complaint to deal with as you see fit
Darran
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Did anything of note transpire from this Richard iSparkle?
Hi, I’ve been on holiday for the last 2 weeks.
I popped over to have a look at the scratches between my holidays and told the client we’d make a claim on our insurance
The customer then emailed and complained that i had knocked on their door without an appointment… and then started demanding evidence that we were insured and evidence that I had made a claim.. so they went from being all reasonable to quite aggravated very quickly.
I’ve left it with my insurers now. The way I see it is this is what I pay them to sort out. It’s out of my hands
The customer hasn’t cancelled their cleans yet, but I think I should probably cancel them as a customer because it doesn’t seem like they trust us now so probably best to end it
they are being completely unreasonable . how extremely rude of them.
II am afraid at this point I would walk away and leave it for them to prove , and for them to persue.
as for being a continued customer , I would be glad to see the back of them .
there is no room in this life for rude unreasonable people
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Take them off your books now!
Dubious damage to the car and rude at the door, what’s the matter with you!
Tony
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I personally think your mad to accept responsibility for the damage as they are pulling the wool over your eyes. Manners cost nothing, you are better off without the grief from pompous, petty customers like this. I clean for quite a few celebrities and famous rich people and never get looked down upon, very nice people.
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Similar to other responses here, I think you've been stitched up like a kipper! I would hope your insurers have more balls than you.😁
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i dont think the damage was caused by your window cleaners,would never have admitted liability and i certainly would not no matter the circumstances ever go back and clean their windows,after all we dont want you damaging their roughcast or frames or glass or anything else on the property
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I very much doubt the insurance company will bother to investigate. The cost of doing an investigation (even the cost of hiring someone to go look at the damage) will be way higher than it would cost just to repair the damage.
Sorry to say it, but they will just pay it and it will go down as a claim on your policy.
I had a customer once who accused me of scratching their window sill. I looked at it, and honestly couldn’t say whether it was me or not. So I just said I didn’t see how it could’ve been done by the equipment I use.
She said “hmm” and dropped it.
I think if I’d have been in your shoes I’d have said “no sorry, it wasn’t us. Prove it was.”
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It’s interesting to read the responses.
I worked in car insurance for a year back in my youth
They certainly weren’t keen to pay out on anything and would avoid it if they could
Like I said, I pay insurance to sort these things out. It’s not black and white.
I’ve not used insurers before with iSparkle but on this claim it is the simplest and least costly thing to do
I think you’re right that I should cancel their future cleans though
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I would hope your insurers have more balls than you.😁
That’s just offensive.
No need to be a d1ck
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I personally think your mad to accept responsibility for the damage as they are pulling the wool over your eyes. Manners cost nothing, you are better off without the grief from pompous, petty customers like this. I clean for quite a few celebrities and famous rich people and never get looked down upon, very nice people.
I’ve not accepted responsibility for it
I have asked my insurers to sort it, told them I don’t believe it was us and given them my evidence
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I personally think your mad to accept responsibility for the damage as they are pulling the wool over your eyes. Manners cost nothing, you are better off without the grief from pompous, petty customers like this. I clean for quite a few celebrities and famous rich people and never get looked down upon, very nice people.
I’ve not accepted responsibility for it
I have asked my insurers to sort it, told them I don’t believe it was us and given them my evidence
That's a change in tone, earlier you'd almost credited her bank account!😁
"I popped over to have a look at the scratches between my holidays and told the client we’d make a claim on our insurance"
"I’ve left it with my insurers now. The way I see it is this is what I pay them to sort out. It’s out of my hands"
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I wouldn’t even have contacted the insurance over this ( they will just pay it and up your premium )
If as you say it was delivered that day then there will be a video taken to show the condition until that is produced I wouldn’t entertain anything - different if it was a window where we had actually worked etc….
Unless of course you really suspect your guys did damage it…..
Darran
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Did anything of note transpire from this Richard iSparkle?
Hi, I’ve been on holiday for the last 2 weeks.
I popped over to have a look at the scratches between my holidays and told the client we’d make a claim on our insurance
The customer then emailed and complained that i had knocked on their door without an appointment… and then started demanding evidence that we were insured and evidence that I had made a claim.. so they went from being all reasonable to quite aggravated very quickly.
