Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lee_dewing on December 17, 2019, 07:14:41 am
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https://www.guttervacuumsystems.co.uk/product/51mm-cyclonic-side-entry-kit/
Anyone used this kit to modify their
Gutter vac?
If so was it worth it? Better suctioning?
Less blocks appose to front port
I still thinking about gutter vacs
And like the price and kit of gutter cleaning systems
Come across this vac looks ok 🤔
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=351895601007&category=20614&pm=1&ds=0&t=1573635159000&ver=0&cspheader=1
Thanks
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Does the inside of you container not have a deflector ( where the original connector fits it looks like a plastic elbow that deflects the dirt entering sideways away from the filter) this will do exactly the same thing although I think that ‘thing’ is nothing. ‘Cyclonic action’ has this been shown to actually happen as the crap enters the holding tank?
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Good points there Mike
I have no equipment at the moment just ideas 😁
So it doesn’t matter where entry port is on vac as long as it has a dirt
Deflection plate fitted inside by vac port?👍
Thanks
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Good points there Mike
I have no equipment at the moment just ideas 😁
So it doesn’t matter where entry port is on vac as long as it has a dirt
Deflection plate fitted inside by vac port?👍
Thanks
Our Vac has an elbow inlet into the tank. It does get blocked up from time to time so I have considered a side entry. Grippa also sell this conversion.
We have found an easy solution is to clean the gutters when the contents are wet and to regularly 'drop' the nozzle into a bucket of water to 'flush' the system. The elbow entry does create a cyclonic effect inside the drum.
Personally, I would try to buy a system already set up. A mix and match will create other issues for you.
For example, what size pipe does this vacuum cleaner you linked to have - it doesn't say.
I can't remember the company's name Nick Day runs which supplies gutter vacs. I like the idea of his using an adjustable cross brace on the elbow that the gutter suction nozzle fits into. Without it you have very little control - experience.
(I found it; https://www.guttercleaningsystems.co.uk/about-us/
I would also go for carbon poles. No matter what they say about ali being better (less fragile,) they are very heavy especially when the inside of the pipes clog up with silt. Carbon poles are heavy enough.
Trust me, you also need a camera setup, so all in all, its an expensive bit of kit. You will also need to add a heavy duty cable drum to your kit.
I find the clean up of the equipment afterwards takes about 45 minutes which we don't think about at the time. In winter it means you have to come home early to do it whilst you still have the light.
Other things to consider:
Have you got the room to carry it around with you in your van? Having to come back to a job when the home owner is in if they haven't an outside socket is time wasted.
If they do have an outside socket and you don't have the gutter vac with you, test the outside socket for power when you get the job. You can buy a cheap plug tester.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZPCT1806A-Automatic-Electrical-Socket-Outlet-Tester-With-UK-Plug-230V-65mmx65mm/323598774438?hash=item4b57fd70a6:g:LjkAAOSwOw5deJ3G
We came back to one as we don't have the vac on the van only to find that the outside socket was switched off at the consumer unit inside.
Truthfully, my advice based on my experience is just to concentrate on window cleaning and remove gutter clearing from your portfolio.
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We always configure our machines for gutter cleaning. We cut out the entrance bend and then the muck either hits a deflector that we set 4-5 inches from the entrance with a foam filter or use a bag filter with a piece of scouring pad sewn in to prevent blockages. The flexible bag acts as a deflector.The side entry does the same but is very expensive way of doing it. It is advertised as cyclonic but is not, We have had both nu-matics, the side entry makes no difference to the power.
Answered my questions about side entry vs side port
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Spruce thanks very much for all the info
Plug tester 👍
Yeh, gutter cleaning systems are top of the list: they are a lot cheaper than competitors
Which made me nervous 😟
But looking at the facts
Alex I believe is owner🤔
Was a window cleaner who added gutter vac service as an add on.
Then went on to run and employ for his gutter clearing company
So actually are hands on gutter clearing service
They source there own equipment and make there own 100% carbon poles
They have some unique tools
Weed hook and downpipe clearance
Tool
A little drill with a long screw thread.
May not be as pretty as some of the competition but £95 (drill downpipe tool).
Also go pro camera setup is £69.50
I might be exaggerating but I’m sure I’ve seen some camera units for £500 😬
I take on board Spruce about stick to window cleaning
This is why 2 years and counting I’m still looking at gutter vac 😬😁
Spruce what was you charging for say 3 bed semi.
