Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Soupy on July 25, 2020, 07:28:40 pm
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The traffic on here seems to be a bit light recently.
My guess is that CV-19 has killed off loads of prolific posters. They did say that it targets old folk and I've always got a whiff of gammon from CIU.
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Killed off a bit dramatic
Everything has it highs and lows
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Maybe people are realising they are shooting them selves in the foot by showing every single detail about our trade on an open forem for every Tom dick and Harry to start up. It was said years ago the market is flooded with cleaners and new start ups, it will only snowball. Giving advice out to time served Windy’s is one thing but helping a newbies start a round , tell them what equipment they need, show them videos on how to clean is just asking for trouble long term.
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Maybe people are realising they are shooting them selves in the foot by showing every single detail about our trade on an open forem for every Tom dick and Harry to start up. It was said years ago the market is flooded with cleaners and new start ups, it will only snowball. Giving advice out to time served Windy’s is one thing but helping a newbies start a round , tell them what equipment they need, show them videos on how to clean is just asking for trouble long term.
That’s why I don’t ever put my website on here, or business name.
Don’t want locals snooping around my ideas/knowing what work I’ve got.
I keep it stealth on here. You never know what competition is lurking.
It’s a good forum, but by its very nature, it’s wholly repetitive. Same subjects every month or so.
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Maybe people are realising they are shooting them selves in the foot by showing every single detail about our trade on an open forem for every Tom dick and Harry to start up. It was said years ago the market is flooded with cleaners and new start ups, it will only snowball. Giving advice out to time served Windy’s is one thing but helping a newbies start a round , tell them what equipment they need, show them videos on how to clean is just asking for trouble long term.
That’s why I don’t ever put my website on here, or business name.
Don’t want locals snooping around my ideas/knowing what work I’ve got.
I keep it stealth on here. You never know what competition is lurking.
It’s a good forum, but by its very nature, it’s wholly repetitive. Same subjects every month or so.
Me too, I have in the past, then had my website plagiarised verbatim.
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Summer is usually a little quieter but I have to say from a personal perspective the raging brexit threads followed by the corvid slanging matches d then the troll have led to a lot leaving the forum or expressing a point of view
I think as the bad weather returns so will some healthy debates 🤞
Darran
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Helping others is in my mind why forums exist. Some forums are a complete and utter waste of time. However, I think this one is on the whole OK. Whether you are a Carpet, Window or Hard Floor Cleaner I think most would agree that they have got or had some good advice and help out of sensible posts on here, if I am right it must have done some good. There will always be those that lurk and there will always be the disingenuous amongst the audience but does it matter? As long as someone, somewhere has got some help out of a sensible post then it has done some good. IMHO the narcissists can just sod off and do what they like.
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Helping others is in my mind why forums exist. Some forums are a complete and utter waste of time. However, I think this one is on the whole OK. Whether you are a Carpet, Window or Hard Floor Cleaner I think most would agree that they have got or had some good advice and help out of sensible posts on here, if I am right it must have done some good. There will always be those that lurk and there will always be the disingenuous amongst the audience but does it matter? As long as someone, somewhere has got some help out of a sensible post then it has done some good. IMHO the narcissists can just sod off and do what they like.
You do a completely different job to us window cleaners so you won’t understand the market. There is a lot less Carpet / floor cleaners than window cleaners , in my town there are 4 companies that do carpet/floor cleaning. There are 15 window cleaners, you would support and advise as many carpet/cleaners as possible because you own a business that sells chemicals to them so it’s in your interest to do so and will profit massively off the back of it. IT IS NOT in a window cleaners interest to help newbies start up a window cleaning business and WILL end up losing business/new opportunities in the long term. No need for the name calling
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Sorry shriek, I think your wrong, the forum as Kev has said should be here to help, which in the most part does, but to think it will take your customers away is wrong, I bet out of all the window cleaners in the country barely 10% know of ciu
People will always start up window cleaning and the very basics don't need a forum, you need customers and to get customers you need social skills - I have found, in the early days customers to be very loyal to their current windy (when starting out) and now I'm established, quite often when ringing up to pay I told someone has tried to 'steal' my work - their words not mine
Yes we all lose the odd one here and there, we gain as well, that's customers for you, but the only way you lose a significant amount is - poor work or poor service for these you have to look at yourself not others
Darran
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I’m not saying every new window cleaner knows about ciu, but the knock on effect of helping 1 new window cleaner which then turns into a team of window cleaners etc etc on here could and will have a snowball effect long term. Kev profits from selling chemicals to cleaners so he will obviously be in favour of a million new start ups. If you google maps carpet/floor cleaners in your area or any area and compare window cleaners in your area , you’ll see a massive difference in numbers.
