Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: MrWindowClean on August 25, 2020, 10:17:35 am
-
What does everyone do in the way of paying staff if you are rained off?
-
You need to pay them what they are contracted for.
We do 8 hour days, so they get paid 8 hours if they can't work. TBH the only time that has happen is when we had all that snow.
-
Flexi time contract - if we're rained off the hours are made up over a few days - so technically no pay
Darran
-
You need to pay them what they are contracted for.
We do 8 hour days, so they get paid 8 hours if they can't work. TBH the only time that has happen is when we had all that snow.
are you really sending them out in this?its very wet and windy here....even i wouldnt attempt to clean my customers windows in this......apart from it being a miserable experience i wouldnt be confident of doing a good job.....
-
You need to pay them what they are contracted for.
We do 8 hour days, so they get paid 8 hours if they can't work. TBH the only time that has happen is when we had all that snow.
are you really sending them out in this?its very wet and windy here....even i wouldnt attempt to clean my customers windows in this......apart from it being a miserable experience i wouldnt be confident of doing a good job.....
Same as rain not too bad here today but storm francis would blow dust and debris all over my freshly cleaned wet windows and doubt golf club be too happy with that 🙈
-
Our staff get full pay if rained off or bad weather.
We would find it almost impossible to try and make up a day or two, plus it can cause unnecessary stress.
The way I look at it is if you have good employees, look after them and they will hopefully look after you.
Life's too short worrying about a few odd days a year not covering your costs.
Over the full year it all works out ok.
Steve
-
We've never not worked due to wind and rain so therefore staff work as normal and get paid
-
we work all weather all year around rain, high wind, or snow makes no difference
the only time we dont work is if we cant get the van off the forecourt.
if that were the case they'd be sent home and only get paid for the hours they were in. i usually offer if they want to work and do leafleting instead they can. they never want to
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
I agree, it's a joke.
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
And the employees, as well. Are they getting comfort breaks? A change of clothes?
Get the union in.
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
no we dont get complaints.
customers are used to us coming reliably all weather
sometimes new customers will query it, but we just explain their windows should be fine, but if there's any problem give us a call and we'll pop back and reclean them, no quibbles
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
no we dont get complaints.
customers are used to us coming reliably all weather
sometimes new customers will query it, but we just explain their windows should be fine, but if there's any problem give us a call and we'll pop back and reclean them, no quibbles
My windows look absolutely 💩 after the last few days weather. I certainly wouldn’t want some numpty rocking up telling me he’s come to clean my windows in pi55ing down rain and high winds and telling me they’ll be fine because if you know what’s what you’ll know they won’t be fine.
-
It’s called desperation and the fact they have to go out to earn enough for it to work when employing,if you had 1-2 employees the vast majority of the time you wouldn’t need to do this. How many days do you get in a year that you need to send workers out when it’s raining stair rods,when it’s windy and raining like that imo that’s not right.
-
It’s called desperation and the fact they have to go out to earn enough for it to work when employing,if you had 1-2 employees the vast majority of the time you wouldn’t need to do this. How many days do you get in a year that you need to send workers out when it’s raining stair rods,when it’s windy and raining like that imo that’s not right.
The same could be said that desperation applied to you when lock down came along and you carried on cleaning - it's different opinions - we will clean commercial in light to medium rain - residential most certainly not - a big part of that its awful working in the rain - I don't like it, I won't do it, I don't make the staff do it, it's easy to catch up over the next day or so
Darran
-
I find it hard to believe that when you work in wet and windy conditions (meaning the rain is battering off the windows ) you don’t get customer complaints. I would go as far as saying it’s taking the P.
no we dont get complaints.
customers are used to us coming reliably all weather
sometimes new customers will query it, but we just explain their windows should be fine, but if there's any problem give us a call and we'll pop back and reclean them, no quibbles
Windows will be fine my ar$e ;D
-
Even I wouldnt work in some of the high winds and torrential rain we ve had this week.....its ok if it's a short spell and you can sit in the van until it blows over but we ve had hours and hours of it here......
-
its common sense really isnt it ?
