Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Suffolkcleaners on February 23, 2021, 06:17:50 pm
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Hi guys
Does anyone twin di when making there water? I’m a little confused. I have recently upgraded from a 4.6 litre to an 11 litre vessel. I then for the first time twinned then up once the TDS got too high on the single vessel....:
To my surprise it has lasted no longer whatsoever. The TDS did start back at 000/001 but within just a few filled tanks it’s now shot up to 012. What is actually the point? Have I missed something?
So just to confirm I am using an 11 litre vessel and twinned up my old 4.6 litre to it once the 11 litre TDS creeps up.
Cheers for any comments in advance.
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Two 11L vessels works well, it did when I was DI only. This is the way to twin DI. Use one DI and when that DI starts to creep up keep it as your first DI. Add the second DI AFTER this DI. Your TDS going into the second DI will be a lot lower than your tap water which will mean your second DI will last longer. When your TDS starts to creep up again put your second DI first and change the resin in your original first DI and put that as your second DI.
Rinse and repeat.
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Hi Bungle
Thanks for your response. I’m making the water through a RO and then di to finish off. So it should work by twinning both my 11 litre and my 4.6 litre? So now the TDS has creeped up after using the 11 litre and then connecting to the 4.6 litre are you now saying I should revert back to the 11 litre Di only? And then back to twinning them both together? Have I got that right?
Cheers
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Hi Bungle
Thanks i’ve just read again your comment. Bear with me as taking it all in Lol. So now I’ve used both Di vessels what you are saying in my case is to now change the resin in the original Di I used (11 litre one) but start again but this time around use the smaller Di as my first Di?
I’m still not seeing how I’m saving on resin? I’ve already used as much resin twinning them both up than if I had just used an individual 11 litre and then an individual 4.6 litre.
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make sure you shake the bottles frequently
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Your original post didn't mention an RO. I thought you were using tap water through your DI's. What is the RO bringing the TDS down to? You shouldn't need twin DI with an RO. Unless your RO isn't working efficiently? Have you tried using new resin in your 11L DI and hook that up to your RO?
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Cheers mjm. I had no idea shaking them was something I needed to do.
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What reading have you got coming out of your RO ???
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Hi Bungle
My error. Yes RO then DI to finish off. I think from memory it comes out the RO around 20 TDS and then the DI brings it down to 000.
I don’t necessarily need to twin Di but as I had the 4.6 litre as a spare I was told by the guy who sold me the bigger vessel that I should twin them up to save on resin.
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Cheers mjm. I had no idea shaking them was something I needed to do.
shake them like a barman shakes a cocktail shaker
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A bit like Tom cruise in cocktail 😂
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It seems to me that the guy who advised me to twin them up didn’t realise i was RO then DI. He might have thought I was DI only. Even so does it still not save on resin twinning them up?
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Now I’m doubting it is 20 after RO. I’ve got a pure freedom 450 gpd and it takes about 24 hours to painfully produce around 400 litres. Water in Suffolk is ridiculously hard. Like 400 + TDS.
How do I check what my TDS is after RO? Let’s start with that first.....
Does that make a difference to twinning up the Di vessels? Thanks for your patience 😂
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You're not going to really benefit with such a low input TDS. You only benefit upto the source TDS value, so the lower this is (20ppm here) the less there is to gain by doubling the DI's.
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You're not going to really benefit with such a low input TDS. You only benefit upto the source TDS value, so the lower this is (20ppm here) the less there is to gain by doubling the DI's.
Thanks Winpro. I think the key is to find out what my reading is after RO. I could be wrong on the 20 TDS. How do I test the reading after RO?
If this is low after RO (quite possibly) then that explains why the resin I’ve used is no better twinning them than when I used a single one. Like you said the reading could be too low to benefit from twinning them. I best confirm that though
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Now I’m doubting it is 20 after RO. I’ve got a pure freedom 450 gpd and it takes about 24 hours to painfully produce around 400 litres. Water in Suffolk is ridiculously hard. Like 400 + TDS.
How do I check what my TDS is after RO? Let’s start with that first.....
Does that make a difference to twinning up the Di vessels? Thanks for your patience 😂
Disconnect the hozelock fitting before it goes into the DI vessel
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Now I’m doubting it is 20 after RO. I’ve got a pure freedom 450 gpd and it takes about 24 hours to painfully produce around 400 litres. Water in Suffolk is ridiculously hard. Like 400 + TDS.
How do I check what my TDS is after RO? Let’s start with that first.....
