Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: HampshireWindowCleaning on February 02, 2020, 05:54:22 pm
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I currently have a Vivaro but was thinking about the Fiat Doblo Maxi next, heard some good things about them and they seem well priced and plenty of good ones knocking about, anyone got one with a 650 litre system in? The payload as far as I know is 1000kg on the lwb Maxi so should be ok for a one man operator. Be interested to know if there is enough room for the tank and are the cargo lashing points well placed for strapping tank in, also how do they handle 650 litres of water?
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I have the lwb Maxi with 500lt, personally i wouldn't put a 650lt tank in it.
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Why would you not put a 650 in, not enough room? Not enough power?
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I have the lwb Maxi with 500lt personally i wouldn't put a 650lt tank in it.
I also have a lwb doblo with a 500 tank in it,I carry my skyvac industrial in it no problem , but you can feel the weight when driving with a full 500 ltrs I personally wouldn’t like to drive it with a 650 tank
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I currently have a Vivaro but was thinking about the Fiat Doblo Maxi next, heard some good things about them and they seem well priced and plenty of good ones knocking about, anyone got one with a 650 litre system in? The payload as far as I know is 1000kg on the lwb Maxi so should be ok for a one man operator. Be interested to know if there is enough room for the tank and are the cargo lashing points well placed for strapping tank in, also how do they handle 650 litres of water?
I wouldn't consider using the cargo eyelets to hold any size tank down. They aren't designed for that.
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650 wydale is fine in a Doblo Maxi but it needs bolting down. You can't use the factory fitted cargo hooks, that would be silly.
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I currently have a Vivaro but was thinking about the Fiat Doblo Maxi next, heard some good things about them and they seem well priced and plenty of good ones knocking about, anyone got one with a 650 litre system in? The payload as far as I know is 1000kg on the lwb Maxi so should be ok for a one man operator. Be interested to know if there is enough room for the tank and are the cargo lashing points well placed for strapping tank in, also how do they handle 650 litres of water?
I wouldn't consider using the cargo eyelets to hold any size tank down. They aren't designed for that.
Spruce, out of interest. Cargo eyelets that are on bolts rather than welds - could you remove them and bolt angle iron or suchlike where they were once threaded to retain a tank in some way ? in other words is it the strength of the eyelet thats questionable or what they are attached to ?
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Could you not downsize to a 500litre tank as it’s only you working or do you use more than that a day mate? Also let me know when your back in my area as I owe you a drink remember 👍🏻.
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I currently have a Vivaro but was thinking about the Fiat Doblo Maxi next, heard some good things about them and they seem well priced and plenty of good ones knocking about, anyone got one with a 650 litre system in? The payload as far as I know is 1000kg on the lwb Maxi so should be ok for a one man operator. Be interested to know if there is enough room for the tank and are the cargo lashing points well placed for strapping tank in, also how do they handle 650 litres of water?
I wouldn't consider using the cargo eyelets to hold any size tank down. They aren't designed for that.
Spruce, out of interest. Cargo eyelets that are on bolts rather than welds - could you remove them and bolt angle iron or suchlike where they were once threaded to retain a tank in some way ? in other words is it the strength of the eyelet thats questionable or what they are attached to ?
These eyelets were never designed to hold back any heavy load. On the original Berlingo/Partner vans the rear ones were spotwelded to the wheel arches and we made of wire bent in the shape of a hook. They could be easily reshaped with a pair of pliers. They were basically there for use with a cargo net to keep small packages contained under it.
If you look at the tank frame that Purefreedom sell as an example. They sell a crash tested system. They use spreader plates for under the floor of the van. I looked under a van once and they looked like about 100 to 120mm square steel probably 5mm thick.
So you could remove those eyelets and fit a good size spreader plate underneath using high tensile (HT) bolts.
Grippatank use a similar system of spreader plates but they also sell an epoxy to go between the plate and the floor (or they used to. They supplied this with a DIY fitted system a cleaner bought probably 5 or 6 years ago.)
