Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mac74 on September 09, 2020, 08:29:58 pm
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
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Be aware that higher current flow will require thicker cables otherwise you will get more voltage drop!
Make sure all cable connections are made well and tight. Any resistance in connections will reduce the voltage and will be more pronounced the higher the load.
I would have guessed that you need a higher controller setting for 6mm but I am surprised it's that much higher.
If it's cutting in and out on the pump not the controller maybe your pump micro switch needs a tweek?
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
Microbore is near enough half the size of minibore. There is a limit to how fast you can push water through a long narrow hose. Once the water rushing through the pipe becomes turbulent then increasing pressure doesn't increase the rate of flow proportionately.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=206988.msg1834274#msg1834274
Unfortunately one of the links in this thread posted doesn't work any longer.
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This is why I stick to 8mm, it’s the nuts! High flow, less amp draw, love it.
Hated 6mm.
;D
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Ive got a new shurflo 100psi 6.4L per minute in stock, i wonder if the extra 1.4 L flo would make much difference? bit of a faff to change though. Cheers m
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This is why I stick to 8mm, it’s the nuts! High flow, less amp draw, love it.
Hated 6mm.
;D
6mm is easier to manage than 8mm. But flow is definitely restricted more.
Ive got a new shurflo 100psi 6.4L per minute in stock, i wonder if the extra 1.4 L flo would make much difference? bit of a faff to change though. Cheers m
Its not about what the pump. Its about what the hose will allow.
One of the local lads bought a 12lpm pump hoping that it would revolutionise his cleaning by flooding the cleaned window with rinse water. It didn't as his hose couldn't accommodate the flow rate.
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
i really dont understand why some window cleaners have flow trouble with microbore.........i use 100m microbore and my flow controller is on 45 and its gushing out of the jets on that setting,plenty for regular window cleaning...i can drain my 500L tank in 5 or 6 hours......
i use a water genie 5L 100psi pump and a V11 controller,2 x 105ah numax leisure batteries and hot water.........i never ever have a problem with flow,power draw,etc.....
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
i really dont understand why some window cleaners have flow trouble with microbore.........i use 100m microbore and my flow controller is on 45 and its gushing out of the jets on that setting,plenty for regular window cleaning...i can drain my 500L tank in 5 or 6 hours......
i use a water genie 5L 100psi pump and a V11 controller,2 x 105ah numax leisure batteries and hot water.........i never ever have a problem with flow,power draw,etc.....
Have you used 8mm to compare it to 6mm?
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I use to clean a building that was 200 metres long in one direction and ran 250m on an Ionic hosereel with Flojet pump no problems with flow rate. I run 100m on elecie hose reel but prefer to use 10mm pole hose external with 8mm internally for commercial and large panes of glass as the flow rate is more than enough. Using 6mm internal pole hose is sufficient but not "as good" as 8mm internal pose hose :)
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
i really dont understand why some window cleaners have flow trouble with microbore.........i use 100m microbore and my flow controller is on 45 and its gushing out of the jets on that setting,plenty for regular window cleaning...i can drain my 500L tank in 5 or 6 hours......
i use a water genie 5L 100psi pump and a V11 controller,2 x 105ah numax leisure batteries and hot water.........i never ever have a problem with flow,power draw,etc.....
Have you used 8mm to compare it to 6mm?
of course i have...i used to use red 8mm thermobore hose...absolute nightmare to use.....far too heavy to be dragging around every day...i never even noticed a difference in flow rate between the two......
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Well ive noticed a big difference in the flow rate defo! as well as my mate has on his system. BUT we are comparing my current xline 60m of 8mm to 100m of 6mm the circuit hydraulics brand (which is slightly thinner than other microbore hose imo). I don't want 2 cut it down to 80m - 70m yet, but i doubt taking 20 or even 30m's off it would make that much difference on the flow rate?
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I use 100m of gardiner microbore and have no trouble with flow. My varistream is on flow 4 out of 10 and is gushing out with 2mm pencil jets. Barely noticed any difference at all from 8mm minibore, if I remember correctly I just had to up the pressure cut off value one notch.