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Look at what happened to Royal Mail after they lost the monopoly, look at what happened to local shops (butchers,newsagents etc) after all these supermarkets started opening. Losing business is inevitable once more people want a share of the pie. Royal Mail , tescos , even Mr Pryor etc certainly wouldn’t be helping people start up the exact same business as them on a public forum because the end result is that the piece of the pie gets smaller and smaller and smaller.
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Thank god they did- look at how it exposed the absolute tragic way the post service is run - personally I think competition is a good thing - if memory serves, Starbucks always sets up near other coffee shops, not just for the sake of trying to out do the competition but raise the profile of coffee shops- where the customer sees more than one coffee shop they tend to use at least one of them where in the past may simply have not used the single shop available.
Tesco's etc.... have become what they are by giving us what we wanted when we wanted for the price we want - something the local shops failed to do (limited stock, silly opening hours like half day closing on Wednesday locking the doors at 4.45pm when the open times were till 5pm etc..)- now thankfully some have learnt this lesson by providing real quality items and personal service - I shop at the local butchers as the chicken is free range and not injected with water like the supermarket stuff - it costs more but tastes better and feeds more people
Darran
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This forum has always been slow compared to the other one so no I dont think it's a problem.
I think most noobs flock to the other forum because it's much more active and much more info is posted.
This forum is more for the seasoned window cleaner who doesn't really have much to learn. I can't say I've learned much from here I just enjoy the different characters that frequent it.
And yes Shrek is absolutely right, if you just come on this forum then you would probably not think there is much of a problem but on other forums and in particular the Facebook groups there's a new start up everyday and the information is handed out freely. It only takes one to start up, then tell his mates who tell their mates etc. Window cleaning is far too accessible these days and the arse will fall out of it eventually.
That said, it's the curse of the Internet as a whole, you can find out how to do anything online so it's probably not just limited to window cleaning but I don't think there's much we can do about it now in the digital age it's just the way the world is, everyone knows everyone's business and there's no where to hide.
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You kind of can hide Adam, to an extent...
I’m very careful about posting exactly where I live. I don’t want local competition to know much about what work I’ve got etc.
I don’t and won’t post my business name. For the reason above.
I don’t name the exact commercial jobs I’ve got, nor the car show room brand names I clean.
Now obviously the local cleaners all know who I am, and will be aware of some of the work I do. But I do try and limit it as much as possible on here.
For example, I would never say:
‘I clean (insert a commercial job) on a 4 weekly basis for (£400 or whatever) quid. Through so and so estate management company.’
Because by doing that, I’m telling everyone and anyone in my area exactly what I clean, and through whom I clean it. That’s just asking for trouble with undercuts.
So my way of using this forum is being very vague about my own business, whilst helping people with menial stuff/getting help with menial stuff, like system issues etc.
I don’t mind people knowing how much I earn (roughly) if the thread turns that way (which this forum is famous for) but I’d never tell anyone my business name, exact location, and what work I clean.
I also have to be honest, you are all my competitors, so that’s always in the back of my mind. 8) I don’t want to help other local guys set up with the same knowledge and experience I have. I don’t want more competition. I want all the commercial to myself. ;D
Obvs, if you live miles away, doesn’t really matter to me, but I suppose the point I’m making, is, I don’t want locals knowing my business.
Other than that, I’m here for the BANTS ;D
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You kind of can hide Adam, to an extent...
I’m very careful about posting exactly where I live. I don’t want local competition to know much about what work I’ve got etc.
I don’t and won’t post my business name. For the reason above.
I don’t name the exact commercial jobs I’ve got, nor the car show room brand names I clean.
Now obviously the local cleaners all know who I am, and will be aware of some of the work I do. But I do try and limit it as much as possible on here.
For example, I would never say:
‘I clean (insert a commercial job) on a 4 weekly basis for (£400 or whatever) quid. Through so and so estate management company.’
Because by doing that, I’m telling everyone and anyone in my area exactly what I clean, and through whom I clean it. That’s just asking for trouble with undercuts.
So my way of using this forum is being very vague about my own business, whilst helping people with menial stuff/getting help with menial stuff, like system issues etc.
