Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jay moley on May 10, 2021, 06:30:39 pm
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Ive posted a job on indeed as per recommendations from others on the forum.
So far ive only had 6 applicants. Five were a no from the word go based on their CV's and either poor covering letters or lack of one.
One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Should I be approaching matched people on there or just wait for applicants?
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One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Just playing devils advocate, but what sort of insurance cover do you have that covers an unpaid trial as they are not employees?
I do think you need to see how they get on before hiring and training them up, difficult one really.
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Would you work a day for nothing ?
I think you need to revisit your mind set - if you can't afford £60 to trial someone then your not ready to take people on - it hardly oozes confidence in you and your company from a potential employees point of view
Darran
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Would you work a day for nothing ?
I think you need to revisit your mind set - if you can't afford £60 to trial someone then your not ready to take people on - it hardly oozes confidence in you and your company from a potential employees point of view
Darran
If I was looking for a job I'd work for a day for free.
They wouldn't even be doing much. Its not as if Im going to give him the pole and tell him to crack on. I'd lose money on a training day.
Also shows how keen they are and motivated.
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Why not all my new starters are cleaning with a pole day one
Lose money? That's all part of being an employer - down the line when they earn you a grand a day p/w you going to turn around and them five hundred notes for the day?
Each to their own - good luck with finding the right person
Darran
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Why not all my new starters are cleaning with a pole day one
Lose money? That's all part of being an employer - down the line when they earn you a grand a day p/w you going to turn around and them five hundred notes for the day?
Each to their own - good luck with finding the right person
Darran
Before I did window cleaning I had to go for job interviews. You'd lose half a day doing that. No pay.
Ive been to selection days where you lose the whole day. No pay.
If you want a job surely you have to be willing to either do the above or have a trial day.
Im surprised you'd let someone loose on your customers windows after only a short demo unless you are watching them.
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Interviews are a different kettle of fish, as you say you have already invested time and expense then you want them to spend more of their time for free - if they currently have a job I don't think that viable
Yes they are shown, the best way (IMO) is to demonstrate one or 2 houses then hand them the pole and watch/teach them to do the next 4 or 5 after that they work side by side for 2 weeks with regular tweaking or their technique after that they a small day out on their own and we move on from there
Darran
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Interviews are a different kettle of fish, as you say you have already invested time and expense then you want them to spend more of their time for free - if they currently have a job I don't think that viable
Yes they are shown, the best way (IMO) is to demonstrate one or 2 houses then hand them the pole and watch/teach them to do the next 4 or 5 after that they work side by side for 2 weeks with regular tweaking or their technique after that they a small day out on their own and we move on from there
Darran
I'm not being tight, I just don't think its a lot to ask.
That said I value your opinion as one of the successful people on here so I'll recontact that bloke and offer to pay him.
He did seem like a good candidate.
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Just interview, pick who seems best and get cracking.
It's not as difficult as some people make it.
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Would you work a day for nothing ?
I think you need to revisit your mind set - if you can't afford £60 to trial someone then your not ready to take people on - it hardly oozes confidence in you and your company from a potential employees point of view
Darran
we ALWAYS get people to do an unpaid work trial. always have, always will..
it's their chance to see exactly what the job is like, as much as our chance to see what they are like
it works really well. we dont actually expect them to do anything. i just want to know if they turn up on time, how they are with customers and people, if they are people i can see my self enjoying being around, and what they do when we dont ask them to do anything
my last 2 recruits were both in FT work and both took days annual leave to do it
literally had 2 people reject the opportunity in 10 years.
i'm a little embarrassed to say we used to get them to do a weeks unpaid when i started.. and again
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Ive posted a job on indeed as per recommendations from others on the forum.
So far ive only had 6 applicants. Five were a no from the word go based on their CV's and either poor covering letters or lack of one.
One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Should I be approaching matched people on there or just wait for applicants?
not sure why you only had 6 applicants.
i had over 150 apply for my last 2 jobs this year.
it makes me wonder what the terms you are offering are, or what the text on your job advert is like.
are you offering a decent enough wage?
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Would you work a day for nothing ?
