Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jonny 87 on October 24, 2019, 12:10:28 pm
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So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
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So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
The problem is that over time batteries loose their capacity. So your 110 amp becomes 50 amps. You won't notice it until its capacity drops below your daily current draw. If it recharges quicker at night than it did then your battery is loosing capacity.
If you are drawing 30 amps an hour then you are using some serious current.
If each pump under load runs for a full hour it will probably consume 4 to 5 amps. I used to believe that we ran our pumps for 50% of the time each hour. I'm now thinking its much less. The other day I thought I was really getting stuck in and used 3 amps of current over 2 hours.
Your diesel heater will draw a maximum of 20 amps on starting up and that's not 20 amps for a full 3 minutes. If it draws 20 amps for 3 minutes that Webasto has only drawn 1amp over the hour.
When the Webasto runs it won't draw much more than 3 amps an hour.
Your hose reels will draw around 30 amps for what, about 30 to 40 seconds twice an hour each.
IMHO you aren't drawing much current over a day. What you are doing is drawing a lot of current in short bursts. Most leisure batteries aren't designed to have 50 or 60 amps drawn from them over 30 secs when reeling in 2 hose reels at the same time.
I would be pretty certain that this is what is killing your batteries. I would be looking for something that is a combination battery; something showing a CCA rating. A battery that can be used as a starter and leisure battery is probably a better choice for you. But as always, there is no perfect solution as a combo battery is neither an excellent leisure battery or an excellent starter battery. Its a compromise.
The battery you have linked to says it can be used with a motor mover but it doesn't give a CCA value (cold cranking amps.) The specs also tell us that it has a recharge cycle of 70 charges. They are telling you how poor it is. 70 charge cycles is poor and on that alone I wouldn't look at it any further. What they don't tell you is what figure they have based the depth of discharge on to get to this 70 recharges. Most leisure battery manufacturers say we shouldn't discharge our batteries below 50%. If they have used this bench mark then you could well have to replace that battery within 2 to 3 months.
What batteries are Grippa selling is a question you could ask yourself.
What ever you choose, its also important to remember that there aren't any battery manufacturers that will give a battery warranty to window cleaners, so forget the advertised 2, 3 or 5 year warranty.
I would also re-look at your leisure battery charger. Is it putting out enough current to recharge both batteries overnight? Grippa fitted a diesel heater to Daz's van (in case you haven't heard) and added another 115 amp Numax battery. They supplied him with a 20 amp charger. CTEK are good battery chargers but as they are expensive 5amp charges seem to be what most have. It doesn't matter if it takes 3 days to fully recharge the batteries in the motor home as it will only be used next weekend again if the weather is right.
I'm not recommending these batteries but have linked them so you can compare the difference between the Alpha battery and this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120ah-Dual-Purpose-Dual-Terminal-Leisure-Battery-LXD120-1000-Mca/173814450937?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60097%26meid%3D2574d6b5fc3a454fa6940b4ed8bab7b6%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D171945324452%26itm%3D173814450937%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
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I just replaced my battery, its a 150ah trojan beast of a battery, cost £230.
I had it for 20 months, it died seemingly all of a sudden on Monday. I took it back where I got it from and bought the same one again.
I told them my charger is only 4 amps but it does the job when left on overnight, they said that a 4 amp only charge is not enough and will be detrimental as it's not enough for the acid to circulate fully around the plates.
I now need to upgrade my charger, we'll see in another 20 months if a new charger is beneficial.
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I just replaced my battery, its a 150ah trojan beast of a battery, cost £230.
I had it for 20 months, it died seemingly all of a sudden on Monday. I took it back where I got it from and bought the same one again.
I told them my charger is only 4 amps but it does the job when left on overnight, they said that a 4 amp only charge is not enough and will be detrimental as it's not enough for the acid to circulate fully around the plates.
I now need to upgrade my charger, we'll see in another 20 months if a new charger is beneficial.
Trojan used to be the battery that sailing yachts would use as they were the most reliable. Not any more.
Nowadays Lithium is the battery of choice because it can happily be discharged to 20% and can provide large amounts of power when needed. But they also bring a new set of problems. They are very expensive for one. Because these batteries can be recharged very quickly they now have to have additional electronics to protect the alternator from over heating and burning out.
