Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: PurefectWindowCleaning on December 27, 2019, 02:46:08 pm
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Just had our renewal come through for both our vans and the company no longer will insure with fitted water tanks.
Reccomendations please of company's that do?
Thanks in advance
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Aviva (Mini fleet) policy
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Alexander Swan.
That is all.
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A plan
A plan worked out cheaper than alexander swan for me.
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When you say "fitted" are you referring to professionally fitted "crash tested" system?
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Just renewed with Admiral, including a self installed Water tank, only £11 dearer than the cheapest Go-Compare quote.
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Just don't tell them about the water tank, Durr!!
;D ;D
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always one
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I’d be careful who you listen too there’s not many who will insure WFP in a van,A-Plan is probably only 1 of a few I’d wager there’s a hell of a lot of WFPolers driving around uninsured as they haven’t told there insurance company they have a tank in the back.
If you don’t tell you’re insurance company you carry water or liquid in quantity you won’t get a penny if you have an accident,you will also be sued for 1000s if you cause damage and injury so it’s advisable you pay the extra few 100 quid.
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I’d be careful who you listen too there’s not many who will insure WFP in a van,A-Plan is probably only 1 of a few I’d wager there’s a hell of a lot of WFPolers driving around uninsured as they haven’t told there insurance company they have a tank in the back.
If you don’t tell you’re insurance company you carry water or liquid in quantity you won’t get a penny if you have an accident,you will also be sued for 1000s if you cause damage and injury so it’s advisable you pay the extra few 100 quid.
Absolutely right.
Alexander Swan is another specialist insurer for WFP vehicles, and they have a fleet of courtesy vans (with ionics systems installed) if your own van is off the road.
Personally I wouldn’t be without that coverage.
If the vehicle modification of a water tank installed is not specifically listed in the actual policy wording, then you won’t be insured.
But don’t worry, you can always tell the police and the family of the person you’ve injured that “someone on cleanitup said it was ok”.
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Too many gulible wc ;D
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Been using Gladiator for a number of years and Adrian Flux before that.
Both are brokers and are very good at not working to a script, like the majority of the mainstream insurers, and they will actually listen and give you the policy you need and not just one they want to sell you.
I have a 400 litre, unsecured tank specifically covered along with off road use, which was very difficult to get through the mainstream.
£190 per year.
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I’d be careful who you listen too there’s not many who will insure WFP in a van,A-Plan is probably only 1 of a few I’d wager there’s a hell of a lot of WFPolers driving around uninsured as they haven’t told there insurance company they have a tank in the back.
If you don’t tell you’re insurance company you carry water or liquid in quantity you won’t get a penny if you have an accident,you will also be sued for 1000s if you cause damage and injury so it’s advisable you pay the extra few 100 quid.
I assume you can provide evidence of this?
Utter codswallop, anyhow...... My van has not been modified to carry a tank. My tank is secured by the manufacturers anchor points. I have never been asked if I carry a water tank, nor have I ever come across it in an insurer's list of assumptions. If you have modified your van then you are, of course, obliged to declare as such. However, if you have not modified your vehicle then there is no such fact to declare. Then, unless carrying a water tank is specifically listed as an activity that would render the policy void i.e. taxi, racing etc etc or recorded on their list of assumptions then you are indeed insured.
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I am the same, my tank is secured by ratchet strap to the load bay anchor points. When I was asked about carrying a water tank I said yes but its not bolted to the chassis, just secured to the anchor points, so its classed as carrying a load. No way will I get a tank fixed to the van, just for an insurance company to take my eyeballs out.
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Just wait till you have a claim there is a hell of a lot of small print that would take ages to read,read it I’m sure you’ll see it in the small print somewhere lol.
I’ve had this conversation with A Plan a number of times when renewing the policy and have been told countless times after me asking is this correct,if you register with you’re insurance as a cleaning business they won’t ask and they’ll always take your money if you don’t mention you have one.
A Plan always ask if you are going to be carrying water and how much,if you buy any insurance online it’s down to you as said you don’t have to mention it or tick that box I was also told this,it’s like having an accident within 5 years on your policy and not telling them they’ll still take your money,the fun starts when you put a claim in I’ve had a conversation read back to me over the phone over a year later when I said they quoted something different,when I checked an old policy they were right word for word.
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If I didn’t mention I was carrying water I could get my policy down to 200,with a tank in the back I pay around 440.
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Just wait till you have a claim there is a hell of a lot of small print that would take ages to read,read it I’m sure you’ll see it in the small print somewhere lol.
I’ve had this conversation with A Plan a number of times when renewing the policy and have been told countless times after me asking is this correct,if you register with you’re insurance as a cleaning business they won’t ask and they’ll always take your money if you don’t mention you have one.
