Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Matt Bird on February 11, 2021, 11:16:58 pm
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Hi all first post here
Getting injuries left right and centre now golfers elbow shoulder wearing from reeling too fast neck strain even fell down a bloody man hole and dislocated my thumb
Most are repetitive strain which will only get worse !?
Anyone else had these?
Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
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Hi all first post here
Getting injuries left right and centre now golfers elbow shoulder wearing from reeling too fast neck strain even fell down a bloody man hole and dislocated my thumb
Most are repetitive strain which will only get worse !?
Anyone else had these?
Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
How long have you been window cleaning? How old are you? What poles do you use?
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It's expensive this game.
1. Extreme pole
2. Electric reel
3. Step back from the window face it not horizontal
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I started window cleaning thirteen years ago using wfd pole system.
After a short time I had tennis elbow in both arms and lost the strength in both hands due to tennis elbow,my neck also used to hurt from constantly looking up. Both problems sorted themselves out after a few months I was 47 at that time.
Thirteen years on,no tennis elbow,no neck problems,just a dodgeyhip,and I hate the winter and summer more now than I did then,and more customers appear to be arxxholxs,or maybe it's just my age.
Good luck I hope it works out for you
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Thirteen years on,no tennis elbow,no neck problems,just a dodgeyhip
Likewise, I think this job doesn't do our bodies any favours.
Had the bad back, dodgy shoulders, iffy neck. Currently it's the hip/lower back.
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I've had tennis elbow a couple of times in past. Second time doctors advised against cortisone injection as can lead to permanent tendon damage. The advice was to strengthen the joint by specific exercises that stretch out the tendons and massage to encourage greater blood flow to the elbow to repair it. I bought one of these and it helped.https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwin1YKvgeTuAhWp6O0KHT89C7AYABAEGgJkZw&ae=2&sig=AOD64_0Ud7EFc5HMyj8J46fmRFqfkhXf1Q&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwi_iPuugeTuAhVEolwKHbFiBC4Qwg96BAgBEA8&dct=1&adurl=
Anything that's going to take repetitive strain off of your body is going to help . Electric reels.
Light poles and brushes. Even a longer pole will help. Stand further back so you're not straining your neck up or arms above shoulders.
Seek out a good chiropractor. As you age in this line of work it's good investment and maintenance. Your body is equipment too.
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Hi all first post here
Getting injuries left right and centre now golfers elbow shoulder wearing from reeling too fast neck strain even fell down a bloody man hole and dislocated my thumb
Most are repetitive strain which will only get worse !?
Anyone else had these?
Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
Xtreme pole and brush
Electric reel
Microbore(6mm) hose
You need all 3 to make a real difference to strain during your working day.
I find strength training helps 2 or 3 times a week too.
I'm 49 and ive been window cleaning for 28 years(11 WFP)and have never suffered from tennis or golfer's elbow and no shoulder complaints....
I do get occasional back ache but nothing too serious
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Hi all first post here
Getting injuries left right and centre now golfers elbow shoulder wearing from reeling too fast neck strain even fell down a bloody man hole and dislocated my thumb
Most are repetitive strain which will only get worse !?
Anyone else had these?
Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
what hours do you work in a typical day/ week Matt?
how old are you?
do you clean lots of add on work like fascias/soffits/outside gutters,conny roofs,etc?
do you clean lots of high level windows?(3 and 4 storey)
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Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
Up and down is mostly how I operate. Side to side causes too much bodily stress.
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Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
Up and down is mostly how I operate. Side to side causes too much bodily stress.
thats what my missus says so i stick to an up and down motion these days....... ;D
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I've had tennis elbow in the past. Crippling. It was my mum that read something in the paper and told me to try. Glucosamine. Took it for 2 to 3 months religiously. Never ever had it come back. You'll thank me in 3 months if you give it a try x
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Also when scrubbing windows with brush I have mainly used horizontal motion is this incorrect ?
