Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mjm on February 15, 2020, 06:01:08 pm

Title: Electric vans
Post by: mjm on February 15, 2020, 06:01:08 pm
With all these new Van's coming out electric  has anyone come across a window cleaner with a tank cage fitted because the Lithian.
Batteries are underneath the floor of the cargo or do they have to resort to ratchet straps only   ?
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: Dave Willis on February 15, 2020, 08:00:59 pm
Send it to Dazmonds garage and they will silicone the tank down fo £80.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: zesty on February 16, 2020, 09:01:45 am
Ain’t gonna happen for a long long time.

The fact is, electric vans are pants for payload and range.

We need diesel!



Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: Dry Clean on February 16, 2020, 01:48:58 pm
Amazon are changing all their vans to electric, they says its down to saving the planet but I suspect with taxes and bans on diesel vans in towns and cities becoming ever more popular its more about getting get one up on the competition, they have ordered 100.000 vans and many will be on the road in less than a year.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1581860816_222op.jpg)
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: CleanClear on February 17, 2020, 06:44:32 pm
Ain’t gonna happen for a long long time.

The fact is, electric vans are pants for payload and range.

We need diesel!

Milk floats did ok with all them glass bottles on ? And technology has reduced battery size. Also anyone with a manual reel could attach a dynamo and charge the battery up as they reel in  ;D
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 17, 2020, 07:33:07 pm
They will be highly relevant very soon  ;D
Later this year release of 50-75kw batteries in PSA + Toyota vans.
Load capacity 1 ton.

They will be brilliant, I just hope for 3-4kw socket from main battery! :D

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/psa-strengthens-its-electric-van-lineup

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/toyota-proace-and-proace-city-to-get-all-electric-versions-in-2020-and-2021/
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: mjm on February 17, 2020, 08:29:11 pm
Good links them thanks u may go electric  not sure yet 
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 17, 2020, 10:19:27 pm
If I get another van it will be electric. However it is quite possible that this one will see me out or at least to a stage where I am so part time I don't need another one.

At the moment I think my van  - which was new and is on 48K at 8 years old - should give me at least another 5 years. By that time its residual value will have completely bottomed out.

If at that point I just manage the business and get an employee I will need another van. If I reduce down to about £1500 a month turnover and run it on a part time basis I will probably keep the present van.   

Tax on diesel, any congestion charge and electricity costs will be a factor in 5 years time too.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: zesty on February 18, 2020, 07:05:13 am
Ain’t gonna happen for a long long time.

The fact is, electric vans are pants for payload and range.

We need diesel!

Milk floats did ok with all them glass bottles on ? And technology has reduced battery size. Also anyone with a manual reel could attach a dynamo and charge the battery up as they reel in  ;D

They also had a top speed of about 20mph 😜

In all seriousness, we’re going to need to burn a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to provide the power needed to charge millions of electric vehicles.

The whole thing is a joke really, especially when you consider how  clean modern engines are.

It’s mostly a money spinner, more tax, more money for the government.

It’s going to be very difficult for the national grid to supply enough electricity for all these electric cars.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: Spruce on February 18, 2020, 07:11:32 am
They will be highly relevant very soon  ;D
Later this year release of 50-75kw batteries in PSA + Toyota vans.
Load capacity 1 ton.

They will be brilliant, I just hope for 3-4kw socket from main battery! :D

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/psa-strengthens-its-electric-van-lineup

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/toyota-proace-and-proace-city-to-get-all-electric-versions-in-2020-and-2021/

Citroen had the same marketing hype 18 years ago when they launched the electric Berlingo.
That was a failure. I appreciate that times have moved on and electric is being forced on drivers in emission control zones but I can't see electric vehicles as a sole solution.
 Imo hydrogen is the long term answer in a combustion engine.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: a900 on February 18, 2020, 07:38:02 am
Ain’t gonna happen for a long long time.

The fact is, electric vans are pants for payload and range.

We need diesel!

Milk floats did ok with all them glass bottles on ? And technology has reduced battery size. Also anyone with a manual reel could attach a dynamo and charge the battery up as they reel in  ;D

They also had a top speed of about 20mph 😜

In all seriousness, we’re going to need to burn a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to provide the power needed to charge millions of electric vehicles.

The whole thing is a joke really, especially when you consider how  clean modern engines are.

It’s mostly a money spinner, more tax, more money for the government.

It’s going to be very difficult for the national grid to supply enough electricity for all these electric cars.

Check out fully charged. They are really informative with anything green but vehicles in particular. Modern cars might be cleaner to the eye compared to old vehicles but they still convert fossil fuels that were once trapped in the earth into gasses.