A Plan always ask if you are going to be carrying water and how much,if you buy any insurance online it’s down to you as said you don’t have to mention it or tick that box I was also told this,it’s like having an accident within 5 years on your policy and not telling them they’ll still take your money,the fun starts when you put a claim in I’ve had a conversation read back to me over the phone over a year later when I said they quoted something different,when I checked an old policy they were right word for word.
You're just the gift that keeps on giving as far as a-plan are concerned Nigel!!🤣
I bet you can't get a-plan to come on here and confirm your statements?
Have read all my small print and........ I am indeed correct. ZERO restrictions on carrying a water tank- not even a mention! My friend and fellow cleaner wrote his Peugeot partner off a couple of years ago. He had a 400ltr tank strapped in and guess what? Paid out in full with no issue raised, nor even mentioned regarding the water tank. So, there you go, you're wrong.👍
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Peavy I am not saying you are wrong I’m telling you what I’ve been told not only by A Plan but also another company I wanted a quote from they told me they won’t insure because of the water tank,if I could get a cheaper quote and had the same cover I’d be interested.
I want full cover and have it with A Plan they cover me with a van fitted with WFP if I’m off the road etc,a lot of people who fill in there insurance online come unstuck because you don’t need to mention about the tank etc,all I’m saying is you need to make sure you mention everything when it comes to insurance when the time comes they won’t pay I know someone who’s job it is within an insurance company to look for get outs,that’s all they do all day long if it’s not in writing and not in black and white you won’t get paid as that person says it’s a racket,she told me you shouldn’t be allowed to fill out a form purely online it should be submitted and then followed up.
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so the next time I insure im gonna ask what the difference is in price with the tank fitted and one price with out one fitted, then see what difference there is if any the main thing in my opinion is declare every thing ,as we all know any chance of an insurance company not paying out they will plus you owe it to other road users . if you kill some one your on your own not fully covered.
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so the next time I insure im gonna ask what the difference is in price with the tank fitted and one price with out one fitted, then see what difference there is if any the main thing in my opinion is declare every thing ,as we all know any chance of an insurance company not paying out they will plus you owe it to other road users . if you kill some one your on your own not fully covered.
So,what about a van filled with bags of cement, plaster, bricks, radiators etc? Do these people have to declare everything they anticipate that they may carry during the duration of any given policy?
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Im with Admiral so will check the policy docs, renewal due on. 22/1
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so the next time I insure im gonna ask what the difference is in price with the tank fitted and one price with out one fitted, then see what difference there is if any the main thing in my opinion is declare every thing ,as we all know any chance of an insurance company not paying out they will plus you owe it to other road users . if you kill some one your on your own not fully covered.
So,what about a van filled with bags of cement, plaster, bricks, radiators etc? Do these people have to declare everything they anticipate that they may carry during the duration of any given policy?
It’s funny you should say this as it’s the exact thing I said to them when I was moaning about having to pay double,it’s the fact you’re have a fixed water tank in the back of the vehicle and that you are likely to be carrying it at full capacity each day.
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If you go online and buy van insurance you’ll get it very cheap if you’ve a clean licence,there’s a section on there about what you’ll be carrying some underwriters won’t insure you if you have a fixed tank in the back,there’s a few that will but not if it’s held in with orange ratchet straps lol.
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If you go online and buy van insurance you’ll get it very cheap if you’ve a clean licence,there’s a section on there about what you’ll be carrying some underwriters won’t insure you if you have a fixed tank in the back,there’s a few that will but not if it’s held in with orange ratchet straps lol.
I think you'll find that orange ratchet straps are fine, it's when you modify your van i.e. drill holes in the floor and chassis then secure a "permanent" fixture to the van/chassis that the issue arises.
Nige, if you modify your van this way then unfortunately you have handed the insurer a golden egg to make you pay extra for that
modification. You just have to swallow it pal without talking all kinds on complete nonsense to try and deflect from your own unfortunate situation and making a complete tool of yourself!🤣
In 18 years of insuring "unmodified" wfp
vans, I have NEVER had to pay any extra to carry a water tank- neither have I ever been refused insurance for such.👍
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I have never declared my tank either.
Van is not modified, i simply carry a load secured to the vans anchor points with a ratchet strap.
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In my experience this is not the case I’ve always been asked if I have a tank permanently fixed in my van,when asked why they have said it’s the difference between us insuring you or not.
Some have offered a couple of options but only if it’s a crash tested fitted system Ionics name was mentioned by them,I know someone who used to drive around with a 1000ltr wedged into a connect LWB do you think if he’d had an accident they’d have paid out.
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I have never declared my tank either.
Van is not modified, i simply carry a load secured to the vans anchor points with a ratchet strap.
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In my experience this is not the case I’ve always been asked if I have a tank permanently fixed in my van,when asked why they have said it’s the difference between us insuring you or not.