Lithium is good for warm climates but a lithium battery stored in conditions below freezing becomes a recharging issue.
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I always read you should charge leiesure battery’s with the lowest setting on a smart charger spruce?
I’ve always set my ring smart charger to 2 amps, (it can charge at 4, 6 or 8 amps as well) it always seems to fully charge overnight?
Should I be using the 8 amp mode?
My battery is 115ah
Edit - just read some more info, and it does seem the advice for charging a leisure battery is slow and long charging...
So maybe 2-4 amps is ideal...
-
I always read you should charge leiesure battery’s with the lowest setting on a smart charger spruce?
I’ve always set my ring smart charger to 2 amps, (it can charge at 4, 6 or 8 amps as well) it always seems to fully charge overnight?
Should I be using the 8 amp mode?
My battery is 115ah
Edit - just read some more info, and it does seem the advice for charging a leisure battery is slow and long charging...
So maybe 2-4 amps is ideal...
I have a huge leisure battery on my Caravan and a small solar panel keeps it charged
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I have a solar panel on the roof of my van, but still needs bench charging every few nights, and even more in winter.
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I always read you should charge leiesure battery’s with the lowest setting on a smart charger spruce?
I’ve always set my ring smart charger to 2 amps, (it can charge at 4, 6 or 8 amps as well) it always seems to fully charge overnight?
Should I be using the 8 amp mode?
My battery is 115ah
Edit - just read some more info, and it does seem the advice for charging a leisure battery is slow and long charging...
So maybe 2-4 amps is ideal...
If you are happy with the performance and durability of your battery then you don't need to change anything.
Numax did tell me once that its best to charge a leisure battery at no more than 10% of its capacity.
As a battery on charge gets more full the rate at which is absorbs charge reduces. If you take 5 amps out of a fully charged leisure battery in an hour, it will likely take a charger longer than an hour to replace that charge.
If you battery is down 20 amps that day and you are recharging at a maximum of 2 amps its going to take longer than 10 hours to replace that.
But if solar is putting something back in then every little helps.
I've mentioned before that my leisure battery is nearly 5 years old. Over 4 years of it's life has been a boost with a split charge relay, charged every night, all night in winter and every second night in summer with my 10 amp charger.
I don't know what its capacity is like now but still gets both of us through a hard day without faltering.
-
I always read you should charge leiesure battery’s with the lowest setting on a smart charger spruce?
I’ve always set my ring smart charger to 2 amps, (it can charge at 4, 6 or 8 amps as well) it always seems to fully charge overnight?
Should I be using the 8 amp mode?
My battery is 115ah
Edit - just read some more info, and it does seem the advice for charging a leisure battery is slow and long charging...
So maybe 2-4 amps is ideal...
I always charge on the lowest amps overnight 2A. If I was pushed for time with a flat battery obviously would put in a fast charge of 8-16A but not so kind in the long life of the battery
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So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
do you not have a smart split charge relay wired up to your batteries as well jonny?you need one........,a decent 20amp charger like the numax "connect and forget" charger and charge it up overnight every night.....
mine are nearly 2 years old and still working fine(2 x 105ah numax starter/leisure batteries)
i only have one pump and a one electric reel.....why do you have 2?i thought you worked on your own?
i leave my engine running at lunchtime too to put a bit of extra charge into the batteries ....
-
So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
The problem is that over time batteries loose their capacity. So your 110 amp becomes 50 amps. You won't notice it until its capacity drops below your daily current draw. If it recharges quicker at night than it did then your battery is loosing capacity.
If you are drawing 30 amps an hour then you are using some serious current.
If each pump under load runs for a full hour it will probably consume 4 to 5 amps. I used to believe that we ran our pumps for 50% of the time each hour. I'm now thinking its much less. The other day I thought I was really getting stuck in and used 3 amps of current over 2 hours.
Your diesel heater will draw a maximum of 20 amps on starting up and that's not 20 amps for a full 3 minutes. If it draws 20 amps for 3 minutes that Webasto has only drawn 1amp over the hour.
When the Webasto runs it won't draw much more than 3 amps an hour.
