Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Chris Fox on June 01, 2021, 08:38:59 pm
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Hey there!
I would like to connect with Window Cleaning business owners and ask them about the really painful problems they face. My intention is to build a business around real problems instead of guess work. I'm also really interested to hear what software/tools/apps you use in your business and what you do and don't like about them.
I'm a software engineer and have been building Web and Mobile apps for the last decade. I'm looking at building an App that will be used by both Window Cleaning professionals as well as their clients. I have all the tech skills it takes and have identified a gap after a need I have as a client has not been met.
My hope is to be able to bring some Window cleaning business owners along on this journey and build an app that can help improve efficiencies and increase business.
If you could spare some time and knowledge with me, it would be greatly appreciated, I have some ideas how I could return the favor so please reach out to me.
Look forward to hearing from everyone.
Thanks
Chris
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Hello Chris
I use e-clean app for my work to be signed off by the lads, all regular work can be put on scheduled and it also has a manual sign off for anything that might come along on the day. It is set up for me to get an email each time a job is signed off, it has a gps location that only allows u to sign off scheduled work if u are within 30 meters or so of the set location and has the add picture to the sign off document if I do choose.
I pay a monthly subscription based on the amount of users we have but it’s all round a good app for what we do
Best of luck
Matt
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Hello Chris
I use e-clean app for my work to be signed off by the lads, all regular work can be put on scheduled and it also has a manual sign off for anything that might come along on the day. It is set up for me to get an email each time a job is signed off, it has a gps location that only allows u to sign off scheduled work if u are within 30 meters or so of the set location and has the add picture to the sign off document if I do choose.
I pay a monthly subscription based on the amount of users we have but it’s all round a good app for what we do
Best of luck
Matt
Hi Matt,
Appreciate you taking the time to share your experience with e-clean, it sounds great and I've added it to my list of "Competitors" of which there are quite a few :) Nothing like a bit of healthy competition to drive innovation and affordability.
Out of interest, the sort of jobs you are referring to that get "Signed-off" is this commercial and residential work? It's interesting because I guess the two types of work could have slightly different feature requirements.
Would be great to reach out to you once we have our first version ready and give you a demo, if you open to that.
Cheers
Chris
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I have all the tech skills it takes and have identified a gap after a need I have as a client has not been met.
Hi Chris.
Could you give a little more detail on the specifics here that you're referring to please?
Thanks.
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Probably a bit late to the party IMO. Round software has come on leaps and bounds the past 3 years or so, with cleanerplanner, aworka and squeegee all offering a great service for not a massive cost to the end user.
I’m a squeegee user myself and there is literally nothing that I could add to improve the app for myself.
Good luck all the same.
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I have all the tech skills it takes and have identified a gap after a need I have as a client has not been met.
Hi Chris.
Could you give a little more detail on the specifics here that you're referring to please?
Thanks.
probably the type of custy you dont need . For a start off calls himself a client . Let me guess , you want your windows cleaned on a certain day . At a certain time . Or your window cleaner asked for last month’s payment as it was still owing . But you are sure , you paid him , or maybe not .
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I may be barking up the wrong tree here, and if so I apologise. But I get the distinct feeling you may be trying to create a kind of gig economy thing and tailor it to window cleaning.
What I mean is, you may be trying to develop an app that connects customers to window cleaners in an “on demand” type of way. Eg a customer uses your app to book a service from a local window cleaner. Window cleaner turns up, cleans and leaves. Payment is processed through app etc etc.
If so, let me save you the bother. There have been a few people who have popped up and tried this in the past and it has never worked, and will never work, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, window cleaners do not want nor need it.
We don’t want random one-off jobs dotted around the town.
We don’t want to be “booked” in to do a clean on a certain day or time.
We don’t need payment processing, almost all window cleaners use faster payment or some type of direct debit system such as go cardless.
