Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: chris turner on July 09, 2021, 01:38:18 pm
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For any one thinking of going hot, I wouldn't bother.
I have been using hot for 5 or 6 months now and for the extra money involved, brushes destroyed, window cracked and more importantly, quality of work, it is not worth it.
My old way of working was superior, cheaper and safer on the glass. That is good old fashioned cold water and chemicals.
I have been testing hot water vs cold and chemicals for a few weeks now and the chemicals wins hands down.
Hot may have its place the winter months purely to keep me working but other then that I do not see its benefits.
Also cold water on its own for me just doesn't quite cut it in terms of cleaning power, which is why I use chemicals.
I wanted to see what hot was like after all the rave reviews but I can now say for sure its definitely not worth it.
The method below beats hot in terms of price and cleaning power, where hot only wins slightly in terms of speed, but only slightly.
Using a high flow, I suggest a minimum of 60 on the flow controller, give the top frame a quick go over. This gets rid of the main culprit of spotting.
Turn water off ( very quick with univalve ) and using a spray bottle filled with NEAT chemical of your choice, spray each glass panel once.
Give the entire window a quick go over with water off, mixing that chemical with the water that had run down the window from when you cleaned the top frame.
Turn water back on and clean the window as normal.
Now I say as normal but it will be very quick as the chemical has already done most of the hard work for you, so you just need to give it a quick go over and rinse, job done.
This method uses less water as the chemical does the hard work so less scrubbing involved, meaning you can have a higher flow.
It cleans deeper, easily removes snail trails, fly poop, those annoying brown leaf marks etc. I found hot hardly touched these.
Is far cheaper, it works out as pennies per day.
No danger of cracking windows.
Brushes last longer and stay cleaner.
Windows always look super clean and shiny after.
The only few benefits of hot are that its very slightly quicker, but not worth the extra cost for seconds saved.
It is excellent for fascias and soffitts, especially when mixed with chemicals.
It keeps you working in the colder months.
I will only be using hot from now on for those last 2 reasons, not for day to day window cleaning.
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Interesting Chris. Most who've gone over to hot have a dogged refusal to accept it was not worth the investment.
I've always thought this was down to it either being because it does a considerably better job or having to convince themselves it does because of the money they've invested. What hot system have you been using ? and what is your chosen chemical ?
I'm a cold user but may have had an interest in going hot at some point.
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I’ll second that Chris, on regular 4 weekly maintenance cleans hot doesn’t make any difference. If you are still expanding and taking on all manner of work, then yes it is quicker on filthy first cleans, green algae etc, but that’s about it.
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Interesting Chris. Most who've gone over to hot have a dogged refusal to accept it was not worth the investment.
I've always thought this was down to it either being because it does a considerably better job or having to convince themselves it does because of the money they've invested. What hot system have you been using ? and what is your chosen chemical ?
I'm a cold user but may have had an interest in going hot at some point.
Mines an insulated immersion system from toolcraft. Before NHW says its an immersion so its not hot enough, I have it set to 70c and the water is so hot coming from the brush that I can't even hold my hand there for a second. Temp from brush 2 days ago was 59c.
It was around £1500 to purchase the system and my electric bill is about £60 more a month to use it. So around £12.50 a week. Not much but when you consider that brushes only last a few weeks now before there mangled as well as I cracked a window a while back costing about £150, it works out quite expensive.
If the benefits were truly great then I would say its worth the cost but as I said in my original post, cold and chemicals easily out perform it.
For chemicals I get them from a local supplier, the stuff is called Merlin extra heavy duty cleaner/degrease. Its the biz.
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I feel a long and highly opinionated thread coming..... ;D
Darran
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I’ll second that Chris, on regular 4 weekly maintenance cleans hot doesn’t make any difference. If you are still expanding and taking on all manner of work, then yes it is quicker on filthy first cleans, green algae etc, but that’s about it.
I work on an 8 weekly schedule so I find i need that bit extra that cold on its own doesn't give, which is why I use chemicals.
I also want to point out that on a purely hot vs cold water debate, I think hot is better. Edit ( but still not worth the extra costs ).
What I am saying in my original post is that there is a better way then either hot/cold on their own.
I worked for years this way, never got complaints, only compliments on how good a job I done. I was always just slightly intrigued by hot water and decided to give a try and can now say without a doubt my original way of working was superior.
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Interesting read. It’s each to their own isn’t it. I certainly think faffing around with chemicals all the time would do my head in.
One down side with an immersion as you found is the lack of ability to control the temp. You need piping hot water at the start of the day so it keeps warm, but piping hot water first thing on cold glsss isn’t good.
I can set mine to just warm, and then turn a dial up for hot hot.
I’ve got the Grippatank 9kw heater and love it. I’d buy a new one tomorrow. If I wasn’t full time though, I’d go for an immersion like you chris.
There’s no wrong opinion in this…… just use what works for you.
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Interesting Chris. Most who've gone over to hot have a dogged refusal to accept it was not worth the investment.
I've always thought this was down to it either being because it does a considerably better job or having to convince themselves it does because of the money they've invested. What hot system have you been using ? and what is your chosen chemical ?