I think you need to revisit your mind set - if you can't afford £60 to trial someone then your not ready to take people on - it hardly oozes confidence in you and your company from a potential employees point of view
Darran
we ALWAYS get people to do an unpaid work trial. always have, always will..
it's their chance to see exactly what the job is like, as much as our chance to see what they are like
it works really well. we dont actually expect the to do anything. i just want to know if they turn up on time, how they are with customers and people, if they are people i can see my self enjoying being around, and what they do when we dont ask them to do anything
my last 2 recruits were both in FT work and both took days annual leave to do it
literally had 2 people reject the opportunity in 10 years.
i'm a little embarrassed to say we used to get them to do a weeks unpaid when i started.. and again
Nice to know Im not completely nuts.
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Ive posted a job on indeed as per recommendations from others on the forum.
So far ive only had 6 applicants. Five were a no from the word go based on their CV's and either poor covering letters or lack of one.
One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Should I be approaching matched people on there or just wait for applicants?
not sure why you only had 6 applicants.
i had over 150 apply for my last 2 jobs this year.
it makes me wonder what the terms you are offering are, or what the text on your job advert is like.
are you offering a decent enough wage?
Its only a part time job which may have something to do with it.
Its a starting day rate of £75 but I say that there are bonuses to increase earnings from day 1.
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You have to look long term sometimes - it doesn't always pay off - but you'll lose more good candidates than bad if your not more open minded
Employing is really about working together as a team - people want to be treated right, they will in return take more care and put in more effort
My guys will regularly work to gone 6pm when we have a big job on - none of this it's 4.30/5pm I'm off home stuff
I'm not saying what I do works all the time and some I have employed don't buy in to the concept of iworking being mutually beneficial, but it works more often than not
Being pragmatic helps (believe me this is hard)
Darran
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If it's free part time labour that you're after you should apply for the kickstart scheme.
6 months free paid labour 25 hours per week.
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If it's free part time labour that you're after you should apply for the kickstart scheme.
6 months free paid labour 25 hours per week.
Am I correct in thinking you think the wage is too low?
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If it's free part time labour that you're after you should apply for the kickstart scheme.
6 months free paid labour 25 hours per week.
Am I correct in thinking you think the wage is too low?
Not at all £75 on 7.5 hours is £10 per hour. As a base starting rate that seems fair.
Not sure about asking people to work for nowt though, even if it is just a day.
Google the kickstart scheme though.. 6 month contract, trial period paid by the government.
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Yeah you need to pay someone for coming in for the day I agree if he seemed keen and you got a good feeling why not pay him something.
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Smudger - can I send you an email?
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Of course
darran@oddbodscleaning.co.uk
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I do understand the logic behind not paying sombody for the trial day in terms of them showing bit of initiative to try get the job but I too think best to just vet them and if you think potential there just give them the trial , pay them and hopefully your gut was right and they work out .
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As well as windows I have a nice little pub, when I take people on its always after a trial shift but I pay.
I know a lot of pubs in the local area who do not pay for trial shifts, its an individual thing but I personally would not work for nothing so why should I expect someone else to.
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
Yes, done it hundreds of times.
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
Yes, done it hundreds of times.
Don't do what you do for a living for free. Not ever.
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
Yes, done it hundreds of times.
WOW :o ???
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I don't employ but if I did I would not expect a candidate to do a days work for nothing,
and as for cleaning someone's house for nothing as a trial .... a big NO NO
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its part of the recruitment process.
it all depends what you are asking them to do. if you ask them to come in and do a days work for nowt thats not OK
but on our unpaid work trials they are not asked or expected to do any work
whoever they are on with has a normal days work for, a single man day.
what we want is for the potential recruit to see the job properly, warts and all, and to see if they want to do it. this is really important for them if they are already employed elsewhere. it means they can be confident leaving their old work for this
and we want to see how they are with customers and how they are out of a formal interview. What they do when they aren't asked, and if my staff think they would be good to work with.
our staff get paid purely on a cut of the days work so its in their interest to have people with them who are going to graft
to be honest its unskilled manual work. other than their work history, i would say the our unpaid trial is more significant that the interview for this type of work.
each to their own though.
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If you did someone’s windows for free as a trial you wouldn’t get an honest opinion as to how good the end result was,they’d be happy for the free clean even if they were not up to standard.
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Just pay them you tight git :D
Doesnt have to be a full day, 2 or 3 hours is plently to show them the job and see how they get on. You can probably make your mind up in half an hour to be fair.