I’ve left it with my insurers now. The way I see it is this is what I pay them to sort out. It’s out of my hands
The customer hasn’t cancelled their cleans yet, but I think I should probably cancel them as a customer because it doesn’t seem like they trust us now so probably best to end it
Any customer that said to me you need to make an appointment for something like that would be an instant dump , I think they are trying it on I wouldn’t evan bother informing my insurance company about it , your guys clearly haven’t caused this damage they are just going to be trouble customers.
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I personally think your mad to accept responsibility for the damage as they are pulling the wool over your eyes. Manners cost nothing, you are better off without the grief from pompous, petty customers like this. I clean for quite a few celebrities and famous rich people and never get looked down upon, very nice people.
I’ve not accepted responsibility for it
I have asked my insurers to sort it, told them I don’t believe it was us and given them my evidence
That's a change in tone, earlier you'd almost credited her bank account!😁
"I popped over to have a look at the scratches between my holidays and told the client we’d make a claim on our insurance"
"I’ve left it with my insurers now. The way I see it is this is what I pay them to sort out. It’s out of my hands"
It’s not a change of tone. It’sa difference in understanding
Maybe my using the term making a claim on insurance leads you to think I meant I was asking them to pay
That’s not what I meant. What I suppose I meant was that the customer could claim on our insurance and the insurers will decide if it’s genuine
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I wouldn’t even have contacted the insurance over this ( they will just pay it and up your premium )
If as you say it was delivered that day then there will be a video taken to show the condition until that is produced I wouldn’t entertain anything - different if it was a window where we had actually worked etc….
Unless of course you really suspect your guys did damage it…..
Darran
The truth is I don’t know if they damaged it and neither do the customers. I don’t believe we have but it is possible we did.
It’s important for me to know that I have been fair and professional.
Insurers handle this sort of thing day in day out. They won’t always pay out. I trust them to make the fair decision and if they do pay they’ll have boundaries on what they’ll pay for
And I can concentrate on running my business.
Makes sense to me and is the best decision for me on this occasion.
Obviously different people in different circumstances would do different things.
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personally i would of told them "it wasnt us who damaged your car" followed by dumping them immediately...blocking their number in the process.....
your employees absolutely did NOT cause that damage to their car.......its far too extensive and some scratch marks have rust in them!
i really hate people like that....if i could get away with some extreme violence id give them a beating...no doubt about it...they are scumbags mate.....
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Honestly fair play to you but you are being way over the top professional in this instance.
Unless there is actual proof then it's just a customer making an accusation because they have a lack of evidence to prove otherwise but they still need someone to blame.
I wouldn't even entertain the thought of accepting liability or being prepared to pay for something like this unless a customer had actual concrete evidence. The chances of it even being window cleaning related seem such low rare odds in any case.
Remember as professional as you think you are, we are all replaceable. Customers will replace us as soon as we are no longer useful to them. So for that reason Loyalty should not go above logical reasoning.
If a customer is making accusations without any physical proof/evidence it was us, then i dont care how long they have been a customer they are going in the bin and move on like Adam said (stoots).
I've had to do this twice now and on both occasions it turned out the damage was not done by us, and later on the customer got in touch to apologise.
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Honestly fair play to you but you are being way over the top professional in this instance.
Unless there is actual proof then it's just a customer making an accusation because they have a lack of evidence to prove otherwise but they still need someone to blame.
I wouldn't even entertain the thought of accepting liability or being prepared to pay for something like this unless a customer had actual concrete evidence. The chances of it even being window cleaning related seem such low rare odds in any case.
Remember as professional as you think you are, we are all replaceable. Customers will replace us as soon as we are no longer useful to them. So for that reason Loyalty should not go above logical reasoning.
If a customer is making accusations without any physical proof/evidence it was us, then i dont care how long they have been a customer they are going in the bin and move on like Adam said (stoots).
I've had to do this twice now and on both occasions it turned out the damage was not done by us, and later on the customer got in touch to apologise.
That's interesting. May I ask the circumstances of you getting blamed and then getting the apology?
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Honestly fair play to you but you are being way over the top professional in this instance.
Unless there is actual proof then it's just a customer making an accusation because they have a lack of evidence to prove otherwise but they still need someone to blame.