Some have offered a couple of options but only if it’s a crash tested fitted system Ionics name was mentioned by them,I know someone who used to drive around with a 1000ltr wedged into a connect LWB do you think if he’d had an accident they’d have paid out.
If you do your insurance online from the likes of go compare you`ll never be asked.
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If you have a tank strapped or bolted down in the van it’s a modification if it’s going to be used for refrigeration equipment or have racking it’s a modification,all modifications must be declared or they have the right to not pay out.
If you change wheels have the vehicle re mapped it must be declared,you run the risk of you don’t tell them but you could be paying a premium for years not knowing you aren’t insured.
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Those online policies I was told you need to be careful they’ll take you’re money is there a section on it that asked for modifications,I’m sure there is if you don’t declare any it’s lovely for them because by law they won’t have to pay you out.
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Just to clarify- a tank strapped in, using the manufacturers anchor points is NOT a modification. That's what they are there for- to secure a load and the purpose of a van is to carry loads. It doesn't matter whether you insure online or not. If your van is not modified and there is no request to supply information regarding a water tank or stated within a given insurer's list of assumptions then you ARE fully insured. As FULLY insured as you Nigel.
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Im with Admiral so will check the policy docs, renewal due on. 22/1
Spoke to my insurance today, mentioned the water rank and that it was not in a cage bolted to the chassis, just secured to tje loading anchor points, they said that was fine.
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Im with Admiral so will check the policy docs, renewal due on. 22/1
Spoke to my insurance today, mentioned the water rank and that it was not in a cage bolted to the chassis, just secured to tje loading anchor points, they said that was fine.
Did you ask them to double check.... 'cos there's an industry expert on a tinternet forum says otherwise? 😬
Next time, just convince them that your van's a death trap and you may be fortunate enough to be graced with the privilege of paying through the nose for your next policy!!👍😄
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If I didn’t mention I was carrying water I could get my policy down to 200,with a tank in the back I pay around 440.
You really want to shop around then.....I declare a bolted in water tank in my van, but prefer to use insurance companies who don’t rip you off for doing so. A plan, Alexander Swan etc etc are having a field day!!
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When I first tried to insure my pickup with a water tank, about a decade back, it was a no go.
If the tank was bolted down they wouldn't insure it because it was a modification. If it wasn't bolted down it was an insecure load.
Eventually, I connected with Gladiator and Adrian Flux who found underwriters that didn't have an issue and life progressed.
In recent years, and with the increased number of WFP equipped window cleaners, the situation is much easier but there are still plenty of companies that will not insure a water tank in a vehicle.
And to clarify the point about modifications: After lengthy conversations with a number of companies, it seems that a MODIFICATION is anything that a particular insurance company doesn't like on an arbitrary basis.
Some are very balanced and reasonable and will, after disclosure insure just about anything at reasonable rates with no special conditions.
Other companies, I've argued with, consider a modification to be ANYTHING that the vehicle didn't have when it left the factory. Some have objected to window stickers, the wrong stereo, different wheels and tyres, uprated headlights etc. These companies are obviously best avoided but they are out there and there are many of them that I've dealt with.
A final thought is off road cover, only usually applicable if you have 4wd. Most companies will not cover you to go off road for the purpose of work or otherwise, which I do daily. In my case, it had to be a specific request from me to the insurer to get cover.
Insurance companies attitudes varied from a simple "no" to a threat of the entire, annual policy being void if I were to ever drive across a field. Quite how they were going to enforce that is still a mystery
The insurance companies are a law to themselves and can make up their own individual and pedantic sets of terms and conditions.
All are different. Some may object to everything and others to nothing.
Everything depends on the specific company.
Just tread carefully.
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Yeah as above tread carefully those online forms are tempting to just not tick the box.
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This issue is not as complex as it may seem.
If your tank is INSTALLED (ie bolted to the floor of the vehicle) then that's obviously a modification. If you don't declare that to your insurer because you think it ISN'T a modification, then you may have to justify that in court. You'll fail.
If your tank is just strapped in with ratchet straps etc, then it may be easier to argue that it's cargo (rather than a modification) BUT if that's the case then you'll have to follow the regulations for load securing:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/load-securing-vehicle-operator-guidance/load-securing-vehicle-operator-guidance#load-securing-the-basics
In particular, section 2.7"
"The combined strength of the load restraint system must be sufficient to withstand a forwards force not less than the total weight of the load to prevent the load moving under severe braking, and half the weight of the load moving backwards and sideways."
So your rear tie-down points (as these are the ones that will take the force under severe braking) together have to be able to withstand the total weight of the load. So if your tank is 700 Litres, they have to be able to withstand 700kg etc.
I just looked at the ones in my van, they look ok, but not particularly strong. There's no mention of how much load they can secure in the specifications, I wonder if any testing has ever been done.
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If you strap down with or on the anchor points in a van and you are carrying say 300ltrs upwards good luck to you when you pardon the pun anchor up lol,Can someone please tell me how you can safley strap down 5-1000ltrs safley.