We don’t need to compete with other window cleaners for jobs in the same way that builders might compete for a job on mybuilder etc. Similarly we don’t want to be “rated” by customers as this is a notoriously unfair and arbitrary thing that causes lots of problems for even the best window cleaners. (Just try to get a vindictive google rating or review removed. It’s almost impossible. We certainly don’t want more of that)
Good window cleaners have a limited number of regular customers concentrated in specific geographical areas. We are not constantly looking for extra jobs the same way a plasterer or decorator etc would be.
There are literally no benefits at all for window cleaners to work this way.
And lastly, customers don’t want it. They don’t care enough about window cleaning to download an app to find one or even to manage the service they get from their existing one. They don’t want to pay their existing window cleaner through an app. It’s a complete non-starter.
You say you came to this after a need you had was not met. This tells you everything you need to know. The fact is there is way more demand for good window cleaners than there is supply. We don’t need any help being connected with potential customers, and we certainly don’t want or need our service to be gigified.
Every now and then some guy pops up trying to do this saying “I can help you get more clients, take payments “ etc etc. That moron from osha clean was the last one, I think (and hope) he went bankrupt. Strangely enough, he had the idea when he too couldn’t get a window cleaner himself.
It always amounts to basically the same thing, someone who knows nothing about this business who thinks they are going to make some kind of unnecessary platform and cream off 10% of the fee from our work for doing basically nothing.
My advice to you (and I genuinely mean this with your interest at heart) don’t bother trying to do this, there’s just no way window cleaners nor customers would want it. Others have tried and found out the hard way that it will never work for window cleaning.
On the other hand, if this is not what you had in mind, and you’re intention is to make a scheduling app, well that’s different! Go for it. There are a few out there, I use CleanerPlanner myself (which is excellent but stagnant) but I would certainly like other options!
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Hi Chris.
Could you give a little more detail on the specifics here that you're referring to please?
Thanks.
Hi, yeah sure can, so here are a few features that we are working on.
Client App/Portal - This allows customers to view a simple report showing jobs done and their paid status
OpenBanking Integration which updates the job status automatically when payments land in your bank account.
Accounting system integration into Quickbooks (And other systems down the line)
Mobile phone SMS messaging via the App
Needless to say all the existing core features that you would expect to see in other Apps are being built first.
The main reasons I am engaging with the community is to ensure our development roadmap is being driven by the needs of our users rather than assumptions made by us. That said, I'm open to feature requests!
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Probably a bit late to the party IMO. Round software has come on leaps and bounds the past 3 years or so, with cleanerplanner, aworka and squeegee all offering a great service for not a massive cost to the end user.
Thanks for the mention of Round software, been searching for this and was unable to find it, do you perhaps have a link to their website?
I’m a squeegee user myself and there is literally nothing that I could add to improve the app for myself.
Great to hear, they would probably love a testimonial from you! I know first hand what goes into building software that reaches this level of praise, so hats off to them for doing that!
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probably the type of custy you dont need . For a start off calls himself a client . Let me guess , you want your windows cleaned on a certain day . At a certain time . Or your window cleaner asked for last month’s payment as it was still owing . But you are sure , you paid him , or maybe not .
Hi Steven,
Yeah, I agree with you "Client" sounds a little poncy! :) fortunately the words "Client" and "Customer" are often used interchangeably with "Customer" normally being used to refer to someone making a once-off purchase of a product and "Client" normally being used to refer to someone who is loyal and makes repeat purchases for a service rather than a product. I had to Google this to confirm! :)
Anyway, to your other points, as a "Customer" I think those are nice to have's and reasonable features, that said, I can understand why many Window Cleaners would not want to do this, so point taken.
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I may be barking up the wrong tree here, and if so I apologise. But I get the distinct feeling you may be trying to create a kind of gig economy thing and tailor it to window cleaning.
Hi Pete,
Firstly thanks for taking the time to give your in-depth feedback, you raise some really good points, most of which I completely agree with. I must be honest as a software engineer, passionate about what technology can do to disrupt industries, its easy to get carried away with ideas that in reality just don't make sense for certain industries. My reasons for engaging with professionals like yourself in this industry is to make sure that I don't go down that rabbit hole. Some thought was given to an "On-demand" idea as a possible add on feature, but that was quickly scrapped and is certainly not the direction I am going with this product.