I'm a cold user but may have had an interest in going hot at some point.
Same as so find this thread very interesting. I never use chems on windows tho thats why hot water was going to be attractive to me
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Use cold and put chemicals on you’re brush and spread it all over the frames and glass it’ll take 3-4x longer to clean the window the time you’ve rinsed off all the suds etc and if you don’t rinse enough it’ll leave the window looking awful,I’ve done this with cold.
It’s a bit like saying an “S” is as good or better than an “RS” it’s no where near I’ve just purchased the latter,you could go round all your work with hot and then have 3 months with it switched off on those jobs because they’ll have had that deep clean especially on anything plastic.
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How do you get the chemicals to the top windows? Or bottoms only?
How much do the chemicals cost on a daily usage basis?
How much time does it take to spray the chemicals on?
How much time on scrubbing does the use of chemicals save?
Is there an issue when the chemical-laden water falls on plants?
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M8 if you put chemicals over the window and glass you’ll get spots and runs galore unless you stand there like a fool rinsing for an age,what gives you the same results as using chemicals for a superior clean with water only ,it’s hot water m8.
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Perfect for ground floor windows, to spray top windows more time is wasted spraying on the brush, or geting the back pack out of the van... Otherwise its perfect sytem and what I use for all 1st cleans. I wish someone invented an extra chems tank and mixer with a button on the pole for premix spray... so no time wasted changing poles etc :) 8) ;D
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How do you get the chemicals to the top windows? Or bottoms only?
How much do the chemicals cost on a daily usage basis?
How much time does it take to spray the chemicals on?
How much time on scrubbing does the use of chemicals save?
Is there an issue when the chemical-laden water falls on plants?
Bottoms only.
£9.99 for a 5 litre bottle, go through about 1 litre a month so around £2 a month.
Seconds. I keep the bottle in a pouch so its close by. Water off, 2 or 3 squirts on glass, quick agitate, water on, another quick agitate, rinse. It makes cleaning feel easy peasy.
See above. Barely any scrubbing needed as the chemicals have done the hard bit. High flow is needed to quickly rinse away the suds. However water is only on half the time so saving water.
Before hot I worked this way for years, never any complaints about dead plants.
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M8 if you put chemicals over the window and glass you’ll get spots and runs galore unless you stand there like a fool rinsing for an age,what gives you the same results as using chemicals for a superior clean with water only ,it’s hot water m8.
I have worked this way for years, customers love it. They see the suds and it truly looks like the windows are getting a proper clean, which they are.
No spots or runs with a good flow, plus the chemicals have helped break down all the dirt and wash it away.
You can sing and dance all you want about hot but having now used it I can categorically say its overrated, overpriced and there are simpler and better ways.
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Use cold and put chemicals on you’re brush and spread it all over the frames and glass it’ll take 3-4x longer to clean the window the time you’ve rinsed off all the suds etc and if you don’t rinse enough it’ll leave the window looking awful,I’ve done this with cold.
It’s a bit like saying an “S” is as good or better than an “RS” it’s no where near I’ve just purchased the latter,you could go round all your work with hot and then have 3 months with it switched off on those jobs because they’ll have had that deep clean especially on anything plastic.
False.
Working on a 8 weekly schedule i have some windows and particularly frames and sills that get very dirty. I can scrub and scrub with hot and some of the marks just don't shift. One squirt of chems and in literally seconds those marks are melting away, quick scrub and rinse and I'm off.
I have tested this so many times especially on windows sills and the chemicals win every time, unless the sill is pretty clean to start with.
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What do you use as a spayer / squirter to apply the merlin solution Chris ? This post reminded me of this you tube video. I think personally a right faff for regular cleans on upstairs windows but like you have said for downstairs windows only a sprayer is alright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWxD_6rtVT0
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I've been using degreaser on a few bottom windows recently. The amount of snail trails on some windows is barmy. Quick spray, water off, agitate, water on, agitate and rinse. Fortunately snails don't often get up to the bedroom windows. But when they do it's a proper ball ache.
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Some of you guys need to give your heads a wobble, if cold wasn't up to the job then we would all still be working from ladders, its a lack of faith in the method that drives certain people to waste money on nonsense.
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Fair play to you Chris - we use chemical for first cleans - with or without hot - its the ultimate combo - but I would feel its to time consuming as a regular window cleaning service
I agree customers love it, it was the same when using vision - those few extra bubbles really got customers on side - sham it clogged everything up.
I think we need to remember we all work in different ways and areas - for me we use a different technique on the sea front to when cleaning in Norwich - same applies whether its 4 or 8 weekly clean - you can have a pretty solid style but there are always little tweaks for certain jobs
Darran
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How do you get the chemicals to the top windows? Or bottoms only?
How much do the chemicals cost on a daily usage basis?
How much time does it take to spray the chemicals on?
How much time on scrubbing does the use of chemicals save?
Is there an issue when the chemical-laden water falls on plants?
Bottoms only.
£9.99 for a 5 litre bottle, go through about 1 litre a month so around £2 a month.
Seconds. I keep the bottle in a pouch so its close by. Water off, 2 or 3 squirts on glass, quick agitate, water on, another quick agitate, rinse. It makes cleaning feel easy peasy.
