Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on November 08, 2020, 01:40:39 pm
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Back in the day, you bought a second hand van, the best you could afford, printed a few flyers off at home, cobbled a system together then went doorknocking probably basing your prices on other cleaners.
These days the lads round my area invest in a brand new van, fully fitted system, embroidered uniforms, four colour double sided flyers, rent a unit, go on a training course and jump straight in with massive prices.
If you were starting out again which approach would you use?
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I’ve not seen anyone in my area start up like that Dave, other than two guys who’s one dad effectively bought them a window cleaning business.
I’d do it the same way I started, build up with minimal cost, and no debt.
Then again, if I knew I’d be where I am today at 32, when I was 21 years old, I’d have pushed for WFP, website, van and branding much sooner than I did!
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I must admit that I wasted a lot of money to start with by buying a fully working trailer system with r/o. I should have sold my Suzuki Van and purchased a bigger van and gone van mount long before I did. It did teach me what wfp window cleaning is all about and how things work though.
I'm a great believer in never counting your chickens before they hatch so I would tend to go down the minimalist route. I would not go backpack and/or trolley with 25l plastic containers of water like some do though. Having a brand new van is very appealing but I just couldn't deal with the debt, especially considering the uncertain times we live in now.
I would have gone to a 4040 sooner than I did. Having a restricted water supply did throttle my growth in those early years of wfp when I had the energy to grow the business more.
I've often thought about uniforms and sign written vans. I've never worn a uniform with my name on it or had my vans sign written. Things are different to what they were 15 years ago - so maybe I would have to change with the times. I think people expect more.
We canvassed from door to door for work and made good use of asking existing customers for contacts and referrals. Today its all about a website, Facebook and leaflet drops. Nobody wants to work on the coal face anymore.
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If i stand outside in the morning throw a stick theres a good chance i would hit another window cleaner, at least half of them have brand new vans, there eeverywhere now
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I reckon I did everything the hard way.....trad for 17 years with old vans and cars then the same with wfp,cheap systems,barrels,trolleys,backpacks,DIY gas hot water systems,etc,fibreglass and aluminium poles....the list goes on.....
I have decent equipment and van now and it makes day to day working life easier....
If I had to start again?I wouldnt change a thing.....sometimes learning the hard way reaps it's own benefits in the end....
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I reckon there’ll be quite a few (more than usual) new van/systems for sale this winter. The amount of new start ups with the brand new systems is staggering.
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Only one way to learn a biz - from the ground up - learn the value of equipment and customer service - without the practical experience you just can't figure out what's going wrong
buying all this equipment just means you have to earn more and more before breaking even - its a recipe for failure
Darran
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Thats because window cleaners are starting to come out of the dark ages and are treating it more like any other business that requires investment and good marketing.
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I reckon there’ll be quite a few (more than usual) new van/systems for sale this winter. The amount of new start ups with the brand new systems is staggering.
the hard part is getting the good,solid work/income week in/week out.......
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It’s the wrong time of year for anyone to start window cleaning the cold sees off 75% if they aren’t used to working outdoors,the other 20% soon realise the new van and equipment doesn’t get you solid decent regular work.
The 5% may have bought work build it up and stick at it,as many new vans that you see out and about you may soon see for sale within the next year or so I wouldn’t get panicky yet.
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Thats because window cleaners are starting to come out of the dark ages and are treating it more like any other business that requires investment and good marketing.
There’s defo been a large increase in window cleansers over the last 10 years or so.
Though I agree that it seems like a huge amount more, due to many branding up and driving bigger, smarter, sign written vans. A lot of these guys have been windows cleaners for donkeys, it’s just that in recent times, everyone’s gone down the branding route.
Wfp was the catalyst, it meant anyone could do it, but also kind of forces you into a bigger, better van, which lends itself to branding and growth.
The other problem is this forum - we hear so much about £3-500 days, that anyone scanning the net and seeing the threads on money jumps at window cleaning ;D
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When starting up I spent 20k plus and there was no way I wasn't getting that money back, if it had been a small amount that I could have walked away from I don't think I would have lasted a year, spending a large amount can also be a excellent motivator to push on when the reality of window cleaning hits home.
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When starting up I spent 20k plus and there was no way I wasn't getting that money back, if it had been a small amount that I could have walked away from I don't think I would have lasted a year, spending a large amount can also be a excellent motivator to push on when the reality of window cleaning hits home.