I don’t mind people knowing how much I earn (roughly) if the thread turns that way (which this forum is famous for) but I’d never tell anyone my business name, exact location, and what work I clean.
I also have to be honest, you are all my competitors, so that’s always in the back of my mind. 8) I don’t want to help other local guys set up with the same knowledge and experience I have. I don’t want more competition. I want all the commercial to myself. ;D
Obvs, if you live miles away, doesn’t really matter to me, but I suppose the point I’m making, is, I don’t want locals knowing my business.
Other than that, I’m here for the BANTS ;D
https://youtu.be/7T5K1HxEBCU
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I’m not saying every new window cleaner knows about ciu, but the knock on effect of helping 1 new window cleaner which then turns into a team of window cleaners etc etc on here could and will have a snowball effect long term. Kev profits from selling chemicals to cleaners so he will obviously be in favour of a million new start ups. If you google maps carpet/floor cleaners in your area or any area and compare window cleaners in your area , you’ll see a massive difference in numbers.
You couldn’t be further from the truth if you tried I am afraid. Firstly you need to understand my business! I don’t sell any chemicals at all which are related to either Carpet or Window Cleaners which is at least 85% of this Forum. With hard floor cleaners on here most mainly use Hypo as their go to chemical and I don’t sell that or advocate the use of it at all. In fact I benefit financially very little from being on this forum., so much so, I would estimate the profit from actual sales from this forum at under a tenner a week. I mainly come on here to wade in with my 10p’s worth and offer advice where I can. I have however, taught over 250 people (some from this forum) to clean hard floors correctly and some of those in turn have become trade customers who do spend money with us as a company. But if I relied on this or any other forum for a living I would have gone out of business and been bankrupt many years ago! ;D
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Hi Guys,
We have noticed a higher usage in the past few months, the stats and site usage are still growing, here's a comparison to this time last year for your information:
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2019 | 168 | 3619 | 84 | 596 | 1417402 |
| May 2019 | 205 | 3516 | 99 | 472 | 1656865 |
| April 2019 | 219 | 4059 | 91 | 571 | 1479567 |
| March 2019 | 251 | 5447 | 111 | 629 | 1468102 |
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2020 | 251 | 4943 | 135 | 543 | 1587048 |
| May 2020 | 273 | 6886 | 151 | 769 | 1555357 |
| April 2020 | 258 | 7576 | 110 | 681 | 1367950 |
| March 2020 | 394 | 9202 | 135 | 981 | 1510060 |
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Hi Guys,
We have noticed a higher usage in the past few months, the stats and site usage are still growing, here's a comparison to this time last year for your information:
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2019 | 168 | 3619 | 84 | 596 | 1417402 |
| May 2019 | 205 | 3516 | 99 | 472 | 1656865 |
| April 2019 | 219 | 4059 | 91 | 571 | 1479567 |
| March 2019 | 251 | 5447 | 111 | 629 | 1468102 |
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2020 | 251 | 4943 | 135 | 543 | 1587048 |
| May 2020 | 273 | 6886 | 151 | 769 | 1555357 |
| April 2020 | 258 | 7576 | 110 | 681 | 1367950 |
| March 2020 | 394 | 9202 | 135 | 981 | 1510060 |
And that's despite Tosh disappearing ... ;D
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I’d say Nigel was a big contributor to those figures! 😂
It’s not surprising the figures went up , probably the same people spending longer on the forum as we’ve been in lockdown for months!
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🤣🤣 good forum this one all you need to know if you are starting could be found on here,there’s people on here from all parts of the country.
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Hi Guys,
We have noticed a higher usage in the past few months, the stats and site usage are still growing, here's a comparison to this time last year for your information:
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2019 | 168 | 3619 | 84 | 596 | 1417402 |
| May 2019 | 205 | 3516 | 99 | 472 | 1656865 |
| April 2019 | 219 | 4059 | 91 | 571 | 1479567 |
| March 2019 | 251 | 5447 | 111 | 629 | 1468102 |
| Month | New topics | New posts | New members | Most online at one time | Page views |
| June 2020 | 251 | 4943 | 135 | 543 | 1587048 |
| May 2020 | 273 | 6886 | 151 | 769 | 1555357 |
| April 2020 | 258 | 7576 | 110 | 681 | 1367950 |
| March 2020 | 394 | 9202 | 135 | 981 | 1510060 |
And that's despite Tosh disappearing ... ;D
CIU's loss is Twitter's gain :(.
Oh, hang on................
