Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stevegunn on March 25, 2004, 09:13:21 pm
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What are you guys charging at present for stainguarding a suite i went out today and quoted £70 but the customer had been advised by mr slap & dash he would do it wait for it £12 :o
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Same price as you Steve £70.00, my Mr Splash and Dash used to advertise all items protected, I think he used AQUA, but recentley I asume that the Trading Standards have had word as his ad as changed from the one he has been using for the last 4 years.
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Steve,
£12 is not bad money for spraying a little water from a 1pnt triger sprayer ;)
I charge £70 - £85 presently.
John.
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3pce between £60-£80 but i dont get a lot..... Maybe i dont push it enough??!!
Anybody got any tips on selling protector?
Regards
Nick
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I charge £20 / Seat so 3 seater sofa and 2 armchairs + £ 100. Protector (Prochem Aqua seal £ 40). Just ask if they want it and sell the idea to them.
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I am at £60
But like you all I have a company in this area that cleans and protects for £45.
Does anyone know for a fact that they use water.
If not what are they using and where do they buy if from.
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Found these prices today from olympic cleaning
Upholstery Protection
To keep your upholstery looking new for longer
Prices as follows
3M
SCOTCHGARD CHEMSPEC
ENVIROSHIELD
Five Units £105.00 £105.00
Foot Stool £10.50 £10.50
Armchair £21.00 21.00
2 Armchairs £42.00 £42.00
One 2 Seater £42.00 £42.00
One 3 Seater £63.00 £63.00
One 4 Seater £84.00 £84.00
Minimum charge of £ 47.50 inc VAT
All above prices include VAT at 17.5 %
Prices as at 16/03/2001
Above prices quoted are for services undertaken within 35 miles of our offices, we would be happy to quote for other areas.
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Dont know where they pulled them prices from. 4X 5litre bottle of enviroshield (same as stainshield professional except in a different bottle) costs £228.50 + VAT ammassing to £268.48 This is ready to use allowing to do the job properly and covering ALL the suite .........Work out the profit margin for yourselves (i think there not doing it properly) 3 piece suite stainguarded correctly £150.00
Carpets Stainguarded properly £4.00 per square meter
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Dave
Are you offering guarantee for £150 ? and is anyone else for prices being quoted ?
I charge £80 for a new suite, but about half that if I clean it first, but no guarantee in either case.
I used to offer Stainguard guarantee from Stapro, until it went belly-up.
Bryan
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The guarantees are not worth jack unless you have them backed by an insurance company. I payed to have a leather suite protected 4 yr ago new £160-00 D.F.S. ( I Know ) When small print is read it covers nothing....... but when it was sold you dont see the guarantee as it arrives with suite.. When i was franchised the protector was backed by an insurance co. dont know if they still cover it... But same as above £100 new and £45 if ive just cleaned it as it is only 15 mins. work extra with no guarantee.
Regards
Steve
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No my clients get sold this product as a guard, they get told that they stainguard is not a total protection against stains, but it, in theory, places a barrier between the fibre and the stain, under no circumstances should this ever be sold as a 100% product, they also get told that this is not designed so they can clean spills and stains up themselves but they shoud allways call on a cc to take the stain out properly.
When they ask how long it lasts you should never give them a definate answer but instead tell them all the usuall bumf about foot traffic and wear and tear, and depends if they spill chemical on carpets and it reacts with the stainguard bladybladybla and so on, we work on the principle of never selling this to our customers but instead explain what it does and wait and see if they want it. tell them if they want a guarantee use scotchguard system as its mainly an insurance policy and they proberbly have cover on their house insurance anyway
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Dave
The Scotchgard system, as you called it, was originally backed by 3M financially but in the latter stages this was transfered to a specialist company similar to the ones used by other protection supply companies.
The original 3M warranty concept was excellent and profitable BUT it all went to pot when the application of product was extended to the retailer in line with the practice operated by Guardsman...
Believe it or not Guardsman had 87% of the post treatment market and to compete 3M had to go down this path.