If people are saying you can do this please expalain to me how it’s done coz I’m miffed about that,I suppose someone will come on here now and say it won’t lift and be propelled forward in an instant stop accident.
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end of the day get the correct insurance stop gambling with saving a few quid, you all know it makes sense to get properly covered, don't forget its your livelihood your gambling with god forbid any thing happens.
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I think most would agree that a tank should be bolted and fitted securely through the chassis to be safe and should be declared to the insurance to cover yourself in the event of an accident.
But a lot will just buy the cheapest insurance possible and strap a tank to the anchor points even though they know its not the best thing to do, probably because they have been doing it years and never had a problem.
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I think most would agree that a tank should be bolted and fitted securely through the chassis to be safe and should be declared to the insurance to cover yourself in the event of an accident.
But a lot will just buy the cheapest insurance possible and strap a tank to the anchor points even though they know its not the best thing to do, probably because they have been doing it years and never had a problem.
No what you are talking about is the best of the cheapest, the better company's don't seem to bother with silly non enforceable get out clauses, my tank frame is bolted in, it doesn't effect the road handling power of the vehicle or make the vehicle more likely to be stolen, so under the law my insurance must pay out declared or not which is why my insurance company wasn't interested when I mentioned it.
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The issue was whether you are insured....... not which method of tank restraint is the safest.
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Will say again, how many people have bought a used car that has a tow bar and haven't even given it a second thought nevermind declare it ? do you guys honestly think that in the event of an accident these people aren't insured ?
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It is illegal to remove the rear ram bar that is situated under the bumper of a vehicle,they are 9 times out of 10 replaced with a tow bar that has its own ram plate attached to it.
I have it on my van and when I wanted to get it taken off the MOT testers told me that’s fine but I’d need to buy a different flush ram bar to replace it.
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I’d be careful who you listen too there’s not many who will insure WFP in a van,A-Plan is probably only 1 of a few I’d wager there’s a hell of a lot of WFPolers driving around uninsured as they haven’t told there insurance company they have a tank in the back.
If you don’t tell you’re insurance company you carry water or liquid in quantity you won’t get a penny if you have an accident,you will also be sued for 1000s if you cause damage and injury so it’s advisable you pay the extra few 100 quid.
I assume you can provide evidence of this?
Utter codswallop, anyhow...... My van has not been modified to carry a tank. My tank is secured by the manufacturers anchor points. I have never been asked if I carry a water tank, nor have I ever come across it in an insurer's list of assumptions. If you have modified your van then you are, of course, obliged to declare as such. However, if you have not modified your vehicle then there is no such fact to declare. Then, unless carrying a water tank is specifically listed as an activity that would render the policy void i.e. taxi, racing etc etc or recorded on their list of assumptions then you are indeed insured.
You are very nearly right, I have ad a bit if experience of this and can tel you that a fixed tank is a modification and that you using anchor points are just as insured as the next man as you are using the correct fixing points.
Unfortunately for everyone who is insured, it is the insurers job not to pay out and he/she will try their best not to pay - I crash and my fully fitted water tank bust through my rear doors or shunted me harder into the back of someone, is it factory fitted? No, it is a modification that you did not declare, I as the insurer am not paying out.
I crash my van, tank busts through my rear doors or shunted me harder into the back of someone, is it secured using the factory fitted anchor points, paid out (as long as correct strapping is used and you are not exceeding recommended weights for the vehicle).
As already stated, it is the insurers aim not to pay out, it is the insured persons aim to be paid out, pay the correct insurance and you won’t have an issue if the unfortunate happens.....
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Just wait till you have a claim there is a hell of a lot of small print that would take ages to read,read it I’m sure you’ll see it in the small print somewhere lol.
I’ve had this conversation with A Plan a number of times when renewing the policy and have been told countless times after me asking is this correct,if you register with you’re insurance as a cleaning business they won’t ask and they’ll always take your money if you don’t mention you have one.
A Plan always ask if you are going to be carrying water and how much,if you buy any insurance online it’s down to you as said you don’t have to mention it or tick that box I was also told this,it’s like having an accident within 5 years on your policy and not telling them they’ll still take your money,the fun starts when you put a claim in I’ve had a conversation read back to me over the phone over a year later when I said they quoted something different,when I checked an old policy they were right word for word.
You're just the gift that keeps on giving as far as a-plan are concerned Nigel!!🤣
I bet you can't get a-plan to come on here and confirm your statements?
Have read all my small print and........ I am indeed correct. ZERO restrictions on carrying a water tank- not even a mention! My friend and fellow cleaner wrote his Peugeot partner off a couple of years ago. He had a 400ltr tank strapped in and guess what? Paid out in full with no issue raised, nor even mentioned regarding the water tank. So, there you go, you're wrong.👍
It’s not the carrying of water, it’s the modification of the vehicle by drilling, fixing water tank to vehicle.