Your hose reels will draw around 30 amps for what, about 30 to 40 seconds twice an hour each.
IMHO you aren't drawing much current over a day. What you are doing is drawing a lot of current in short bursts. Most leisure batteries aren't designed to have 50 or 60 amps drawn from them over 30 secs when reeling in 2 hose reels at the same time.
I would be pretty certain that this is what is killing your batteries. I would be looking for something that is a combination battery; something showing a CCA rating. A battery that can be used as a starter and leisure battery is probably a better choice for you. But as always, there is no perfect solution as a combo battery is neither an excellent leisure battery or an excellent starter battery. Its a compromise.
The battery you have linked to says it can be used with a motor mover but it doesn't give a CCA value (cold cranking amps.) The specs also tell us that it has a recharge cycle of 70 charges. They are telling you how poor it is. 70 charge cycles is poor and on that alone I wouldn't look at it any further. What they don't tell you is what figure they have based the depth of discharge on to get to this 70 recharges. Most leisure battery manufacturers say we shouldn't discharge our batteries below 50%. If they have used this bench mark then you could well have to replace that battery within 2 to 3 months.
What batteries are Grippa selling is a question you could ask yourself.
What ever you choose, its also important to remember that there aren't any battery manufacturers that will give a battery warranty to window cleaners, so forget the advertised 2, 3 or 5 year warranty.
I would also re-look at your leisure battery charger. Is it putting out enough current to recharge both batteries overnight? Grippa fitted a diesel heater to Daz's van (in case you haven't heard) and added another 115 amp Numax battery. They supplied him with a 20 amp charger. CTEK are good battery chargers but as they are expensive 5amp charges seem to be what most have. It doesn't matter if it takes 3 days to fully recharge the batteries in the motor home as it will only be used next weekend again if the weather is right.
I'm not recommending these batteries but have linked them so you can compare the difference between the Alpha battery and this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120ah-Dual-Purpose-Dual-Terminal-Leisure-Battery-LXD120-1000-Mca/173814450937?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60097%26meid%3D2574d6b5fc3a454fa6940b4ed8bab7b6%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D171945324452%26itm%3D173814450937%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
Thanks for the reply spruce. Really appreciate your knowledge and in depth answer. You’ve fit me thinking now if I’ve just had a bad battery and would be better spending the money on 2 quality 115 amp batteries.
On a side note...... this is the charger I use....
https://www.onnsports.co.uk/battery-charger-mxs-25-eu-bd87/
Do you think it could be overkill and charging too fast? Theres talk that a charger works best by slow charging. This charger was expensive and pumps out a fair bit of power.
-
So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
do you not have a smart split charge relay wired up to your batteries as well jonny?you need one........,a decent 20amp charger like the numax "connect and forget" charger and charge it up overnight every night.....
mine are nearly 2 years old and still working fine(2 x 105ah numax starter/leisure batteries)
i only have one pump and a one electric reel.....why do you have 2?i thought you worked on your own?
i leave my engine running at lunchtime too to put a bit of extra charge into the batteries ....
Yeah I’ve got the battery to battery charger too, and a 25 amp Charger. I think it’s the fact I do hardly any miles some days, and those days are where the battery drops too low by lunch time.
Also the wife works with me now too. 8) that’s why I’ve got a 2 man set up.
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You need one of my heaters Jonny , 4 amps per hour for pump and heater ;D
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So I think I need more power captain. (Star trek reference)
Currently have about 200amps in the van, but my power is draining too quick. By lunch time the heater shuts down.
I’ve got a ctek smart charger, and the batteries charge up fine, they are just not holding the charge. One battery was added a year ago with my grippa heater, and the other battery was from
The year previous.
Adding up my usage though and I think 2x 115 amps batteries isn’t enough.
I’ve got 2 pumps, 2 powered reels, and a grippa heater.
Potentially 30amps an hour of power draw, and some days I move the van only a
Couple Of times. I also connect the batteries to to the mains every night.
So I’m thinking..... 300 amps would be better for me.
What about 2 of these.......
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/180-ah-ultra-plus-leisure-battery/
They look decent, but am I missing anything? I must admit, batteries I don’t know much about.