I reckon your hose may be less than 6mm internal. Have you checked it?
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
i really dont understand why some window cleaners have flow trouble with microbore.........i use 100m microbore and my flow controller is on 45 and its gushing out of the jets on that setting,plenty for regular window cleaning...i can drain my 500L tank in 5 or 6 hours......
i use a water genie 5L 100psi pump and a V11 controller,2 x 105ah numax leisure batteries and hot water.........i never ever have a problem with flow,power draw,etc.....
Because he uses hot water.
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I have a purefreedom van mounted system,I changed from 8mm to 6mm without any issues,going from memory all I had to was up the calibration and flow a bit,hasn't missed a beat since
I will probably have to up the calibration in winter but that's no different to using 8mm
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I use 100m of gardiner microbore and have no trouble with flow. My varistream is on flow 4 out of 10 and is gushing out with 2mm pencil jets. Barely noticed any difference at all from 8mm minibore, if I remember correctly I just had to up the pressure cut off value one notch.
I reckon your hose may be less than 6mm internal. Have you checked it?
The o/p is pushing his flow up around where we would if we were on 7 or 8 on our Varistreams. 90 on a Spring controller is near enough boost on our Varistreams.
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This is why I stick to 8mm, it’s the nuts! High flow, less amp draw, love it.
Hated 6mm.
;D
6mm is easier to manage than 8mm. But flow is definitely restricted more.
Ive got a new shurflo 100psi 6.4L per minute in stock, i wonder if the extra 1.4 L flo would make much difference? bit of a faff to change though. Cheers m
Its not about what the pump. Its about what the hose will allow.
One of the local lads bought a 12lpm pump hoping that it would revolutionise his cleaning by flooding the cleaned window with rinse water. It didn't as his hose couldn't accommodate the flow rate.
I don’t notice the extra weight of 8mm spruce, having an electric hose reel makes it a breeze.
Even dragging the hose out is hardly much different, not enough for me to want 6mm anyway.
It’s all personal preference, I just live high flow. Makes work so much easier!
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
Something is not right somewhere......a new controller,battery and pump will solve your problems I bet.....
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Ive just tested 100m of 6mm (from Ciruit Hydraulics) microbore, a change over from my normal 8mm minibore, and it didn't work very well on my setup, i noticed power/flow drop straight away. I use a shurflo 5L, a v9 controller and 2mm pencil jets, and when running the 6mm on 90speed it made my controller drop to 11.3v under load @5amp draw, and a poor power/flo rate, raising the speed to 99 made the pump stutter on and off, and was unusable. I tried adjusting the cal value on the controller and it didn't improve anything (i normally run my 60m of 8mm on 80 speed @ 12.0v drop under load @3.4amp draw) and when turning the tap off the batt recovers back to 12.6v, on ether hoses on test. I realise im pumping down a longer 100m of 6mm other than the 60m of 8mm, so i know there will be a difference, but this much? Im thinking my old v9 controller may be a slight problem, because you get the batt flash up often under 12v draw causing power issues anyway, but when i tested the above 6mm reel out on a friends setup (his shurflo 5L & V11 controller) his controller only dropped to 12.0v under load, but the flow was still a lot slower than his normal 8mm too. The new setup i was looking for, is this 100m of 6mm microbore i bought, cut down to 80 meters for my new leccy reel. Thanks m
Good Morning Mac
As Spruce commented the new hose is half the diameter compared to your previous hose. This reduces the amount of water the hose can carry. A hose has a maximum capacity of water it can carry once that is reached turning the flow up makes no difference. Its a bit like trying to pour a bucket full of water down a straw in one go. To pour a large volume of water into a small pipe it needs to be poured slowly.
Also once the hose reaches this max capacity trying to push more water in means that the hose is now in effect working against the pump. The reason the current draw has doubled is because the pump is trying to force more water into the hose than it can carry. Putting a larger volume pump on will make the situation worse. Because the restriction of the hose
means water is forced back to ward the pump and will be working against its self.
