Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Tom-01 on May 29, 2020, 08:50:09 am
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Hi everyone
I hope you’re all well and enjoying the sunshine.
For those of you who lease, who do you use to lease your van van? Would you recommend them?
Thanks
Tom
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Vanarama...my new van was on my drive within 3 weeks....
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I looked into it in the end I didn't like paying close to £12k over 3 years handing van back and having no asset. Would rather pay say £4k or so for a good condition doblo 2017 with service history even if it works out to £500 per MOT over the 3 years you're still about £6000 better off
.each to thier own tho
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
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I looked into leasing but the criteria to get one is pretty high and the repayments are high also.
I'm going to use the bounce back loan to buy one instead.
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Deals to be had everywhere soon cars-vans I’d wait 6 months.
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I bet car salesman are dreading it they’ll have to earn their money now people will be trying to screw em down to every last penny.
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Yea but you'll also earn more net profit right ? Which is always the overall goal ;D
I think handing your asset back and nothing to show for it isnt as good as keeping it and having £6k extra over 3 years for a van that's only say 3-4 years old
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Yea but you'll also earn more net profit right ? Which is always the overall goal ;D
I think handing your asset back and nothing to show for it isnt as good as keeping it and having £6k extra over 3 years for a van that's only say 3-4 years old
....and you are right. But it doesn't mean that someone who leases a van isn't.
Your owned van will continue to depreciate after 3-4 years until its worth very little. After 8 years your van is commercially worthless. If you do a 'high' annual mileage then repairs are the order of the day, tyres, exhausts, brakes, etc. The guy who leases a van for 4 years hands it back and get a brand new one will probably pay a similar monthly rate that he paid the previous contract. He's driving a new van and you've got an old one. The majority of his lease is warranty covered, yours isn't.
Leasing a vehicle is a tax aid even for a non VAT registered sole trader. Leasing is basically a cost that covers a vehicle's depreciation plus interest. Leasing allows you to deduct those payments as a business expense annually. This means that you can indirectly depreciate that vehicle off each year of the lease.
If you buy a van outright you only have 1 choice; to write it off in a single tax year as Annual Investment Allowance. You can't carry any portion across to the following year. Write Down Allowance was removed from income tax a good number of years ago now.
Its a similar issue buying a van on HP. You have to write the value of the van off in year 1 and you can claim the interest portion of the finance each tax year.
We aren't in an industry where van image is that important. We can drive older vans as long as they are respectable. But some industries have to be very image focused and vehicle image is important. The alarm guys fit this profile. Ringtons Tea is another.
Eddie Stobart's vehicles are also part of his image of quality deliveries.
Its generally accepted that builder's vans are battered.
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Don’t right it all off at once do it over time you’ll get no Tax bill for a whole year then be hit with a big 1 18 months later I was about 8-10 years ago never again,Sometimes it’s more efficient to spend money to keep a van on the road Tax wise you can write off all repair bills.
I paid cash for a van wrote it all off against Tax in year 1,18 months later I’d spent no money on staff-materials and got hit with 15 grand bill.
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I still see window cleaners traditional driving very very old cars about with the bucket stuck between the ladder runs and beer mats hanging on the back 🤣🤣,now there’s an image.
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I still see window cleaners traditional driving very very old cars about with the bucket stuck between the ladder runs and beer mats hanging on the back 🤣🤣,now there’s an image.
I know it's shocking what you still see crawling the streets.
I bumped into two chaps in a silver Nissan micra only recently, wooden ladders and both wearing outfits to match. Jeans and t shirts with holes in them, must be the look they were going for....
They proceeded to put a ladder up to a conny next to me then get some bits of 4x4 wood out the back and clamber onto the conny roof with them trying to clean it. Was comical, I was dying to shout over do you want to borrow my pole.
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I couldn’t think of the car that was stuck in my mind but the same as you it was a Nissan Micra 🤣🤣,it even had different selection of steel wheels on it.
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I looked into it in the end I didn't like paying close to £12k over 3 years handing van back and having no asset. Would rather pay say £4k or so for a good condition doblo 2017 with service history even if it works out to £500 per MOT over the 3 years you're still about £6000 better off
.each to thier own tho
you dont have to hand it back you can pay the balloon and keep it.mines a business finance lease...im gonna sell mine to my missus at the end of the contract and buy it back off her a week later then its mine....itll only have 15,000 miles on the clock after 5 years with at least another 5 years of life left in it...ill still be able to get a few quid for it after 10 years with 30k on the clock.
because i use a fitted diesel hot water system i dont want to be changing my van too often...once every 10 years is fine,i only do around 3000 miles a year and i keep it serviced regularly and tidy and clean.i also have my van sign written.
i love the extras on my van,although not essential they are nice to have(heated windscreen,heated drivers seat,air con,parking sensors,etc).it looks really smart and professional which is the image i want to portray as i work in mainly affluent areas....
itll cost me just over £20k altogether by the time ive paid the balloon payment at the end of my 5 year contract(£7k)but ill still have a smart van with very little mileage with plenty of life left in in it yet and not a high mileage van thats been battered!(like most of the second hand vans ive had before!)...... ;D
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Why pay for example 400 a month over 3 years when if you paid that over 5 you’d end up with a far better product than the cheaper option,a van owned over a 5 year period for most window cleaners as far as reliability goes shouldn’t pose to many problems.