The entire thing is not a money spinner. If it was about making money it would have all happened by now. What slows it all down in my view is people being miss informed. It’s going so slow because of money. The planet runs of fossil fuels. Country’s and huge corporations make money and fight over it. Corruption to ensure people who make big money off fossil fuels continue to  earn a lot of money. Think eventually we will see some sort of tax like fuel duty to cover the money lost to the government.

https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow/featured

Tesla have there batterys right across the floor yes. But all the other manufacturers don’t Necessarily do that.  It’s a bit like having a tank fitted into your van but avoiding the fuel tank. Putting mountings around where the fuel tank is or dropping the fuel tank. Same sort of thing can be done with an electric van.

I’m planning on running my current van for the next 5 years and see how it goes. After that I will be going electric. It will be more clear cut and make more sense by 5 years time.

Someone told me in the trade that the BIK will be improving for electric cars so we will see a load extra on the road the next could of years. A bit how weve seen all the plug in hybrids. Like the BMW 330e that the managers have been getting as company cars.

They are a bit behind in making electric vans. The only one worth having is the Nissan e-nv200. But it’s a little small and girly looking for my liking. If it took 900kg I would consider swapping my van if it broke though.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: mjm on February 18, 2020, 11:33:05 am
Iam looking at the env200   it has a payload of 6 to 700 kg      60 to 80 miles on al charge and has rapid charging   30 to 40 min £5     not sure though  might wait tol 2021  vauxhal bringing one out vivaro type   
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 01:49:28 pm

They also had a top speed of about 20mph 😜

In all seriousness, we’re going to need to burn a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to provide the power needed to charge millions of electric vehicles.

The whole thing is a joke really, especially when you consider how  clean modern engines are.

It’s mostly a money spinner, more tax, more money for the government.

It’s going to be very difficult for the national grid to supply enough electricity for all these electric cars.

I dont think you have tried an electric car these days  ;D They are quite superior to diesel/petrol in Western countries.
Modern cars still pollute quite a lot, thats why several car producers see no future with combustion engine, and will stop completely to produce them and go 100% electric..

My personal opinion, this is no joke at all. Look to Netherlands and Norway where electric cars now are selling at high volumes. Norway over 50% and government has ban on selling combustion engine cars from 2025.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/24/the-ev-adoption-ramps-in-4-top-electric-vehicle-countries/

Fossil fuels fall to record low proportion of UK energy mix

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/19/fossil-fuels-fall-to-record-low-in-britains-energy-mix-data-shows

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/17/work-starts-on-huge-wind-farm-that-could-power-4point5-million-homes.html
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 01:57:59 pm
Citroen had the same marketing hype 18 years ago when they launched the electric Berlingo.
That was a failure. I appreciate that times have moved on and electric is being forced on drivers in emission control zones but I can't see electric vehicles as a sole solution.
 Imo hydrogen is the long term answer in a combustion engine.

I think you a very wise man, spruce. On this subject, I think you might be wrong.

There will be a place for hydrogen, for sure Toyota thinks so. But many places where Toyota is no 1, (several places in Africa and Asia) going electric is much harder then in Europe.
Hydrogen for trucks I belive in, but for normal cars I think cars will be mostly electric very soon in Europe. Hydrogen for sure lack the infrastructure.  Look at Tesla Semi..

There has been a lot of development on these last 18 years when it comes to electric cars.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 02:01:03 pm
Ain’t gonna happen for a long long time.

The fact is, electric vans are pants for payload and range.

We need diesel!

Milk floats did ok with all them glass bottles on ? And technology has reduced battery size. Also anyone with a manual reel could attach a dynamo and charge the battery up as they reel in  ;D

They also had a top speed of about 20mph 😜

In all seriousness, we’re going to need to burn a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to provide the power needed to charge millions of electric vehicles.

The whole thing is a joke really, especially when you consider how  clean modern engines are.

It’s mostly a money spinner, more tax, more money for the government.

It’s going to be very difficult for the national grid to supply enough electricity for all these electric cars.

Check out fully charged. They are really informative with anything green but vehicles in particular. Modern cars might be cleaner to the eye compared to old vehicles but they still convert fossil fuels that were once trapped in the earth into gasses.

The entire thing is not a money spinner. If it was about making money it would have all happened by now. What slows it all down in my view is people being miss informed. It’s going so slow because of money. The planet runs of fossil fuels. Country’s and huge corporations make money and fight over it. Corruption to ensure people who make big money off fossil fuels continue to  earn a lot of money. Think eventually we will see some sort of tax like fuel duty to cover the money lost to the government.

https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow/featured

Tesla have there batterys right across the floor yes. But all the other manufacturers don’t Necessarily do that.  It’s a bit like having a tank fitted into your van but avoiding the fuel tank. Putting mountings around where the fuel tank is or dropping the fuel tank. Same sort of thing can be done with an electric van.