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You're repeating everything I have already said Ralphi...... get with the programme!!😄
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I’m late to this conversation but it seems to me that everyone is just giving opinions. The real test is whether anyone who has crashed with just a tank ratchet strapped to the vehicle fixing points has had their claim refused due to not declaring it? Anyone??? 🤔
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I’m late to this conversation but it seems to me that everyone is just giving opinions. The real test is whether anyone who has crashed with just a tank ratchet strapped to the vehicle fixing points has had their claim refused due to not declaring it? Anyone??? 🤔
There is no requirement to declare a tank strapped in using the manufacturers anchor points unless specifically requested... as this IS NOT a modification. It's like suggesting that the van isn't insured if you carry a passenger- even though the vehicle is designed, manufactured and supplied with a passenger seat and seat belt!!
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I’d be careful who you listen too there’s not many who will insure WFP in a van,A-Plan is probably only 1 of a few I’d wager there’s a hell of a lot of WFPolers driving around uninsured as they haven’t told there insurance company they have a tank in the back.
If you don’t tell you’re insurance company you carry water or liquid in quantity you won’t get a penny if you have an accident,you will also be sued for 1000s if you cause damage and injury so it’s advisable you pay the extra few 100 quid.
I assume you can provide evidence of this?
Utter codswallop, anyhow...... My van has not been modified to carry a tank. My tank is secured by the manufacturers anchor points. I have never been asked if I carry a water tank, nor have I ever come across it in an insurer's list of assumptions. If you have modified your van then you are, of course, obliged to declare as such. However, if you have not modified your vehicle then there is no such fact to declare. Then, unless carrying a water tank is specifically listed as an activity that would render the policy void i.e. taxi, racing etc etc or recorded on their list of assumptions then you are indeed insured.
You are very nearly right, I have ad a bit if experience of this and can tel you that a fixed tank is a modification and that you using anchor points are just as insured as the next man as you are using the correct fixing points.
Unfortunately for everyone who is insured, it is the insurers job not to pay out and he/she will try their best not to pay - I crash and my fully fitted water tank bust through my rear doors or shunted me harder into the back of someone, is it factory fitted? No, it is a modification that you did not declare, I as the insurer am not paying out.
I crash my van, tank busts through my rear doors or shunted me harder into the back of someone, is it secured using the factory fitted anchor points, paid out (as long as correct strapping is used and you are not exceeding recommended weights for the vehicle).
As already stated, it is the insurers aim not to pay out, it is the insured persons aim to be paid out, pay the correct insurance and you won’t have an issue if the unfortunate happens.....
Have you ever read all the small print on your insurance form ? believe me when I say if your insurance company's number one aim was not to pay out they could easily hide something in all that small print to make that so, what they don't want are guys turning safe to insure low risk vehicles into racing machines or thief magnets which is why they have a modification clause.
Its to reduce or remove the need to pay out and not to wiggle out of a rightful claim.
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If you strap a tank down with straps all they’ll do is stop it sliding around for my own safety I wouldn’t put a tank in a van like this,if you have an accident the points you strap to usually have 3 bolts with piddly washers I was told in an accident they’d be as useful as celotape.
Most people that strap a tank like this don’t have a properly baffled tank most of the time also at least the ones I’ve seen,why would someone buy a properly baffled tank if they are going to strap it down. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link you could have the thickest heavy duty straps you can buy,if they are attached to a loop with 3 tork screws on each corner they are useless they don’t spend all this money on testing for nothing.
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If you strap a tank down with straps all they’ll do is stop it sliding around for my own safety I wouldn’t put a tank in a van like this,if you have an accident the points you strap to usually have 3 bolts with piddly washers I was told in an accident they’d be as useful as celotape.
Most people that strap a tank like this don’t have a properly baffled tank most of the time also at least the ones I’ve seen,why would someone buy a properly baffled tank if they are going to strap it down. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link you could have the thickest heavy duty straps you can buy,if they are attached to a loop with 3 tork screws on each corner they are useless they don’t spend all this money on testing for nothing.
AGAIN, AGAIN, AND AGAIN...........
JUST TO CLARIFY...AGAIN...
THE ISSUE IS NOT WHAT IS BEST, WHAT IS SAFEST, WHAT YOU WOULD OR WOULDN'T BE PREPARED TO DO PERSONALLY. THE ISSUE IS REGARDING WHETHER YOU ARE INSURED OR NOT IF YOU CARRY A WATER LOAD RESTRAINED VIA THE CORRECT STRAPS TO THE MANUFACTURERS ANCHOR POINTS. YOUR PERSONAL OPINION IS IRRELEVANT!
Geeeeze, can people no longer read?