Me personally I’d rather spend the extra 8-10k and drive-own a far better van on a daily basis,if you do little mileage then I can see the point but dragging tanks out and putting into another van every 3 years seems pointless to me,before you know it you are changing vans again.
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I would never lease again,you end up paying alot more in the long run.
Buy one outright,doesn't have to be new.
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Don’t right it all off at once do it over time you’ll get no Tax bill for a whole year then be hit with a big 1 18 months later I was about 8-10 years ago never again,Sometimes it’s more efficient to spend money to keep a van on the road Tax wise you can write off all repair bills.
I paid cash for a van wrote it all off against Tax in year 1,18 months later I’d spent no money on staff-materials and got hit with 15 grand bill.
That means the next year you made adequate profit to make sure you can earn at least up to higher earnings threshold that's still what it's all about!. The previous year you may not have due to the van so ye nothing wrong at all with that and you still had your asset all paid for m8t.
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I would still prefer to do a percentage against Tax every year instead of paying nothing and then get a huge bill,profits up expenditure down means more Tax to pay.
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What are you actually allowed to do modification wise? Can you drill holes in the floor for GrippaMax?
Can you install a Flettner?
Cut a slot in the floor for hose rollers?
I tried to look for it but can't find a definitive answer.
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I still see window cleaners traditional driving very very old cars about with the bucket stuck between the ladder runs and beer mats hanging on the back 🤣🤣,now there’s an image.
I know it's shocking what you still see crawling the streets.
I bumped into two chaps in a silver Nissan micra only recently, wooden ladders and both wearing outfits to match. Jeans and t shirts with holes in them, must be the look they were going for....
They proceeded to put a ladder up to a conny next to me then get some bits of 4x4 wood out the back and clamber onto the conny roof with them trying to clean it. Was comical, I was dying to shout over do you want to borrow my pole.
Obviously picks up work, employs so has enough work for two people...I’d say they’re doing ok irrelevant of appearances.
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
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What are you actually allowed to do modification wise? Can you drill holes in the floor for GrippaMax?
Can you install a Flettner?
Cut a slot in the floor for hose rollers?
I tried to look for it but can't find a definitive answer.
Because there isn't one.
Back in the days you could fit a Flettner but it had to be done professionally (usually by the supplier) and it would be left in at the end of the contract. A Flettner wasn't seen as reducing a vans value and/or chance of sale at auction.
I think Grippa had an agreement with Kennet? that they could fit a tank to a lease vehicle supplied by them. I'm not exactly sure what happens to the tank at the end of the day. I presume its part of the lease so left in the van at hand back time the same as BT leave all their racking behind when the van is due for renewal.
Back in my motor trade days councils would order a van for delivery just before a tax year ended. They would pay cash. The value of the van would be a tax write off. Then at the beginning of the new tax year they would sell the van to a leasing company
and lease it back with all its fixtures from the leasing company.
At the end of the contract the van was sent to auction with all its fixtures still in place.
I would imagine you would have to get written approval to have extras fitted like hose rollers and they wouldn't approve you doing the job even although you would do a better job.
You might be able to fit a roofrack with permission but a towbar could prove to be problematic. Someone could argue that towing a trailer could have increased the wear and tear element of the contract so make you subject to penalties.
There are leases where you take the risk at the end of the contract. If they valued the final balloon payment at £7000 and the van was only worth £4000 then the difference is from your pocket. You could opt to buy the van at the end of the contract but usually that becomes another loan against a further depreciating asset. If a builder wanted a van on lease they had the initial payment increased considerably and no balloon at the end of the lease.
At the end of the day if you decide to lease you have to ask questions about what you can and can't do before you sign on the dotted line.
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Talking of vans being worth 4000 I’ve known people take back a Vivaro and it’s been valued at less than that even lol
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Thanks Spruce, I guess I'm not much more the wiser unless I contact the lease company but I very much appreciate you taking the time to explain all that.
Dazmond, how do you have your system fitted being with Vanarama. Do they have an issue with it? I know you will buy it after the lease ends, but it should still say in the lease what you can do?