But as with all these things its your responsibility to ensure that what you have done is safe. P/F try to mount the tank as close to the front bulkhead as possible as another safety consideration. Is it also possible to drill mounting holes through the chassis and use smaller spreader plates there?
I will try to find an photo of how one windie did his fitting this evening.
One of the other tank fitters also used spreader plates but with long HT bolts that extended below the chassis line. A nut would tighten the tank down securely. He would do this on each side of the chassis rail. He would then fit a length of 50 or 75mm flat bar 6mm thick across the width of the van . It would have holes drilled to line up with the extra long bolts. In the case of an accident that length of flat bar would use the chassis rails of the van to add further restrictive strength.
We all need to realise that crash testing is done and certificated at 30mph. Most of these systems that have a certificate would fail in much higher impact speeds.
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Thanks Spruce. I'm looking at the newer shape Berlingo ( well 2010 onwards anyhow ). My reason for asking is after looking at the price of facelifts compact systems I'm thinking of diy'ing my own framed ( skid tank or similar) system that everything is attached to. The idea being that even if I change vans again in the future, swapping it out will be quick and easy. So am looking at easy fitting options and ideas to help with that.
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Thanks Spruce. I'm looking at the newer shape Berlingo ( well 2010 onwards anyhow ). My reason for asking is after looking at the price of facelifts compact systems I'm thinking of diy'ing my own framed ( skid tank or similar) system that everything is attached to. The idea being that even if I change vans again in the future, swapping it out will be quick and easy. So am looking at easy fitting options and ideas to help with that.
There was an advert GrippaTank put up in 2012 regarding their tank systems. They are against drilling through the chassis.
"A poorly fixed system will react in an accident like a massive cheese slicer - shredding your vehicle floor. Hence, our system features large spreader plates for the underside of the vehicle (these are bonded as well as bolted) together with solid T-LOK fixings that slot in to a lateral rail.
At MIRA, the system was bolted into the floor pan not the chassis (the weakest part of the van), hurled along the HyGe Sled and passed with flying colours. Our spreader plates and T-LOK technology act like a giant sandwich (there seems to be a real food theme developing here!) thus making the system and the vehicle one complete unit.
We do not fix into the chassis as this could compromise the vehicles integrity.
I realise that tank fixing can be a very emotional subject among some. For example, the MOT inspector I have used for the past 20 years will fail a van if there is a single hole drilled through the chassis.
My current van has gone to 2 other MOT stations since I have owned it because its a class 7 van. My old van was class 4. Neither of the 2 testers had any issue with bolts going through the chassis with spreader plates.
So it might be worthwhile to see if there is a similar issue with your MOT inspector. Its a grey area and left to the individual inspector as to whether he feels a van's chassis has been compromised by drilling a couple of holes in it.
If there is an issue then you can only use large spreader plates.
I like the idea of a tank bolted to a skid. Omnipole used to favour that. Streamline still do tanks on skids as far as I know. The only consideration is that they will be much heavier and take up valuable payload.
I can't find the photos I promised but will continue looking.
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my local garage unscrewed the factory bolts and eyelets out of my new connect and replaced it with angle iron and screwed in different bolts in the existing holes to fix my 500L pure freedom tank and frame down....no drilling through the floor...easy peasy...cost me £80.....my tank is fitted length ways with a bolt on diesel heater on the rear end.......
i dont know how safe it will be in a crash...hopefully ill never find out....it feels pretty damn solid to me..... ;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580745580_Screenshot_20200203-155832_Photos.jpg)
Heres mine.....
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Daz you would have been way better off getting box section done from the old eye anchors , across the van and then putting that to the frame .
This is what I did front and back , just need to put braces over the tank and get rid of them straps now !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580748845_00865E07-5D77-4D78-B70D-C47C155395B7.png)
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Doubt that would be up to much in an accident Daz, but better than nowt.
Looks like you scrimped a bit there :)
Better than my ratchet straps though.