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I genuinely think that many of you Worry too much about a bit of competition. Most of these bods are fly by night merchants and are Virtually no risk when you compare them against Professional well established companies like yourselves.
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Helping others is in my mind why forums exist. Some forums are a complete and utter waste of time. However, I think this one is on the whole OK. Whether you are a Carpet, Window or Hard Floor Cleaner I think most would agree that they have got or had some good advice and help out of sensible posts on here, if I am right it must have done some good. There will always be those that lurk and there will always be the disingenuous amongst the audience but does it matter? As long as someone, somewhere has got some help out of a sensible post then it has done some good. IMHO the narcissists can just sod off and do what they like.
You do a completely different job to us window cleaners so you won’t understand the market. There is a lot less Carpet / floor cleaners than window cleaners , in my town there are 4 companies that do carpet/floor cleaning. There are 15 window cleaners, you would support and advise as many carpet/cleaners as possible because you own a business that sells chemicals to them so it’s in your interest to do so and will profit massively off the back of it. IT IS NOT in a window cleaners interest to help newbies start up a window cleaning business and WILL end up losing business/new opportunities in the long term. No need for the name calling
Shrek
I have been in business a long time and I totally do understand all businesses and especially competition. The fact that there are many more Window cleaners only proves that it is either easier to set up or they see it as easier to set up. The point is, that most of them trying to set up don’t understand how hard it is and what equipment is required especially if they are trying to get involved in WFP . I would imagine the majority think you just need a ladder, bucket, car with a roofrack and a chamois and off you go. The fact remains that 75% of them will either go bust or realise there is a bit more involved and it’s a bit more difficult than they thought within a month. Competition is healthy and keeps established businesses on their toes. A well established business like yours should come out fighting, embrace the challenge, then show them how it’s done and bury them ;D
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Kev ,
Your making up facts. Can you put a link up where it says 75% of new window cleaning Businesses fail please (not new businesses in general , just window cleaners).
Also , can you put a link up which shows there has been a study on what new window cleaners think they need to open a window cleaning business.
You say it’s an easy business to set up , that’s exactly why we shouldn’t be encouraging people to start up. You aren’t a window cleaner Kev , just because you have run a business for a long time. It doesn’t qualify you to know all the ins and outs of every business. Iv been a landlord for a long time, it doesn’t mean I know about renting HMO’s to students though.
From looking at the replies on this thread , I can see the majority of window cleaners think I’m in the right. But thank you for your input :)
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I don't think it matters one hoot what people put on here regards earnings etc. Theres probably a handful of new start ups each week that register for this site, and a handful of old fart window cleaners that die in that time.
Each job is just recycled.
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I don't think it matters one hoot what people put on here regards earnings etc. Theres probably a handful of new start ups each week that register for this site, and a handful of old fart window cleaners that die in that time.
Each job is just recycled.
I thought you were one.
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Likewise.
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Likewise.
You thought you were dead?
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Kev ,
Your making up facts. Can you put a link up where it says 75% of new window cleaning Businesses fail please (not new businesses in general , just window cleaners).
Also , can you put a link up which shows there has been a study on what new window cleaners think they need to open a window cleaning business.
You say it’s an easy business to set up , that’s exactly why we shouldn’t be encouraging people to start up. You aren’t a window cleaner Kev , just because you have run a business for a long time. It doesn’t qualify you to know all the ins and outs of every business. Iv been a landlord for a long time, it doesn’t mean I know about renting HMO’s to students though.
From looking at the replies on this thread , I can see the majority of window cleaners think I’m in the right. But thank you for your input :)
You need to read my post again carefully! I don’t need to quote %’s and neither did I look them up because Business is Business and for as long as I can remember nothing has changed in the most common reason for failure of ANY business is lack of demand. If there is not the demand, you will go out of business, no matter how big you are or what business you are in, that was in reply to your first post where you were saying your area couldn’t support another X amount of window cleaners. All I said was that a well established well run business would survive, and new businesses wouldn’t. This is a fact regardless of what business you run
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Kev ,
Your making up facts. Can you put a link up where it says 75% of new window cleaning Businesses fail please (not new businesses in general , just window cleaners).
Also , can you put a link up which shows there has been a study on what new window cleaners think they need to open a window cleaning business.
You say it’s an easy business to set up , that’s exactly why we shouldn’t be encouraging people to start up. You aren’t a window cleaner Kev , just because you have run a business for a long time. It doesn’t qualify you to know all the ins and outs of every business. Iv been a landlord for a long time, it doesn’t mean I know about renting HMO’s to students though.
