Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bungle on January 01, 2021, 04:16:25 pm
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Just been out to mine and the pump, reel and poles hoses were froze. Glad I didn't wait until Monday morning to find out.
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And who wants hot water eh just checked mine frost stat on 🤣🤣
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And who wants hot water eh just checked mine frost stat on 🤣🤣
🤣🤣 hilarious.
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Mine are inside the unit 8)
Darran
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Inside the unit outside in the middle of a field the brush jets take no prisoners lol,I remember when I first started WFP when it’s very cold as soon as you turn the pole off the brush jets freeze.
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Just been out to mine and the pump, reel and poles hoses were froze. Glad I didn't wait until Monday morning to find out.
checked mine today.....fired up the heater and cleaned the van and the car and melted any snow/ice left on my roof.....bumped into my neighbours and they confirmed my frost stat is working as normal.....its been firing up every night while ive been staying at my girlfriends which is good to know......
i also hoovered out both vehicles,filled up my screenwash and made sure ive got ice melt grit and a sweeping brush in my van for monday morning.....it looks like this cold weather is staying around for a few weeks.....
tomorrow ill drive up to my missus house in my van and clean hers,stepdaughters and her boyfriends car......then ill drive home,fill up,put batteries on charge and ill be ready for monday morning then......
my missus is staying at mine tonight so im on a promise! :D 8)
happy new year to you all! :)
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It's a bit tricky with a pick up.
Had to defrost it yesterday.
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Inside the unit outside in the middle of a field the brush jets take no prisoners lol,I remember when I first started WFP when it’s very cold as soon as you turn the pole off the brush jets freeze.
that's why I use am immersion - full set up 1 hr fitting £50 total cost - but "yo da man" and happy to spend $K to get the same result ;D
Darran
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Just been out to mine and the pump, reel and poles hoses were froze. Glad I didn't wait until Monday morning to find out.
checked mine today.....fired up the heater and cleaned the van and the car and melted any snow/ice left on my roof.....bumped into my neighbours and they confirmed my frost stat is working as normal.....its been firing up every night while ive been staying at my girlfriends which is good to know......
i also hoovered out both vehicles,filled up my screenwash and made sure ive got ice melt grit and a sweeping brush in my van for monday morning.....it looks like this cold weather is staying around for a few weeks.....
tomorrow ill drive up to my missus house in my van and clean hers,stepdaughters and her boyfriends car......then ill drive home,fill up,put batteries on charge and ill be ready for monday morning then......
my missus is staying at mine tonight so im on a promise! :D 8)
happy new year to you all! :)
They’ll be delighted you’re cleaning their cars with piping hot water and a window cleaning brush.....swirl marks galore😧
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Just been out to mine and the pump, reel and poles hoses were froze. Glad I didn't wait until Monday morning to find out.
itll probably catch a few of you inexperienced wfp guys out this winter.........the first year i went wfp in 2010 we had a -15 night and it froze all 10 barrels in the back of my old kangoo!
ive also had a few gas shower heaters freeze and break over the xmas period over the years......
you live and learn....... :)
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I broke a nail the other day just flickin a switch 😉
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I broke a nail the other day just flickin a switch 😉
;D ;D ;D
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I remember some years ago I left my second van over the mother in-laws over crimbo unprotected, everything froze solid , the pump filter shattered then when it thawed 350L ran into van .
It then refroze, both footwells turned into giant ice cubes, even the pedals were encased in the ice , it took about a week to thaw back to usable ;D ;D ;D
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Yeah but hot water systems are a complete waste of money 🤣🤣
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Just been out to mine and the pump, reel and poles hoses were froze. Glad I didn't wait until Monday morning to find out.
checked mine today.....fired up the heater and cleaned the van and the car and melted any snow/ice left on my roof.....bumped into my neighbours and they confirmed my frost stat is working as normal.....its been firing up every night while ive been staying at my girlfriends which is good to know......
i also hoovered out both vehicles,filled up my screenwash and made sure ive got ice melt grit and a sweeping brush in my van for monday morning.....it looks like this cold weather is staying around for a few weeks.....
tomorrow ill drive up to my missus house in my van and clean hers,stepdaughters and her boyfriends car......then ill drive home,fill up,put batteries on charge and ill be ready for monday morning then......
my missus is staying at mine tonight so im on a promise! :D 8)
happy new year to you all! :)
There hasn't been much on TV, to be fair.