Up and down is mostly how I operate. Side to side causes too much bodily stress.
thats what my missus says so i stick to an up and down motion these days....... ;D
It's at times like that I understand where the phrase 'window licker' comes from....
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Pull you’re fingers back and stretch them palms out in front of you pull fingers back and down,the ulnar nerve is attached to the index or middle fingers on the hand the tendons get tight with repetition.
Loosen the forearm muscle with massage any cream like aqueous non scented cream,up and down using the thumb on the opposite hand,do this for a week 10 full stretches on each hand 3 times a day it’ll be gone in a week.
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Im "only" 39 but im certainly feeling a lot older than i did when is started 5 years ago.
I get pains in my hands, elbows, shoulders and by the weekend seem to ache all over.
Ive just got rid of all my work where i need to use anything longer than a 25ft pole and tbh i would prefer not to use that either..
And definitely an electric reel if you don't have one. Ive been using a manual one all week and getting out of breathe :D
But a few weeks ago i built myself a home gym and have started weight training again and i must admit i feel more energetic and of a better mind lately. So don't underestimate exercise and diet, ive neglected that for years but as you get older hanging onto muscle becomes even more important.
Someone mentioned glucosamine, ive just ordered some of this hope it helps.
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Pull you’re fingers back and stretch them palms out in front of you pull fingers back and down,the ulnar nerve is attached to the index or middle fingers on the hand the tendons get tight with repetition.
Loosen the forearm muscle with massage any cream like aqueous non scented cream,up and down using the thumb on the opposite hand,do this for a week 10 full stretches on each hand 3 times a day it’ll be gone in a week.
Thats quite a sensible, good informative post for you mate, well done 👍
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It will help Stoots. And if it doesn't, you've lost 4 quid. But it will help.
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Can’t believe I’m saying this.......What NWH says is spot on🤩
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I've had tennis elbow in the past. Crippling. It was my mum that read something in the paper and told me to try. Glucosamine. Took it for 2 to 3 months religiously. Never ever had it come back. You'll thank me in 3 months if you give it a try x
Cheers I’ll try that. Had tennis elbow maybe 15 years. Used to be a stone mason.
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Listen lol I had a real real problem with this to the point many years ago I thought I am not going to be able to carry on,I went to osteopaths sports massage you name it and they are useless when it comes to this it can’t be fixed by them it needs a week to 10 days and you are the only one who can get rid of it trust me.
Repetitive movements or over gripping cause this as you use the pole the tendons flex and the main ones are the wrist-forearm-bicep and frontal shoulder muscles,use a full stretch as I said out in front palms up as 1 rep do the stretches during the day and after the 3rd set in the evening then use the massage technique,when you first start doing this you will literally feel it pinging through the tendons as they are being stretched for maybe the first time in some cases.
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Another thing that really helps is heat I used a hot water bottle on the inside of the forearm before stretching in the evening,if you’ve got it badly the forearm muscle will feel like a brick it’ll be so tight,over time it’ll soften when that happens you are getting somewhere it’s all loosening up.
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Im "only" 39 but im certainly feeling a lot older than i did when is started 5 years ago.
I get pains in my hands, elbows, shoulders and by the weekend seem to ache all over.
Ive just got rid of all my work where i need to use anything longer than a 25ft pole and tbh i would prefer not to use that either..
And definitely an electric reel if you don't have one. Ive been using a manual one all week and getting out of breathe :D
But a few weeks ago i built myself a home gym and have started weight training again and i must admit i feel more energetic and of a better mind lately. So don't underestimate exercise and diet, ive neglected that for years but as you get older hanging onto muscle becomes even more important.
Someone mentioned glucosamine, ive just ordered some of this hope it helps.
Makes no difference how old you are with this ailment it’s the repetition the hip and lower back pain is the same with WFP you are twisted and pulling the L4-L5 vertebrae out of sink,I’ve also had this it’s full on working and neglecting the stretches.