See above. Barely any scrubbing needed as the chemicals have done the hard bit. High flow is needed to quickly rinse away the suds. However water is only on half the time so saving water.
Before hot I worked this way for years, never any complaints about dead plants.
. What chem you using Chris?
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Fairy ;D ;D ;D
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You just need confidence with cold so I spray a bit of chemical degreaser on the windows first eh 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Its made by merlin, called extra heavy duty cleaner/degreaser. I get it from a local cleaning supplier.
I use a normal spray bottle or if I'm carrying other bits I use the unger spray bottle belt attachment.
The point i was trying to make with my original post is that for anyone thinking of going hot, try other things first because its really not all its cracked up to be.
As I said working an 8 weekly schedule, which I'm also often behind so it can be 9 or 10 weeks, windows get very dirty to the point that cold alone just doesn't do it. Chemicals are not for everyone, I know some like to splash and dash but with such big gaps between cleans I can't splash and dash as the windows are too dirty.
Chemicals speed up the process for me and from my experience over the past few months do a better job then hot without all the faff and expense of using hot.
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Its made by merlin, called extra heavy duty cleaner/degreaser. I get it from a local cleaning supplier.
I use a normal spray bottle or if I'm carrying other bits I use the unger spray bottle belt attachment.
The point i was trying to make with my original post is that for anyone thinking of going hot, try other things first because its really not all its cracked up to be.
As I said working an 8 weekly schedule, which I'm also often behind so it can be 9 or 10 weeks, windows get very dirty to the point that cold alone just doesn't do it. Chemicals are not for everyone, I know some like to splash and dash but with such big gaps between cleans I can't splash and dash as the windows are too dirty.
Chemicals speed up the process for me and from my experience over the past few months do a better job then hot without all the faff and expense of using hot.
Each to there own but I started with hot in one van and the difference was so noticeable I now have it in all my vans I certainly wouldn’t have spent what I have if there was little or no advantage , it saves us huge amounts of time on some jobs 50% saving , we do however do a lot of very salty costal stuff , we use hot all year round and adjust the temperature as required .
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So cold on its own is not as good as hot which ever way you are putting it across your opinion Chris is if you use cold you need chemicals to get the same results as hot water,if all the work you do is a 4 weekly- monthly flash over the glass then maybe but for longer durations between cleans then I don’t.
If you do anything near the coast I would say hot water is a must.
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Also not bothered by hot, makes absolutely no difference to my working day what so ever.
Each to their own.
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In general terms I don't think chems is needed for my work.
However I have a few jobs with triple and quadrupled patio/bifold doors with multiple snail trails - bee and spider poo - in spring/summer - I shall put a bottle in the van.
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So cold on its own is not as good as hot which ever way you are putting it across your opinion Chris is if you use cold you need chemicals to get the same results as hot water,if all the work you do is a 4 weekly- monthly flash over the glass then maybe but for longer durations between cleans then I don’t.
If you do anything near the coast I would say hot water is a must.
I would agree that if you live right on the coast that hot would be worthwhile, heat dissolves salt much easier. I don't live on the coast though.
Hot is slightly better then cold, I have said that and I'm not debating that, its just that using chemicals is better then hot and its cheaper. Using chemicals and hot together are absolutely amazing for big fascia cleans etc so its good to have that option. For general day to day window cleaning, cold and chemicals beats hot easily.
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I have always used cold, never felt the need for hot water as cold does what I want it to do
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Chems are great on first cleans but on maintenance it would waste more time than it saves.
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Chems are great on first cleans but on maintenance it would waste more time than it saves.
Quite often I don’t even use chems on gutters/fascias cleans. I find cold water does it just as well.
I do somtimes give them a light softwash first.
To be honest by the time I’ve faffed about spraying Chems about and setting it all up, I could be half way through the job with just water.
I definitely think window cleaners have a tendency to over complicate things.
Recently just fisnhed a massive complex of houses and apartments. Render, facias, soffits and windows. We didn’t use any chems on the facias/soffits and found cold water did the job with ease.
Obviously it depends how bad they are, but to be honest, even then, good old water will almost always work. Being that gutters are plastic, they usually clean up very easily.
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As I said its the long frequency between cleans that means windows are dirtier.
I don't use chemicals on every window, if its not to bad I crack on and clean as usual. I do alot of houses in leafy suburbs that I find are always covered in cobwebs, snail trails, fly poop etc and cold isn't hugely affective unless scrubbing the hell out of them. Chemicals cuts the scrubbing down massively and leaves a better finish, so I always carry a spray bottle on me.
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Thanks for the info Chris.
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I have always used cold, never felt the need for hot water as cold does what I want it to do
That's it in a nutshell Jay, I was one of the first wfp'ers in my area, back then it was the trad guys who were saying cold water wont clean windows, I suspect its those same guys now converted who still have it in their heads that it doesn't work, as long as its not my money they're wasting then good luck to them. ;D
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
There’s no reason at all, I always use customers water for facias etc, it’s a complete waste of pure if using it on gutters etc.
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
Not if the customers tap water is chalky...where I work the tap water is mixed with bore hole water and makes a right mess of the glass so pure only on plastics too....