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Thanks Spruce. I'm looking at the newer shape Berlingo ( well 2010 onwards anyhow ). My reason for asking is after looking at the price of facelifts compact systems I'm thinking of diy'ing my own framed ( skid tank or similar) system that everything is attached to. The idea being that even if I change vans again in the future, swapping it out will be quick and easy. So am looking at easy fitting options and ideas to help with that.
There was an advert GrippaTank put up in 2012 regarding their tank systems. They are against drilling through the chassis.
"A poorly fixed system will react in an accident like a massive cheese slicer - shredding your vehicle floor. Hence, our system features large spreader plates for the underside of the vehicle (these are bonded as well as bolted) together with solid T-LOK fixings that slot in to a lateral rail.
At MIRA, the system was bolted into the floor pan not the chassis (the weakest part of the van), hurled along the HyGe Sled and passed with flying colours. Our spreader plates and T-LOK technology act like a giant sandwich (there seems to be a real food theme developing here!) thus making the system and the vehicle one complete unit.
We do not fix into the chassis as this could compromise the vehicles integrity.
I realise that tank fixing can be a very emotional subject among some. For example, the MOT inspector I have used for the past 20 years will fail a van if there is a single hole drilled through the chassis.
My current van has gone to 2 other MOT stations since I have owned it because its a class 7 van. My old van was class 4. Neither of the 2 testers had any issue with bolts going through the chassis with spreader plates.
So it might be worthwhile to see if there is a similar issue with your MOT inspector. Its a grey area and left to the individual inspector as to whether he feels a van's chassis has been compromised by drilling a couple of holes in it.
If there is an issue then you can only use large spreader plates.
I like the idea of a tank bolted to a skid. Omnipole used to favour that. Streamline still do tanks on skids as far as I know. The only consideration is that they will be much heavier and take up valuable payload.
I can't find the photos I promised but will continue looking.
back in the day we had a vw t5 with a truck mounted carpet cleaner fitted in the rear and vw voided the vans warranty as they bolted three of the bolts throw the chassis when it was fitted , they also said that doing this could and will stop the van acting like i should when in a crash as the crumple zones would be comprised , all it took was a sharp eyed warranty guy at a dealer to spot this so be warned if there new lucky for us we didnt need to claim on it and the van left us 6 year later with 200k on the clock
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Doubt that would be up to much in an accident Daz, but better than nowt.
Looks like you scrimped a bit there :)
Better than my ratchet straps though.
it feels solid enough....tank frame is up against the bulkhead and screwed down tight and i have a diesel heater weighing the rear of the tank down as well as the bolts....... ;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580753843_Screenshot_20200203-181623_Photos.jpg)
I'm very happy with my set up.....its solid.......
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Thanks for replies, very useful. I've got some ideas now. 👍
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580745580_Screenshot_20200203-155832_Photos.jpg)
Oh dear god!! 🙄
Heres mine.....
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cmon then lets see your set up dave you old codger! :D :D :D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580745580_Screenshot_20200203-155832_Photos.jpg)
Oh dear god!! 🙄
Heres mine.....
you didn't actually pay someone to do that?
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Lol in 2 of those pictures there are bolts showing are they just for show lol,they won’t hold a strong fart. Next time you squash a fly on the windscreen have it in mind if you have an accident you’ll be joining him.
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yep....paid my local garage £80 to fit my tank.....i couldnt be arsed to fit it myself......
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Dazmond, I wouldn’t hang my hat on a bolt like that. That’s about the next size up from the ones holding the bottle cage onto my bicycle!
Why spend all that money then pay for crap like that?
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Daz, they’ve just found a random bit of metal they had knocking about and put a crappy bolt through it...surely you can see that?!
£80, I’d have done that for a pint for you; I’d of found you a bit of metal that didn’t have rust for a second pint ;D
I’m not a tart with the whole tank thing but please don’t start preaching it’s solid just because you tried to push it a bit!!!!