Thanks chaps.
Jonny.
The problem is that over time batteries loose their capacity. So your 110 amp becomes 50 amps. You won't notice it until its capacity drops below your daily current draw. If it recharges quicker at night than it did then your battery is loosing capacity.
If you are drawing 30 amps an hour then you are using some serious current.
If each pump under load runs for a full hour it will probably consume 4 to 5 amps. I used to believe that we ran our pumps for 50% of the time each hour. I'm now thinking its much less. The other day I thought I was really getting stuck in and used 3 amps of current over 2 hours.
Your diesel heater will draw a maximum of 20 amps on starting up and that's not 20 amps for a full 3 minutes. If it draws 20 amps for 3 minutes that Webasto has only drawn 1amp over the hour.
When the Webasto runs it won't draw much more than 3 amps an hour.
Your hose reels will draw around 30 amps for what, about 30 to 40 seconds twice an hour each.
IMHO you aren't drawing much current over a day. What you are doing is drawing a lot of current in short bursts. Most leisure batteries aren't designed to have 50 or 60 amps drawn from them over 30 secs when reeling in 2 hose reels at the same time.
I would be pretty certain that this is what is killing your batteries. I would be looking for something that is a combination battery; something showing a CCA rating. A battery that can be used as a starter and leisure battery is probably a better choice for you. But as always, there is no perfect solution as a combo battery is neither an excellent leisure battery or an excellent starter battery. Its a compromise.
The battery you have linked to says it can be used with a motor mover but it doesn't give a CCA value (cold cranking amps.) The specs also tell us that it has a recharge cycle of 70 charges. They are telling you how poor it is. 70 charge cycles is poor and on that alone I wouldn't look at it any further. What they don't tell you is what figure they have based the depth of discharge on to get to this 70 recharges. Most leisure battery manufacturers say we shouldn't discharge our batteries below 50%. If they have used this bench mark then you could well have to replace that battery within 2 to 3 months.
What batteries are Grippa selling is a question you could ask yourself.
What ever you choose, its also important to remember that there aren't any battery manufacturers that will give a battery warranty to window cleaners, so forget the advertised 2, 3 or 5 year warranty.
I would also re-look at your leisure battery charger. Is it putting out enough current to recharge both batteries overnight? Grippa fitted a diesel heater to Daz's van (in case you haven't heard) and added another 115 amp Numax battery. They supplied him with a 20 amp charger. CTEK are good battery chargers but as they are expensive 5amp charges seem to be what most have. It doesn't matter if it takes 3 days to fully recharge the batteries in the motor home as it will only be used next weekend again if the weather is right.
I'm not recommending these batteries but have linked them so you can compare the difference between the Alpha battery and this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120ah-Dual-Purpose-Dual-Terminal-Leisure-Battery-LXD120-1000-Mca/173814450937?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60097%26meid%3D2574d6b5fc3a454fa6940b4ed8bab7b6%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D171945324452%26itm%3D173814450937%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
Thanks for the reply spruce. Really appreciate your knowledge and in depth answer. You’ve fit me thinking now if I’ve just had a bad battery and would be better spending the money on 2 quality 115 amp batteries.
On a side note...... this is the charger I use....
https://www.onnsports.co.uk/battery-charger-mxs-25-eu-bd87/
Do you think it could be overkill and charging too fast? Theres talk that a charger works best by slow charging. This charger was expensive and pumps out a fair bit of power.
Your charger shouldn't be a problem as it is more than sufficient to charge up 2 battery banks. A leisure battery will only accept the current it can absorb. If you are charging 2 x 115amph leisure batteries together then the maximum output of the charger of 25amps divided between 2 batteries is 12.5 amps each. That's no problem. The charger won't be pushing a charge of 25 amps into both batteries for long either as it will quickly drop down.
If you go for a combination starter and leisure battery, then the battery will accept a higher current charge anyway.
The other consideration is how your 2 leisure batteries are connected together.
If one battery is bad (as the Americans say) then the good leisure battery will just be pumping charge into the bad battery and they will both end up flat.
The manufacturers always recommend you have 2 batteries the same and the same age if you are going to link them together.