With this once an osteopath or chiropractor has put right the realignment with these 2 vertebrae you need to make sure you do hip flexor exercises to keep it at bay,I sit on the floor and pull the right knee to the left shoulder and the left knee to the right shoulder afterwards,you should feel the stretch through the glutes and lower back the hip pain and lower back pain is referred pain from the hip flexors being tight.
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If you pole with the left hand leading you’ll get the hip pain in the left hip and down the leg,a roller on the outside of the T band of the quads loosens the hip flexor big time it almost gets rid of the hip pain,it can be so painful you think to yourself it’s definitely coming from the hip itself but 9-10 it’s not the hip itself. 👍
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Another thing you can do to avoid RSI whilst poling is to alternate how you hold the pole. So for example if your left hand is your ‘ high hand ’ whilst poling, don’t always have your left hand on top of the pole section with your knuckles showing, alternate by repositioning your hand on the underside of the pole so it is your palm and nails showing, this ensures different muscles are being used and reduces the risk of RSI.
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It’s very difficult to change hands if you’re right handed you are right handed and you always end up going back to the dominant side,the pole shouldn’t need to be gripped that’s why the Extreme poles are so good to use they can be used with the fingertips for cleaning with.
The heavier the pole the more the grip is needed I can’t emphasis using the lightest pole possible enough,if you have golfers elbow now it won’t make much difference till it clears up because using a knitting needle at the moment will aggravate it as it’s the movement over gripping will bring it back again.
Hot water helps but doesn’t prevent it but less scrubbing is needed,manual reeling causes it and increases the intensity of it and so does using a heavy pole the Ova pole is good as it changes the rounded grip on a pole but even that slight change of that shape on the Ova it focuses on the outer tendons of the forearm over the inside,even the slight change in shape with that pole almost straight away it feels tricep over what previously felt like bicep strain even with that small change in shape.
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Im "only" 39 but im certainly feeling a lot older than i did when is started 5 years ago.
I get pains in my hands, elbows, shoulders and by the weekend seem to ache all over.
Ive just got rid of all my work where i need to use anything longer than a 25ft pole and tbh i would prefer not to use that either..
And definitely an electric reel if you don't have one. Ive been using a manual one all week and getting out of breathe :D
But a few weeks ago i built myself a home gym and have started weight training again and i must admit i feel more energetic and of a better mind lately. So don't underestimate exercise and diet, ive neglected that for years but as you get older hanging onto muscle becomes even more important.
Someone mentioned glucosamine, ive just ordered some of this hope it helps.
I've been weight training regularly for nearly 5 years now Adam....it does make a difference to how you feel...also building bigger shoulders,arms and back really helps with wfp.....
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It’s very difficult to change hands if you’re right handed you are right handed and you always end up going back to the dominant side,the pole shouldn’t need to be gripped that’s why the Extreme poles are so good to use they can be used with the fingertips for cleaning with.
The heavier the pole the more the grip is needed I can’t emphasis using the lightest pole possible enough,if you have golfers elbow now it won’t make much difference till it clears up because using a knitting needle at the moment will aggravate it as it’s the movement over gripping will bring it back again.
Hot water helps but doesn’t prevent it but less scrubbing is needed,manual reeling causes it and increases the intensity of it and so does using a heavy pole the Ova pole is good as it changes the rounded grip on a pole but even that slight change of that shape on the Ova it focuses on the outer tendons of the forearm over the inside,even the slight change in shape with that pole almost straight away it feels tricep over what previously felt like bicep strain even with that small change in shape.
Who said anything about changing hands?
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If you were 18 stone ripped and were sorting out buttons for a living you’d get tendinitis in you’re fingers it’s the repetitive movement m8,Bodybuilders take steroids to build muscle they promote protein but the main resason they don’t get injured is because it also strengthens the tendons to the point you don’t know when you’ve injured them they just snap.