Does that make a difference to twinning up the Di vessels? Thanks for your patience 😂
You have a TDS meter? If you have one fill a cup of RO water before it goes into the DI and test it. You can buy in-line TDS meters but I think that buying one is a bit further down the road for you at the moment.
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Cheers. Let me try that tomorrow and will post again once I get my ‘After RO’ reading 👍
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Hi Bungle
Yep got TDS meter of course. I just need to work out how to test the water before DI (or after RO). KS said just to disconnect hozelock on Di. Will report back tomorrow if I get stuck which I probably will hahahaha
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You might want to look into investing in a 40/40 RO. 400L in 24 hours, your RO must be running flat out? A 40/40 will produce around 300L an hour with a booster pump.
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Hi Bungle
Thanks for that. Jeez. Would only take 3 hours 20 to fill my 1000 litre tank. What sort of cost are you looking at? My PF 450 gpd was only £500 quid or so. Having said that a trickle system is fine as I’m a one man band and don’t need massive amounts of water however the tap is almost on constantly BUT because we have a sub meter Anglian water refund a massive percentage back.
So not sure whether it would be worth the changeover mainly as I said because I can basically claim most of it back. It’s more the convenience of making it a lot quicker I guess.
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Plus saving water and the planet etc etc. I do appreciate there are benefits. Plus if I needed to make water quickly for whatever reason. Would being in a really hard water area make any difference to the 300 litres per hour?
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Plus saving water and the planet etc etc. I do appreciate there are benefits. Plus if I needed to make water quickly for whatever reason. Would being in a really hard water area make any difference to the 300 litres per hour?
the 40 40 system is a complete game changer you will be shocked how many ltres of 00 tds you can make when you know how to use one
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400ltrs in 24hrs lol something is either blocked or your water pressure must be about 10psi.
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400ltrs in 24hrs lol something is either blocked or your water pressure must be about 10psi.
Nope it’s always been that from new. Seems to be slower in winter. As far as I’m aware the pressure is fine. I have just come to accept that for less than £500 you pay for what you get. I will defo look into this 40/40 option
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Right guys I’ve just tested my before DI (After RO) reading and its 037.
Any ideas on why twinning them up has not saved on resin at all? Sounds to me like I might as well just use the one bigger vessel and keep the smaller one as a spare.
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I twin di with RO but am not convinced it’s worth it. Used to gave one big vessel but found two smaller ones easier to empty. I do as Bungle described earlier. I think it just fully exhausts the first vessel. But to be honest since getting a booster pump I’m now 1ppm out of RO so mine should last months. Could even go without resin.
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Right guys I’ve just tested my before DI (After RO) reading and its 037.
Any ideas on why twinning them up has not saved on resin at all? Sounds to me like I might as well just use the one bigger vessel and keep the smaller one as a spare.
Double di is a 'bandaid' but hasn't addressed the basic problem which you need to address.
Your r/o is only removing 90% of the dissolved solids in your tap water if its 400ppm. Your membrane should be removing 97 to 98% of the dissolved solids in your water leaving you around 12 to polish off. 94% was considered the cutoff point, possibly higher for you because of your high tap water tds.
This basically means your membranes probably need replacing.
Living in a high calcium area doesn't help.
Obviously having good water pressure at the tap is important. You can't just think your water pressure is ok. You have to test it with a pressure guage. Plumbing stores or Screwfix sell them.
The next is to check to see what your pure to waste ratio is when producing water. I'm guessing at your high TDS you would need a ratio of around 3 litres of waste to 1 litre of pure - maybe a bit less waste to 1 litre of pure.
If you are going to replace membranes you must get them from a supplier that sells quality USA made membranes such as Filmtec or Axeon. Cheap Chinese copies look good price wise but don't perform over the long run.
www.daqua.co.uk
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Right guys I’ve just tested my before DI (After RO) reading and its 037.
Any ideas on why twinning them up has not saved on resin at all? Sounds to me like I might as well just use the one bigger vessel and keep the smaller one as a spare.
Double di is a 'bandaid' but hasn't addressed the basic problem which you need to address.
Your r/o is only removing 90% of the dissolved solids in your tap water if its 400ppm. Your membrane should be removing 97 to 98% of the dissolved solids in your water leaving you around 12 to polish off. 94% was considered the cutoff point, possibly higher for you because of your high tap water tds.
This basically means your membranes probably need replacing.
Living in a high calcium area doesn't help.
Obviously having good water pressure at the tap is important. You can't just think your water pressure is ok. You have to test it with a pressure guage. Plumbing stores or Screwfix sell them.