On the other hand, if this is not what you had in mind, and you’re intention is to make a scheduling app, well that’s different! Go for it. There are a few out there, I use CleanerPlanner myself (which is excellent but stagnant) but I would certainly like other options!
This is exactly what I am doing and I am so glad you ended off with that paragraph, as reading through your post, I must admit I was starting to get a little despondent. My focus is to evolve this software by getting feedback and guidance from its potential future users while at the same time creating healthy competition in the space, as this drives innovation and affordability. I have a great team to do this and am consulting with some amazing professionals in your industry who are excited about being involved in a project that they can have a direct influence over. It would be great to have the chance to reach out to you again further down the road and get your thoughts on what we have built.
Thanks again for your honest feedback.
Chris
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Is this you Chris?
https://www.workmobileforms.com
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I can understand why people would want to use a software product to organise work but you can’t beat looking in the old diary some days and picking out some cream here and there,especially when it’s late 20s weather and you fancy an afternoon on the sun lounger I can’t think of anything worse personally than looking at a phone or laptop telling me where I’m going today.
You shouldn’t need anything like this until you are at the dizzy heights of 3 x the Vat threshold tbh unless you’ve 100s of small jobs.
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Is this you Chris?
https://www.workmobileforms.com
No, not me, we still in the process of coming up with a memorable company name! (Open to ideas) :)
Will take a look at these guys, looks interesting.
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I can understand why people would want to use a software product to organise work but you can’t beat looking in the old diary some days and picking out some cream here and there,especially when it’s late 20s weather and you fancy an afternoon on the sun lounger I can’t think of anything worse personally than looking at a phone or laptop telling me where I’m going today.
You shouldn’t need anything like this until you are at the dizzy heights of 3 x the Vat threshold tbh unless you’ve 100s of small jobs.
As they say, "Horses for Courses"! With all this glorious weather we having at the moment, I'd also like to be out there on the sun lounger! 8)
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Hey there!
I would like to connect with Window Cleaning business owners and ask them about the really painful problems they face. My intention is to build a business around real problems instead of guess work. I'm also really interested to hear what software/tools/apps you use in your business and what you do and don't like about them.
I'm a software engineer and have been building Web and Mobile apps for the last decade. I'm looking at building an App that will be used by both Window Cleaning professionals as well as their clients. I have all the tech skills it takes and have identified a gap after a need I have as a client has not been met.
My hope is to be able to bring some Window cleaning business owners along on this journey and build an app that can help improve efficiencies and increase business.
If you could spare some time and knowledge with me, it would be greatly appreciated, I have some ideas how I could return the favor so please reach out to me.
Look forward to hearing from everyone.
Thanks
Chris
I use Cleaner Planner and would like to be able to add photos to job notes and for the cleaner to be able to upload photos as well.
We no longer have a window cleaning round, but we still use the software.
The way I put photos on job notes is to make a Dropbox folder, Right click > Copy Dropbox Link > then I add the following code and replace the ?dl=0 with ?raw=1.
<a href="LINK HERE"><span style="color: red;"><strong>See photos here</strong></span>[/url]
This works well, but it's just a pain to set up each time, plus I have thousands of job folders in Dropbox and it would be much easier to have the photos within Cleaner Planner. It would be nice to upload other documents as well like Tender Documents and PO letters within the software.
I really want everything in one place and would be happy to pay for it.
Most window cleaners probably wouldn't need this but other cleaning / facilities companies would find it handy.
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Also incorporating Timetastic in the software would be amazing, plus timesheets,
There are a lot of software options out there with the features I've said but they don't have the drop and drag diary, which I rely on, so I'm still with CP.
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I use Cleaner Planner and would like to be able to add photos to job notes and for the cleaner to be able to upload photos as well...
