Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: hotsteam on April 11, 2020, 09:20:23 am
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Hi, All, I'm not sure about leasing a new van, as I don't want to get ripped off when a hand it back !
or given the choice would it be better to pay the balloon payment and keep it ?
How much might the balloon payment be ?
What are your experiences ! ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
Cheers Pete
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There’s many ways of doing it like contract hire etc you pay a deposit have set monthly payments, after the term hand it back start again no balloon to pay.
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What about fixing a system in bolted to the floor do you get a repair bill
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Biggest pitfall of leasing a new van would be when a pandemic comes along and you can’t work. Either that or ill health/accident prevents you working and your caught in a contract with something you couldn’t really afford in the first place.
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If you plan on keeping it then get it on HP. Slightly higher monthly payments than lease but no balloon payment.
If you plan on handing it back when you’re done and getting another then lease is the way to go. You’re only committing to a monthly fee; as long as you can afford it, you’ll basically have a new(ish) van all the time with minimal maintenance costs.
Only a mug would pay the balloon payment at the end of leasing.
Once you’ve paid it, you end up paying over the odds for a van (total cost), that you could have got cheaper if you’d bought it HP in the first place.
The good thing on both is they’re tax deductible, so may be worth letting your accountant know it’s something you’re thinking about to see which works best for you financially.
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Don’t get it on HP through the van provider get a bank loan,if you have a business account you can specify what you pay a month.
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One of my customers a milk man had a transit van on lease hire.. Timing belt snapped at 30000 miles.. Missed a service by a few weeks... Ended up paying £6000 for a new engine.. Plus having to hire another van while other was mended and still paying for the original van.. Lease hire company wouldn't budge about new engine... He only had a couple of months left on the lease aswell
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I thought transit s had a timing chain
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There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments
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Chain or belt it snapped and cost £6000
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I thought transit s had a timing chain
The earlier Transits had a 2.0 diesel engine which was cambelt driven.
The deal done by Ford with PSA was that Ford would continue to use the Hdi engine in Ford cars but the Ford Puma engine in all the PSA vans , Ford vans and Landrover.
The Puma engine is chain driven. The independent garages see quite a number of Transits with snapped timing chains at around 130k.
So whilst Ford tell you that the timing chain never needs to be replaced, it does.
A timing chain kit with sprockets and chain tensioner costs around £200 and the garages want around £350 + Vat to fit it. Whilst they are there its a service as well as the oil and filter must be changed afterwards.
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The biggest pitfall of leasing is being naive and falling for the salesman’s talk of “ it is only X amount of pounds per month “
Look at the bigger picture and see what the van is costing overall.
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Yeah like 16-20 grand for a new Vivaro or maybe more not to many years ago 🤣.
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There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments
My Son works for a company returned a van at the end of the lease, they were to pay around £1700 for damage,, my son told me there was hardly a mark on it !
It got reduced to about £1000 in the end, what a con.
Another time a leased car was burnt out, which was one year old, the company had to make up a shortfall of £2700 because the insurance just paid market value, not what was owed on the car, as they did not have Gap insurance !
So your statement is looking very silly ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
"There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments"
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They always find damage with them when you return them I’ve heard that story many times,you’ll get a far better deal buying 1 through your bank.
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There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments
My Son works for a company returned a van at the end of the lease, they were to pay around £1700 for damage,, my son told me there was hardly a mark on it !
It got reduced to about £1000 in the end, what a con.
Another time a leased car was burnt out, which was one year old, the company had to make up a shortfall of £2700 because the insurance just paid market value, not what was owed on the car, as they did not have Gap insurance !
So your statement is looking very silly ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
"There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments"
Dont lease one then.... ;D
Mines a business finance lease so I'll be buying my van at the end of the lease....
Itll only have around 15,000 miles on the clock by the end of the contract.... :)
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Its foolish to lease a brand new car without GAP insurance.....its not the leasing companies fault! ::)roll
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There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments
My Son works for a company returned a van at the end of the lease, they were to pay around £1700 for damage,, my son told me there was hardly a mark on it !
It got reduced to about £1000 in the end, what a con.
Another time a leased car was burnt out, which was one year old, the company had to make up a shortfall of £2700 because the insurance just paid market value, not what was owed on the car, as they did not have Gap insurance !