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yep....paid my local garage £80 to fit my tank.....i couldnt be arsed to fit it myself......
lol looks like they couldn't be arsed either,
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Nothing wrong with it......its hardly gonna start sliding around in the back of my van.it does the job that's the main thing.👍
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Daz, they’ve just found a random bit of metal they had knocking about and put a crappy bolt through it...surely you can see that?!
£80, I’d have done that for a pint for you; I’d of found you a bit of metal that didn’t have rust for a second pint ;D
I’m not a tart with the whole tank thing but please don’t start preaching it’s solid just because you tried to push it a bit!!!!
Well worth £80 to me...like I say I couldn't be bothered fitting it myself.....the connect has a false floor (underneath the main van floor) making it hard to bolt right through...that's why they used the eyelets.....
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Daz, you could put a tank in with no bolts at all and it will feel solid. You are relying on the strength of a tiny allen bolt head to stop your tank flying through the cab. It’s not much better than a popper! Seriously, there’s not even a washer underneath it. That’s one of the worst bodges I’ve ever seen in twelve years on this forum.
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Thanks Spruce. I'm looking at the newer shape Berlingo ( well 2010 onwards anyhow ). My reason for asking is after looking at the price of facelifts compact systems I'm thinking of diy'ing my own framed ( skid tank or similar) system that everything is attached to. The idea being that even if I change vans again in the future, swapping it out will be quick and easy. So am looking at easy fitting options and ideas to help with that.
There was an advert GrippaTank put up in 2012 regarding their tank systems. They are against drilling through the chassis.
"A poorly fixed system will react in an accident like a massive cheese slicer - shredding your vehicle floor. Hence, our system features large spreader plates for the underside of the vehicle (these are bonded as well as bolted) together with solid T-LOK fixings that slot in to a lateral rail.
At MIRA, the system was bolted into the floor pan not the chassis (the weakest part of the van), hurled along the HyGe Sled and passed with flying colours. Our spreader plates and T-LOK technology act like a giant sandwich (there seems to be a real food theme developing here!) thus making the system and the vehicle one complete unit.
We do not fix into the chassis as this could compromise the vehicles integrity.
I realise that tank fixing can be a very emotional subject among some. For example, the MOT inspector I have used for the past 20 years will fail a van if there is a single hole drilled through the chassis.
My current van has gone to 2 other MOT stations since I have owned it because its a class 7 van. My old van was class 4. Neither of the 2 testers had any issue with bolts going through the chassis with spreader plates.
So it might be worthwhile to see if there is a similar issue with your MOT inspector. Its a grey area and left to the individual inspector as to whether he feels a van's chassis has been compromised by drilling a couple of holes in it.
If there is an issue then you can only use large spreader plates.
I like the idea of a tank bolted to a skid. Omnipole used to favour that. Streamline still do tanks on skids as far as I know. The only consideration is that they will be much heavier and take up valuable payload.
I can't find the photos I promised but will continue looking.
back in the day we had a vw t5 with a truck mounted carpet cleaner fitted in the rear and vw voided the vans warranty as they bolted three of the bolts throw the chassis when it was fitted , they also said that doing this could and will stop the van acting like i should when in a crash as the crumple zones would be comprised , all it took was a sharp eyed warranty guy at a dealer to spot this so be warned if there new lucky for us we didnt need to claim on it and the van left us 6 year later with 200k on the clock
Why would VW void your warranty because you bolted through the chassis? Surely the warranty covers mechanical faults, which has nothing to do with what happens if you crash your van.
I very much doubt the chassis and crumple zones are covered by the warranty.
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When you bolt a tank in you want very large washers to attach the bolt to,the fixings in those pictures are nothing but useless.
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Daz, you could put a tank in with no bolts at all and it will feel solid. You are relying on the strength of a tiny allen bolt head to stop your tank flying through the cab. It’s not much better than a popper! Seriously, there’s not even a washer underneath it. That’s one of the worst bodges I’ve ever seen in twelve years on this forum.
thanks Dave!ill take that as a compliment! :D