This is a great idea and exactly the sort of thing I am looking for, so thank you. Such a simple thing to build, so I will make sure we incorporate this on our roadmap. You'll be the first to know when it's ready to demo :) Interested to know what your reasons are for uploading photos to job notes and what sort of jobs you work on as it sounds like you no longer do residential window cleaning.
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Also incorporating Timetastic in the software would be amazing, plus timesheets,
There are a lot of software options out there with the features I've said but they don't have the drop and drag diary, which I rely on, so I'm still with CP.
Another great idea, thank you! There is so much scope to bring all these great features from different software providers into a single system that does it all. There is also a bit of a fine line between what we try build ourselves vs who we can integrate with. For example, building a great bookkeeping and accounting system is not a trivial task, so building that from the ground up would be questionable. However automating the sharing of data between our app and ones like Quickbooks is most likely the direction we are going in.
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Gone are the days of going into a Personal Computer shop and simply buying a program you want there and then and owning it outright how you please. Nowadays you can rent the same programs but you have to keep paying a subscription to borrow them.
Even buying houses nowadays on new modern estates are being sold the same way. You can buy the house but the land it comes with is leasehold so you never own the land, just rent it.
I'm old school, like to buy something outright and own it. Don't wish to rent something and pay forever to use it. Mortgage paid, debt free and like to remain that way being forced to budget for expenses to obtain what I want, when I want without worrying about debt by being cautious with money . That's how old school people are where as new kids on the block, pile up the debt, worry about it tomorrow and never lay foundations for a long term plan to get where they aim to achieve.
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I'm old school, like to buy something outright and own it. Don't wish to rent something and pay forever to use it. Mortgage paid, debt free and like to remain that way being forced to budget for expenses to obtain what I want, when I want without worrying about debt by being cautious with money . That's how old school people are where as new kids on the block, pile up the debt, worry about it tomorrow and never lay foundations for a long term plan to get where they aim to achieve.
This is very true, and another reason I think many people prefer to stick with paper based systems or even a Spreadsheets like Excel where they purchased the license and use it forever. The world of software has changed now and the trend is towards a monthly license (SaaS - Software as a Service) to use it which includes on going support, all updates and upgrades, cloud hosting for data security and a whole host of other things. All that said, perhaps there is an opportunity to offer this type of software as a once-off purchase. I will explore this idea and see how if it could be viable. Thanks for the feedback.
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Gone are the days of going into a Personal Computer shop and simply buying a program you want there and then and owning it outright how you please. Nowadays you can rent the same programs but you have to keep paying a subscription to borrow them.
Even buying houses nowadays on new modern estates are being sold the same way. You can buy the house but the land it comes with is leasehold so you never own the land, just rent it.
I'm old school, like to buy something outright and own it. Don't wish to rent something and pay forever to use it. Mortgage paid, debt free and like to remain that way being forced to budget for expenses to obtain what I want, when I want without worrying about debt by being cautious with money . That's how old school people are where as new kids on the block, pile up the debt, worry about it tomorrow and never lay foundations for a long term plan to get where they aim to achieve.
Completely disagree.
The problem with one-off purchases is that there is no ongoing income stream for the developer, therefore no money to maintain, improve, update the product.
This was exactly the problem with that excellent windows program, Window Cleaner Pro. Superb software, way ahead of its time, long before cleaner planner. But it was a one-off payment and it first stopped being supported, then lapsed into obscurity. Much of its code depreciated and there was no funding (or motivation) by the developer to update it.
I’m more than happy to pay a monthly fee for good software. IMO it’s the only way to keep it reliable and working.
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Gone are the days of going into a Personal Computer shop and simply buying a program you want there and then and owning it outright how you please. Nowadays you can rent the same programs but you have to keep paying a subscription to borrow them.
Even buying houses nowadays on new modern estates are being sold the same way. You can buy the house but the land it comes with is leasehold so you never own the land, just rent it.