You can be as big and as strong as anyone it’s the repetitive movement that starts this off,the body is a wonderful thing the tightness and pain is a signal somethings not right.
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Sorry yeah alter how you hold the pole you said which is true I’ve also tried this but the majority of the time we all end up going back to the same way we used to,try fingers on top of pole or fingers underneath I always found myself going back to what was natural.
It’ll come back without the stretches no matter how you hold the pole the key I’ve found is to take the time to do these stretches as and when I can feel it niggling or playing up,this injury is ageless it comes and goes but if you keep on top of it you’ll go months then years without this elbow pain it was getting to the point with me that I couldn’t sleep I couldn’t rest my elbow anywhere without starting it off.
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Hey Nigel -
great posts mate lets see more of this kind of thing
Darran
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😘 much love m8 cold where you are is it ridiculously cold down South biting wind feels like -10 + in the wind 💨.
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no, further inland -10 but around here -2 at its worst - snow virtually gone now
Darran
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As above really.
I had tennis elbow and what worked for me is:
Lighter pole Xtreme 22 pole (you can clean using your fingertips).
Extreme brushes only.
Using 50m of Gardiners reinforced pole hose (on my main reel) along with 50m microbore. This lighter weight hose is easier to pull round houses and reel in.
Electric reel (although I don't have one).
Make sure your reel is at shoulder height (so you're not bending over etc).
I work out the side of the van (so in 95% of situations I have a straight run of hose to the back of the house)
Learn how to clean methodically (so you're not wasting effort, or over cleaning).
Work to a reasonable pace (don't go balls out mental every day because you'll burn out)
Listen to your body. If you fancy a 5 min rest have one.
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Learn to pole left and right handed, easy enough if you keep doing it regularly.
Other thing is rinse with the brush on the glass. See some nutters trying to rinse off the glass with an arched back too close to the buildings, houses, no wonder they bugger themselves up.
Scrub vertically not horizontally and also rinse vertically unless glass exceptionally hydrophobic.
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Learn to pole left and right handed, easy enough if you keep doing it regularly.
Other thing is rinse with the brush on the glass. See some nutters trying to rinse off the glass with an arched back too close to the buildings, houses, no wonder they bugger themselves up.
Scrub vertically not horizontally and also rinse vertically unless glass exceptionally hydrophobic.
You must be the Ronnie O’Sullivan of the WFP’ling world👏👏
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If you were 18 stone ripped and were sorting out buttons for a living you’d get tendinitis in you’re fingers it’s the repetitive movement m8,Bodybuilders take steroids to build muscle they promote protein but the main resason they don’t get injured is because it also strengthens the tendons to the point you don’t know when you’ve injured them they just snap.
You can be as big and as strong as anyone it’s the repetitive movement that starts this off,the body is a wonderful thing the tightness and pain is a signal somethings not right.
ive never taken steroids and never would........weight training has helped a lot....i dont get RSI......regular training doesnt just build stronger muscles it strengthens tendons too......
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What’s happened to Mr Bird
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Another thing you can do to avoid RSI whilst poling is to alternate how you hold the pole. So for example if your left hand is your ‘ high hand ’ whilst poling, don’t always have your left hand on top of the pole section with your knuckles showing, alternate by repositioning your hand on the underside of the pole so it is your palm and nails showing, this ensures different muscles are being used and reduces the risk of RSI.
Been doing this for last few days and it’s making a difference
Thanks for reply’s
Nwh I did hot water bottle last night before I saw these and made a difference today!
I’ll try the exercises for sure thanks a lot!!
I’m around 30 I do lods of s/f/gs no high work
My
Pole is 1kg carbon best around that doesn’t snap as I’ve tried super light hi mods and they’re poop sidewards etc no electric reeel I pull hose down road in villages in van just workin too hard I reckon
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Also it is nerves in hand as I’ve been getting numb hand in morning and with wrist turned inwards tightening a ladder clamp for example sometimes it can cause a massive almost like electric shock which are that painful it’s made me fall off backward van wheel ::)roll ::)roll
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Sorry yeah alter how you hold the pole you said which is true I’ve also tried this but the majority of the time we all end up going back to the same way we used to,try fingers on top of pole or fingers underneath I always found myself going back to what was natural.