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The little yellow fly spots that you get on the windows at this time of year takes ages to come off with cold if their on upper windows...baked on bird muck too.....
Hot for me all year round helps me splash and dash all my work whether its 4/6/8/12 weekly or once or twice a year....I virtually never use chemicals unless its egg on the windows or a very dirty plastics clean....
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
Not if the customers tap water is chalky...where I work the tap water is mixed with bore hole water and makes a right mess of the glass so pure only on plastics too....
Daz why on Earth would normal tap water make any difference to gutters or facias? I live in the second hardest water area in the whole country, and can tell you categorically it makes absolutely no difference. Why would it? It’s not a see through object. It’s plastic facias and gutters.
Of course you use pure for windows, isn’t that completely obvious? We’re windowscleaners, if we aren’t using pure for windows then there’s a problem between ones ears.
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
Not if the customers tap water is chalky...where I work the tap water is mixed with bore hole water and makes a right mess of the glass so pure only on plastics too....
Using Tap water in a hard water area on plastics can result in lime scale marks on the plastic and windows ware it runs down and splashes on them , we use pure for everything after I contaminated a conservatory roof doing what you are suggesting never again 😬😬😬
Daz why on Earth would normal tap water make any difference to gutters or facias? I live in the second hardest water area in the whole country, and can tell you categorically it makes absolutely no difference. Why would it? It’s not a see through object. It’s plastic facias and gutters.
Of course you use pure for windows, isn’t that completely obvious? We’re windowscleaners, if we aren’t using pure for windows then there’s a problem between ones ears.
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I use hot pure water for everything and chemicals very occasionally....windows,f/s/g jobs/conny roofs and solar panels....
Each to their own but I know what I prefer.....
Enjoy the match lads!👍😄
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I use hot pure water for everything and chemicals very occasionally....windows,f/s/g jobs/conny roofs and solar panels....
Each to their own but I know what I prefer.....
Enjoy the match lads!👍😄
I would be a little peeved if I had splashed out 5k for an all singing all dancing hot system, only to find I then have to splash out even more money on some poxy chemicals to shift some stubborn muck!
Isn’t that what the scalding hot water is meant to do?
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Hot will remove some items quicker - it depends on the stain - some marks may require chemicals as well - for example tiger stripes on upvc
It comes down to whether you feel 5 grand plus running costs are worth the small gain made
It’s like hypo - I have a guy that thinks this will remove everything - then I get a call saying he can’t clean the effervescence off a wall - what did you use - hypo! - no you need an acid cleaner
It’s simple really we need an assortment of techniques to cover the variety of problems and furthermore different people find different ways to solve a problem
Darran
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When you clean with hot water you will only have very few spots of water left on the glass to dry off,when you clean with cold in a lot of cases the windows are covered in spots of water that is yet to dry especially on hydrophobic glass and this is annoying to a lot of customers I have that have had a cold cleaner prior to me,
It’s horses for courses it’s no different to an electric hose reel why would you want to manually reel in all day,why would you want to use a heavier pole the same can be said for hot water why would you want to scrub and scrub birds 🦅 mess or have to spray a detergent on your brush head.
Hot water deep cleans PVC windows or similar the same for lead on a window each time you go back even if it’s a quarterly clean it’s way easier.
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hmmm - I like this "buzz" word deep cleaning
so Nigel what does it mean ?
Darran
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I’m not sure if you’d know what going deep means Darren but a real deep clean you know when you clear everything out of every crevice lol.
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IMO its not just that hot pure water removes the insect spots,baked on bird muck on frames and glass,sticky pollen,grass cuttings,leaves,snail trails easier.....also hot water gives a better flow to your brush,windows rinse easier and dry much quicker and much more manageable hoses all year round.....
you boys carry on with cold water if your happy with that....i really dont give a toss anymore..... :)
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There's no real need to use purified water on fascia's and so on, if possible use the customers tap water , that extra pressure makes all the difference.
Not if the customers tap water is chalky...where I work the tap water is mixed with bore hole water and makes a right mess of the glass so pure only on plastics too....
Daz why on Earth would normal tap water make any difference to gutters or facias? I live in the second hardest water area in the whole country, and can tell you categorically it makes absolutely no difference. Why would it? It’s not a see through object. It’s plastic facias and gutters.
Of course you use pure for windows, isn’t that completely obvious? We’re windowscleaners, if we aren’t using pure for windows then there’s a problem between ones ears.
the chalky deposits in the tap water make a mess of the glass when cleaning f/s/g jobs plus i like to use hot water on plastics too....it saves time fannying around plugging into customers outside taps with a separate length of hose....this means i can clean the windows at the same time without swapping water sources.....
i keep it simple these days...hot pure water for any cleaning i do whether its windows,plastics,conny roofs or solar panels.... :)
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Interesting Chris. Most who've gone over to hot have a dogged refusal to accept it was not worth the investment.
I've always thought this was down to it either being because it does a considerably better job or having to convince themselves it does because of the money they've invested. What hot system have you been using ? and what is your chosen chemical ?
I'm a cold user but may have had an interest in going hot at some point.