So your statement is looking very silly ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
"There are no pitfalls at all if you can afford the monthly payments"
Dont lease one then.... ;D
Mines a business finance lease so I'll be buying my van at the end of the lease....
Itll only have around 15,000 miles on the clock by the end of the contract.... :)
Its all ok in the majority of cases.
But if an accident happened then things can start to go pear shaped if you can't afford the monthly payments.
If you had to ask for a settlement on your van now you would probably get a fright.
I don't know what the leasing companies are doing regarding deferring payments during the Covid-19 virus. If they still insist on monthly payments then there is going to be a lot of default and repossessions shortly.
Our nephews tell us that they have been in lockdown in South Africa. It started on the 26/3 and has been extended until the end of April. Business have been warned that it will most likely be extended to the end of May.
If the same thing happens here there are going to be major financial problems. This government is clever enough to feed bad news slowly.
I have no idea what our business is going to look like at the end of all this. If we are still alive, how many of our older customers won't be. What will the financial situation be of those left. Will window cleaning be a necessity?
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one thing i didnt know before i started leasing my van was the RFL attracts VAT!so i pay £320 a year at present including VAT......
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I wouldn't lease as i prefer to own my vans, I bought a 65 plate vivaro 3 years ago on hp 4.9% Apr , 2 more payments and its paid for, the van was bought with 32k and has 55 k now and it's been very reliable i intend to keep it to 100k so it will do me for another 5-6 years.
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one thing i didnt know before i started leasing my van was the RFL attracts VAT!so i pay £320 a year at present including VAT......
RFL doesn't attract VAT.
The leasing company pay the road tax and its classed as a service when they recharge it to you so they have to add the VAT.
The road tax is £265.
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They always find damage with them when you return them I’ve heard that story many times,you’ll get a far better deal buying 1 through your bank.
This is why its important to get a booklet from them explaining how they determine the difference between fair wear and tear and actual damage.
If they won't give you this info then its time to find another finance house that will.
Quite a while back my late brother in law rented a luxury 4 x 4. Their criteria to determine damage was using a 20p piece. If the damage, say a stone chip was smaller than a 20p piece then it was classed as fair wear and tear. But we only found that out by asking for the booklet.
For example; Leaseplan provide a detailed 'fair wear and tear' guide for cars and a separate one for vans.
https://www.leaseplan.com/en-gb/my-lease-vehicle/return-your-vehicle/
I used to deal with a finance house who were absolute sticklers for charging for every stone chip. It was cheaper to call in a chip and dent repairer to fix them before returning the car to save their customer money. It was all a money making racket as most of the returns went directly to auction. A couple of stone chips wouldn't have made any difference to the auction price.
The other trick is on hand over to make a point of visibly taking detailed hi resolution photographs of every panel of the car/van when handing it back. Also take detailed photos on the interior and instrument panel with the engine running and mileage indicated.
Take a photo of the vehicles service book with each service completed.
Once the vehicle is out of your sight then you have no recourse. They can however claim for stuff they later 'find' in their 'workshop' missed at the initial inspection.
Personally having worked in the trade I would certainly hesitate to lease a vehicle as a sole trader. I would most certainly not take a vehicle on Contract Hire because the risks are too highly loaded against me.
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Give it take a bit of interest even if it’s a 1000 more if you buy a van through a business loan you can pay it back over you’re terms ie duration,if you are going to keep the vehicle 5-6-7 years I’d get a business-bank loan and own the vehicle at the end.
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Leasing is attractive as the final balloon payment makes for a lower monthly payment.
We often used to query the amount of the final payment as it was more than what we felt a 3 or 4 year old vehicle was worth at that age. They purposely made that payment higher to push the lessor to take on a new vehicle lease. You see, the finance house would use additional bonuses granted to finance houses against the new vehicle leased by the manufacturers to offset that final balloon payment.
That final balloon payment was supposed to be what the expected market price would be of the vehicle at the end of the contract.
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They always find damage with them when you return them I’ve heard that story many times,you’ll get a far better deal buying 1 through your bank.
This is why its important to get a booklet from them explaining how they determine the difference between fair wear and tear and actual damage.
If they won't give you this info then its time to find another finance house that will.