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Happy new year Griff hope all is well with you and family 👌
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Checked mine today and the doors took a bit to get open. ;D
The frost stats been kicking in though, I’ve heard it a few times so all good.
The pipes into my stand alone garage and RO unit on the other hand. ??? 🥶
Thankfully the ro itself is protected as my garage has some heat tubes inside. I’ll eventually get them deforested though. I’m not starting back till Tuesday so Monday will be a tinkering day, ready for Tuesday.
It’s been good to get some down time. It’s been -6 here at some points this week, and never been above freezing for more than an hour or so. Timings been perfect for a week off.
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Yeah but hot water systems are a complete waste of money 🤣🤣
Don't be silly, while the rest of us who don't have a hot water system are lying up in our warm homes watching TV you can be out in the freezing soul destroying conditions working away, put it this way, if I was desperate enough to need one I would have one or better still find a better/easier way to earn a living. 😁😁
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It’s always been a comfort thing for me , and as you all know my water doesn’t get as hot as Grippa water until quite late in the day , the usual is about 30*c hitting the glass at current temps .
Before heat I was going home due to being a real bad cold feeler , but since using it I haven’t even needed gloves , my old setup saw me wearing sealskinz with latex or cotton liners under Showa’s !
I think even if I could warrant the spend on a Grippa I wouldn’t
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It’s always been a comfort thing for me , and as you all know my water doesn’t get as hot as Grippa water until quite late in the day , the usual is about 30*c hitting the glass at current temps .
Before heat I was going home due to being a real bad cold feeler , but since using it I haven’t even needed gloves , my old setup saw me wearing sealskinz with latex or cotton liners under Showa’s !
I think even if I could warrant the spend on a Grippa I wouldn’t
Perfect post mate
Darran
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i had a lucky escape van was froze up but gas heater is ok i for got to drain it ::)roll may get a diesel heater this year my local is verotech so it be the stream line 9 killa watt any one no how much fully fitted ?
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that's why I use am immersion - full set up 1 hr fitting £50 total cost - but "yo da man" and happy to spend $K to get the same result ;D
Odd isn't it, the most cost effective way of heating water is to use gas? If it wasn't we'd all have electric boilers. The most cost effective way to heat an empty van space i can only imagine is not an immersion. WHats your running costs per week for the immersion system per van ?
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It’s always been a comfort thing for me , and as you all know my water doesn’t get as hot as Grippa water until quite late in the day , the usual is about 30*c hitting the glass at current temps .
Before heat I was going home due to being a real bad cold feeler , but since using it I haven’t even needed gloves , my old setup saw me wearing sealskinz with latex or cotton liners under Showa’s !
I think even if I could warrant the spend on a Grippa I wouldn’t
Exactly this. I have a 3kw immersion and it only goes on in the winter months, purely to stop equipment freezing in the van and to keep my hands warm on the colder days.
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that's why I use am immersion - full set up 1 hr fitting £50 total cost - but "yo da man" and happy to spend $K to get the same result ;D
Odd isn't it, the most cost effective way of heating water is to use gas? If it wasn't we'd all have electric boilers. The most cost effective way to heat an empty van space i can only imagine is not an immersion. WHats your running costs per week for the immersion system per van ?
Using a gas boiler in a WFP set up means you don’t heat the water up overnight, so it doesn’t offer frost protection. There is also the question of safety, you can’t put a price on that.
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
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I think it does have a big enough impact for me anyway me personally I don’t think 5k is a great deal of money to flick a switch for hot water,if I couldn’t afford it I’d still want it that’s the difference in an honest opinion.
If I thought it was only good for facia and soffit cleans I’d own up and say pointless for windows,I have no interest in telling people with cold water that hot is better I know it is I have the option of being able to use both so I can give an honest answer,anyone thinking of going hot don’t listen to a never been hot cold water user.
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i had a lucky escape van was froze up but gas heater is ok i for got to drain it ::)roll may get a diesel heater this year my local is verotech so it be the stream line 9 killa watt any one no how much fully fitted ?
Lots of money from Varitech !
They are my on the doorstep people too !
I’m in Plymouth so if you do want a diesel feel free to come on down and have a look see at mine ;D
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
If there’s no one can prove it either way then surely that means that any difference is negligible?
I have no doubt that it’s nicer on your hands and the fact that it stops your van from freezing is handy though.
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Hi Darren, where do you get 9p a kWh from?