Whilst 3M had the majority of the mill treatments... Guardsman supplied silicone treatments at the time and this could not be used in mill treatment operations.
I know for a fact the both companies suffered from poor application by retailers.
It has already been mentioned that the small print on the warranties meant that it was percieved to be of little value... much of this wording was a 'blanket' coverage...
e.g. It was found that if you came across chewing gum on a flock fabric and solvent was the logical way to remove it, the solvent, in turn, attacked the glue which held the tufts.
An exclusion was inserted into the warranty but it didn't differentiate between the fabrics as most consumers wouldn't know what a flock fabric was.
Cheers
Derek
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Derek,
Cheers for that every little learnt is a great asset.
I didnt know it was backed by 3m
I will bear that in mind for the future. You must however agree that alot of ccs do apply not enough to save costs as it is an expensive product to buy (a good one that is) in return for not applying it correctly they are doing more harm to themselves than good, it is no wonder that you hear the same remark over and over again "my friend had that done and it didnt work"
I would say generally that if this industry is to improve and get the proffessional back in front of all ccs then a lot of improvement is needed by the yee ha cowboy brigade.
Cheers Dave
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Dave
You are so right....
you only have to read some of the posts on the various forums to realise that many people within our industry do not fully understand protectors, how they work, their limitations and what to do if a spillage occurs.
We are our own worst enemy often in more ways than applying a protector.
It is my belief that very few members of the public, our customers, know what a clean carpet is... many accept a 'perception' of clean ...
I suppose I have put my foot in it again with a statement like that ...but if it stimulates a good debate then so be it
Regards
Derek
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Dave
It is my belief that very few members of the public, our customers, know what a clean carpet is... many accept a 'perception' of clean ...
Regards
Derek
Too true !
On many occasions, during the pre-vac with a macine that the client does not recognise as a vacuum cleaner, first-time customers have said "Isn't it comming up well?". They are then surprised when I tell them this is only stage one.
The same thing often occurs after agitation with the Host machine. In both cases I could take the money and go, leaving a satisfied customer.
These are poeple who lack any proper yardstick by which to judge the results.
I occurs to me that there are, in all probability an unknown number of CCs who are in much the same boat and splash away, maybe for a matter of years, thinking they are doing a good job, when in reality their standards are set too low.
Regards,
John.
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John,
Couldnt agree more. Not too long ago I saw a high priced TM operator clean an expensive beige twist pile carpet. For the money he was charging you would think he would have had at least a little interest in what he was doing. It didnt look like it to me. He literally, did a quick prespray ( catching the wooden furniture as he did - and not bothering to wipe off) followed by a quick rinse off. No second vac only stroke and no special attention to traffic lanes and sit areas etc. He just mentioned that he had been trying to waste time as he didnt want to seem Too Quick - given what it was costing them. He thought he was doing a good job, though he admitted he had never seen anyone elses work. I dont think he was on the right track to build up a good repeat business, more likely inevetable eventual doom.
Dave.
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Dave
So you have seen my work, wouldn’t you charge that knowing I have to drive 250.8miles 3.51 hours and fuel £31.43? ;D
John I take it that your vac is a Henry and the customers is Dyson ???
Derek, John & Dave
Joking apart No argument for me
Len
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Hi Guys
Thanks for being kind to me ...I thought I was the only one with this idea.
The operator with the largest piece of equipment doesn't necessarily produce the best performance. ;) ;D (make of that what you will)
I honestly believe that most of us would welcome the opportunity to see other cleaners in action and assess the results of their efforts... not in a critical way but to see which techniques (the key phrase) perform the best.
I think ALL would benefit from such an experience.
Regards
Derek
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Sorry Derek
I'm pretty broad minded....but no way is anyone watching me in action :o
Blimey...and then you want to copy my best techniques :o ::)
I can suggest some reading material if it helps :P ;D
Les ;)
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Les
I do understand and Yes, I suppose we would all feel that way to some degree...
BUT it is only like sharing techniques/experiences over the Forum.