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If you strap a tank down with straps all they’ll do is stop it sliding around for my own safety I wouldn’t put a tank in a van like this,if you have an accident the points you strap to usually have 3 bolts with piddly washers I was told in an accident they’d be as useful as celotape.
Most people that strap a tank like this don’t have a properly baffled tank most of the time also at least the ones I’ve seen,why would someone buy a properly baffled tank if they are going to strap it down. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link you could have the thickest heavy duty straps you can buy,if they are attached to a loop with 3 tork screws on each corner they are useless they don’t spend all this money on testing for nothing.
Well in that case what are the anchor points fitted for? If they aren’t strong enough to stop a load moving in a crash, then shy are vans designed to carry loads ? Loads on trucks are secured with loading straps. What you are saying means any heavy load is not secure in a crash? If the tank is mounted directly behind the bulkhead and secured to the anchor points it can’t go anywhere if there is a crash
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The only way to find out if you are covered is to ask your insurer direct, if they say yes, ask for written proof then you can go to slee at night.
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I’m really keen to hear from anyone who has had a claim refused because of the water tank being strapped onto the anchor points.
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I noticed on a policy I had a while ago it specifically said not covered for water tanks.
I read it then thought yeh whatever.
It's something I've never even looked into. I just pick the cheapest on go compare and away I go.
When I was a young lad I always had void policys, couldn't afford to tell the truth about my highly modified rs turbos and the like. Kept In a garage at my mums house with no mods, Thatcham cat 3 alarm and immobiliser, etc... ;D yeh right
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The only way to find out if you are covered is to ask your insurer direct, if they say yes, ask for written proof then you can go to slee at night.
No need, the onus is on the insurer to prove what they have or haven't told you which is why they automatically record all phone calls.
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If you strap a tank down with straps all they’ll do is stop it sliding around for my own safety I wouldn’t put a tank in a van like this,if you have an accident the points you strap to usually have 3 bolts with piddly washers I was told in an accident they’d be as useful as celotape.
Most people that strap a tank like this don’t have a properly baffled tank most of the time also at least the ones I’ve seen,why would someone buy a properly baffled tank if they are going to strap it down. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link you could have the thickest heavy duty straps you can buy,if they are attached to a loop with 3 tork screws on each corner they are useless they don’t spend all this money on testing for nothing.
Well in that case what are the anchor points fitted for? If they aren’t strong enough to stop a load moving in a crash, then shy are vans designed to carry loads ? Loads on trucks are secured with loading straps. What you are saying means any heavy load is not secure in a crash? If the tank is mounted directly behind the bulkhead and secured to the anchor points it can’t go anywhere if there is a crash
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Yes it can , van bulkheads are not that strong.
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Those straps will not stop a tank full of water shooting forward and squashing you like a fly in a crash,some people say they are covered but they won’t be around to put the claim in if someone bangs em from behind or they hit a wall at speed lol. Thanks but I’d rather have a tank bolted to the floor and also have a bulkhead keeping me away from a flying tank,there’s some companies that’ll insure anything they want you’re money,the proofs in the pudding or the claim when-if it comes.
I know I’m covered to carry a water tank I’ve told them, I’ve not just left that box blank on th online form lol.
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Those straps will not stop a tank full of water shooting forward and squashing you like a fly in a crash,some people say they are covered but they won’t be around to put the claim in if someone bangs em from behind or they hit a wall at speed lol. Thanks but I’d rather have a tank bolted to the floor and also have a bulkhead keeping me away from a flying tank,there’s some companies that’ll insure anything they want you’re money,the proofs in the pudding or the claim when-if it comes.
I know I’m covered to carry a water tank I’ve told them, I’ve not just left that box blank on th online form lol.
Iv yet to find an insurance company that had online form with a do you have a bolted in tank box to tick, could you put up a link as I would like to check this out.
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Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣
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van bulkheads are not that strong.
Yes they are. They're every bit as strong as four bolts.
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Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣
I'm with Alexander Swan. I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.
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Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣
I'm with Alexander Swan. I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.
That's the point, you don't have any choice (without risk) as you have chosen to modify your vehicle and not use what is supplied by the manufacturer. You have something that has to be declared as you have chosen something that is out with the standard, purpose made system that the manufacturer has designed, tested and supplied- which, is the "standard" that all insurance underwriters use and rely on. This is why the question is asked- "has your vehicle been modified in any way" . Yours has but mine hasn't. Thus.... unless specifically requested or contained within a "list of assumptions" the vehicle is fully insured- it cannot be anything other. There is nothing to declare and nothing held back that has been requested therefore there is nothing to be "tested"?
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But what if you're wrong & they don't see it that way? Is it worth taking the chance?
I agree it's a con though. Both of ours are Pure Freedom supply only delivery systems bolted in by local garage. Stainless steel cages.
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But what if you're wrong & they don't see it that way? Is it worth taking the chance?