I have had some customers over 20 years , and they are used to me working on wet days . however there are wet days ie... showers , drizzle , even heavy showers ....
then there is chucking it down all day , howling wind, like its been on thursday....
you have to have common sense when its like that. apart from getting absolutely soaked through when its that bad it is taking the pee...... I also think it makes us look silly , unproffesional and a little desperate.
-
I work in light/moderate rain only for residential. If it’s hammering it down then I wouldn’t turn up at a residential as a bit silly really. For commercial I would probably work in more moderate rain If I needed to.
As long as it’s not hammering down and blowing a Sahara dust then light rain will not affect the windows using WFP. I feel for you guys who are up north as it must rain all the fecking time and if you never worked in the rain you wouldn’t earn much in the winter. Down in Suffolk we are in the driest part of the country.
-
Don’t feel sorry for us up north . I live in Yorkshire . Like you said you live in Suffolk . Case closed .
-
:)
-
Haha there are some funny folk down here. I’m not Suffolk born and bred just somehow ended up here 😂
-
It’s called desperation and the fact they have to go out to earn enough for it to work when employing,if you had 1-2 employees the vast majority of the time you wouldn’t need to do this. How many days do you get in a year that you need to send workers out when it’s raining stair rods,when it’s windy and raining like that imo that’s not right.
The same could be said that desperation applied to you when lock down came along and you carried on cleaning - it's different opinions - we will clean commercial in light to medium rain - residential most certainly not - a big part of that its awful working in the rain - I don't like it, I won't do it, I don't make the staff do it, it's easy to catch up over the next day or so
Darran
Good post.
-
Don’t feel sorry for us up north . I live in Yorkshire . Like you said you live in Suffolk . Case closed .
Even Norfolk people laugh at Suffolk ;D
Darran
-
Wind rain blowing a gale can hardly get in the van coz the wind is constantly blowing the door shut,he shouts over his shoulder so you’ll pay the 100 online then yeah to the customer 🤣🤣,yeah that would be desperate.
I’ve always said you should earn enough when employing it should all be factored in to your overall prices,I know that and I don’t employ half a dozen people.
-
I cant see anything wrong in getting your employees to make up their lost hours up, I suspect that's how most if not all employers who rely on decent weather work it, as long as its not forced on them then another choice would be to let them use holidays to make up the shortfall.
-
When you employ you have to suck some of it up weather etc,when I look over the course of a whole year there’s not a massive amount of days you can’t work or do something like a weatherboard-roof clean. Once you’ve had weeks-months working flat out you pray for rain lol.
-
I think I'm just concerned on making things as simple and regular as possible in my business, and making a profit
our customers just aren't as bothered about us cleaning in the rain as some of the window cleaners are on here.
i try not to make assumptions about what i think my customers want and just try to listen to what happens and what effect it has on my business.
i'm sure if they weren't happy they would have mentioned it in the last 10 years. they seem happy enough to let us know when they aren't happy about other things so i just assume if they haven't moaned they aren't bothered by it.
so long as our customers are happy enough, and it makes my business simpler i'll do it
i'm happy for you chaps who want to stop work in certain weathers to carry on doing that too ;D
-
I think I'm just concerned on making things as simple and regular as possible in my business, and making a profit
our customers just aren't as bothered about us cleaning in the rain as some of the window cleaners are on here.
i try not to make assumptions about what i think my customers want and just try to listen to what happens and what effect it has on my business.
i'm sure if they weren't happy they would have mentioned it in the last 10 years. they seem happy enough to let us know when they aren't happy about other things so i just assume if they haven't moaned they aren't bothered by it.
so long as our customers are happy enough, and it makes my business simpler i'll do it
i'm happy for you chaps who want to stop work in certain weathers to carry on doing that too ;D
So your telling us that in 10 years you've worked in all.sorts of wind and rain and never had a complaint or been turned away on the doorstep by a customer because of bad weather?
-
I think Richard is trying to convince himself thats the case
Darran
-
I'm supposed to be taking on an employee shortly.
I've offered him a 30 hour per week contract. So will work 4 out of 5 days from Monday to Friday.