I was thinking £60 - £75
Others say £3 - £5 a metre
Too expensive 🤔
Need to get one of those metre measuring Clicky wheels 😁
I’ve read that add ons should be twice your windows hourly rate
As not bread and butter
So worthwhile when doing and don’t resent it!
As you say Spruce, machine maintenance/tidying up
Obviously seeing turfs growing out of gutters affects quotes 😁
Thinking of offering customers gutter inspection £15
And if they have gutters cleared within a year then £15 off
So £75 job is £15 inspect and £60 to
pay on gutter vac day
Easy enough to stick go pro on wfp
While cleaning customers windows
Even email footage to customer
See one of my customers having gutters cleared while eating lunch
Just before cleaning there windows
He needed to move ladder at least six or seven times as he was just bucket and hands (nothing wrong with that 👍)
But he only went up 3 times
Maybe moss dirt sludge was only in them 3 sections in gutter 🤔😁
Thinking more profitable doing inspections and telling customer gutters are lovely and won’t need cleaning for years 😁
Thanks again Spruce👍🎄⛄️
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Good point about modifying vac
Don’t 😁
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We have been vaccing gutters for over 20 years and side entry is vital in my experience all front entry will block no matter what the make , the side entry port in your pictures looks fine , side entry will cause a vortex in the drum with the dirt going in , front entry it doesn’t it just goes everywhere,
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Lee - your best off giving it a miss
Darran
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side entry will cause a vortex in the drum with the dirt going in , front entry it doesn’t it just goes everywhere,
Thanks Splash 💦👍
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Lee - your best off giving it a miss
Darran
😁👍
Thanks Darran
Keep on omni vaccing 🙂
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Spruce thanks very much for all the info
Plug tester 👍
Yeh, gutter cleaning systems are top of the list: they are a lot cheaper than competitors
Which made me nervous 😟
But looking at the facts
Alex I believe is owner🤔
Was a window cleaner who added gutter vac service as an add on.
Then went on to run and employ for his gutter clearing company
So actually are hands on gutter clearing service
They source there own equipment and make there own 100% carbon poles
They have some unique tools
Weed hook and downpipe clearance
Tool
A little drill with a long screw thread.
May not be as pretty as some of the competition but £95 (drill downpipe tool).
Also go pro camera setup is £69.50
I might be exaggerating but I’m sure I’ve seen some camera units for £500 😬
I take on board Spruce about stick to window cleaning
This is why 2 years and counting I’m still looking at gutter vac 😬😁
Spruce what was you charging for say 3 bed semi.
I was thinking £60 - £75
Others say £3 - £5 a metre
Too expensive 🤔
Need to get one of those metre measuring Clicky wheels 😁
I’ve read that add ons should be twice your windows hourly rate
As not bread and butter
So worthwhile when doing and don’t resent it!
As you say Spruce, machine maintenance/tidying up
Obviously seeing turfs growing out of gutters affects quotes 😁
Thinking of offering customers gutter inspection £15
And if they have gutters cleared within a year then £15 off
So £75 job is £15 inspect and £60 to
pay on gutter vac day
Easy enough to stick go pro on wfp
While cleaning customers windows
Even email footage to customer
See one of my customers having gutters cleared while eating lunch
Just before cleaning there windows
He needed to move ladder at least six or seven times as he was just bucket and hands (nothing wrong with that 👍)
But he only went up 3 times
Maybe moss dirt sludge was only in them 3 sections in gutter 🤔😁
Thinking more profitable doing inspections and telling customer gutters are lovely and won’t need cleaning for years 😁
Thanks again Spruce👍🎄⛄️
TBH I bought this to use for my existing customers I've done gutter clearing for in the past.
In our area we have a specialist company doing gutter cleans. They quoted £65 to clear the gutter each side of this house and the garage gutter with his gutter vac.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1576596048_Gutter clear.jpg)
The price was rejected and eventually they settled on £45.00. Its 2 lengths of gutters around 10 meters each and the gutter over the double garage.
The garage is joined to the house so the gutters over the garage are a challenge to reach. Honestly, it just not worth the effort for the price perceived by the customer as fair. They don't see the extra time needed to clean up afterwards.
I cleared a short run of guttering today off my ladder. I wasn't going to vacuum it out to begin with but the downpipes were all blocked. When they installed the guttering they fixed them in place with long screws. Each one of these screws had to be unscrewed to let the muck above clear.