£30 isnt going to break the bank
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its part of the recruitment process.
it all depends what you are asking them to do. if you ask them to come in and do a days work for nowt thats not OK
but on our unpaid work trials they are not asked or expected to do any work
whoever they are on with has a normal days work for, a single man day.
what we want is for the potential recruit to see the job properly, warts and all, and to see if they want to do it. this is really important for them if they are already employed elsewhere. it means they can be confident leaving their old work for this
and we want to see how they are with customers and how they are out of a formal interview. What they do when they aren't asked, and if my staff think they would be good to work with.
our staff get paid purely on a cut of the days work so its in their interest to have people with them who are going to graft
to be honest its unskilled manual work. other than their work history, i would say the our unpaid trial is more significant that the interview for this type of work.
each to their own though.
This doesn't add up - you don't expect them to "work" yet you assess them on how they act with customers and see what they do if not asked ? - sounds like work to me
How does getting paid purely a cut work regarding min wage ?
Darran
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If someone thought I’d go in and do a days work as a trial my response would be ‘this guy wants something for nothing, he feck right off if that’s his attitude....’
A job interview is just as much about the potential employee assessing the employer as the employer assessing the new recruit. Cuts both ways. The guy made the right decision.
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
Yes, done it hundreds of times.
Liar.
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Would you clean a potential customer for free so they could trial your services and test you out?
Yes, done it hundreds of times.
I was being sarcastic. Suprised others believed me.
Liar.
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its part of the recruitment process.
it all depends what you are asking them to do. if you ask them to come in and do a days work for nowt thats not OK
but on our unpaid work trials they are not asked or expected to do any work
whoever they are on with has a normal days work for, a single man day.
what we want is for the potential recruit to see the job properly, warts and all, and to see if they want to do it. this is really important for them if they are already employed elsewhere. it means they can be confident leaving their old work for this
and we want to see how they are with customers and how they are out of a formal interview. What they do when they aren't asked, and if my staff think they would be good to work with.
our staff get paid purely on a cut of the days work so its in their interest to have people with them who are going to graft
to be honest its unskilled manual work. other than their work history, i would say the our unpaid trial is more significant that the interview for this type of work.
each to their own though.
This doesn't add up - you don't expect them to "work" yet you assess them on how they act with customers and see what they do if not asked ? - sounds like work to me
How does getting paid purely a cut work regarding min wage ?
Darran
They’re on the van and getting out and watching etc so they do see some customers, they might ask if they can help by posting a calling card. Up to them really. We’re looking for initiative so grafters end up helping out by seeing the house needs moving or opening a gate whatever
Regarding min wage... we pay minimum wage when they start, and as soon as 30% of their daily sales are more than that they go onto the commission rate instead
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If someone thought I’d go in and do a days work as a trial my response would be ‘this guy wants something for nothing, he feck right off if that’s his attitude....’
A job interview is just as much about the potential employee assessing the employer as the employer assessing the new recruit. Cuts both ways. The guy made the right decision.
To be honest we don’t want entrepreneurial types as windows cleaners
Like I say. It’s never put anyone off as far as I know
Don’t have a problem finding staff
Did a work trial last Thursday and the guys in training this Thursday
My guys are really well paid when they get the job so they obviously think it’s a good deal
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As an ex employer how do you expect to find decent staff if you ain't prepared to pay for a trial? Employees probably thinking tight ass bugger, balls to that. It's only part time for not a brilliant wage to be honest, working in all kinds of weather. in a physically demanding job.
Get better paid jobs pushing a mouse around a pc in security work with more job security.
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As an ex employer how do you expect to find decent staff if you ain't prepared to pay for a trial? Employees probably thinking tight ass bugger, balls to that. It's only part time for not a brilliant wage to be honest, working in all kinds of weather. in a physically demanding job.
Get better paid jobs pushing a mouse around a pc in security work with more job security.
As a current employer I can tell you that we do find great staff who will do exactly this 🤷🏻
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It’s difficult with this job because you don’t want anyone that’s got to much ambition and most people being honest would agree,I mean how long is it going to take anyone with any sense that they can not only do it on their own but they can also earn 4 x as much much money.
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so Richard - in this scenario I go out to clean windows and the van breaks down - its 3 hours before anyone or the AA can recover me and it takes some time for me to get back to base I cleaned 1 house for £25 all day - what are you paying me?