So should mean I can shift days about due to weather and if we only get 3 done one week then can do 5 the next and so on.
If rain stops play at say 12pm he would get paid for the hours done and catch the other hours up at the earliest convenience.
And I've told him he can do overtime if the weather allows (and I have the work)
-
I think I'm just concerned on making things as simple and regular as possible in my business, and making a profit
our customers just aren't as bothered about us cleaning in the rain as some of the window cleaners are on here.
i try not to make assumptions about what i think my customers want and just try to listen to what happens and what effect it has on my business.
i'm sure if they weren't happy they would have mentioned it in the last 10 years. they seem happy enough to let us know when they aren't happy about other things so i just assume if they haven't moaned they aren't bothered by it.
so long as our customers are happy enough, and it makes my business simpler i'll do it
i'm happy for you chaps who want to stop work in certain weathers to carry on doing that too ;D
Richard if you have lots of customers that pay 15-20 quid you may get away with it but if people are paying 80-100 quid they won’t and I wouldn’t take the Pi** by cleaning them in that kind of weather either,it was the same when I had work done on my house and the Patio layer tried to lay slabs in minus temperatures,tracksuit trainers off you go.
-
What you have to remember chaps is not everyone on CIU are cleaning domestic windows all year round. Our customer base is mostly contract commercial and the dates are agreed at the beginning of the year with the customer and stuck to. In fact the customers don't want dates cancelled they want them carried out as agreed and weather conditions really play no part in this. We've had plenty of internal work to do this week during the worst weather (internal communal windows in large blocks of city centre flats) although we've had a good soaking working outside too. Bottom line is I'd never run any business where I'd pay staff wages for doing nothing as in no income coming in wouldn't even contemplate it but I can see it may be an issue for those that only do regular domestic work in typical suburban settings. If this was the sort of work I did and employed I think I'd at least have them pressure washing or FSG cleans every time the weather went sour, but paying them for doing nothing no chance it's never going to happen. We are quite strict with working hours it's 8-5pm Mon-Fri regardless of weather hot cold wet or whatever we work.
-
Commercial is different to a degree but I still wouldn’t go out to clean windows outside in terrible weather insides obviously yes but not outsides even on commercial work,I wouldn’t turn up to clean domestic work in any rain I would at least park up and wait for it to stop and if it didn’t I’d finish for the day,like I’ve always said you should be able to do enough when the weather is ok to work in to not have to worry about the odd day unless you really need the money and if that’s the case my opinion is you need to either re think you’re work or prices.
-
Commercial is different to a degree but I still wouldn’t go out to clean windows outside in terrible weather insides obviously yes but not outsides even on commercial work,I wouldn’t turn up to clean domestic work in any rain I would at least park up and wait for it to stop and if it didn’t I’d finish for the day,like I’ve always said you should be able to do enough when the weather is ok to work in to not have to worry about the odd day unless you really need the money and if that’s the case my opinion is you need to either re think you’re work or prices.
You are assuming people Need to work in the rain, I don't think that's the case for most. They Want to work in rain because its more profitable. For most of us its all in the head, I can count on one hand the amount of times people have anything to say about me cleaning their windows in the rain yet in my mind I'm paranoid that everyone is going to sack me off which isn't the case. I've worked in some awful weather without anyone saying a word.
-
I think I'm just concerned on making things as simple and regular as possible in my business, and making a profit
our customers just aren't as bothered about us cleaning in the rain as some of the window cleaners are on here.
i try not to make assumptions about what i think my customers want and just try to listen to what happens and what effect it has on my business.
i'm sure if they weren't happy they would have mentioned it in the last 10 years. they seem happy enough to let us know when they aren't happy about other things so i just assume if they haven't moaned they aren't bothered by it.
so long as our customers are happy enough, and it makes my business simpler i'll do it
i'm happy for you chaps who want to stop work in certain weathers to carry on doing that too ;D
So your telling us that in 10 years you've worked in all.sorts of wind and rain and never had a complaint or been turned away on the doorstep by a customer because of bad weather?
No I’m not saying that.
I’ve had customers complain about all sorts in 10 years
Had quite a few complain we left windows to dry...