We often have to get up on ladders and clear tuffs of vegetation as the vacuum isn't strong enough to remove them. There seems to be a company installing gutter trays in our area. These trays go under the last row of tiles and they sit in the gutter. The trouble is that the roots grow behind these trays and have to be removed with 'force.' IMO and experience, our gutter vac isn't the Bee all and end all of clearing gutters by hand. We still have to use ladders on occasion.
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Cyclonic action is a load of nonsense, just think about it, air enters the chamber and swirls around the barrel... what a load of snake oil ::)roll
What is causing the air to enter the chamber and where is it situated? The vac motor is located in the centre of the drum as soon as air enter the chamber it is pulled towards the force creating the vacuum, the solids held in the air fall out as it is no longer restricted (as when in the vacuum tube) the damp air is sucked & expelled out of the container by the vacuum motors.
Nothing swirls around the tub, it’s marketing BS .....and imagine if it was true why? What does it achieve? it won’t increase the vacuum power that is set by the output of the vac motors........ James dyson has a lot to answer for ;)
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The idea is that the crud fires around the cylinder sides. The normal deflectors are at 90 degrees and block for a pastime.
Guys in my area easily earn £300 for five hours work on full cleans.
I used to do it but gave up for various reasons,
A) it’s hard work, B) doesn’t work on every
job
C) just didn’t have the nerve to change such prices.
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Cyclonic action is a load of nonsense, just think about it, air enters the chamber and swirls around the barrel... what a load of snake oil ::)roll
What is causing the air to enter the chamber and where is it situated? The vac motor is located in the centre of the drum as soon as air enter the chamber it is pulled towards the force creating the vacuum, the solids held in the air fall out as it is no longer restricted (as when in the vacuum tube) the damp air is sucked & expelled out of the container by the vacuum motors.
Nothing swirls around the tub, it’s marketing BS .....and imagine if it was true why? What does it achieve? it won’t increase the vacuum power that is set by the output of the vac motors........ James dyson has a lot to answer for ;)
Trust me mike it does go round the drum in a vortex I will take some pictures on the next job we do and prove it , it’s scientifically proven fact, over 29 years I have had most vacs out there , front enter Maude entry side entry always works far better and I have never had a blockage in the vac ever , with the front entry blockers every other time .
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Spruce
What gutter vac do you have?
Was it gutter cleaning systems?
Yeh people can be tight, also with gutter vac unless your just offering to window Customers and their neighbours
You enter the world of riding around
Quoting bit hit and miss
We’re not use to this working in a repeat business
Eventually if you stick with it you’ll build up a client base 🤔
I remember one of my customers telling me how they’d cleaned all their gutters out
They obviously hadn’t as there were turfs popping out every where 🙆🏻♂️
They’d asked me, I said being alone worker it was dangerous
Passed a number of a window cleaner to them he’s trad always has trebles on board and sends one of he’s merry men up top 😬
He quoted £100
For detached 4 bed house
So £25 a side
Less actually as bit of guttering on lower double garage
He said my customer thought was expensive 🙇🏻♂️
I think if you speak to Decorator’s, plumbers, etc etc
They’d all tell you a lot of messers out there
The mobile mechanic I use is a guy in he’s late 20s
He’s very good and too cheap sometimes, I do tell him and over pay him when necessary
As I like what he does and want to keep he’s service
He tells me people er and Um over he’s prices too 😁
I would hate to be in a business where you are constantly searching for work
My old neighbour is a plasterer and gave up being self employed
He works on the books for building company now and just does the odd cash job on the side.
(Probably end up hating that 😒)
He told me at the end of a working day he would get home wash change clothes
Go out quoting and most of the time was a waste of time
Broke him.
Looks like the jury’s out on side vs front port entry on vacs 🤔😀⛄️❄️
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Side entry - 2” hose - c/f poles and a solid Ali 135 swan neck
Any vac of 3k plus will them zap 99% of gutters
You can get a wet/dry vac from £180
Go to carbon fibre tubes for poles at “trade” price 5 x 6 footers are about £340 + vat - mine have lasted 6 years so far (we vac approx 6 domestics a week - summer and from mid jan to March 10 a day) + commercial stuff
HTH
Darran
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My side entry vac also has never blocked in nine years. The vortex thing is true Mike. If you have a job where there is very little in the gutters and you wizz round in no time. When you look in the vac you can see the pattern of debris "spinning" round the drum.