How did paying a % work for furlough payments/entitlements
Darran
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so Richard - in this scenario I go out to clean windows and the van breaks down - its 3 hours before anyone or the AA can recover me and it takes some time for me to get back to base I cleaned 1 house for £25 all day - what are you paying me?
How did paying a % work for furlough payments/entitlements
Darran
Furlough was calculated on last year's P60. (Actually it was the current year to date values then laterally the p60 because it was late march it started, and May before the portal opened to claim it). Take the YTD value / by how many weeks so far this year * 80% = weekly furlough amount.
We trialled a similar % based wage set up when we returned from covid (we moved from two in a van to solo operators so had to change something) it became quickly apparent that it didn't work for us. It wasn't possible to ensure minimum wages and holiday pay sent it out of whack. For us it's basically a self employed set up just without the perks for either party.
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so Richard - in this scenario I go out to clean windows and the van breaks down - its 3 hours before anyone or the AA can recover me and it takes some time for me to get back to base I cleaned 1 house for £25 all day - what are you paying me?
How did paying a % work for furlough payments/entitlements
Darran
That’s never happened to us to be honest.
I’d have to work it out if or when it did ..
Probably they’d just Default back to minimum wage for the hours they were in work
Not really a big issue though. Our vans are leased so all are 1-3 years old and don’t breakdown luckily 🤞🏻
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Imo you need to pay someone whatever weather-holiday etc,if you sit down and work out how much you can do per day with all this costed in and still make a good profit it’s worth it if not there’s no point but a days trial or someone full time they need to know where they are money wise like you do,if you get the right person it’s worth the sacrifice.
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Richard - what do they get for holiday pay - I'm not being picky - just trying to grasp how it runs and stays above the minimum wage and if I were your employee what I would expect if things went wrong and paid holidays
Darran
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Richard - what do they get for holiday pay - I'm not being picky - just trying to grasp how it runs and stays above the minimum wage and if I were your employee what I would expect if things went wrong and paid holidays
Darran
ive emailed you mate
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Ive posted a job on indeed as per recommendations from others on the forum.
So far ive only had 6 applicants. Five were a no from the word go based on their CV's and either poor covering letters or lack of one.
One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Should I be approaching matched people on there or just wait for applicants?
I'm guessing you are looking for a decent person, honest, hard working and respectful.
These people are also looking for a job, they have a history, a current situation and want to 'move forward' for themselves and their family!
They are looking at loads of jobs and see yours.
What would YOU do if you saw your own advert?
The decent candidates are thinking long term, so sell it to them, show them the potential, and bloody pay them for a trial.
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Why do you think when someone comes for a job window cleaning they don’t view it as a “proper” job when the potential employer is quibbling over holiday and sick pay lol,if you can’t afford to pay everything that goes with it you ain’t ready for employing.
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Ive posted a job on indeed as per recommendations from others on the forum.
So far ive only had 6 applicants. Five were a no from the word go based on their CV's and either poor covering letters or lack of one.
One bloke seemed good when I had a chat with him but pulled out when I said he could come on a trial day that wasn't paid.
Should I be approaching matched people on there or just wait for applicants?
When you advertise on Indeed the advert is way down the rankings. If you pay them they will boost the advert and you will get more applicants. It takes minutes to go through them and sort the overqualified and the dross. The problem with trying to employ people is finding an applicant that truly wants the job and wants to in your case clean windows. All too often they are either only applying to keep their JS Allowance or they only want the job as a stop gap and they are the worst. The other day I had a fully qualified Aircraft Pilot apply to me for a Digital Marketing Assistants job. ???
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I know 2 pilots delivering for acado 1 has been furloughed and will go back the other won’t fly a commercial plane again he’s been told,they’ve gone from 90k a year to 21k delivering.
Anyone with the ambition of working on their own and being self employed would be a no no imo,you need someone with bills to pay so they need to get up and out in the morning.
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Very interesting topic has I posted on indeed this week. I am trailing out next week and have a first canditate on Monday. Paid for trial. Why not, personal preference and probably most people would accept no money for a trial. My 18 year old son is always happy when he gets a paid trial. Happy worker is a good start to the relationship. I feel like I want to pay somone for the time. Short interview at end of day, but will be out on the job for the day and that is where emotional decesion will be made. I will also expect them to work on that trial!!!. You have indeed if you want more replies. £5 a day will get you over a 50-100 in a 2 week period.
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What are your experiences of using Facebook to recruit window cleaners?