From looking at the replies on this thread , I can see the majority of window cleaners think I’m in the right. But thank you for your input :)
You need to read my post again carefully! I don’t need to quote %’s and neither did I look them up because Business is Business and for as long as I can remember nothing has changed in the most common reason for failure of ANY business is lack of demand. If there is not the demand, you will go out of business, no matter how big you are or what business you are in, that was in reply to your first post where you were saying your area couldn’t support another X amount of window cleaners. All I said was that a well established well run business would survive, and new businesses wouldn’t. This is a fact regardless of what business you run
You stated 75% of businesses fail , show me where this applies to window cleaning . You can’t come on here stating facts and then can’t back them up.
You stated we should be helping newbies start window cleaning and not to worry because 75% will fail. Maybe if you show me proof of this then il believe you , I actually care about my industry and want to protect it from being watered down with too many in it.
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Sorry but I wouldn’t be helping any newbie in my area,why would you why not give them your PIN number while your at it.
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Ive sold work on 4 occasions to guys setting up or expanding their round, where the houses are literally right on my door-step.
If you're good at your job and good with your customers you've nothing to worry about.
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Still swimming with silent lurkers and non members lapping up our inputs.
I had decided some time back to slow it down.
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Lol.
Pinned topic now..
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Lol.
Pinned topic now..
Why ???
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Lol.
Pinned topic now..
Why ???
Probably by mistake...
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Lol
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The bottom line is this - if we want a sustainable industry that isn’t flooded with cleaners , then we’ve all got to do our bit.
Supply and demand - too much supply drives prices down , I’m not talking in a weeks time but long term, if more and more people are encouraged to become cleaners then prices will nosedive.
That is all your honour .
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Lol.
Pinned topic now..
Why ???
Probably by mistake...
EXACTLY !!
I think I did it..... unpinned it ::)roll
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The Window Cleaning Facebook group that I belong to is very busy.
The alarming thing is the number of new starters up and down the country... There are so so many of them.
I think it will get to stage though where the market is so flooded with window cleaners that It will be impossible for anymore new starters to get into it properly and make a living from it so it will all balance out.
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The Window Cleaning Facebook group that I belong to is very busy.
The alarming thing is the number of new starters up and down the country... There are so so many of them.
I think it will get to stage though where the market is so flooded with window cleaners that It will be impossible for anymore new starters to get into it properly and make a living from it so it will all balance out.
theres always new start ups everywhere...most dont last long due to not being able to find enough customers to make it pay......this is the number 1 reason they pack in within a year or two,also the physical nature of the job,bad weather and the boring,repetitive nature of cleaning windows can send some over the edge....... ;D
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New starter here 👍 in jan i went out helping my father in law and liked doing the job and i always wanted to be my own boss so fitted perfect. And went for it while i was still working fulltime. Bought a van. Uniform. Tank. Signage. Leaflets and business cards and given other bit required which helped allot. So out of pocket for the nect few months.
Go out delivering my own leaflets as i believe i will get out what i put in via effort and money and luckily some work come up for sale aswell which has given me about 130 customers in total so on the way.
But i do look to this forum as well as others for tips but never really post as i have nothing to add as being new still.
So please dont full close off as i want to do this as a proper professional job and come here for advice. :)
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well done
still ask questions - its the best way to learn - if you have lurked on this forum long enough you see see/know who will give good advice and those who are keyboard warriors - I can think of at least 5 really good guys on her I would turn to if I needed advice
Darran
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Darren said I’m 1 of the ones he’d turn too 🤣.
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Darren said I’m 1 of the ones he’d turn too 🤣.
I doubt that very much as you can’t even spell his name😉
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New starter here 👍 in jan i went out helping my father in law and liked doing the job and i always wanted to be my own boss so fitted perfect. And went for it while i was still working fulltime. Bought a van. Uniform. Tank. Signage. Leaflets and business cards and given other bit required which helped allot. So out of pocket for the nect few months.
Go out delivering my own leaflets as i believe i will get out what i put in via effort and money and luckily some work come up for sale aswell which has given me about 130 customers in total so on the way.
But i do look to this forum as well as others for tips but never really post as i have nothing to add as being new still.
So please dont full close off as i want to do this as a proper professional job and come here for advice. :)
You've already done the hard bit Titan, enjoy the banter and take 99.99 % of the stuff you read on here with a pinch of salt.
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Just a pinch 🤏