I’ m currently paying 16p so 2kw immersion costing me around £3.50 a night.
I reckon this is still cheaper than gas or diesel.
For me, at 70, it’s a perfect facility. I’m too old to invest 5k in a diesel heater.
With the immersion I get no freezing, no windscreen to scrape, warm hoses and faster cleaning.
My tank is so well insulated that I lose very little temperature over the day.
Cleaning wise I find the main benefit is in rinsing. Hot water does clean better it’s obvious, think of washing up.
Overall I fully understand some guys staying on cold but for around £100, with no servicing costs it suits me and there’s no way I’d go back.
Happy New Year guys, all the best for 2021.
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
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On average I lose maybe 3 days each year to freezing conditions ( south coast ). If each winter I was going to consistently not be able to work for weeks on end without it I'd invest in it, no question. I don't doubt hot water cleans more efficiently but for me at least it would be an added expense for negligible financial gain.
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The proof is when you go inside and look at your work from upstairs if you clean doors and frames as you go you would see the difference using hot,I’m not one for wasting time and money if it was the same as cold I’d hardly ever turn it on.
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If you are someone that does coastal work after 1 demo you’d hand over you’re card to buy 1 lol,I’ve seen the difference using cold over hot on work I do about 30 meters from the sea it’s night and day in time and end result.
I like the way cold water still leaves loads of white runs on coastal work because cold water doesn’t lift the salt off of the rubber seals 🤣🤣
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I had a 9kw webasto 2 man 650 litre system from purefreedom for 4 years, I currently have a 3kw immersion heater in a 500 litre tank, 9 months of the year I use cold water. 95% of my work is 4 weekly regular maintenance cleans, I use a backpack to do my work as I just couldn’t get on with hose reels. Whether I use very hot, hot, lukewarm or cold water I clean the same amount of houses per day in the same time. The main reasons for this is that for some strange reason hot water doesn’t push the brush up and down a window any faster than cold water does, it doesn’t make me walk any faster, it doesn’t make getting the equipment out of the van any quicker etc, etc. I don’t hang around long enough to time how long the windows take to dry and I don’t need to go inside a property to make sure I have cleaned the windows properly, I’m sure the customer would let me know if they weren’t.
I clean my own windows and whether they are cleaned with hot or cold water the result is the same......clean windows.
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I'm doing a good enough job of coastal properties without the need for it. I've retained those customers for years without complaint, plenty of cleaners in my area too with and without hot. I get paid and get to keep more of it without hot water.
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Think this is the cheapest and most efficient way to heat your van:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5000W-Air-diesel-Heater-LCD-Remote-2KW-5KW-12V-For-Lorry-MotorHomes-Car-Boat-SUV/163687483643
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If you are someone that does coastal work after 1 demo you’d hand over you’re card to buy 1 lol,I’ve seen the difference using cold over hot on work I do about 30 meters from the sea it’s night and day in time and end result.
I like the way cold water still leaves loads of white runs on coastal work because cold water doesn’t lift the salt off of the rubber seals 🤣🤣
Exactly this is why we have hot in all our vans makes a huge difference, but you will never convince the majority on hear as they haven’t got or used hot water so cannot make a fair comparison , hot cuts a lot of our costal works time by nearly half especially after a storm and the windows are opaque with salt , but Ime not going to waist my time saying any more as certain experts on hear will just poo poo it and know better .
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If you are someone that does coastal work after 1 demo you’d hand over you’re card to buy 1 lol,I’ve seen the difference using cold over hot on work I do about 30 meters from the sea it’s night and day in time and end result.
I like the way cold water still leaves loads of white runs on coastal work because cold water doesn’t lift the salt off of the rubber seals 🤣🤣
Exactly this is why we have hot in all our vans makes a huge difference, but you will never convince the majority on hear as they haven’t got or used hot water so cannot make a fair comparison , hot cuts a lot of our costal works time by nearly half especially after a storm and the windows are opaque with salt , but Ime not going to waist my time saying any more as certain experts on hear will just poo poo it and know better .
I agree with that, I used to clean an area in my town that was right on the Firth of Forth, if strong winds came off the sea in the wrong direction you couldn’t see out of the windows. Even using hot it would take twice as long to clean compared to a normal maintenance clean, with cold it would have took longer again.....I sold that work about 3 years back😁. I do however stand by that on regular maintenance cleans it makes no difference.
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.
I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years ;D
I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....
Darran
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.