Others may have 'secret' techniques too
Cheers
Derek
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Uhmm Derek,
I was being 'Suggestive' Nod Nod Wink Wink, No wot I mean ;) Watching me in Action...Stealing my best Techniques..Penny dropped yet? ;D
Oh well that's another comedy script for the bin ;)
Les
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A few years ago I was spotting a suite in an upmarket furniture store in the west Midlands.
A spotty youth was pumping up a sprayer with protector in it to do a suite. The manager came across and asked if he had finished yet. The youth said he was just going to spray it when the manager told him to give him the spray. 'This is how to do it ' he said as he waved the spray at the suite. 20 seconds and it was finsihed 'come on he said Down to the pub.'
Good £120 worth!
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Les
You made a very relevant point.....
Trevor
I think your manager came to a store here in Leicester ...this particular guy I refer to sprayed a three piece suite with his overcoat and briefcase in the other hand.
Cheers
Derek
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I don't want to get into 'dogging' but I wouldn't mind seeing an old master (no offence intended)like Derek at work.
Shaun
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Hi Lads
Just goes to show....THINK what your all saying. Nobody is selling or showing the department stores (i.e Furniture stores) how to spray protector plus sell it. What a lot of Business is out there just waiting for us. Just think £125.00/£150.00 per suite,per private hosehold.And £75.00/£85.00 per suite to the stores I bet you would ALL like just a couple of these a week.
Most of the customers have household Insurance new for old polices so they are covered
Happy selling ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and happy spraying.
Think Clean and Spray(protect)
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Kevin
When 3M were in the protection market dealing with retailers.... the retailers were visited on a regular basis (every three months) by designated members of the Scotchcare network to train the in-store staff.
During the visit a numbrer of items of furniture were selected and tested at ramdom... I hate to say this but many failed.
Derek
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I am almost done going through these posts so maybe soon I will stop posting such old posts..... Anyway I have to make a comment on the pricing, not all the nonsense of what is or isnt covered as that is a different subject.... When I clean and protect any fabric be it carpet, upholstery, walls, stone etcetera then I charge the same for both, what ever the clean is then so is the sealant/protector. I know a few people will freak at that but if you are to follow up with spot cleaning or the like then shouldnt you be covered for that. Indeed we may say we are going back for free but bxxxxr that, I make sure I get paid for everything that I do. As the two prices combined can be quite high, if it gets too high then I offer to pay the Vat so that becomes their discount, other than that see above. To note, if we charge whatever we do for the cleaning and the chemicals cost next to nothing, why would you not charge more than the cleaning was to protect???? For what its worth, when I lived and worked in California most if not all respectable cleaners charged the same to protect as they did to clean...... I still do, best, Dave.
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Derek
Your right. There are some of us who more or less know which retailer hardly even bother to protect their suites. Its criminal but the retailer just thinks, oh what the hell - it's expensive to buy, wastes time when you could be selling, suites have to be left to dry properly - then re-wrapped, and in anycase the insurance company can sort it out if need be.
It's so wrong as it is usually mis-sold too, the custy is paying good money for something they aint getting.
I know of a good independent retailer who have a dedicated room sealed off to protect their suites - done properly, as opposed to a quick spray (if at all) in a windy warehouse!
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all i would say is think about the long term value of your customer, i charge 35.00 to protect a suite and have no come back sin ten years and nearly every customer has it done regardless of whether they know how it works or not, just give good value for money and your customers will be loyal and think about ripping them off
regards
steve
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sorry that should read don't think about ripping them off ;D
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Steve, I think I understand what you are saying in the last sentance but my point was and is..........on your figures of 35 for a suite, it costs you 10 or 12 to do it so how is that good value for money. Thats 1 to 2 chemical to charge costs or close too. If thats the case we should be cleaning 1000 sq ft of carpet for 7 or 8 quid. I know each to their own. May I ask what you would charge to clean the suite you protected for 35?, Best, Dave.
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Dave.
It depends on how good you are at selling.
And how much faith the Customer has in the Cleaner.
For some reason people have Faith in their Funiture Shop and pay £150
Perhaps we should all go and buy a Suite see how protection is sold and then suffer Buyers Remorse and Cancel.