I agree it's a con though. Both of ours are Pure Freedom supply only delivery systems bolted in by local garage. Stainless steel cages.
If they don't see what, which way?
Unless there is a requirement to inform the insurance company of every load that you intend to carry?
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IMO you are more risk of the insurance company having issue with a local garage bolting your tank in.... come claim time. Can't really argue with the standard, manufacturer designed, tested and supplied system.... but your local garage?
Standard specification Vs local garage untested, modified vehicle? It's more plausible they could argue against the expertise, competence, design, test and suitability of both the supplier and installer IMO. That's the bigger "get out" opportunity.
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How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?
Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)
Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.
The issue of which is safest is another debate.
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How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?
Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)
Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.
The issue of which is safest is another debate.
At least someone understands!!😄👍
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Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣
I'm with Alexander Swan. I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.
That's the point, you don't have any choice (without risk) as you have chosen to modify your vehicle and not use what is supplied by the manufacturer. You have something that has to be declared as you have chosen something that is out with the standard, purpose made system that the manufacturer has designed, tested and supplied- which, is the "standard" that all insurance underwriters use and rely on. This is why the question is asked- "has your vehicle been modified in any way" . Yours has but mine hasn't. Thus.... unless specifically requested or contained within a "list of assumptions" the vehicle is fully insured- it cannot be anything other. There is nothing to declare and nothing held back that has been requested therefore there is nothing to be "tested"?
If what you are saying is right why will some insurance companies refuse to insure a vehicle with a tank held in with ratchet straps??? Simple answer is that the points in the van are not load rated , this is why most insurance company’s used to ask for an engineers report as to the fixing of the tank , there were very few companies that would insure you when I started wfp evan with the report , I think it’s a lot easier now , but there was that lad who was killed a couple of years ago who had a small tank strapped into the van he was involved in a low speed crash the tank mounting points gave way and he was crushed to death , if you doubt this google it it’s there for all to read , or at least it was at the time , if you have a 400 ltr tank in a van involved in a head on accidental 30 mph do you know how many tones force that equates to ?? Again try looking it up and then tell me that your ratchet strapped tank will be fine
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HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.
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How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?
Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)
Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.
The issue of which is safest is another debate.
At least someone understands!!😄👍
It’s not quite that simple , should you be involved in an accident and someone it seriously injured or killed you will find yourself in court being prosecuted by the police and vosa for driving a vehicle with an insecure load , Ime in the Fireservice and had to go to court to give evidence in a case where a guy was killed in a van due to an insecure load moving that was ratchet strapped in it wasn’t a water tank but a steel rsj the insurance company never did pay out for his death due to the fact that vosa declared it unsafe , they did however lay out to the 3 rd party he hit . The fixings in van floors arnt designed for the loading of a water tank in an accident , they are there to stop things moving about during transit .
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HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.
Ok but at the risk of repeating what has been said numerous times but which seems to be hard to grasp for some...
The question of safety isn’t what’s being argued here but rather whether you are covered by your insurance.
I used to example of a HGV so show that you can be covered without having to “bolt” stuff down, I wasn’t comparing the strength of fixings and which is safer.
To use a ‘Toshism’, you’re arguing a Strawman mate.
Edit - just to add, my tank is bolted down to the floor. I employ and I believe it’s safer and it’s not worth the risk. I also pay extra for it.
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Call it what you want, who cares.
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Call it what you want, who cares.
You felt compelled to post about it, so I could probably assume you do maybe?
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What I meant was, I don't care whats it called. A Toshism, a straw man, whatever...
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HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.
Ok but at the risk of repeating what has been said numerous times but which seems to be hard to grasp for some...
The question of safety isn’t what’s being argued here but rather whether you are covered by your insurance.
I used to example of a HGV so show that you can be covered without having to “bolt” stuff down, I wasn’t comparing the strength of fixings and which is safer.
To use a ‘Toshism’, you’re arguing a Strawman mate.
Edit - just to add, my tank is bolted down to the floor. I employ and I believe it’s safer and it’s not worth the risk. I also pay extra for it.
Do you think if I say the same thing a few more times the penny might drop?😄
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HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.
That's because they both have MUCH higher payload ratings than berlingos and transits.
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Im getting the feeling there's definitely a 'cabin fever' element for you lot that have holed up with your drinks cabinet the last few days.
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You are not carrying something like a pallet of bricks you are fixing the water tank into the van for use every day of the week,I’ve had this explained to me by insurance companies.
If you are transporting something heavy within the weight capacity of the van happy days,you have a daily fixture in your van if it went to court you’d lose.
The ratchet strap points are for securing a load whilst for example you move heavy equipment to a site or a pallet of bricks,if you strap a tank down for everyday use it’s a modification or classed as one or would be if as said goes to court.
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I’ve yet to see a plastic water tank which has been built or modified to take straps,that’ll be the reason they have a frame of some sort round em then.