Mines an insulated immersion system from toolcraft. Before NHW says its an immersion so its not hot enough, I have it set to 70c and the water is so hot coming from the brush that I can't even hold my hand there for a second. Temp from brush 2 days ago was 59c.
It was around £1500 to purchase the system and my electric bill is about £60 more a month to use it. So around £12.50 a week. Not much but when you consider that brushes only last a few weeks now before there mangled as well as I cracked a window a while back costing about £150, it works out quite expensive.
If the benefits were truly great then I would say its worth the cost but as I said in my original post, cold and chemicals easily out perform it.
For chemicals I get them from a local supplier, the stuff is called Merlin extra heavy duty cleaner/degrease. Its the biz.
the best brushes for hot water cleaning are the stiff supreme brushes,they dont go out of shape and last 3 or 4 months easily,same with the stiff xtreme brushes although these will go out of shape within a few days its an easy fix(pour boiling water over them and theyll be like new again)i do this twice a week with the xtremes....
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IMO its not just that hot pure water removes the insect spots,baked on bird muck on frames and glass,sticky pollen,grass cuttings,leaves,snail trails easier.....also hot water gives a better flow to your brush,windows rinse easier and dry much quicker and much more manageable hoses all year round.....
you boys carry on with cold water if your happy with that....i really dont give a toss anymore..... :)
Dazmond, i agree with everything you have mentioned about the benefits of using Hot pure water, I've been using Hot for
over three years now, i live in Galway on the west coast Ireland, so being right by the sea, we get a lot of storms here, plus salt
on the glass, the hot water just eats through it, plus all the seagull crap we get too.
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IMO its not just that hot pure water removes the insect spots,baked on bird muck on frames and glass,sticky pollen,grass cuttings,leaves,snail trails easier.....also hot water gives a better flow to your brush,windows rinse easier and dry much quicker and much more manageable hoses all year round.....
you boys carry on with cold water if your happy with that....i really dont give a toss anymore..... :)
According to alot of stuff I have read online, hot water gives a better flow but cold water sheets better on surfaces.
Also using hot water on hot surfaces creates a higher chance of spotting as the water will evaporate much quicker and before all contaminants can run off.
I can honestly say daz that i did not notice hot removing snail trails any quicker then cold, windows do not rinse quicker especially in warm direct sunlight for the above reasons. In fact in very warm sunny days I dare you to inspect the bottom edge of the glass, look very closely and you can see the water dries too quick and leaves spotting along the bottom. I noticed this a few times, even when rinsing with a high flow and 0ppm water. It almost looked like dry steam marks.
I have been using cold again for 2 days now, yesterday on a big medical centre and today on a load of houses and have noticed no difference in speed, ease of cleaning, hoses were perfectly manageable and the finish was perfect. I know this because I cleaned the inside of the medical centre after doing the outside.
Im thinking more and more that the best water temp is actually just slightly warm, particularly as we agitate the surface with a brush, then hot is just not needed.
The temp currently in my tank is 20c, I'm thinking of just heating the water to around 35c in the tank as I think that is more then sufficient for what we need without the added faff of killing brushes, risk of cracking windows, spotting on hot days and very very cheap to do.
Ps I have the stiff supreme brush, it just feels awful on the glass plus its just too small for my liking. There just isn't enough choices in terms of brushes for hot water.
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we will just have to disagree then mate... ;D
IMO in terms of cleaning power,hot water is more beneficial in the warmer months because the water is very hot with no heat lost from the hose on the ground.... ironically enough the windows are dirtier in the summer months in regards to snail trails,bird muck,grass cuttings,insect spots,etc which very hot water helps remove far easier than cold water...
how can you say hot water doesnt help with snail trails?
as for spotting on the bottom part of the glass with hot water,i dont get this either....maybe i just rinse more on hot days
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we will just have to disagree then mate... ;D
IMO in terms of cleaning power,hot water is more beneficial in the warmer months because the water is very hot with no heat lost from the hose on the ground.... ironically enough the windows are dirtier in the summer months in regards to snail trails,bird muck,grass cuttings,insect spots,etc which very hot water helps remove far easier than cold water...
how can you say hot water doesnt help with snail trails?
as for spotting on the bottom part of the glass with hot water,i dont get this either....maybe i just rinse more on hot days
Or you're too splash and dash to check ;D
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IMO its not just that hot pure water removes the insect spots,baked on bird muck on frames and glass,sticky pollen,grass cuttings,leaves,snail trails easier.....also hot water gives a better flow to your brush,windows rinse easier and dry much quicker and much more manageable hoses all year round.....
you boys carry on with cold water if your happy with that....i really dont give a toss anymore..... :)
Yes you do, the thought that somebody can clean as quick and as good using cold makes you feel foolish, hence the need to invent non existing problems for the rest of us.