I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years ;D
I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....
Darran
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If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around 4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?
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I'm not saying hot water would not be of benefit to cleaning my coastal properties. What I'm saying is that in my current circumstances I've better things to spend my money on. I get by fine with the set up I use. I may get home an hour earlier but that's about it.
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Unless the water you use is hot enough you won’t see the kind of cleaning results most talk about it needs to be 55-65 degrees,you will get supple hoses and it’ll be more pleasurable to work using warm water from an element etc but using what I call proper hot water the results are evident.
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?
Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? ;D
No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.
I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems, cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.
Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.
If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.
I love my set up though. ;D
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?
Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? ;D
No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.
I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems, cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.
Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.
If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.
I love my set up though. ;D
I am an old codger, I didn't start cleaning windows until my mid 40s. 😁 cant believe its been 14 years.
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I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees.
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.
Darran
I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.
I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 8)
Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?
Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? ;D
No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.
I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems, cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.
Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.
If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.
I love my set up though. ;D
I am an old codger, I didn't start cleaning windows until my mid 40s. 😁 cant believe its been 14 years.
Ah your still a spring chicken. 😁 By dads just turned 62 and is still loving window cleaning. Two days a week mind you. That’s probably the secret.
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.
I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years ;D
I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....
Darran
You are a spot on darran.
Hot water has no effect on dirt, dust etc. It’s grease and fats where it comes into its own.
You can prove this by simply pouring cold water over a sheet of glass covered in dirt, and then doing the same with hot. It has the same effect.
Dirt does not react to hot water like grease etc.
Spot on with algae as well. Algae on plastic will come off just as easily with cold water.
People just have it in there heads that hot works wonders. It doesn’t. If it did, you wouldn’t need tk scrub.
Windows are cleansed by scrubbing. Not water alone. It’s the combination of the brush and water that cleans.
It also makes me laugh when people claim that pure water cleans better than normal. That’s also rubbish. The only reason we use pure is for the end result. Not the cleaning.
There is one area that hot is better than cold in window cleaning, and that’s bird muck.
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You’ve never used 55-65 degree water then because by the looks of that reply it’s obvious to me you haven’t,hotter the water the less scrubbing needed hot water dissolves dirt quicker go and hold a dirty plate under cold water and then hold a dirty one under a hot tap.
The heat from the water lifts dirt without hardly any scrubbing now take that principle and apply it to WFP,do you honestly think I’d bother if it was no better 🤣 I’d stick with working with iced water and wire for hose.
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Birds muck eh what about PVC frames that have lots of seals on them that get engrained with green algae,I suppose a squirt of TFR does the trick most of the time it doesn’t get them anywhere to the same standard as hot water.
Conservatory roofs with cold water 🤔 I love cleaning the plastic dividers with cold water eh,come on lads just give me your 5 grand 🤣🤣
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You’ve never used 55-65 degree water then because by the looks of that reply it’s obvious to me you haven’t,hotter the water the less scrubbing needed hot water dissolves dirt quicker go and hold a dirty plate under cold water and then hold a dirty one under a hot tap.
The heat from the water lifts dirt without hardly any scrubbing now take that principle and apply it to WFP,do you honestly think I’d bother if it was no better 🤣 I’d stick with working with iced water and wire for hose.
You don’t tend to get dried in beans, gravy, sauce etc on the windows I clean! so this doing dishes with hot water thing you keep banging on about holds no relevance whatsoever when compared to cleaning windows 🤣
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Ive no doubt that hot is beneficial it certain circumstances.
But ive also no doubt that the outlay isnt worth it, its simply too expensive and running costs too high to warrant its use.
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Ive no doubt that hot is beneficial it certain circumstances.
But ive also no doubt that the outlay isnt worth it, its simply too expensive and running costs too high to warrant its use.
All depends on your work if doing a handful of houses a day no you won’t make it pay if doing thousands of windows on hotels, apartment blocks and hundreds of sheets of balustrade every week then it’s a no brainier .
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I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.
I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.
And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.
Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.
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I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.
I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.
And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.
Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.
That really sums it up , you don’t want to pay for it although you would like it , and that’s fine each to there own , I would never go back we use hot all year round , and the work we do it costs peanuts and is well worth the expense
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.
I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years ;D
I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....
Darran
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If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around 4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .
Do large hotels really want their windows cleaned every 4 weeks, in this climate and with your prices? They'd be bankrupt ;D
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Funny how a post on Checking Your Van translates into a debate on the benefits of hot water, not like we have had these before.