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Thanks spruce. That makes sense! The batteries are conected in parallel but one is a year older than the other. That could be the issue with one failed battery.
Thanks for your help and that info. Really appreciate it. Your like The oracle of electrics. :)
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You need one of my heaters Jonny , 4 amps per hour for pump and heater ;D
I’ve got a jeep that gets used for work a couple days a week too so don’t worry, I’ll probably be buying one off you too. ;D
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I always read you should charge leiesure battery’s with the lowest setting on a smart charger spruce?
I’ve always set my ring smart charger to 2 amps, (it can charge at 4, 6 or 8 amps as well) it always seems to fully charge overnight?
Should I be using the 8 amp mode?
My battery is 115ah
Edit - just read some more info, and it does seem the advice for charging a leisure battery is slow and long charging...
So maybe 2-4 amps is ideal...
If you are happy with the performance and durability of your battery then you don't need to change anything.
Numax did tell me once that its best to charge a leisure battery at no more than 10% of its capacity.
As a battery on charge gets more full the rate at which is absorbs charge reduces. If you take 5 amps out of a fully charged leisure battery in an hour, it will likely take a charger longer than an hour to replace that charge.
If you battery is down 20 amps that day and you are recharging at a maximum of 2 amps its going to take longer than 10 hours to replace that.
But if solar is putting something back in then every little helps.
I've mentioned before that my leisure battery is nearly 5 years old. Over 4 years of it's life has been a boost with a split charge relay, charged every night, all night in winter and every second night in summer with my 10 amp charger.
I don't know what its capacity is like now but still gets both of us through a hard day without faltering.
Have to agree with spruce.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery
One of the most damaging things we can do to led acid batteries is to leave them in a discharged state. So if you want them to last get them on charge as soon as your home and set it around 10% charge. The bulk of the energy going in is only the first stage and the rest takes much longer. So as said if your putting it on only a 2a charge it may not get fully charged by the morning.
As pointed out a 115ah battery can take 11-12 amp charge no trouble and 2 of those batteries in parallel can take 24 amps.
I moved away from lead acid and to a lithium battery I built myself. It’s around 115 ah and charge it at 22amps, as lithium can be charged at its equivalent ah rating, and that’s as fast as my charger goes. Like others using 2 pumps, electric reel and diesel heater.
Keep those lead acids topped up every night. Not letting them drop below 50 of the rating and charge around 10% or its AH rating.
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do you have CTEK dc to dc split charger?
if yes do you have the smart pass or standard 20amp?
if standard you will need a CTEK smart pass to link to it.
as for batteries , if you take 40amps out you need to replace amps as soon as poss, if you deplete the 115amp deep cycle past half way it may not accept a charge quickly enough to replenish what's been used, this type of use will kill a battery very quickly.
so if you use loads of amps then either buy a 200 amp deep cycle AGM or lithium 100amp plus. and upgrade your CTEK to dc to dc with smart pass or red arc dc to dc split charger and throw a 2-300watt solar panel on the van too for good measure.
another thing to note is that if you have a new van then the alternator works slightly differently to older types and your dc dc split charge system needs to be compatible to new alternator type.
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One question I have is about when to charge , we are told to get them back on charge as soon as possible but I thought they had to sit dormant for about 4 hours so they can settle and give the charger a true reading of state of charge ?
Which is it ?
Having just got a Numax 105 that will be charged every night I am starting to question my chargers , both smart , one is an Avon 8 Amp and the other a Halfords with 2 settings , standard at 5 Amp and sealed at 3.7 Amp , out of the two I trust the Halfords one more on sealed setting but am wondering if it will put a charge in fast enough ?
I have power analysers on the van so know what comes out daily , I am just about to fit an identical analyser inline on my charger to see if the charger puts in what I know has come out at the time it switches to float and maintain
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Maybe a sml quiet generator may help power all your gear?
Something like this maybe? Clarke IG2200 2.2kW Inverter Generator???
Ive not looked into your power draw, but just a idea. Good luck.
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One question I have is about when to charge , we are told to get them back on charge as soon as possible but I thought they had to sit dormant for about 4 hours so they can settle and give the charger a true reading of state of charge ?
Which is it ?