You may be insured on paper but from what I’ve been told from quiet a few insurers paper is all it is,if I didn’t declare a tank as a fixture for daily use as I said I could reduce my premium by at least 200 quid,I’d be driving round like a nervous wreck though 5-600 litres held down by 2/4 straps lol good luck.
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IMO you are more risk of the insurance company having issue with a local garage bolting your tank in.... come claim time. Can't really argue with the standard, manufacturer designed, tested and supplied system.... but your local garage?
Standard specification Vs local garage untested, modified vehicle? It's more plausible they could argue against the expertise, competence, design, test and suitability of both the supplier and installer IMO. That's the bigger "get out" opportunity.
With all due respect I don't really care about your opinion on this Peavey. I only care about my insurer's opinion, Alexander Swan. I told them both systems were fitted by my local garage. I have hidden nothing. And you're implying my local garage are bodgers which they certainly are not.
All the best anyway. This one always sparks debate. I'm happy with mine.
Happy New Year to you all.
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I’ve yet to see a plastic water tank which has been built or modified to take straps,that’ll be the reason they have a frame of some sort round em then.
You may be insured on paper but from what I’ve been told from quiet a few insurers paper is all it is,if I didn’t declare a tank as a fixture for daily use as I said I could reduce my premium by at least 200 quid,I’d be driving round like a nervous wreck though 5-600 litres held down by 2/4 straps lol good luck.
Imagine if brains were dynamite!!🤣🤣
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IMO you are more risk of the insurance company having issue with a local garage bolting your tank in.... come claim time. Can't really argue with the standard, manufacturer designed, tested and supplied system.... but your local garage?
Standard specification Vs local garage untested, modified vehicle? It's more plausible they could argue against the expertise, competence, design, test and suitability of both the supplier and installer IMO. That's the bigger "get out" opportunity.
With all due respect I don't really care about your opinion on this Peavey. I only care about my insurer's opinion, Alexander Swan. I told them both systems were fitted by my local garage. I have hidden nothing. And you're implying my local garage are bodgers which they certainly are not.
All the best anyway. This one always sparks debate. I'm happy with mine.
Happy New Year to you all.
It's not just about opinion Simon, its about common sense, logic and facts. Very clearly, we are BOTH insured. However, a certain "industry expert" seems to know my insurance policies better than me- even though he's never seen them, knows who the broker or underwriter is etc. And.. this apparently factual statement is founded on "from what I've heard". WOW, Just WOW!🤣
Instead of just accepting that he now has to pay increased premiums because of his van's modification, for some strange reason he's decided to talk utter nonsense on a subject that he clearly knows nothing about- most probably in a self-deluded attempt to justify being relieved of his hard-earned more severely than some others!!👍
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I bet you pull your tank on you’re pony and trap Peavy lol,it’s not a modification because you can use it as a shower outside your caravan when you get back lol.
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You're repeating everything I have already said Ralphi...... get with the programme!!😄
You type too quick.
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How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?
Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)
Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.
The issue of which is safest is another debate.
At least someone understands!!😄👍
lorry load
reason for not strapping full loads of ibc
the bulk head of a lorry trailer has a max weight strength,that is well reinforced at the bottom to try to stop loads moving forward,
curtains of the lorrys have reinforcement built into the straps and the sheets some times mesh
the side of the trailer also somtimes haves lips to stop sideward movement,also a lorry when turning doesnt tilt like a van does on one side,air suspensions helps with this,
load straps used on lorries are rated min of 30ton and cost £30 plus a piece also curtain trailers have inside straps,are and you have some anchor points on some trailers but most of the strapping is done to the underside of the trailer or right under on to the chassis,chains are used when only carry steel or machines
so a full load would only have the backs ones strapped down,and you shouldn't ever double stack fully loaded ibc when transporting as this would have effect of overloading on a vehicle and max you would carry are 26 fully loaded ibc,the max a trailer can take
ex lorry driver and transport manager ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I bet you pull your tank on you’re pony and trap Peavy lol,it’s not a modification because you can use it as a shower outside your caravan when you get back lol.
Back to your childish wibble then Nigel, and still no link to your online insurance form with the bolted in tank tick box, not that any of us really expected one.
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I don’t fill any insurance forms in online m8 my insurance company A Plan told me this is done on a daily basis with vans,you can leave out or fill in what you like it’s at your will to put down what you like but if you leave out things that shouldn’t be in effect you are driving around uninsured.
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They told me they only have 2 underwriters that will take window cleaners that are WFP and then the tank has to be bolted or contained within a frame.
Of course you will get insured it’s very competitive the insurance market like many,it’s up to you to check you’re policy and what’s covered how many people read right through all that small print I know I never used to. I’m not knocking I’m saying be careful because a few insurance companies I’ve spoken to have all said the same,if you ring and say I’m a window cleaner I want insurance they’ll quote you for vehicle only.