I’m planning on running my current van for the next 5 years and see how it goes. After that I will be going electric. It will be more clear cut and make more sense by 5 years time.

Someone told me in the trade that the BIK will be improving for electric cars so we will see a load extra on the road the next could of years. A bit how weve seen all the plug in hybrids. Like the BMW 330e that the managers have been getting as company cars.

They are a bit behind in making electric vans. The only one worth having is the Nissan e-nv200. But it’s a little small and girly looking for my liking. If it took 900kg I would consider swapping my van if it broke though.

Personally I would just wait for the PSA+Toyota vans coming later this year. E-nv200 is still based on 1st gen electric cars.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 02:02:16 pm
Iam looking at the env200   it has a payload of 6 to 700 kg      60 to 80 miles on al charge and has rapid charging   30 to 40 min £5     not sure though  might wait tol 2021  vauxhal bringing one out vivaro type

Completely agree with you there on waiting just a little longer for a much better van...  ;D

Better to charge at home / office.
If you have to depend on fast charging stations, I dont think it will be a good solution for you.. Just gets to be a big hassle.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: mufcglen on February 18, 2020, 02:26:02 pm
As an ex mechanic working for Peugeot when they tried the Berlingo electric vans and 106’s years ago I thought they was pants but then tworking on hybrids at Lexus and thought they was much better but still a gimmick as they was attached to v6 engines!
the technology is moving very fast now with companies like Tesla and now with the gov wanting to ban petrol and diesel by 2030 or whenever it is plus cities banning cars in the centres I can only see the future as electric myself, the next 5-10 years I believe will be an incredible time for electric vehicles.
I know the custom electric van isn’t that great at the moment when you look at the stats and prices etc but it’s the start of electric van revolution!
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 02:52:53 pm
As an ex mechanic working for Peugeot when they tried the Berlingo electric vans and 106’s years ago I thought they was pants but then tworking on hybrids at Lexus and thought they was much better but still a gimmick as they was attached to v6 engines!
the technology is moving very fast now with companies like Tesla and now with the gov wanting to ban petrol and diesel by 2030 or whenever it is plus cities banning cars in the centres I can only see the future as electric myself, the next 5-10 years I believe will be an incredible time for electric vehicles.
I know the custom electric van isn’t that great at the moment when you look at the stats and prices etc but it’s the start of electric van revolution!

I agree :) If anyone still dont think electric car is the future....?

Stop by a Tesla dealer and give it a try...
Or even a Audi (e-tron), Jaguar (e-pace), Mercedes (ECQ), Kia (e-niro), Hyundai (kona) etc etc
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: dd on February 18, 2020, 03:52:25 pm
I have a friend with an electric Audi, 5 years old with 30k on the clock and already the battery does not charge as well. What is the usable life of one of these vehicles?
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: mufcglen on February 18, 2020, 04:03:06 pm
I have a friend with an electric Audi, 5 years old with 30k on the clock and already the battery does not charge as well. What is the usable life of one of these vehicles?

We used to replace some Lexus hybrid batts at 3-4 years old but others have lasted longer!
I think but I’m not sure some manufacturers are giving 8 years on batts.
The technology isn’t brilliant but its constantly getting better as better and it will take over petrol or diesel at some point for sure, I think the next few years when we start seeing mainstream companies like ford psa vw etc all fighting to get the best van/car out we’ll see development improvements get better and also the price will start to drop too.
Once elec vehicles become that popular though the gov will be throwing some new taxes about similar to diesel after it became very popular years ago as they’ll be losing a lot of revenue😂
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: mjm on February 18, 2020, 04:08:49 pm
It's free road tax at present   and every dealer I have spoke to have said this  you dont pay  road take     (atm)            maybe they are hunting on for something    hmmm       
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: zesty on February 18, 2020, 04:20:24 pm
Give me a straight 6 any day.

And a nice smooth diesel van.

None of this electric nonsense!

Can’t wait to see the problems in the next 30 years from battery waste (they won’t all be recycled) and the burden on the national grid.

They will inevitably need to v.e.d electric cars as well. It’s only free now as there’s only a tiny amount on the roads.

 ;D
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 04:24:12 pm
I have a friend with an electric Audi, 5 years old with 30k on the clock and already the battery does not charge as well. What is the usable life of one of these vehicles?

I assume your talking about a hybrid Audi not an electric car that is 5 years old? Their first full electric car was released in 2019 - Audi e-tron.
I dont know their hybrid system, but what I do know is that how it is designed has a lot to say. Also what temperature there is and if the car is often supercharged / speed charged.