I do think the supply companies ALLTEC Prochem etc could supply a DVD for say £15 promoting protection for playing on Laptop in Customers home.
They would see rheir sales rocket.
But they donot appear to be interested.
I think Prochem charge £95 and sell very few. If this statement is wrong they are more than welcome to challenge me.
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Ian, excellent comment on all accounts. Funny how our customers listen to the people who dont know our business and tend not to listen to us...... I spoke with Alltec about promoting protection but sadly it fell on deaf ears. ....... and I use about 24 gallons of the stuff in a good month. Again funny how we can all sell carpet cleaning but sometimes struggle in selling our other services. I am spoiled and well aware of it as I dont need to sell anything to "the customer"as it has already been done for me............ Back to the suppliers and the promotional bumpf, GIVE THE STUFF OUT FOR FREE, I mean they want you to clean a room for free to get the rest of the house, welllllll, best, Dave.
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good IDEA, Lasttime I asked Alltec had no leaflets to buy yet alone Give away ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think Capeteast Babara and Alan asked aswell.
you have to do an Awesome job to get the FREE FRRE room to work.
JP told me last night he is updating his material this year AWESOME
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Before deciding on what figure you are going to charge the customer for a protection treatment please do check the cost of the product being applied.
Many years ago the actual cost of a 'correctly applied protection treatment' was well in access of twenty pounds. You then have to consider your own costs not forgetting a margin of profit.
3M did supply a video of a protection treatment which did work to as degree.
The problem with promotional video's they do tend to give too good an impression to the customer and raise their expectations beyond reality
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Dave,
i normally charge around £80 to clean a suite and i'm not advocating cheap prices, but if i turn up to do a suite i normally always go away with £120 and i reason that if i have the protector there on the truck and it takes a short time to do, i'd rather be doing that than just 1 or 2 every now and then
Surely if you protecting nearly every suite you clean your making more money in the long run than trying the hard sell at £150 and getting 1 or 2?
I know in my area if people were getting to the point where they pay £150 for a clean and £150 for the protector they'd think about buying a new suite, there must be a cut off point where people wont pay it?
regards
steve
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prochem sell leaflets outlining the benifits of there protector, im buying some, and the next time custy asks about stain shield ill give them one to read while i clean there carpets ;D
hopfully it will do the selling for me.
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Have to agree with steverjc
although it depends on where you live and what sort of customers your serving, i understand liahona only services top end.
But if you service mr & mrs average like most of us, £300 to clean and protect?
Its not value for money if the suites worth under £1000, they might as well drag it out another year and buy a new suite
i wouldnt spend £500-£600 on somthing and pay £300 for its upkeep, would you?
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Have to ask, since i have never protected a carpet or suite before myself
How much would it cost us to protect 5 seater suite (chemicalls)?
How long would that take?
How much would it cost us to protect average lounge (chemicalls)?
How long would that take?
Thanks
Daniel
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I understand and to a point agree with all that has been said. I also understand that half a loaf of bread is better than no bread at all.... Well done Prochem, selling us something they should be giving away.....just my opinion...... Daniel, to vague a question as to many variables. Type of fabric being the biggest concern, leather, cotton, silk rayon, bird feathers, tapestries etcetera.....doesnt take long.....what is an average lounge, 300 square feet or 2000?...also doesnt take long but longer then most think if applied correctly.... are the chemicals water based, oil based, solvent based or even still silicone based???? I get my "stuff"to protect from the staes but I think most solvent protectors are 40 to 50 quid a gallon but you will have to ask someone else on here who does protection. There is a chemical supplier out there that do a very good protector but it is 375 pounds plus the dreaded Vat for 20 litres, expensive but very good. I always use solvent based chemicals to protect with but water based ones are quite a bit less expensive..... Hope this helps a bit although I am sure it doesnt, best, Dave.
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Hi Dave (Liahona)
Thanks for your reply
Thats why i have used the word (average) i doubt a average protect would be on bird feathers, or silk
I mean for a typical washable fabric, like a everyday carpet or suite manmade or natural.