Had some complain we were too fast
Others complain we were too expensive
A few complain we don’t include conny roofs in a standard clean
What I am saying is we’ve been cleaning all weather for 10 years plus and it’s not been a source of significant compliants.
Sometimes a new customer complain me the first time. Sometimes they ask us to skip them. We just explain we clean all weathers, your windows will be fine when they dry, if they aren’t give us a call and we’ll clean them again
That’s it.
Like most things it’s a state of mind. If you don’t think it’s a problem the customer will go along with you.. same as DDs, or paying in advance, or WFP vs trad, or most things really.
Be as rude as you like about it but I know what we do and how our customers react.
If we lost a lot because of it we wouldn’t do it. If we got lots of complaints or call backs we wouldn’t do it.
I’m not stupid. I’m a business man. If it lost me custom I’d adjust our approach
In balance this is the best option for us. It keeps us on time for our customers. We don’t reschedule a lot. It keeps staff work days simple. They work set days and are off set days. It keeps my weekends free. I like that.
I’m sure you who haven’t tried it this way do know far better than me though. Because you’re on a forum and you can use a keyboard right? :D
-
I’m sure you who haven’t tried it this way do know far better than me though. Because you’re on a forum and you can use a keyboard right? :D
Richard - a reply just dripping in sarcasm -
I see you changed from never a complaint to not a significant number, the main thing I have learnt over the years is not all customers complain, many when unhappy do put up with a poor clean or when you clean in the rain but not happy will just jump ship as soon as another cleaning service comes along, so along with complaints take a look at your retention rates, if your bleeding customers other than moving house and deaths then somewhere they are not satisfied with your service
Darran
-
I think if it's working for you, then fair play to you Richard 8)
-
Just one word.
Goretex
-
I think I'm just concerned on making things as simple and regular as possible in my business, and making a profit
our customers just aren't as bothered about us cleaning in the rain as some of the window cleaners are on here.
i try not to make assumptions about what i think my customers want and just try to listen to what happens and what effect it has on my business.
i'm sure if they weren't happy they would have mentioned it in the last 10 years. they seem happy enough to let us know when they aren't happy about other things so i just assume if they haven't moaned they aren't bothered by it.
so long as our customers are happy enough, and it makes my business simpler i'll do it
i'm happy for you chaps who want to stop work in certain weathers to carry on doing that too ;D
Richard if you have lots of customers that pay 15-20 quid you may get away with it but if people are paying 80-100 quid they won’t and I wouldn’t take the Pi** by cleaning them in that kind of weather either,it was the same when I had work done on my house and the Patio layer tried to lay slabs in minus temperatures,tracksuit trainers off you go.
exactly mr big shot . Southern window cleaner . You can get away with cleaning loads of compact £10 / £20 jobs up here in pigeon racing land when the weather is a bit dodgey . But you darent turn up and clean a £100 southern gaff . Cos the Arrogant arsehole customer thinks you are having a giraffe.. unless you wanna sweat your b******s off cleaning the insides all day long .
-
No if they wanted the insides done as well it would be far more 🤣🤣 bit different cleaning in the Pi**ing rain when they are paying a lot more money m8,no one cares about losing a 10-20 quid job.
-
What Richard has done is shape his business to suit him. What you do is is to have lines in the sand by explaining when you take the customer on.
When a new customer queries it you explain again and they accept or they walk.
As time goes on you realise that those who stay are happy (or at least tolerate) with your way of working.
In the old days customers expected you to collect your money if they weren't in. Now they don't. The few that query it have a choice. Your way or the highway.
Same with working in bad weather.
-
Which ever way you view window cleaning as a part time job a full time job a 20 van operation you are still dealing with individual households in most cases let me tell you old days or these days the majority of people have never wanted there windows cleaning in terrible weather,just because the business you run dictates you still need to get out there in the Pi**ing rain and earn money doesn’t make it right in most cases.
Some people don’t say anything but that doesn’t mean they don’t think it don’t be confused what you need to do and what they want.
-
We are being paid to remove 6,8,12 weeks of dirt Not guarantee they are going to stay clean for another 6,8,12 weeks.