The next is to check to see what your pure to waste ratio is when producing water. I'm guessing at your high TDS you would need a ratio of around 3 litres of waste to 1 litre of pure - maybe a bit less waste to 1 litre of pure.
If you are going to replace membranes you must get them from a supplier that sells quality USA made membranes such as Filmtec or Axeon. Cheap Chinese copies look good price wise but don't perform over the long run.
www.daqua.co.uk
Hi Spruce
Thanks for that. Do you know I did think to myself it could have very likely been the membranes. Reason being (my own fault) I have been really lapse at changing the filters on the RO and not flushing as much as I probably should have. The filters I understand should be changed every 3 months. I left it a year at one point without changing.
Upon my own stupid neglect I totally agree I’ve probably knackered the membranes. Although like I said it was never producing any more than 400 litres in 24 hours so for more faster production it seems to me it may be worth considering a 40/40 and looking after it better this time. Cheers for advice 👍
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It's a 450 gpd Ro.....that's US gallons so your production is about right.
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450 us gallons is 1700 litres so it's running at about 1/3 of what it should be - membranes are f@@ked at 37 tds - get new ones and get a booster pump, this will increase pressure and make the ro work better and get you up to 1,000 litres per 24 hours
Darran
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It's easy to say after the event but for £500 you could have got an ro4040 housing and membrane plus a prefilter or 2 off eBay
But get yourself a pump and that ro will do you right for years
Darran
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Cheers Darran
Can you advise firstly the best place to get membranes? Are they easy to change?
Also best place/make of booster pump? Again is this easy to fit?
Cheers in advance. Ps if I can realistically get 1000 litres in 24 hours then membranes and booster pump is the way to go I’m sure 👍
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I can't- I never had one of those types of ro - filters should be straightforward - a lot of booster pumps for that size are a diaphragm pump like you use for water fed pole - I don't know if something the Clarke pump or dab mains pumps are too powerful
If you need one I have a vey air diaphragm pump that's 9 lpm ( something like that ) you can have if you pop over to collect
Darran
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Cheers Darran
Can you advise firstly the best place to get membranes? Are they easy to change?
Also best place/make of booster pump? Again is this easy to fit?
Cheers in advance. Ps if I can realistically get 1000 litres in 24 hours then membranes and booster pump is the way to go I’m sure 👍
Ring Doug at Daqua. He knows his stuff and will advise you. https://www.daqua.co.uk/index.html
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That’s very kind of you Darran. Thank you. You are in Norfolk aren’t you? I’m Suffolk based near Ipswich. No idea how to attach it mind your Lol.
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Cheers Darran
Can you advise firstly the best place to get membranes? Are they easy to change?
Also best place/make of booster pump? Again is this easy to fit?
Cheers in advance. Ps if I can realistically get 1000 litres in 24 hours then membranes and booster pump is the way to go I’m sure 👍
Ring Doug at Daqua. He knows his stuff and will advise you. https://www.daqua.co.uk/index.html
Cheers Bungle.
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Just east of Norwich - fitting is easy
Darran
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Thank you Darran. I’ve just looked up your website and might be a bit further away than I thought but very grateful for such a kind offer. Thanks buddy 👍👍👍
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I’ve just sent you a message Darran. Cheers buddy 👍
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Update...
I’ve contacted PF re;booster pump. Who better to ask as the RO is from them. I believe they do an aquatec one for the 200/300/450 gpd.
Also did a tap TDS check and comes out at 336 TDS so not quite 400 but I’m assuming that doesn’t change anything in terms of not needing to change the membranes?
Not sure if PF do membranes (have emailed them also) but will defo give Doug a call as per previous post 👍
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Just spoke to Doug at daqua (top guy) and he has sorted out my membranes.Also giving me a great tip to test the chlorine to determine if filters need changed. We have a lay z spa so a test strip to test the waste water will determine chlorine level and if levels high then a good indicator the filters need changed.
Learning so much..... Thanks so much guys for advice. New membranes and new booster pump should sort it fingers crossed 👍👍👍
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Glad you're getting sorted!
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Excellent - I didn't get your message
try sending to darran@oddbodscleaning.co.uk
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Thank you for the great advice guys. Changed the membranes today and I now have a reading before DI of 008. (Previously 037)
Water coming out a bit quicker too! Got a Aquatec pump on order from PF so he interesting to see how much quicker I can make the water.
Cheers guys and happy Sunday 😀
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I would expect double the amount p/h and hopefully a drop in TDS to around 005
Darran