Also i understand there are different types of protecter oil, water, solvent and allthough i have no idea of cost i guess some are dearer than others, again the word "average" comes into play, if the cheapest is £2 a metre and the dearest £4 a metre then £3 would be a average.
If anyone could give me a idea it would be apreciated as i have never pushed this service myself (purely because i know nothing about it) and have actually been asked a couple times to do it and just fobbed the customer of.
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A different angle;
I asked the question before about whether or not you dried a suite after cleaning it, and the majority it seems do, or do if only in the colder months.
So if you have cleaned a suite, and have then sprayed it with fabric protector, it's obviously wetter, so my question is do you then dry it after protector is applied, or do you leave it to dry naturally?
If you do dry after a normal clean anyway, and the drying is an extra ammount, obviously you need to charge a fair bit to cover the drying after fabric protector has been applied.
Dave
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Red
Where i live, i pay around £14 a gallon for craftex carpet / upholstery treatment. On a carpet with normal absorbtion it will cover 28 metres square, or about half a gallon to do a normal suite. Work out your profit from this.
Apparantly last year there was a problem with a well known branded product, and the guys who use it, were buying the craftex product to pass off as this. So is one as good as another?
Do Extracta still sell the dilutable one which you add water to?
Dave
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I dont dry suites or carpets as the turbo dryer ways a ton. (and i really dont wanna get it out the van)
But somthing thats worth doing.
Ask your customers if they want it drying?
I find prob 1 in 2-3-4 do then offer the loan of the dryer for £20 and you pick it up the next day.
if you work a 5 day week, doing a couple jobs a day, thats £100 a week extra for nothing.
And if you work a tight area your gona pass them the next day anyway.
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So £7 a suite, How long would that take you to do Dave?
Myself i dont like the idea of any dilutable products, that way if it dont work they can allways blame you for messing it up.
If its ready to use you cant go wrong, if it dont work you change supplier.
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Always advise that protector may slightly alter the texture a little bit.
Dave
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Red Carpet. I dont know of any customer that would want the cleaned textile whatever that may be left wet. If you use the heavy turbo to dry you are suggesting and indeed offering a better service. Although a good idea in theory with regards the leaving of the airmover, not always practical...... try this, elevate your charges by 20 pounds and to the same customers on your scenario you would make an extra 200 a week by just being a better cleaner and not have to go back the next day.... Again your theory is very good but is it cost effective to go back the next day to two jobs maybe???? I go back to almost all my jobs the next day or two anyway but I dont work two days in a row so the time involved isnt a problem for me. Whatever you, me or whoever does that is a little bit "better" than your so say competition then two things happen, you look better and most important you can charge more. I charge more for what I do purely because all my hoses are wrapped, well at least the ones inside the property are. Worth a thought....... Oh and the same as you, I wouldnt use a chemical to protect that you had to mix.... its one thing to use the glug glug method to pre-spray and clean but a totally different matter when protecting..... most solvent protectors work the same isnt for water based ones. Best, Dave.
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I would say that on average I will protect about 1 in 4 of the suites I clean and generally charge £65 - £75 for it. Protection on carpets is a lower hit rate, and I generally charge the same again as it cost to clean it (£45 to clean, therfore £45 to protect, makes life easy!)
For demonstration I always have a sample of material and carpet in the van, half of it has been protected and half is normal. Demonstrate by getting some water and splash it all over, hey presto the water soaks straight into the unprotected half whilst is just runs off the other half!! WOW they all say!!
I always use Extracta Stainguard XP solvent based protector, they do supply a water based one which dilutes down to 1:5, but I prefer the solvent one as it dries quicker and performs better, costs £33.60+vat for 5 ltrs.
With a good double pass application using a power spraver and fine nozzle you should get at least two suites done from a container. Always tell the customer that it is not 100% protection, but is designed to give them time to go to the kitchen to get a towel and blot up any spills before they penetrate the material.
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Dave (liahona)
When you say wrap hoses, what do you mean exactly? Do you use a tm or portable?