It’ll come back without the stretches no matter how you hold the pole the key I’ve found is to take the time to do these stretches as and when I can feel it niggling or playing up,this injury is ageless it comes and goes but if you keep on top of it you’ll go months then years without this elbow pain it was getting to the point with me that I couldn’t sleep I couldn’t rest my elbow anywhere without starting it off.
Triple reply but hey ho been busy today.
I been doing this open handed . Standing straight also as I think shoulder is front always been diagonal with arms causing back arm to be crunched up position for shoulder blade if you KWIM?!
Been loads better today going slower and vertical and using both arms which I never have on upstairs ! I reckon cold weather ain’t helping with it all either and gyms are shut so haven’t trained for a year and getting a bit fatter. All advice has been great though much appreciated
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That comment about rinsing off the glass is so true you just don’t need to I see this all the time brush a foot away from the glass it’s a joke,you don’t need bring it off the glass with a good flow of water.
The tiny bits you’ll see on the glass when you’ve finished a window disappear when it’s dried off I’ve done countless experiments with rinsing on and off years ago it makes no difference,I use pencil jets controller on 90-95 it’s got no choice but to rinse as I go.
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Also it is nerves in hand as I’ve been getting numb hand in morning and with wrist turned inwards tightening a ladder clamp for example sometimes it can cause a massive almost like electric shock which are that painful it’s made me fall off backward van wheel ::)roll ::)roll
Nerve pain in the hand like the feeling of electric shocks that’s the same thing as golfers elbow all come from the Ulnar nerve,release the tendons in the forearm that goes as well it’s all to do with it.
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Also it is nerves in hand as I’ve been getting numb hand in morning and with wrist turned inwards tightening a ladder clamp for example sometimes it can cause a massive almost like electric shock which are that painful it’s made me fall off backward van wheel ::)roll ::)roll
Nerve pain in the hand like the feeling of electric shocks that’s the same thing as golfers elbow all come from the Ulnar nerve,release the tendons in the forearm that goes as well it’s all to do with it.
That’s what I’ve read in last couple days . I’ll try these exercises and will let you know outcome.
With regards to rinsing I’ll try on glass then as I’ve always done off. And I have no pump controller my pump is always 100. Sometimes more as when pressure switch f***s up I bypass till
New one arrives 😂😂 don’t understand why people use constantly poop pressure?! If water is running low and I’m
Far away I will scrub top pArt turn water off clean it then rinse, why use flow on 50 constant makes no sense scrub and rinse on max work faster no?
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Try 3 x a day 10 stretches on each arm treat each stretch as a rep warm up the fingers by getting rid of the gas that’s the clicking,the icing 🧁 on the cake is the evening massage using the thumb and you know what they say if you wanna make em hum uuuuuuse the thumb lol,run your thumb from inside your forearm down to the wrist you’ll need to use cream like a moisturiser not too much or it’ll be too slippery and you won’t be able to get right in their. You’ll know it’s getting better as the days go on the deeper the massage the less it’ll hurt and don’t forget the heat hot water bottle works best as it covers all the forearm at once,blimey I’ve read that back it look like I’m talking dirty to you 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👌
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Learn to pole left and right handed, easy enough if you keep doing it regularly.
Other thing is rinse with the brush on the glass. See some nutters trying to rinse off the glass with an arched back too close to the buildings, houses, no wonder they bugger themselves up.
Scrub vertically not horizontally and also rinse vertically unless glass exceptionally hydrophobic.