Having just got a Numax 105 that will be charged every night I am starting to question my chargers , both smart , one is an Avon 8 Amp and the other a Halfords with 2 settings , standard at 5 Amp and sealed at 3.7 Amp , out of the two I trust the Halfords one more on sealed setting but am wondering if it will put a charge in fast enough ?
I have power analysers on the van so know what comes out daily , I am just about to fit an identical analyser inline on my charger to see if the charger puts in what I know has come out at the time it switches to float and maintain
TBH I don't often check the batteries actual state of charge after 4 hours all that often. Generally I find that there isn't that much difference after a couple of hours.
I just used to plug the charger in when I got home and let it do its job overnight. I have to say over the years its done a good job. Since I've had this charger and done this charging procedure I haven't had a battery last less than 3 years and that was a cheap Orange battery - both in name and in colour I got from Ropers Caravan World over 12 years ago now.
I didn't put the charger on last night. We did a bit of work yesterday morning before the rain came in and drove 5 miles home. Checking the leisure battery voltage is much easier with the Victron battery monitor as I just step outside the front door, point my phone at the van on the drive and activate the app.
In fact I have just done that and the battery voltage is 12.95v so fully charged. Its my van starter battery that's a problem as that has dropped to 12.56 volts. The van hasn't moved since 2pm yesterday.
If I put the charger onto the battery today (I'm not going to as its still raining) the charger will go straight to float mode.
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My little analyser experiment appears to have worked, yesterday I ran the system until 5Amps was taken from my fully charged battery.
I then let the battery sit for a few hours while I did other bits and wired in the spare analyser to my charger .
It gave the results as follows ...
Standard - 14.4V @ 4 Amp
Sealed - 14.4V @ 2 Amp
I decided to go with the sealed setting as only 5 Amp was missing
I assumed that if the charge rates stayed the same that it would take about 2.5 hours to get to float and maintain mode .
It actually took 3 hours and the charge rates did stay at the same levels , battery has now been resting overnight, when I get out of bed in a bit I will take a multimeter reading then whack it back on a sealed charge to see what it does !
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I think that when I do a normal 6 hour stint at around 24 Amps use I may use the standard setting as the voltages of both settings were the same , tbh I was expecting the sealed voltage to be 14.2V but then it’s only a £40 Halfords charger isn’t it ;D
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Ok , so this was the voltage with an overnight rest
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572088406_B3CEFA7E-1007-4621-81D7-9E5295553236.png)
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And this is back on sealed charge at 12.10 , let’s see what it takes in Amps once it’s hit maintain again
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572088626_68EAC746-612C-4E27-85D4-1E214FF6254C.png)
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That didn’t take long , 13 minutes, I can only assume that the battery is fully charged then ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572089171_9393EFC9-E95E-4A9D-BAFA-43058C1C3AE9.png)
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With both of those analyzers monitoring charging and output current you will get a better idea how your battery charging is going.
The Victron Battery monitor I have doesn't give me that level of detail. It seems to re-calibrate the system battery back to 100% fully charged when it records a voltage anywhere between 12.7 volts and above.
I can finish the last job and before leaving I see the battery monitor tells me I have consumed 5 amps from the battery. When I get home the battery monitor indicates they I'm still 2amps down. But once the van has been stationary for a few hours the monitor resets itself to 100% fully charged and clears the 2 amps deficit using the battery reading voltage at rest.
This is exactly what happened yesterday and the battery voltage shows 12.95 volts after resting all night.
Where the cutoff point is when your charger goes from bulk to absorption and float charge is determined by the manufacturer of the battery charger. I don't know exactly how the manufacturers determine this point but when bulk charging is finished but I'm assuming the its to do with a combination of charge rate and time.
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It’s all very confusing eh !
As long as my analyser on the bench charger puts in what the analyser on the van says has been used I don’t think I can go far wrong !
There is of course then the solar in to be accounted for too !
So my formula will be...van analyser amps out minus solar amps in equals amount of charger amps registered before float is reached. ;D ;D ;D
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under load(my heater shutting down and reeling hose in at the same time)at the end of my working day my voltage can read as low as 12.2.......but then goes up to 12.6 after the heaters 3 min shut off finishes and hose has been reeled in......is this normal?