Say Tesla battery pack that is liquid cooled/heated vs Nissan Leaf that has no temperature regulation, there is a big difference in battery degradation.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7764529/US-study-claims-Tesla-batteries-lose-just-1-performance-year.html
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 04:41:52 pm
Give me a straight 6 any day.

And a nice smooth diesel van.

None of this electric nonsense!

Can’t wait to see the problems in the next 30 years from battery waste (they won’t all be recycled) and the burden on the national grid.

They will inevitably need to v.e.d electric cars as well. It’s only free now as there’s only a tiny amount on the roads.

 ;D

I have not talked to one person who bought an electric car that want to return to combustion engine. Must be a reason why I assume... ;) Why not try out a proper electric car, and see if you say the same after..? It sounds like your a man that has some interest in cars, why not try it out?

Batteries will often be reused after being installed in a car. The used market for this is defiantly there.

Smart charging is a good thing for national grind, if the whole of UK would go over to electric cars, I assume that some upgrades would have to be done, but I guess not the whole of UK would suddenly go to electric cars.. Why not google what is written about this subject ;)
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: dd on February 18, 2020, 05:03:15 pm
I have a friend with an electric Audi, 5 years old with 30k on the clock and already the battery does not charge as well. What is the usable life of one of these vehicles?

I assume your talking about a hybrid Audi not an electric car that is 5 years old? Their first full electric car was released in 2019 - Audi e-tron.
I dont know their hybrid system, but what I do know is that how it is designed has a lot to say. Also what temperature there is and if the car is often supercharged / speed charged.

Say Tesla battery pack that is liquid cooled/heated vs Nissan Leaf that has no temperature regulation, there is a big difference in battery degradation.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7764529/US-study-claims-Tesla-batteries-lose-just-1-performance-year.html
As far as I was aware it was an all electric car. (could be wrong) The fact is though that the battery will lose its ability to hold a charge over time and I do not know how practical it is to replace the battery.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: olanorman on February 18, 2020, 05:16:55 pm
As far as I was aware it was an all electric car. (could be wrong) The fact is though that the battery will lose its ability to hold a charge over time and I do not know how practical it is to replace the battery.
[/quote]

As far as I also know, some of the ability will be lost, but the loss has been much less then many expected.
Plus they are getting better with quality and how to make more durable batteries.

Its not a very big job to change battery pack on many of the cars, but many times you can get refurbished batteri pack if your out of warranty.
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: zesty on February 18, 2020, 06:26:51 pm
I love cars and engines, yes.

Electric cars will come with many problems for years to come...

I’ve got a few customers who have them, they love them, but then they only do a few miles a day.

And there is no way we are going to be able to support the charging of millions of electric cars without burning huge amounts of fossil fuel  8)

The cost of them is extortionate, the range, pants. The mining for cobalt, bad. The recycling - almost non existent. Cold performance, pants. Etc etc etc.

I’ll stick with my transit custom, and bmw M140i - which is sweet as a nut! What an engine!!!!

If one day I have to switch over, then I will. But there is a huge huge amount of work to be done to phase out combustion. Huge.



Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2020, 06:30:03 pm
i reckon itll be at least 10 years before they have a decent electric van on the market thats affordable for us window cleaners so ill stick with my diesel van for now....its got at least another 10 years life in it yet anyway.... ;D
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: zesty on February 18, 2020, 06:31:47 pm
i reckon itll be at least 10 years before they have a decent electric van on the market thats affordable for us window cleaners so ill stick with my diesel van for now....its got at least another 10 years life in it yet anyway.... ;D

Same mate, and let’s be honest Daz, we want to enjoy Our hot hatches as well  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: dazmond on February 18, 2020, 06:38:01 pm
i reckon itll be at least 10 years before they have a decent electric van on the market thats affordable for us window cleaners so ill stick with my diesel van for now....its got at least another 10 years life in it yet anyway.... ;D

Same mate, and let’s be honest Daz, we want to enjoy Our hot hatches as well  ;D 8)

too right....ill still be handing back  my GTD next year for another brand new one...love em.... :)
Title: Re: Electric vans
Post by: brianbarber on February 18, 2020, 07:57:01 pm

New electric van.......London taxi
https://www.levc.com/corporate/news/meet-lcv-by-levc/

https://images.netdirector.co.uk/gforces-auto/image/upload/q_auto,c_crop,f_auto,fl_lossy,x_0,y_479,w_3000,h_1361/w_1560,h_710,c_fill/auto-client/bc6d1ff59476d36b5b6958b771655c55/new_electric_van_lcv_3.jpg