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we will just have to disagree then mate... ;D
IMO in terms of cleaning power,hot water is more beneficial in the warmer months because the water is very hot with no heat lost from the hose on the ground.... ironically enough the windows are dirtier in the summer months in regards to snail trails,bird muck,grass cuttings,insect spots,etc which very hot water helps remove far easier than cold water...
how can you say hot water doesnt help with snail trails?
as for spotting on the bottom part of the glass with hot water,i dont get this either....maybe i just rinse more on hot days
Because snail trails are so easily removed without it as is most bird muck and insect marks, as for the rest, luckily my customers aren't untidy enough to leave grass and muck on their windows until I show up, there's not a single video out there of a hot user putting the so called extra speed of hot to the test, I wonder why. ;D
Sorry NK did do a hot speed video but I think did more harm to the reputation of hot than good. ;D
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somebody's on form this morning ;D
go on bu@@er off and clean some windows - and let the hottie's continue their luv in ;D
Darran
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I think the only time most of us even think of hot water is in winter when the water is much colder. I tested my water temp regularly last winter and the coldest it got to was 6.7c. At that temp water does slightly loose its cleaning ability as its closer to freezing point so its thicker and a weaker solvent, meaning its more difficult to break down and carry dirt with it.
All that's needed though is to bring the water back up to a suitable temperature where it is as effective as it is in the summer, somewhere between 17c and 25c. You don't need to spend 4 or 5k to achieve those temps.
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I had immersion heater installed last year, used it every day in winter months purely to keep my hands and hose nice and warm personally I did think the snail trails disappeared slightly easier, I continue to use cold only until the weather gets very cold again then the immersion will be switched on again just for the comfort of warm hands and nice manageable hose.
Immersion heater is good value for money to keep van defrosted and for warm hands, but I wouldn’t pay the many thousands of pounds for water on demand but each to their own.
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles and electric reels do....every little helps...... 8)
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles and electric reels do....every little helps...... 8)
We're all barking, raving loonies daz. You and NWH are the only normal, sane people on here.
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When I purchased my first Grippa Tank system about 8 years ago I had Grippa bring a demo van out to one of the sites I clean.
My work is all commercial most monthly maintenance cleans.
I was in two minds to go hot or cold.The job they came out to was a regular monthly job.I demoed and cleaned some with cold and then another part with hot.
As nice as the hot system was it made no difference what so ever to speed or ease of cleaning or end result. The frost stat setting was a nice feature but for anything else for me it was just a very expensive pair of gloves.
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Never used hot,
I think it's a placebo.
I bought A turntable, i have a £600 streamer that is more efficient and can play 70 million tracks.
I've spent £2500.00 on vinyl during lockdown.
Is vinyl BETTER, Noooooo
Its A PLACEBO!!!!
OR Snake oil whichever metaphor u prefer 🙄
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Never used hot,
I think it's a placebo.
I bought A turntable, i have a £600 streamer that is more efficient and can play 70 million tracks.
I've spent £2500.00 on vinyl during lockdown.
Is vinyl BETTER, Noooooo
Its A PLACEBO!!!!
OR Snake oil whichever metaphor u prefer 🙄
Lol.
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles and electric reels do....every little helps...... 8)
We're all barking, raving loonies daz. You and NWH are the only normal, sane people on here.
;D
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles) and electric reels do, ...every little helps...... 8)
Always makes me laugh when I read about about people banging on about electric hose reels. I can honestly say that in 14yrs of reeling in hoses, I have only ever felt it hard work once, (and I'm no popeye) and that was the day after my 1st covid jab, I had to stop 3 times and knew it was time to go home. I don't use anything special, just the streamline blue hose reel. It's particularly funny coming from you Daz who goes to the bother of saving himself the tiny effort of reeling in a hose then goes down the gym and no doubt lifts heavy weights. ;D
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Never used hot,
I think it's a placebo.
I bought A turntable, i have a £600 streamer that is more efficient and can play 70 million tracks.
I've spent £2500.00 on vinyl during lockdown.
Is vinyl BETTER, Noooooo
Its A PLACEBO!!!!
OR Snake oil whichever metaphor u prefer 🙄
You've convinced me, no customer complaints and can clean as quickly as the hot users on here but if hot isn't a placebo then I must need it, you couldn't make it up. ;D
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles) ....every little helps...... 8)
Always makes me laugh when I read about about people banging on about electric hose reels. I can honestly say that in 14yrs of reeling in hoses, I have only ever felt it hard work once, and that was the day after my 1st covid jab, I had to stop 3 times and knew it was time to go home. I don't use anything special, just the streamline blue hose reel. It's particularly funny coming from you Daz who goes to the bother of saving himself the tiny effort of reeling in a hose then goes down the gym and no doubt lifts heavy weights. ;D
To be fair an electric reel does serve a purpose so its up to the person if they find the cost worth it, even using hot may benefit somebody working on the coast or in heavily wooded areas its just that most of the guys who bang on about hot on here do neither, this is why they have to invent nonsense to justify their spend.
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles) and electric reels do, ...every little helps...... 8)
Always makes me laugh when I read about about people banging on about electric hose reels. I can honestly say that in 14yrs of reeling in hoses, I have only ever felt it hard work once, (and I'm no popeye) and that was the day after my 1st covid jab, I had to stop 3 times and knew it was time to go home. I don't use anything special, just the streamline blue hose reel. It's particularly funny coming from you Daz who goes to the bother of saving himself the tiny effort of reeling in a hose then goes down the gym and no doubt lifts heavy weights. ;D
And after 15 years all of a sudden you might develop pain and wear in an area of your body ie lower back shoulder joint that you didn’t realise was being damaged from reeling in a piece of rubber every day,but like smoking you don’t think about it until you need a spittoon and can’t breath.