Dave (Spot On)
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Dave, I have a portable which I use for upholstery mainly... Other than that I use a truck mount..... I clean some what larger than "normal" properties and for obvious reasons a truck mount is used..... I use dust sheets, good heavy ones, cut them up and then make 50 foot long sleeves or socks or whatever you may call them. Then where they join at the qd's I tie towels around that joint. Takes a while to put on and off but again I charge a little higher than most people do. Best, Dave.
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Dave
I also use a tm, but only put towels around where the pipes are likely to mark corners and on stairs.
I thought about making some [padded nylon ones with velcro for speed. I suppose anything that commands a higher price is good for business.
Dave
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It's this attention to detail that impresses the customer, but as you first stated a while back that you are in a well over average place for good spenders although there will always be in every area a good fraternity that will regularly pay the better end of prices it's just finding them and keeping them coming back!
I would say that it's not about the cleaning (as we all should be good at that) but the care you put into your work and the way that you talk to the home owner or purchasing body.
It's the little things that can have the biggest impact.
Shaun
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Evenin' all.
Reading through this topic I notice people seem to be charging what, to the consumer, might appear high rates for stain protection so I can't figure that much stain protecting is going on (an incidental rather than a daily sale). Just a thought, but what I do is charge a lot for the cleaning and do it exhaustively and then charge a little more for the stain protection. In essence the cleaning cost pretty much covers the application of stain protection (without actually doing it) - if the client chooses to have stain protection then it is applied, groomed in and dried for what the client feels is a cheap price.
Carpet cleaning... Restoration clean £5 Msq. ... including protection £6 Msq. Upholstery cleaning...£35 per seating unit ... including stain protection £40 per seating unit.
Dave, what do you think of these prices, I think you're in my ball park price wise.
Gotta say, I've never trained for stain protection. I figure 'go with the likes of reputable companies like Prochem, Chemspec, CFR etc' for stain protector and apply it with the attitude that you are providing a top quality service.
What's consider 'top gear' in this field then and what's it costing to apply?
Alan
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Price wise I dont like to say anymore because it usually causes a riot but here goes anyway. Under normal circumstances I charge a pound a square foot to clean and then also a pound a square foot to protect, however and please note that when I clean again I do not charge for the protection although in all cases I do apply it. As for upholstery and again under normal circumstances I charge 25 pounds a linear foot to clean and 15 pounds a linear foot to protect. I know to most these are high prices but my market is to carpets costing upwards of 250 pounds a square yard and upholstery in comparison the same type of prices. For what it is worth I get the majority of my work through designers and or personal assistants to the house owners so I dont have to sell to anyone, although of course to the designers originaly...... In most cases but not all the designers charge the customer and put their mark up on my invoice to them. I have two designers who double what I invoice for so, easy figures, 4 pounds a square foot, it does go to show that there are people who are willing to pay what I think we should all be charging, at least to the higher end, I appreciate this market is limited but still on the whole we under charge our services. I am sure I will get flack for this post but for those who know what I do and who I do it for also know this is accurate in statement.
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Alan, one last question, I understand how and why you charge the extra pound for protection so my question is, when you protect brand new carpet, how do you charge as I am sure it wouldnt be a pound a square meter???? Best, Dave.
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£2.50 Msq. Got to be honest - I really can't remember the last time I went to site for the sole purpose of stain protection. Guess I need to work on my marketing on that one. ;)
Alan
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Its a good market to hit too. That way not only do you get the protection but ..........you will then get to clean protected carpets making your life so much easier.....Where are you by the way? Best, Dave.
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Alan,
I do something pretty similiar to you protection wise and the reason being as i said before is that i end up doing protector on nearly everything i clean and come away with more money from each customer, it just works for me ;D
cheers for the carpet blower it arrived safely and is brill, 8)
regards
steve
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Good. Glad you've found a use for it. I took the brave step of ditching ALL of my blowers because using the cfr tools with ashby's v2 leaves items dry as quickly as using normal tools and a blower ;D.
Dave, Croydon, South London.