I wouldn't even entertain the thought of accepting liability or being prepared to pay for something like this unless a customer had actual concrete evidence. The chances of it even being window cleaning related seem such low rare odds in any case.
Remember as professional as you think you are, we are all replaceable. Customers will replace us as soon as we are no longer useful to them. So for that reason Loyalty should not go above logical reasoning.
If a customer is making accusations without any physical proof/evidence it was us, then i dont care how long they have been a customer they are going in the bin and move on like Adam said (stoots).
I've had to do this twice now and on both occasions it turned out the damage was not done by us, and later on the customer got in touch to apologise.
Like I said, it’s important that I believe I am doing the right thing
Obviously we all have different opinions on what that is
I usually will pay if I think there is a reasonable chance we might have done damage
In this case I’m just not sure so makes sense to let my insurance deal with it
I’ll let you know the outcome and how I feel about it
;D
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It go 2 ways - either they will process the claim and pay it - because it's not cost effective these days to fight it and send out accessors etc..
Or you will be bombarded with forms and paperwork asking for descriptions photos etc...
you will spend a lot of time with this, if you don't fill in the paperwork they will pay out, if by your tone there is a possibility you damaged the car they will pay out...
For my experiences with insurance they no longer fight your corner because it costs to much so they pay out instead then raise your premium.
Being professional or not Richard - and as said if it was a window I'd pay every time - but this, no not without proof - unless I secretly knew the guys actually did it - trying to hold onto a customer in these circumstances just isn't worth it
Darran
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I can't imagine your employees are going to feel great about this if the insurance company pays out. Put yourself in their position, even if you explain to them your stance on this, they wouldn't be human if part of them felt you hadn't fully believed them and backed them up. I'd had lost respect for my boss in any previous job I've had if he didn't back me up if someone had challenged my integrety like this, don't forget, your employees have totally denied it happened so in effect the customer is calling them liars, I'd want to know my boss had 100% trust in me and had my back. Hope it all works out Richard, I don't envy you this situation but if you value these lads then I think you've made a mistake.
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I doubt the operatives give two hoots.
If there had been a similar situation whenever I've been on the cards I wouldn't have given it a second thought once the initial hoo-haa had quietened down.
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I doubt the operatives give two hoots.
If there had been a similar situation whenever I've been on the cards I wouldn't have given it a second thought once the initial hoo-haa had quietened down.
You've been employed as a window cleaner in the past and you wouldn't have cared if you caused damage to people's property?
I don't think the operatives have caused the damage. Do you think from the pictures a hose has caused the damage? I don't.
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I doubt the operatives give two hoots.
If there had been a similar situation whenever I've been on the cards I wouldn't have given it a second thought once the initial hoo-haa had quietened down.
You've been employed as a window cleaner in the past and you wouldn't have cared if you caused damage to people's property?
I don't think the operatives have caused the damage. Do you think from the pictures a hose has caused the damage? I don't.
No, but I’ve been employed working for someone else working in other peoples properties. The discussion isn’t about whether someone cares conscientiously if they’ve caused damage to someone else’s property.
In answer to your second question, I haven’t got a clue., however, I think it is possible that is what could’ve caused the damage.
I struggle to remember a post on here where the general consensus has been where the window cleaner is to blame. Even when they’ve been working on the pane of glass that’s broken. It’s comical really.
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I doubt the operatives give two hoots.
If there had been a similar situation whenever I've been on the cards I wouldn't have given it a second thought once the initial hoo-haa had quietened down.
You've been employed as a window cleaner in the past and you wouldn't have cared if you caused damage to people's property?
I don't think the operatives have caused the damage. Do you think from the pictures a hose has caused the damage? I don't.
No, but I’ve been employed working for someone else working in other peoples properties. The discussion isn’t about whether someone cares conscientiously if they’ve caused damage to someone else’s property.
In answer to your second question, I haven’t got a clue., however, I think it is possible that is what could’ve caused the damage.
I struggle to remember a post on here where the general consensus has been where the window cleaner is to blame. Even when they’ve been working on the pane of glass that’s broken. It’s comical really.
Really?
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Really what? You’ve highlighted multiple sentences. What is it you want clarifying?