To get good flow the flow rate in the controller needs to be turned down. for the smaller ID hose to work effectively. If you wanting more volume of water than a larger ID hose is the answer
Spruce Mention Turbulent flow this is the point where the hose has reached max capacity and then water flows back toward the pump which reduces flow but increases current draw. This Blog covers it http://springltd.co/blog/84/flow-resistance-and-volume
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So basically Ian, 8mm rules ;D
On a serious note, if you want high flow, you need 8mm. If you want ok flow, 6mm is fine.
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I’ve just taken delivery of a second hand back up vehicle from Smudger off here. I typically have 8 mm hose and a 10LPM pump on my main van.
Smudgers van came with a 6mm setup at 5.2LPM, it pumps water out faster than I’ve ever had in my 12/13 years WFP.
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And it’s got a shitty little battery on it.
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So basically Ian, 8mm rules ;D
On a serious note, if you want high flow, you need 8mm. If you want ok flow, 6mm is fine.
In a nut shell yes :)
If you want more water volume than a larger ID hose will be better than a smaller ID.
The smaller ID can give good flow but will need to run at a lower flow setting. Flow dynamics works in strange ways. A smaller ID means less water can pass through the hose but will move faster,compared to a larger ID. An example is an open hose with a litre of water a minute at the end. Squeezing the end to restrict it makes the water move faster and creates a jet. But the amount of water sprayed falls because there is less space.
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Thanks for all replies chaps, ive now managed to get rid of the 6mm 100m at a small loss. I must have been one of the unlucky ones where 6mm dosen't work well? Never mind i am still glad i gave it ago, but a lesson learned, i will be sticking with the 8mm. Cheers m
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If you are after more water flow on 6mm hose reel the answer is to turn up the calibration number rather than the flow rate number. Turn up the flow number makes very little difference but turning up the calibration increases the water volume much more .
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If you are after more water flow on 6mm hose reel the answer is to turn up the calibration number rather than the flow rate number. Turn up the flow number makes very little difference but turning up the calibration increases the water volume much more .
I did try that, my controller cal setting was originally on 45 with the 8mm, so i turned it up to 70 for the 6mm and it didn't make any difference? I was once told by a tech at P.F that having the cal setting up to much can burn out the controller, so try not to go above 50 on it?
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If you are after more water flow on 6mm hose reel the answer is to turn up the calibration number rather than the flow rate number. Turn up the flow number makes very little difference but turning up the calibration increases the water volume much more .
I did try that, my controller cal setting was originally on 45 with the 8mm, so i turned it up to 70 for the 6mm and it didn't make any difference? I was once told by a tech at P.F that having the cal setting up to much can burn out the controller, so try not to go above 50 on it?
Sometimes the boys say some strange things.
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If you are after more water flow on 6mm hose reel the answer is to turn up the calibration number rather than the flow rate number. Turn up the flow number makes very little difference but turning up the calibration increases the water volume much more .
I did try that, my controller cal setting was originally on 45 with the 8mm, so i turned it up to 70 for the 6mm and it didn't make any difference? I was once told by a tech at P.F that having the cal setting up to much can burn out the controller, so try not to go above 50 on it?
Changing the calibration does not have a direct effect on water Volume ( Different to flow) EG I can pour 1 litre of water slowly or fast but the amount of water remains 1 litre But i can can choose to pour at different speeds ( Flow)
Increasing the calibration makes the controller less sensitive and means the controller takes longer to dead end the pump when a valve is closed. Calibration needs to change in relation to how hard the pump is running. So the higher the flow rate the more current the pump draws and the higher the cal value will be. Running a pump at 99 flow and 99 calibration means the pump is working very hard and generating a lot of heat. The hotter the pump motor get in some cases may mean this heat may shorten the pumps life.
Water Flow and Water Volume are different based on the initial post. The water volume will be dictated by the ID of the hose so reducing the ID of a hose will mean it can carry less water. As an example if the hose can carry 1 litre in volume a minute as a maximum. Running the pump harder by increasing flow rate will not change this. The only way to get more water volume is to use a larger ID hose which can carry 1.5 litres a minute.
In terms of flow rate a 6mm ID hose carrying 1 LPM could be running at 50 and the 8mm hose carrying 1.5LPM could also be running at 50 .
Hope this helps