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Darran
Thanks very much 👍
Any vac of 3k plus will them zap 99% of gutters
Darran
Do you mean 3000 watt or £3000
Not being sarcastic 🙂
Some guitar vacs are £2500 🤭
I know you bought omnivac believe
Off brother in law
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Mine is a Spacevac.
The company was initially on one of Mark Munro's early window cleaning shows and a couple of us bought the kits.
There was a drama regarding this company. They marketed the product on the show and taking orders which were delayed due to a business take over. It took a few months and numerous phone calls before they came up with the goods. Never heard so many pathetic excuses by the staff. I did complain to Mark as I believe he has a duty to vet the credentials of all the suppliers on his stand. He didn't believe he did.
I see what we got is not what they sell now. I have a 1500 watt single motor 30 litre drum with 38mm hose. TBH its worked well, but I have no idea where we will get replacement tubes in the future for the kit we have.
This is why I recommend you deal with a company that has an industry track record. Don't get taken in by sales spiels at the window cleaning show or anywhere else unless they are well known and respected by us in the industry already.
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Yes watts,
The old omnivac is now 10 years old and going strong
Have a gutter sucker and as posted £180 jobby - the omni has slightly more pull and longevity but if the cheapy blows up after say 50 clears it would have aren’t 30x its purchase price
Darran
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Have a gutter sucker and as posted £180 jobby - the omni has slightly more pull and longevity but if the cheapy blows up after say 50 clears it would have aren’t 30x its purchase price
Darran did you buy gutter sucker
Second hand ?
I’ve looked on internet I can’t find gutter sucker 3kw less than £450
Thanks lee
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This is why I recommend you deal with a company that has an industry track record. Don't get taken in by sales spiels at the window cleaning show or anywhere else unless they are well known and respected by us in the industry already.
Thanks for tips Spruce
Sorry to hear about space vac 🙇🏻♂️ Saga
That’s not funny !
I think space vacs are now 3000 watt🤔
Thanks lee
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This is why I recommend you deal with a company that has an industry track record. Don't get taken in by sales spiels at the window cleaning show or anywhere else unless they are well known and respected by us in the industry already.
Thanks for tips Spruce
Sorry to hear about space vac 🙇🏻♂️ Saga
That’s not funny !
I think space vacs are now 3000 watt🤔
Thanks lee
Yes, I see that. At 3000 watts, those motors are drawing everything a 13amp socket plugged into a customers house will give. I worried about that.
I still regret buying a SWB van. We really needed either a MWB or a LWB. I honestly believe you need to carry your gutter vac stuff around with you and you need to have a generator as well to be fully self sufficient when needed. Yes use the customer electricity when you can, but have your own backup in case.
It just seems that nearly every gutter clearing job we get is a spur of the moment request by a customer. Every one just seems to be a long winded drama.
We have a couple of yearly jobs. Plug the extension cable into the outside wall socket and the job is quick. But the ones where we have to arrange the job when the customer is in just aren't worth it. We had a prearranged job the other day and the customer was out when she agreed she would be in the previous evening.
"Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. Can we do it early in the new year?"
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"Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. Can we do it early in the new year?"
Yes we can, new price is
(original price +£50 cancellations fee for last times not in🤔 optional)
This is payable up front into my bank account via internet transfer
Once an appointment is made funds are non refundable unless 48 hrs notice is given.
(Maybe something in writing to be signed here Spruce).
Maybe something like this could be put into practice for non clients
i.e
Non window cleaning customers
Or messers as like to call them
I can think of another very good one syllable word too 🤭
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"Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. Can we do it early in the new year?"
Yes we can, new price is
(original price +£50 cancellations fee for last times not in🤔 optional)
This is payable up front into my bank account via internet transfer
Once an appointment is made funds are non refundable unless 48 hrs notice is given.
(Maybe something in writing to be signed here Spruce).
Maybe something like this could be put into practice for non clients
i.e
Non window cleaning customers
Or messers as like to call them
I can think of another very good one syllable word too 🤭
I'm pretty easy going with my customers. This particular lady is retired and does volunteer work. She is lovely and always tips us, but she's with the fairies some of the time. That's the way she is.
We live in a small village and we always bump into our customers, whether its out walking the dog, at the petrol station or in the super market. So we are never aggressive in our business stance with people. A large portion of the village know me even although I have never met most of them. And they talk and gossip. Its our reputation at stake. It quite scary the number of customers who have approached me in the street I've never met before, calling me by name and asking for a window cleaning quote. My van isn't lettered either and never has been.