Quite a while back my late brother in law rented a luxury 4 x 4. Their criteria to determine damage was using a 20p piece. If the damage, say a stone chip was smaller than a 20p piece then it was classed as fair wear and tear. But we only found that out by asking for the booklet.
For example; Leaseplan provide a detailed 'fair wear and tear' guide for cars and a separate one for vans.
https://www.leaseplan.com/en-gb/my-lease-vehicle/return-your-vehicle/
I used to deal with a finance house who were absolute sticklers for charging for every stone chip. It was cheaper to call in a chip and dent repairer to fix them before returning the car to save their customer money. It was all a money making racket as most of the returns went directly to auction. A couple of stone chips wouldn't have made any difference to the auction price.
The other trick is on hand over to make a point of visibly taking detailed hi resolution photographs of every panel of the car/van when handing it back. Also take detailed photos on the interior and instrument panel with the engine running and mileage indicated.
Take a photo of the vehicles service book with each service completed.
Once the vehicle is out of your sight then you have no recourse. They can however claim for stuff they later 'find' in their 'workshop' missed at the initial inspection.
Personally having worked in the trade I would certainly hesitate to lease a vehicle as a sole trader. I would most certainly not take a vehicle on Contract Hire because the risks are too highly loaded against me.
thanks for that spruce my golf GTD is with leaseplan.....ill be handing it back and getting another one next year so that booklet could prove handy! ;)
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Give it take a bit of interest even if it’s a 1000 more if you buy a van through a business loan you can pay it back over you’re terms ie duration,if you are going to keep the vehicle 5-6-7 years I’d get a business-bank loan and own the vehicle at the end.
Cheapest way is to take a personal loan over as short a term possible, the longer the term the more interest you pay.
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Thanks for all the replies, hopefully we have learnt something from it ! ;D ;D ;D
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Give it take a bit of interest even if it’s a 1000 more if you buy a van through a business loan you can pay it back over you’re terms ie duration,if you are going to keep the vehicle 5-6-7 years I’d get a business-bank loan and own the vehicle at the end.
Cheapest way is to take a personal loan over as short a term possible, the longer the term the more interest you pay.
Who cares if you are earning the money you can ok pay more interest but have a better van you can pay it over a longer and make the payments what you want each month,when I change my van I’ll probably be spending between 25-35k I keep my vans longer I’d rather do that than have 2 Vivaros in the same time.
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Give it take a bit of interest even if it’s a 1000 more if you buy a van through a business loan you can pay it back over you’re terms ie duration,if you are going to keep the vehicle 5-6-7 years I’d get a business-bank loan and own the vehicle at the end.
Cheapest way is to take a personal loan over as short a term possible, the longer the term the more interest you pay.
Who cares if you are earning the money you can ok pay more interest but have a better van you can pay it over a longer and make the payments what you want each month,when I change my van I’ll probably be spending between 25-35k I keep my vans longer I’d rather do that than have 2 Vivaros in the same time.
Who cares? Are you serious ? I would have thought anyone with the first clue on financial matters would care how much interest they pay on a loan.
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Give or take over the course of 4-5 years it peanuts extra per month over leasing a van,I could buy the van I want or lease it over 2-3 years but that’s gonna cost me 5-600 quid a month and I’m not gonna own it.
I’ve looked into leasing-renting a van I’d rather buy 1 if I don’t want to pay out for a couple of years after I’ve owned it I don’t have too,I can continue to buy the same sort of van coz the exchange will give me more of a down payment as they hold there money more the VWs with all the bits on.
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A VW Transporter for work is definitely a luxury.
A few of my mates have bought and run transporters for work. Nice vans feel solid to drive but you certainly pay through the nose for the prestige element.
They have still payed out on things that have gone wrong + usual wear and tear.
My last 2 vans have been Vivaros I had a clutch replaced on one and a drive shaft on the one I own now.
I paid £9500 for the one I have now 6 years ago.
I looked at Transporters but for work I think they are a luxury and not a business decision.
Tris
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I do a fair bit of driving during the course of the week next time I’ll go for the DSG version,imo it’s worth the extra money I spend more time in my van than I do a car and I get nothing back for the car at the moment although we are looking into that as well before we change it.