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Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.
It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?
But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.
At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.
Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.
I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years ;D
I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....
Darran
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If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around 4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .
Do large hotels really want their windows cleaned every 4 weeks, in this climate and with your prices? They'd be bankrupt ;D
Yes in fact with 3 of them we have been doing them weekly due to bad weather and guests cannot see out of the windows , but they are on hold again due to holidays being banned at this time , hopefully now we will be able to catch up on some plastic cleans , gutter vac jobs and a bit of soft washing .
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I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.
I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.
And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.
Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.
That really sums it up , you don’t want to pay for it although you would like it , and that’s fine each to there own , I would never go back we use hot all year round , and the work we do it costs peanuts and is well worth the expense
Same as depends it’s pennies compared what you can earn with it we have very very little overheads even if it was a 100 notes a week it’s nothing compared to what other so called trades have to lay out on for work ie saws-drills the list goes on.
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My van is ok.
I take my pole out every night, drain it down, and cover the rest in a duvet. No problems so far.
I can't park my van near the house so I am a bit stuffed!
I can see the benefits of hot water but i'm 56 years old. I am aiming towards...no more fsg cleans, no connie roofs, first cleans I don't need it anyway (because i know what i'm doing). I want my life simple.
Hopefully soon I'll be getting a Toyota Hilux pickup and just doing maintenance cleans.
No more gutter vacs, no more pressure washing, no more fsg jobs and no more conny roofs. I have a mate who can do all this for me.
Happy days...!
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I think if I was full time cold I’d look into getting a nice 4x4 but it’s not possible with a hot system.
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You’ve never used 55-65 degree water then because by the looks of that reply it’s obvious to me you haven’t,hotter the water the less scrubbing needed hot water dissolves dirt quicker go and hold a dirty plate under cold water and then hold a dirty one under a hot tap.
The heat from the water lifts dirt without hardly any scrubbing now take that principle and apply it to WFP,do you honestly think I’d bother if it was no better 🤣 I’d stick with working with iced water and wire for hose.
You really obviously don’t read reply’s properly Nigel.
Of course a plate of FOOD will clean up better with hot. That’s because it’s food not dirt.
Did you even read my reply? I stated very obviously that hot water works well on fats and grease, not dirt on windows.
There is a massive difference between food and outside dirt you plank.
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I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.
I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.
And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.
Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.
In reality Simon, if you cleaned a window with normal tap water, then another window with pure, you’d see absolutely no discernible difference between the two.
That statement about pure water wanting to return to its higher TDS is basically a myth. It makes literally no difference when cleaning the actual window, it’s the brush that’s doing the cleaning, along with water.
We only use pure for its lack of spotting upon evaporation.
Hot doesn’t work any better with dirt, but does work better on bird muck etc. And of course food.
It’s just I never clean food off windows so went back to cold as it’s so much cheaper and don’t get any less work done.
Each to there own :D
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Thing is Zesty I can afford the 5 bags for the heater m8 so it’s no biggy for me m8 if it goes bang I’ll just order another 1 😉
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I’ve never heard from anyone that’s had a brand new 9kw 2 man heater and insisted it was stripped from the van coz it wasn’t any better than cold have you,I think the last bloke that said that was also selling rocking horse crap buy the 25ltr bag.
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I’ve never heard from anyone that’s had a brand new 9kw 2 man heater and insisted it was stripped from the van coz it wasn’t any better than cold have you,I think the last bloke that said that was also selling rocking horse crap buy the 25ltr bag.
I think you’ve been buying it off him and feeding on it 🗣💩💩💩💩🤣
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The thing is all these people saying detrimental things about hot water systems haven’t owned 1 🤣🤣🔔🔚s
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The thing is all these people saying detrimental things about hot water systems haven’t owned 1 🤣🤣🔔🔚s
That's just your insecurity complex...
The general opinion is that we would benefit from hot but not at 5k - spending that amount is your choice, it's sad you need to justify it on virtually every post you make
Darran
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The thing is all these people saying detrimental things about hot water systems haven’t owned 1 🤣🤣🔔🔚s
Wrong.
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Nigel, it’s not about affording it, it’s about where your money goes.
My money goes on my family, mortgage, home improvements, holidays, hobbies etc etc.
So to me, spending £5k on something that makes absolutely no difference what so ever to my working day, is pointless. There is such little gain to be had.