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under load(my heater shutting down and reeling hose in at the same time)at the end of my working day my voltage can read as low as 12.2.......but then goes up to 12.6 after the heaters 3 min shut off finishes and hose has been reeled in......is this normal?
Yes. The voltage drops when the battery is under load but 'recovers' when the load is removed.
This is why Spring and Varistream controllers are programmed to shut power off when the battery voltage drops to 10.3/10.4v under load. If you left that battery for a few hours when the controllers shut down the battery would return to around 12v.
10.4v under load is flat as is a rested battery showing 12.0v.
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Thanks spruce......
Also when I start my engine in the morning my voltage is reading 14v and falls to 13.7 when I fire the heater up....
Is this normal too?
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I’m still in a quandary what batteries to buy. ???
The more I research the more I seem To confuse myself.
I’ve been looking into AGM batteries as they seem
To have far better “deep cycle” facilities.
Who knows. I might just end up buying 2 yuasa 115 leisure batteries and see how long they last.
Aslong as I get 2 years Atleast out of them then I suppose I shouldn’t complain.
My power use has just really increased the last few years, whereas my batteries haven’t. My last yuasa battery lasted 5 years, but that was with a cold system and manually reels. Big difference to now.
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Thanks spruce......
Also when I start my engine in the morning my voltage is reading 14v and falls to 13.7 when I fire the heater up....
Is this normal too?
The voltage you are reading is the driving force of the power you want to start your heater. As soon as you demand the battery to do a task the voltage will drop.
14.0v is not a stabalized voltage. If you left the battery for 4 hours it would drop to 12.7v or above. So the moment your take power from that battery showing a high voltage, you are helping to stabalise the voltage across the battery cells. In your case the battery voltage will not recover from 13.7v if you switched all power draw from the battery.
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I’m still in a quandary what batteries to buy. ???
The more I research the more I seem To confuse myself.
I’ve been looking into AGM batteries as they seem
To have far better “deep cycle” facilities.
Who knows. I might just end up buying 2 yuasa 115 leisure batteries and see how long they last.
Aslong as I get 2 years Atleast out of them then I suppose I shouldn’t complain.
My power use has just really increased the last few years, whereas my batteries haven’t. My last yuasa battery lasted 5 years, but that was with a cold system and manually reels. Big difference to now.
why dont you phone grippatank and ask their advice on what batteries they recommend?im sure oliver would be helpful.....
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2 of these
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572378627_40050872-0FEA-489F-B8A2-A7E0F3CD1309.png)
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Or better still 2 of these !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572378701_17F661B4-E2B8-4299-9EAA-1E29FC1EFF1D.png)
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Thanks P@f
Numax seem to be what grippa recommend too.
Great minds think alike. ;D
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Your best bet is to get a numax commercial 20amp charger too and charge up every night.....
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Your best bet is to get a numax commercial 20amp charger too and charge up every night.....
Already do daz. A ctek 25amp charger that cost me a pretty penny. I think I’ve just had a failed battery.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1572541864_1BCCA72D-8132-4750-96DF-9680E456AFD5.jpeg)
You know you’ve ordered 2 heavy duty batteries when they come on a pallet. ;D
Numax leisure batteries, 180amp each.
It’s probably overkill, but call it an experiment. My theory is that if I’ve got excess power, then I should be depleting the batteries very little, and I’m
Also going to charge them every night. (My ctek MXS 25 charger is built for 300 amp plus).
If I get less than 2 years out of these batteries then I’ll go back to two standard 115 amp batteries.
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That’s the bad boys !
I reckon you won’t take any more than 25% out of the beasts .
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That’s the bad boys !
I reckon you won’t take any more than 25% out of the beasts .
After seeing you post them, I did some research and they seem decent! 40kg a pop mind you. Glad I’ve got plenty of payload in my traffic van. :o
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My MF 31 is heavy enough !
Just remember when you are done with them they could get you £15 a pop at the scrappie at that weight
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My MF 31 is heavy enough !
Just remember when you are done with them they could get you £15 a pop at the scrappie at that weight
Didn’t know that! Thanks p@F.