Do you have a GrippaMax?
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From my experience of having 3 lease vans Tim, they really don’t seem to care what goes on inside the van.
At the end of the lease they send Mannaheim (the auctioneers) out to inspect the van, a very good look over similar to when you return a hire car. They literally just open the rear doors and give a momentary glance inside. I just put back in the ply lining to cover the floor which then covers the holes in the chassis that had drilled. This has happened the last two vans I’d sent back, no problem at all.
They are very keen on finding any scratches or dents to the paint work, I just send it to a friend beforehand and he’s repairs or polishes out any damage.
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Why pay for example 400 a month over 3 years when if you paid that over 5 you’d end up with a far better product than the cheaper option,a van owned over a 5 year period for most window cleaners as far as reliability goes shouldn’t pose to many problems.
Me personally I’d rather spend the extra 8-10k and drive-own a far better van on a daily basis,if you do little mileage then I can see the point but dragging tanks out and putting into another van every 3 years seems pointless to me,before you know it you are changing vans again.
I agree NWH. I got my VW Transporter four years ago, only one year left to pay and its mine, no balloon to pay. I either keep it, sell the van and get a new one, or I might convert to a camper and get a new one for work again anyway.
The lease question was for a guy I know. He’s now looking to buy a 3 year old Custom.
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Thanks Spruce, I guess I'm not much more the wiser unless I contact the lease company but I very much appreciate you taking the time to explain all that.
Dazmond, how do you have your system fitted being with Vanarama. Do they have an issue with it? I know you will buy it after the lease ends, but it should still say in the lease what you can do?
Do you have a GrippaMax?
Grippa fitted his diesel heater so there are a couple of larger holes drilled in the floor of his van, one for the exhaust and the other for the air intake.
He originally had a 500l Wydale tank in his previous van. He purchased a stainless steel frame from Pure freedom and had his mechanic fit it.
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Usual nonsense on this subject. Let's assume tax at 20%.
If your profit is £20,000 and the tax-free allowance is £10,000 you pay £2,000 tax.
Lease a van for £4K a year and your profit drops to £16,000. You pay £1,200 tax.
So, you spend £4,000 a year to save £800.
Result! Trebles all round.
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Usual nonsense on this subject. Let's assume tax at 20%.
If your profit is £20,000 and the tax-free allowance is £10,000 you pay £2,000 tax.
Lease a van for £4K a year and your profit drops to £16,000. You pay £1,200 tax.
So, you spend £4,000 a year to save £800.
Result! Trebles all round.
And he claims to have an accountant! Must be from the same ilk of his insurance broker!!😬
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Usual nonsense on this subject. Let's assume tax at 20%.
If your profit is £20,000 and the tax-free allowance is £10,000 you pay £2,000 tax.
Lease a van for £4K a year and your profit drops to £16,000. You pay £1,200 tax.
So, you spend £4,000 a year to save £800.
Result! Trebles all round.
You forgot about the 9% you would save on N.I contributions.
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Usual nonsense on this subject. Let's assume tax at 20%.
If your profit is £20,000 and the tax-free allowance is £10,000 you pay £2,000 tax.
Lease a van for £4K a year and your profit drops to £16,000. You pay £1,200 tax.
So, you spend £4,000 a year to save £800.
Result! Trebles all round.
You forgot about the 9% you would save on N.I contributions.
Including that, it's still a false belief to spend on something you don't require to save on tax... and NI.
It's not about how much you turnover, only how much of that YOU get to keep.
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Peavey always comes on here when I’m posting he’s got a hard on under his kilt for me,my advise would be don’t rent a crap van for 3 years then take it back for another crap van.
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You have to spend some money what do you blokes spend money on work wise,if you are saving yourself 4-5 grand a year not paying for a vehicle etc or wages you’ll only pay more Tax.
Usual nonsense on this subject. Let's assume tax at 20%.
If your profit is £20,000 and the tax-free allowance is £10,000 you pay £2,000 tax.
Lease a van for £4K a year and your profit drops to £16,000. You pay £1,200 tax.
So, you spend £4,000 a year to save £800.
Result! Trebles all round.
You forgot about the 9% you would save on N.I contributions.
If I was earning 20 grand a year I wouldn’t be looking at 30 grand vans though would I.
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Peavey always comes on here when I’m posting he’s got a hard on under his kilt for me,my advise would be don’t rent a crap van for 3 years then take it back for another crap van.
No, Peavey only comes on here to remind you that you're being a complete K n o b!!👍
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Still slightly hard by the looks of it 🍆
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Still not sure if we should go back to work yet 🤣🤣🤣 🤧 🤧