All it would do for me is mean I earn less profit. Because my experience was not earning any more with hot. Nor doing any more houses. It’s an expensive luxury for the sake of 3 months of the year.
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I can’t believe people are still having this debate with him. What a complete waste of your own time and energy.
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I can’t believe people are still having this debate with him. What a complete waste of your own time and energy.
It’s quite enjoyable mate, especially when is brings out his arrogance and insecurity 😀
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It’s obvious what type of person he is. He the absolute expert on every issue that he posts on. Vans, tyres, hot water, prices, mortgages, investing....... the list goes on.
99.5% of his posts are absolute drivel.
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Deege - you are absolutely right - but I suppose I live in hope to one day have a sensible debate on the subject
( something thats very rare on forums at the best of times )
Darran
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Deege - you are absolutely right - but I suppose I live in hope to one day have a sensible debate on the subject
( something thats very rare on forums at the best of times )
Darran
It’s getting rarer too, because people are allowed to out-shout others on every subject, which inevitably drives some of the better posters away. Which is a shame.
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Deege - you are absolutely right - but I suppose I live in hope to one day have a sensible debate on the subject
( something thats very rare on forums at the best of times )
Darran
It’s getting rarer too, because people are allowed to out-shout others on every subject, which inevitably drives some of the better posters away. Which is a shame.
That is a good point, this forum is not very well ‘policed’. It does get very school boy playground at times.
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It’s not about the money my money goes on family mortgage etc I would say reading that it’s about the “money” then.
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I think if I was full time cold I’d look into getting a nice 4x4 but it’s not possible with a hot system.
Could a high top truckman canopy not solve that issue ?
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So in conclusion to the hot water debate. If your workload, type of work and the climate you work in dictates it's need or is beneficial then go for it. If you're watching the £'s , can get by without and are happy to continue that way then don't. Who cares, no rights or wrongs.
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It’s not about the money my money goes on family mortgage etc I would say reading that it’s about the “money” then.
Well, you do not have any hobbies to spend your money on as you are permanently logged in to this forum. Beats me how you actually manage to fit any work in.
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So in conclusion to the hot water debate. If your workload, type of work and the climate you work in dictates it's need or is beneficial then go for it. If you're watching the £'s , can get by without and are happy to continue that way then don't. Who cares, no rights or wrongs.
I would say to anyone starting out first thing you need to do is obviously go WFP and then whenever finances allow get a hot system.
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Simply not true point 2
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And I’m trying to sell the things ;D
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And I’m trying to sell the things ;D
How long now Rich?
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And I’m trying to sell the things ;D
How long now Rich?
To a point ready now really , but having issues with getting parts in !
I’m taking the time to make it more compact and keep the same output , I’m going to be firing this one up this afternoon
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1609685349_61C865A8-FE8A-4BEF-A472-E2E78873CD10.png)
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Stick it on YouTube
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check my van you say? too late 8), ice particles in my tank which i never drained cos i got caught out,oil filled radiator purchased which is now defrosting the inside of my van,been-6 most nights around here
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I’m just about to check mine ;D
Last minute Bob as usual ::)roll
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Stick it on YouTube
I might depending on the results ;D
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Just checked my van, both my pump strainers have cracked, great start to the year £20 out of pocket and i ain't even cleaned a window yet ;D
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Just checked mine frost stat still on 🤣🤣
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Just checked mine frost stat still on 🤣🤣
👍👍
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Just checked mine frost stat still on 🤣🤣
I used to put an oil filled radiator in mine to stop the frost stat from kicking in, it used to wake the neighbours up.
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And I’m trying to sell the things ;D
How long now Rich?
To a point ready now really , but having issues with getting parts in !
I’m taking the time to make it more compact and keep the same output , I’m going to be firing this one up this afternoon
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1609685349_61C865A8-FE8A-4BEF-A472-E2E78873CD10.png)
Let me know when you are ready with them Rich, i think you got my number.
Cheers
Shaun
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We are looking good with the latest design , 10*c into the heater 50*c out
That should mean winter temps will mean at least 35*c at the brush rising as the day goes on ;D
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We are looking good with the latest design , 10*c into the heater 50*c out
That should mean winter temps will mean at least 35*c at the brush rising as the day goes on ;D
Perfect rich!
I’m still up for one for my backup vehicle. Let us know when they’re good to go. You’ll have a big waiting list I bet.