That's my take too. The more you invest, the more determination you have. I started though with an Escort van with no brakes and a crappy Xtel pole and Pure Freedom trolley. Eleven years ago now. I did weigh up ladders v WFP when I started and only went WFP because there are so many three storey houses. In around my first or second week I met the BFG.
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It looks easy with a pole but it’s still hard work and you still have to get the right or enough work to make it pay,as soon as they start they realise and they vanish if they didn’t you’d hardly get any enquires if every start up carried on.
Loans and redundancy nearly always pay for these new vehicles etc,like I say you can have the best setup in the world far better than most but that won’t get you the work.
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When starting up I spent 20k plus and there was no way I wasn't getting that money back, if it had been a small amount that I could have walked away from I don't think I would have lasted a year, spending a large amount can also be a excellent motivator to push on when the reality of window cleaning hits home.
im sure thats the attitude of all that start up - the problem comes when you spend that 20k and have no customers to earn a crust - also your under a lot of pressure to take all sorts of crap work - if you can get started on 2 to 3 grand - use some other to them promote the business and the balance in reserve to keep paying the bills
for example - a guy started up got a new van full iconic hot system - fab graphics on the van - look great - I think the cost came in at 50k - several months later I got a call from a large care home to quote - turns out this guy had stopped - when I quoted I was told no way are they paying that - he was doing a full day at the site for £90 :-X
Thats just not viable
Darran
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This is just my point they undercut people and then down the line realise it’s not paying the guy would probably be paying in the region of 800 a month for that setup on a plan from them,anyone that drives away with a setup like that more often than not have been sold something that in reality is years down the line.
A brand new van and hot water won’t guarantee you decent work year on year as we all know.
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This is just my point they undercut people and then down the line realise it’s not paying the guy would probably be paying in the region of 800 a month for that setup on a plan from them,anyone that drives away with a setup like that more often than not have been sold something that in reality is years down the line.
A brand new van and hot water won’t guarantee you decent work year on year as we all know.
Who gets all decent work when starting out ? like most I did more than my fair share of crap paying work when starting out and it helped pay the bills until better came along, but I do agree that having an £800 a month debt without the means to cover it until the business starts to pay its way will put a lot of pressure on a new start.
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Unless someone is buying work to start off with its very difficult to get going I’m not saying you can’t do it but a very different scenario,I think the ones that you’ll see stick at it have purchased work and at least have something to build on the others just fall by the wayside when they realise how hard it is from scratch. To start from scratch these days you literally need to have nothing to lose as far as bills being paid etc ie living at home etc,I’m not interested in being undercut but the likes of 50% that tells me who they are without looking.
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Gardiners website had a message all last week on its home page advising that delivery of stuff would be upto 3 days due to high demand. I've never known them take that long and just reflects how many newbies they're are out there.
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Nothing to do with the fact that they can’t get bits imported and the posting process is slower at the moment then lol,I don’t think you’ll find the delay is down to all and sundry wanting to start window cleaning me old m8.
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Nothing to do with the fact that they can’t get bits imported and the posting process is slower at the moment then lol,I don’t think you’ll find the delay is down to all and sundry wanting to start window cleaning me old m8.
In which case they wouldn't have specifically mentioned "high demand". Letter post is definitely slower at the mo, I'm getting most parcels though as quick as ever.
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Got a bank loan 8 years ago, quit my job, bought a round, second hand van and have never looked back. Just wish I'd done it sooner TBH.
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The above scenario is what makes someone stick at it they’ve invested money so they are serious about giving it a go,I never worry about the chancers that just get a bucket and ladder or brand new van come to that and just start knocking doors.
If a customer jumps ship for the sake of saving a few quid when you’ve done their windows for years they ain’t worth having anyway,it my mind it would be good riddance.
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I started at the bottom.....
11 year later..........
I'm still there ;D
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if you had said to me 10 years ago that you could earn £300 for 5 hours of maintenance window cleaning work id have called you a liar......same for earning £1200-£1500 for a 30 hour week mon-fri.........i can earn that with ease some weeks these days.....
a newbie?....not a chance for a good few years(at least!).......