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any cold water wfp window cleaner who thinks removing insect spots,snail trails,bird muck on frames,etc is just as easy as using very hot water obviously has never used hot water for cleaning....it makes the job easier...just like xtreme poles) and electric reels do, ...every little helps...... 8)
Always makes me laugh when I read about about people banging on about electric hose reels. I can honestly say that in 14yrs of reeling in hoses, I have only ever felt it hard work once, (and I'm no popeye) and that was the day after my 1st covid jab, I had to stop 3 times and knew it was time to go home. I don't use anything special, just the streamline blue hose reel. It's particularly funny coming from you Daz who goes to the bother of saving himself the tiny effort of reeling in a hose then goes down the gym and no doubt lifts heavy weights. ;D
And after 15 years all of a sudden you might develop pain and wear in an area of your body ie lower back shoulder joint that you didn’t realise was being damaged from reeling in a piece of rubber every day,but like smoking you don’t think about it until you need a spittoon and can’t breath.
You could equally argue that the very mild workout from reeling in does you good, certainly less potential for injury than going down the gym. Aslong as the hose is free from snagging, you use a wet cloth in your left hand and don't go reeling in at a mad speed and use a decent hose reel, then it's very manageable. The big threat to repetative injury in this job comes from poling itself. Some people just feel they have to spend money. Spend it on a light pole if it's burning a hole in your pocket, you'll get far more benefit from it.
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I'm 66 yrs old and weigh about 10 stone I lift the reels in and hand wind them in, it doesn't bother me at all.
My missus who works with me and is 60 yrs old does the same without any trouble.
I find that bending down to reel in keeps you flexible, a lot or people my age can't squat low on their knees and lift them selves up without any bother.
It strengthens your spine and your legs it is like a workout after a day on the windows.
Better than driving to the gym to pedal on a machine or run on a treadmill why not just go for a run or a bike ride?
Making your life as easy and effortless as can be does not always pay off in the long run.
Just wait for the chickens to come home to roost with all these obese youngsters on electric bikes and scooters.
They are building up big problems for themselves as they advance in years.
Although to be fair we don't work as much as some of you on here.
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Reeling in isn’t an issue for most people try reeling all hose out to the drum on most jobs and then having to reel it in everytime,why do it lol you wouldn’t get the bus unless you had to would you I don’t know maybe you would you can give people advise till your blue in the face,are people that are saying manual reeling is better have they had an electric reel ? are people that say hot water is pointless again have they had a hot water system I think you’ll find most haven’t.
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Reeling in isn’t an issue for most people try reeling all hose out to the drum on most jobs and then having to reel it in everytime,why do it lol you wouldn’t get the bus unless you had to would you I don’t know maybe you would you can give people advise till your blue in the face,are people that are saying manual reeling is better have they had an electric reel ? are people that say hot water is pointless again have they had a hot water system I think you’ll find most haven’t.
More nonsense, there's a full post above by a person who used a hot water system telling you it made no difference, fact is most who say it is pointless have used it at one time or another, you use this same excuse every time a hot post comes on but never listen to the answer, time to bring out the green eyed monster as that's usually next on your list. ;D
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Sorry Nigel - you just never listen to the other side of the debate - nearly everyone says there is an advantage to hot - it varies on the type of work you do etc and probably how you actually clean windows on how beneficial it is - one big issue is that it’s not worth 5k plus ongoing costs for 99% on window cleaners
And I will add - the guys are not fussed with electric reels either they prefer to reel in manually…
Darran
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Ive gone from electric reels to manual and its more reliable no chain coming off hose getting trapped every 5 minits i find it easy reeling in 50m or less witch is 90 percent of my work. I have hot water but only use it when im in a bee pollen area or on sea front as using it for everything waste of money
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Here goes!
I spent under £200, Heatrod element, wiring, temp sensor in side of tank and a temp gauge on my control panel.
Costs me about £5 to run. 60/65 in tank temp,
35 ish at the brush head.
For me it’s great and that’s all that matters to me.
I don’t use it everyday but I quite often get first cleans and March Out cleans .
Performance wise I prefer it.
I use a flocked brush and the combination works really well on frames, snail trails etc.
One thing I did was to reduce my length of hose.
I never used anywhere near what was on my reel, I currently have just one job where I need to quickly attach my extension hose.
There were two benefits to doing this, easier reeling in and less strain on the reel and greater temperature at the brush head.
Boring I know!! Tanks insulated with 50mm polystyrene and still got good temp at finish time.
But cold does fine!
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Here goes!
I spent under £200, Heatrod element, wiring, temp sensor in side of tank and a temp gauge on my control panel.
Costs me about £5 to run. 60/65 in tank temp,
35 ish at the brush head.
For me it’s great and that’s all that matters to me.
I don’t use it everyday but I quite often get first cleans and March Out cleans .
Performance wise I prefer it.