Next thing you have is the customer saying I've projected the forecast for the next seven days and we have rain forecast for Friday so I don't think I'll bother ;D
-
As far as it’s raining going to rain or been raining we live in the UK so it’s a given,you won’t change people perception on weather with window cleaning in my experience turning up and starting to clean their windows in the pouring rain won’t change,I wait for it stop fair enough but I wouldn’t turn up if it was persistent rain and looking like it wasn’t going to clear up any time soon that day.
Regardless of what the majority of customers say they don’t want them doing in the rain.
-
We are being paid to remove 6,8,12 weeks of dirt Not guarantee they are going to stay clean for another 6,8,12 weeks.
Next thing you have is the customer saying I've projected the forecast for the next seven days and we have rain forecast for Friday so I don't think I'll bother ;D
Haha - I've had that - it's due to rain tomorrow - please leave them this time
Ok so you say your removing the dirt, and it's raining or more importantly it's windy - you wash the window so it's clean two hours later the rain stops the wind has blown cr@p onto the glass - what does he customer think?
A- wow I bet my windows were clean for 5 minutes now the weather has ruined them - never mind
Or
B - that window cleaner did a poor job this time...
Darran
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
You lose 20days a year due to rain?
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
You lose 20days a year due to rain?
it must rain a lot where Gomo is from - its more like 2 or 3 here in Norfolk - anywhooo... your maths is off
lose 10 customers at 15 each is 150 x that by 12 cleans a year is £1800 never to be seen again. by cleaning the following day or over the next 2 to 3 days will mean your weekly or monthly income remains the same
Darran
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
You lose 20days a year due to rain?
me, no
doesnt matter if its 1 day or 100, the principle is the same, it was an example.
-
You don't lose the money if you don't do the work. If I decide to work in torrential rain, that's an awful day for me, and I'll never get it back.
I thought this was about paying staff anyway.
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
You lose 20days a year due to rain?
it must rain a lot where Gomo is from - its more like 2 or 3 here in Norfolk - anywhooo... your maths is off
lose 10 customers at 15 each is 150 x that by 12 cleans a year is £1800 never to be seen again. by cleaning the following day or over the next 2 to 3 days will mean your weekly or monthly income remains the same
Darran
No my maths isnt off at all, i worked it out and arrived at the same figures you just did...
20 x 250 is 5000
10 x 15 = 1800
thats 3200 a year better off working in the rain
Not sure where you are inventing 2 or 3 extra days from to catch up.
Not only that but you can replace the 10 customers you lost, you cant replace time, there only so much time in a year you can clean windows, if you lose some of it its gone.
-
Ok - I suppose it depends on what glasses you decide to wear - I prefer the long vision of keeping regular customers
Darran
-
Ok - I suppose it depends on what glasses you decide to wear - I prefer the long vision of keeping regular customers
Darran
And staff ;).
-
My customers won’t tolerate it but my clients seem ok.
-
What you are missing NWH is that we are running a business....
It boils down to this imo
If i have 20 days off due to rain at £250 a day thats £5000 lost in a year , never to be seen again.
If i decide to work those 20 days and lose 10 x £15 customers because of it then im still much better off working those days and accepting that. Now if i lost 100 customers due to working in the rain then i would probably not work in rain. Its as simple as doing the maths, which way is going to earn me the most profit at the end of the year...
I couldnt care less if the customer likes it, only that they tolerate it and pay me for it. If i started losing them left right and centre i would re think it, but it just doesnt happen on a large enough scale to worry about it.
You lose 20days a year due to rain?
me, no
doesnt matter if its 1 day or 100, the principle is the same, it was an example.
I’m not sure the principle is the same.
Most people would tolerate 2 or 3 days a year off because of weather, 20 days is basically a full working month off.
-
20 full days off due to rain lol I can’t ever remember that not down south anyway,the weather used to be a lot worse years ago all the seasons seemed as they should be the winters used to be proper cold now it’s the odd day like that,last 10 years or so the winters have seemed like 1 long end of winter- spring temperature wise.
If you’ve been in this game long enough you should be stacking up wet weather jobs if you want-need them.