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what I find amusing , is that sometimes a new start up with a nice shiny van will give me a daggers look, like how dare I be window cleaning in the same area.....I started in 19 91.......
some of them were not born, or in nursery when I started....
what I have noticed is that a lot of the new start ups ... need to push more for add ons to fill their week up....
nothing wrong with that, I do a fair bit march through to october myself , but (only for regular customers mainly } also , I know they can charge silly prices which is bonkers.
I think they struggle in the winter months if they dont have enough window cleaning work...
for me , the window cleaning is the back bone , the bread and butter . the extras are the cream.
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Gardiners website had a message all last week on its home page advising that delivery of stuff would be upto 3 days due to high demand. I've never known them take that long and just reflects how many newbies they're are out there.
Pure Freedom are the same. Had too wait three weeks for a system. It’s all a result of window cleaners spending their self employed grants. Those that worked through and claimed the grant buying electric reels.
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what I find amusing , is that sometimes a new start up with a nice shiny van will give me a daggers look, like how dare I be window cleaning in the same area.....I started in 19 91.......
some of them were not born, or in nursery when I started....
what I have noticed is that a lot of the new start ups ... need to push more for add ons to fill their week up....
nothing wrong with that, I do a fair bit march through to october myself , but (only for regular customers mainly } also , I know they can charge silly prices which is bonkers.
I think they struggle in the winter months if they dont have enough window cleaning work...
for me , the window cleaning is the back bone , the bread and butter . the extras are the cream.
If they haven’t got enough for the winter they can’t have much work then can they lol,blimey bit of dodgy weather in the winter and you should be way behind. I just think in general people assume it’s easy to start cleaning windows the bottom line is it takes months to get some work but it takes years to make it a proper paying on time business,it’s only in the last 5-10 years it’s been realised in the general public’s eyes that you can actually earn a decent living from it and that’s my honest opinion.
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Got a bank loan 8 years ago, quit my job, bought a round, second hand van and have never looked back. Just wish I'd done it sooner TBH.
Maybe it wouldn't have worked out if you started it sooner. I believe that 8 years ago was the right time for you to start.
I often think I should have started 25 years ago when the opportunity was staring me in the face. But I wasn't ready for it in many ways. It was all trad working in those days. I could have fallen off my ladder and been disabled or even dead now.
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About 25 years ago, I had to borrow some ladders off a mate because I managed to lock myself out of my brothers first floor flat.
Carrying the ladders all of 1/4 mile no less than five women came running out of their front doors asking if I would start doing theirs. I remember thinking “crikey, there’s an opportunity here”.
I think that was lodged in the back of my mind when I got the heave ho ten years ago.
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I've wasted a fortune on crap and cleaned the worst properties you could ever imagine...for no money!
It's the easiest thing in the world to clean windows.
The hard part is building a compact, well priced, round with good customers, that are loyal, respectful and actually want you to clean their windows.
I've built my round the hard way. Would I change a thing...absolutely not.
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That crap you cleaned once is what makes all those start ups fail and walk off scratching their heads because they think the majority of the work is like that because that’s all they are getting with either some sort of lead generation or a cheap website,there’s no quick way to get cream work you can get work-jobs but you won’t get what I call quality work till you’ve been at it years.
Big setups with multiple vans lots of work maybe but most of it is not the sort of work I’d want to be doing every day-week,I can’t think of anything worse than having to worry about dealing with cancellations day in day out due to having to run my cleaners ragged for the sake of the turnover.
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if I was starting from scratch today ...... I would go door knocking , just as I did when I started in 1991.
I would base it all on numbers and percentages.....
probably along the lines of a 30% drop off of all new customers due to being messers / bad payers.
I think most newbies rely on social media which from my experience has a 50% amount of messers.
however unlike when I started out knocking on all types , this time around I would only knock on certain types of properties.
ie { no bloody plant pots } lol
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Most of em have all the gear and no idea watched a couple to day who ive not seen on a new estate it was like watching the chucle brothers
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Most of em have all the gear and no idea watched a couple to day who ive not seen on a new estate it was like watching the chucle brothers
like us when i started lol.... didnt have a clue
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Most of em have all the gear and no idea watched a couple to day who ive not seen on a new estate it was like watching the chucle brothers
That's the best/ funniest post you ve ever posted mate.....keep it up!it did make me 'chuckle'!👍🤣🤣🤣