I use a flocked brush and the combination works really well on frames, snail trails etc.
One thing I did was to reduce my length of hose.
I never used anywhere near what was on my reel, I currently have just one job where I need to quickly attach my extension hose.
There were two benefits to doing this, easier reeling in and less strain on the reel and greater temperature at the brush head.
Boring I know!! Tanks insulated with 50mm polystyrene and still got good temp at finish time.
But cold does fine!
Great post - very sensible and fair comments and all for £200
Darran
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Reeling in isn’t an issue for most people try reeling all hose out to the drum on most jobs and then having to reel it in everytime,why do it lol you wouldn’t get the bus unless you had to would you I don’t know maybe you would you can give people advise till your blue in the face,are people that are saying manual reeling is better have they had an electric reel ? are people that say hot water is pointless again have they had a hot water system I think you’ll find most haven’t.
Shouldn’t be a problem for you tho Nigel, don’t you only clean 4 or 5 mansions per day?
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Yeah an average of 5-6 got my Audi KS let me know when you’ve turned down the bed for me 😉
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ive been using cold water during the heatwave up until monday this week.....its nowhere near as easy to scrub the dirt off....lots of bird muck on frames/glass and little yellow insect spots galore as lots of work im cleaning this week is right next to farmers fields....
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ive been using cold water during the heatwave up until monday this week.....its nowhere near as easy to scrub the dirt off
You need to man-up then ya big poofter!
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When I purchased my first Grippa Tank system about 8 years ago I had Grippa bring a demo van out to one of the sites I clean.
My work is all commercial most monthly maintenance cleans.
I was in two minds to go hot or cold.The job they came out to was a regular monthly job.I demoed and cleaned some with cold and then another part with hot.
As nice as the hot system was it made no difference what so ever to speed or ease of cleaning or end result. The frost stat setting was a nice feature but for anything else for me it was just a very expensive pair of gloves.
I have used a cold system for a week and let me tell you on anything half dirty cold is rubbish,around half the jobs I’ve done once checked I had to go round again and give them another going over.
I have never seen so much spotting on the top 3-4” of a window in years since using cold for just over a week,I won’t be going cold anytime soon unless it’s the time of year when the sun goes down at around 2-30 in the afternoon.
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In that case you obviously have no idea how to clean windows.
A bad workman always blames his tools. You do know that don’t you?
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Sorry Slacky it’s reaffirmed to me m8 cold water does the job on already fairly clean windows,rubbish on anything dirty.
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When I purchased my first Grippa Tank system about 8 years ago I had Grippa bring a demo van out to one of the sites I clean.
My work is all commercial most monthly maintenance cleans.
I was in two minds to go hot or cold.The job they came out to was a regular monthly job.I demoed and cleaned some with cold and then another part with hot.
As nice as the hot system was it made no difference what so ever to speed or ease of cleaning or end result. The frost stat setting was a nice feature but for anything else for me it was just a very expensive pair of gloves.
I have used a cold system for a week and let me tell you on anything half dirty cold is rubbish,around half the jobs I’ve done once checked I had to go round again and give them another going over.
I have never seen so much spotting on the top 3-4” of a window in years since using cold for just over a week,I won’t be going cold anytime soon unless it’s the time of year when the sun goes down at around 2-30 in the afternoon.
And yet another post that says so much more about your own inadequacies than it does about cold/hot water.
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If you do a good enough job with cold you have to really make sure you put way more effort into scrubbing and rinsing the window,hot water eliminates this makes it far easier to do the job I’ve had no confidence in cold after seeing the results after drying runs and spots galore.
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I refer you to the post above yours Nigel
no more needs to be said
Darran
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Sorry Slacky it’s reaffirmed to me m8 cold water does the job on already fairly clean windows,rubbish on anything dirty.
Untrue.
However, you and Daz both twitter on about regular cleans simply being a splash and dash experience.
In which case, the only conclusion left to be drawn is that hot is unnecessary.
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I’m glad I’ve used cold for a week it’s made me realise how much better hot water cleans,I’ve been getting more spots than a teenager all week.
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I’m glad I’ve used cold for a week it’s made me realise how much better hot water cleans,I’ve been getting more spots than a teenager all week.
That's just down to being a very poor window cleaner, nothing to do with the
water. If the water is 000 TDS then it's Purely down to a poor or inexperienced operator- even more so on regular work!
Maybe you could tag along with another local cleaner who can bring you up to speed with knowledge and techniques? Show you how to do it properly. 👍
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Honestly m8 get up and look at some of the work you’ve done with cold water 1-2 floors up forget the ground we all scrub a bit more on the ground,I couldn’t believe how bad they’ve been especially on the hydrophobic stuff.
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I’ll try adding a bit of detergent tomorrow 🤣🤣🤣
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Honestly m8 get up and look at some of the work you’ve done with cold water 1-2 floors up forget the ground we all scrub a bit more on the ground,I couldn’t believe how bad they’ve been especially on the hydrophobic stuff.
I do just that on a regular basis. Hotels, office blocks etc inside and out and they're spotless.👍 no issues here pal.
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I won’t be going back to cold water anytime soon on my work I’ve missed the hot.