You must be the Ronnie O’Sullivan of the WFP’ling world👏👏
Nineteen years ago I was left paralysed and needed 24/7 care for everything. Spent three years trying to defeat the specialists and doctors who basically told me I'd never work again. Proved them all wrong and in the process learned to use both hands for writing and eventually water fed poling when I returned to work. Anything is possible with enough determination if you can defy pain and overcome barriers and obstacles put in your path with a very strong will never to let defeat win :) :) :) :)
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That’s quite an achievement!
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That’s quite an achievement!
I've been very athletic all my life up until that point in my life.
So demoralising and degrading being helpless and dependent on others for simple things like washing, visiting the toilet, getting dressed, being spoon fed. Changes your outlook on life and perception of others. You can't sink any lower than that in life.
I sat my parents down and explained to them that I was going to fight all the pain and every physical obstacle to get my independence back to be able to do all the normal things most people take for granted and if I couldn't and had to depend on care 24/7 in 12 months time that I wished to be flown to Switzerland and have consultation and the injection to end my life. It was a very memorable, open and honest talk with them.
That was my determination to get well and never stopped to give in to pain. It was mentally the hardest challenge as much as it was physically challenging but every time I could see improvements was all the inspiration I needed to keep pushing myself and to never give in !!!
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As NWH and Windows have said, exercise, stretching and a change of dominant hand will get you through the discomfort/pain and working in a way that reduces the likelihood of suffering it again. Try also holding the pole with a slightly looser grip and a good dollop of ibuprofen gel a couple of times a day. Finally a c-shaped brace helped me - the fatter part of the brace sat over the area where the tendon attached to the bone and relieved a lot of the pain whilst I carried on working.
Ultimately it's probably an occupational hazard as we get older. Isn't getting old great?
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As NWH and Windows have said, exercise, stretching and a change of dominant hand will get you through the discomfort/pain and working in a way that reduces the likelihood of suffering it again. Try also holding the pole with a slightly looser grip and a good dollop of ibuprofen gel a couple of times a day. Finally a c-shaped brace helped me - the fatter part of the brace sat over the area where the tendon attached to the bone and relieved a lot of the pain whilst I carried on working.
Ultimately it's probably an occupational hazard as we get older. Isn't getting old great?
I thought you were only 30?I'm 49 and dont suffer from any of them aches and pains and I'm weight training 2 or 3 times a week too!playing drums and have been window cleaning for 28 years..11 of them WFP....
Its certainly not normal to be suffering like you do...sounds like you might have some sort of arthritis to me....
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The lower back-hip-golfers elbow can affect anyone of any age the electric reel and extreme poles make a huge difference,the electric reel eliminated lower back and shoulder pain for me within a week 10 days.
Anyone that tells you they don’t need an electric reel doesn’t reel out a lot of hose throughout the day.
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I’m reeling out most of the reel on each job the only time you’ll have a lightbulb 💡 moment is when you have a go on an electric jobby,the credit card will be straight out the pocket.
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As NWH and Windows have said, exercise, stretching and a change of dominant hand will get you through the discomfort/pain and working in a way that reduces the likelihood of suffering it again. Try also holding the pole with a slightly looser grip and a good dollop of ibuprofen gel a couple of times a day. Finally a c-shaped brace helped me - the fatter part of the brace sat over the area where the tendon attached to the bone and relieved a lot of the pain whilst I carried on working.
Ultimately it's probably an occupational hazard as we get older. Isn't getting old great?
I thought you were only 30?I'm 49 and dont suffer from any of them aches and pains and I'm weight training 2 or 3 times a week too!playing drums and have been window cleaning for 28 years..11 of them WFP....
Its certainly not normal to be suffering like you do...sounds like you might have some sort of arthritis to me....
Nah, just behind you mate, 48. But 22 years of muay thai 2-4 times a week, a manual job, cervical ribs and loose ligaments have slowed me up.
In fact of all the niggles that slow me down, the effing cervical ribs is the killer. I highly recommend next time anyone wants to place a hex on someone, ask for them to have those little darlings. Mutter grumble...