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Really what? You’ve highlighted multiple sentences. What is it you want clarifying?
The parts in red. It's quite simple.
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It go 2 ways - either they will process the claim and pay it - because it's not cost effective these days to fight it and send out accessors etc..
Or you will be bombarded with forms and paperwork asking for descriptions photos etc...
you will spend a lot of time with this, if you don't fill in the paperwork they will pay out, if by your tone there is a possibility you damaged the car they will pay out...
For my experiences with insurance they no longer fight your corner because it costs to much so they pay out instead then raise your premium.
Being professional or not Richard - and as said if it was a window I'd pay every time - but this, no not without proof - unless I secretly knew the guys actually did it - trying to hold onto a customer in these circumstances just isn't worth it
Darran
turns out they investigated and decided we have no liability ;D
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It go 2 ways - either they will process the claim and pay it - because it's not cost effective these days to fight it and send out accessors etc..
Or you will be bombarded with forms and paperwork asking for descriptions photos etc...
you will spend a lot of time with this, if you don't fill in the paperwork they will pay out, if by your tone there is a possibility you damaged the car they will pay out...
For my experiences with insurance they no longer fight your corner because it costs to much so they pay out instead then raise your premium.
Being professional or not Richard - and as said if it was a window I'd pay every time - but this, no not without proof - unless I secretly knew the guys actually did it - trying to hold onto a customer in these circumstances just isn't worth it
Darran
turns out they investigated and decided we have no liability ;D
That's a great result. Good to know that sometimes an insurance company will back you. Hopefully your premiums wont go up.
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I wouldn’t even have contacted the insurance over this ( they will just pay it and up your premium )
If as you say it was delivered that day then there will be a video taken to show the condition until that is produced I wouldn’t entertain anything - different if it was a window where we had actually worked etc….
Unless of course you really suspect your guys did damage it…..
Darran
I watched a driver deliver a new car to a neighbour the other day. On arrival he walked around the car and took lots of photos before posting the car keys through the letter box. The delivery driver should have photos of the car when he delivered it.
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I wouldn’t even have contacted the insurance over this ( they will just pay it and up your premium )
If as you say it was delivered that day then there will be a video taken to show the condition until that is produced I wouldn’t entertain anything - different if it was a window where we had actually worked etc….
Unless of course you really suspect your guys did damage it…..
Darran
I watched a driver deliver a new car to a neighbour the other day. On arrival he walked around the car and took lots of photos before posting the car keys through the letter box. The delivery driver should have photos of the car when he delivered it.
they did apparently
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what scratch it...
or
Took photos.....
either way your in the clear good result
Darran
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It go 2 ways - either they will process the claim and pay it - because it's not cost effective these days to fight it and send out accessors etc..
Or you will be bombarded with forms and paperwork asking for descriptions photos etc...
you will spend a lot of time with this, if you don't fill in the paperwork they will pay out, if by your tone there is a possibility you damaged the car they will pay out...
For my experiences with insurance they no longer fight your corner because it costs to much so they pay out instead then raise your premium.
Being professional or not Richard - and as said if it was a window I'd pay every time - but this, no not without proof - unless I secretly knew the guys actually did it - trying to hold onto a customer in these circumstances just isn't worth it
Darran
turns out they investigated and decided we have no liability ;D
With our insurer, if we say we don't think we did it, they tell the customer to do one. ;D
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interesting outcome to this now...
so the claim was rejected by my insurer and the customer hasn't come back to us about it
also, my insurance is being renewed and my premium is down 33% from last year
win win :D
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interesting outcome to this now...
so the claim was rejected by my insurer and the customer hasn't come back to us about it
also, my insurance is being renewed and my premium is down 33% from last year
win win :D
That's what i like to hear!! Window Cleaner 1-0 Customer
Stupid custards!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Are you going to carry on cleaning? Must be very tempting to dump with full explanation of why ie can't trust them down to insurance investigators findings.
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Are you going to carry on cleaning? Must be very tempting to dump with full explanation of why ie can't trust them down to insurance investigators findings.
nah not going to carry on
i suspended cleans when they started being bullish and just wont start them
in my experience whether we sort a problem or not, it always seems to end with them cancelling sooner or later
sad really