I'm old school, like to buy something outright and own it. Don't wish to rent something and pay forever to use it. Mortgage paid, debt free and like to remain that way being forced to budget for expenses to obtain what I want, when I want without worrying about debt by being cautious with money . That's how old school people are where as new kids on the block, pile up the debt, worry about it tomorrow and never lay foundations for a long term plan to get where they aim to achieve.
Completely disagree.
The problem with one-off purchases is that there is no ongoing income stream for the developer, therefore no money to maintain, improve, update the product.
This was exactly the problem with that excellent windows program, Window Cleaner Pro. Superb software, way ahead of its time, long before cleaner planner. But it was a one-off payment and it first stopped being supported, then lapsed into obscurity. Much of its code depreciated and there was no funding (or motivation) by the developer to update it.
I’m more than happy to pay a monthly fee for good software. IMO it’s the only way to keep it reliable and working.
exactly.....nothing wrong with paying a monthly nominal fee for a good software program...its tax deductible anyway....
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
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But if the facility isn’t there then you have pay monthly.
Do you pay for a life times telephone rental in one go?
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But if the facility isn’t there then you have pay monthly.
Do you pay for a life times telephone rental in one go?
Who me? No, because there is no option to.
Do you buy your telly on a monthly payment?
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
Might be looking for some motorbike purchasing advice soon after finishing the Sons of Anarchy show 😂
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...I’m more than happy to pay a monthly fee for good software. IMO it’s the only way to keep it reliable and working.
Great points Pete, completely agree.
The "Open Source" software movement from decades ago is where it all began. Many companies did not want to adopt open source software as it was deemed to risky to use mission critical software that was not backed by a corporate. That view has since changed a lot with most Open Source vendors still making their software source available and free to use but also offering commercial offerings where they provide the support and maintenance that is needed to encourage adoption.
We will be "Open Sourcing" the software we are building which makes us accountable to the development community who are free to peer review it. Anyone who so wishes can also run the software from their own servers for free, but of course, our commercial product will be sold as a subscription with all the work of hosting and maintaining it our responsibility.
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But if the facility isn’t there then you have pay monthly.
Do you pay for a life times telephone rental in one go?
Who me? No, because there is no option to.
Do you buy your telly on a monthly payment?
What makes you think I paid for my telly?
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
i pay £15 a month....its hardly breaking the bank for super slick,easy admin.....it makes running my business a lot easier....im happy to pay it.....
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
i pay £15 a month....its hardly breaking the bank for super slick,easy admin.....it makes running my business a lot easier....im happy to pay it.....
£228-348 annually just to use a program that may save some people some time in admin. Better things to waste my money on like buying another property
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But if the facility isn’t there then you have pay monthly.
Do you pay for a life times telephone rental in one go?
Who me? No, because there is no option to.
Do you buy your telly on a monthly payment?
What makes you think I paid for my telly?
You nicked it or you're a pedant?
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
i pay £15 a month....its hardly breaking the bank for super slick,easy admin.....it makes running my business a lot easier....im happy to pay it.....
£228-348 annually just to use a program that may save some people some time in admin. Better things to waste my money on like buying another property
maths wasnt your strong point at school then? ;D
it works out at £180 a year......
i personally cant stand people who expect something for nothing........tight arse people....ive got no time for them..... ;D
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I have to agree with that Daz I still here people moaning about money etc after COVID people should look at life as another go at it if they’ve not been effected at all.
This time last year they might have snuffed it think ourselves lucky should be the attitude going forward imo.
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Pah to the two above posts. Pay monthly pay more. If I want something like a car or motorbike I'll buy it outright. Then I know it's mine and I'm not paying an extra % for the same thing. I'm with windowswashed here. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. Simples.
i pay £15 a month....its hardly breaking the bank for super slick,easy admin.....it makes running my business a lot easier....im happy to pay it.....
£228-348 annually just to use a program that may save some people some time in admin. Better things to waste my money on like buying another property
That's not a better thing, that's just a different thing.
A better thing would be holidays, booze, hookers... ;D
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Post of the year! ;D ;D