There is another cleaner in our area who is rather short with his customer's to the point of being brash. People know him as well and he isn't spoken of very favourably. He also has a high customer turn over. We don't.
This is why I try to be self sufficient. Window cleaning is one of those jobs you can do without anyone being at home. Gutter clearing isn't unless you can do it off ladders or have a gen set. For a 3000 watt vacuum cleaner you need a big gen set.
Personally, I getting too old to get involved with gutter clearing and conservatory roof cleans. Numerous windies in our area refuse to do those jobs for their customers. I'm asking why I should fill the gap.
I'm sure in some places you need to do as you suggest. Payment up front etc. but 99% of our customers are great. They are because they put up with me. ;D
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I hear what your saying Spruce👍
I operate the same.
I talk a good fight 🥊😯
Sometimes you have to take it on the
Chin!
But with gutter clearing; non window customers maybe a slightly
Inflated price🤔
Like A.P.R on credit cards
90% of the decent customers, pay for
The 10% that are messers.
Did think about a lot of rule making in the beginning of my business 14 yrs ago
But at the end of the day the only way I found to treat a messer is a suspension in service and standing order setup
(which I’m considering changing to go cardless only for this type of Window cleaning customer.
Last stop before the 🗑 bin)
paper work or reciteing lots of do and don’ts in front of a potential new
Customer could be off putting
Seeing it from the customers point of view
Like you say 99% people are ok
Waiting for rain to stop 🤦♂️
Ps. Understand your thoughts about
Why should I clean your gutters, Connie roof because your window cleaner won’t
Get a new window cleaner Me 🤣
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Lee/Spruce - my observations are as follows - you are unsure/don't like gutter vac'ing maybe this comes across to the customer in the same way they suss out a newbie window cleaner
Vac'ing is a great add on, but you do need to have the right kit and I don't mean the expensive stuff - over the years ive seen the threads and been told the 'you can't do this or that - honestly you can, but not with a silicone bend nor with. 38mm pipes also ( and I haven't checked ) did you not post from gutter cleaning solutions that they leave the filter bag in ?? ( madness! )
I did get the gutter second hand a couple of years back but the latest vac is £180 off eBay - guess what - its got all the same innards as a gutter sucker ( AMETEK motors )
Darran
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Hi Darran,
You mention an Ali 135 degree gooseneck. Could you elaborate a bit more on this?
There are a few on eBay with swaged ends. How do you make the connection between the CF modular pole and the gutter attachment? 51mm/2" couplers with wormdrive/mikalor clamps or other?
I assume you don't like the silicone gooseneck as there's too much flex in them? It does seem easy just sticking the pole and attachments in.
Thanks in advance.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1576840419_uframe7_1.jpg)
one of these - grippa do them or streamline/sky vac. - bond it into one section of your carbon poles - you can now push slipped tiles into place drag/push and loosen up turfs etc...
Darran
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Hi Darran,
You mention an Ali 135 degree gooseneck. Could you elaborate a bit more on this?
There are a few on eBay with swaged ends. How do you make the connection between the CF modular pole and the gutter attachment? 51mm/2" couplers with wormdrive/mikalor clamps or other?
I assume you don't like the silicone gooseneck as there's too much flex in them? It does seem easy just sticking the pole and attachments in.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Tim,
Nice to see you on.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1576840419_uframe7_1.jpg)
one of these - grippa do them or streamline/sky vac. - bond it into one section of your carbon poles - you can now push slipped tiles into place drag/push and loosen up turfs etc...
Darran
I've been seriously think along these lines as I believe it would make things a little easier. I can manage with the 135 degree silicon bend just, but the 180 degree bend is a struggle.
Yes, you are right. When I was younger gutter cleaning was an add on job I needed. Nowadays its become a chore.
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Hi Spruce, long time no see.
Darran, do you still use a push on attachment at the end of the gooseneck or do you personally just use it like that?
It looks like the Grippatank is a bit cheaper but looks like the end isn't slimmer to accept alloy tools to slide over.
It's a bit confusing without actually seeing it in your hands. The Grippatank website does have some very low resolution pictures. Probably on purpose. ::)roll ;D
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We don’t really use tools on the end any more - for tight gutter gaps we have a short piece of silicone pipe approx 6 inches long - this squashes into a narrow gaps we use a 90 degree piece for some reach over gutters other than that it’s he Ali swan neck - however I do swage the end down by about 5mm to allow easy insertion into the down pipes
Spruce - never used a 180 bend ( all the wrong angles to clear )
Darran