Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: chris turner on September 22, 2019, 09:59:22 pm
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My RO has been creeping up the last month, from 12 to 22 and output dropping, so I was about to replace the membrane but decided to see if I could clean it instead and save myself some dollars. Turns out you can!
Removed membrane, bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach, then stuck the membrane in a long pot full of pure water and some HG washing machine descaler (whole bottle).
Left the membrane to soak overnight, reinserted back into housing, flushed for 30 mins and low and behold tds has dropped back to 12 and output is back to normal.
Not sure if this is a permanent fix or a short term remedy but if I get another 6 months or a year out of the membrane, then its definitely worth the £5 spend on the descaler for anyone who wants to try it!
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My 450 gpd R.O was producing high last year so i stripped it down, bleached it all and cleaned it etc.
It dropped a few TDS
The pipes and housings definitely do get contaminated over time.
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My 450 gpd R.O was producing high last year so i stripped it down, bleached it all and cleaned it etc.
It dropped a few TDS
The pipes and housings definitely do get contaminated over time.
I use a twin 4021 membrane setup, to replace both membranes it's about £500.
Its definitely worth giving them a clean and soak in descaler before thinking about replacing, especially if you live in a very hard water area.
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My 450 gpd R.O was producing high last year so i stripped it down, bleached it all and cleaned it etc.
It dropped a few TDS
The pipes and housings definitely do get contaminated over time.
I use a twin 4021 membrane setup, to replace both membranes it's about £500.
Its definitely worth giving them a clean and soak in descaler before thinking about replacing, especially if you live in a very hard water area.
The cost of membranes put me off buying a 4040 or 4021.
3x 150gpd membranes is about £120
I don't have a need to fill any faster as I produce into an ibc with a shut off valve so it works away overnight or whilst I'm out working.
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Thank you Chris. Thats interesting.
I have a 4040 membrane, a year old. It started out producing 07 now its 21.
I may have to try this myself. Just got to figure out what I could soak the membrane in overnight that would be big enough ( don't think the missus would be happy if I used the bath ;D ).
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Thank you Chris. Thats interesting.
I have a 4040 membrane, a year old. It started out producing 07 now its 21.
I may have to try this myself. Just got to figure out what I could soak the membrane in overnight that would be big enough ( don't think the missus would be happy if I used the bath ;D ).
I used a long plastic flower pot, get them in b&q for about £10. The one I used should easily fit a 40inch membrane.
I didn't want to over dilute the descaler so avoided using the bath.
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Wait......... if you can clean it with bleach, then why do we put a carbon filter in front that’s supposed to take out the bleach/chlorine from the water?
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Wait......... if you can clean it with bleach, then why do we put a carbon filter in front that’s supposed to take out the bleach/chlorine from the water?
" bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach "
I think there's probably a difference between cleaning with bleach to remove dirt and soaking the membrane in bleach overnight.
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Thank you Chris. Thats interesting.
I have a 4040 membrane, a year old. It started out producing 07 now its 21.
I may have to try this myself. Just got to figure out what I could soak the membrane in overnight that would be big enough ( don't think the missus would be happy if I used the bath ;D ).
I used a long plastic flower pot, get them in b&q for about £10. The one I used should easily fit a 40inch membrane.
I didn't want to over dilute the descaler so avoided using the bath.
Thank you Chris, have a B&Q near me so will look in to that ;)
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Wait......... if you can clean it with bleach, then why do we put a carbon filter in front that’s supposed to take out the bleach/chlorine from the water?
" bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach "
I think there's probably a difference between cleaning with bleach to remove dirt and soaking the membrane in bleach overnight.
If you clean the outside with bleach, then it will soak in to the middle - no?
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CIP Procedure
Chemical clean
https://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/sroinstall.pdf
During a chemical cleaning process, membranes are soaked with a solution of chlorine bleach, hydrochloric acid or hydrogen peroxide. First the solution soaks into the membranes for a number of minutes and after that a forward flush or backward flush is applied, causing the contaminants to be rinsed out.
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Nice one Chris, will give this a try soon as mine is creeping up 👍
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My RO has been creeping up the last month, from 12 to 22 and output dropping, so I was about to replace the membrane but decided to see if I could clean it instead and save myself some dollars. Turns out you can!
Removed membrane, bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach, then stuck the membrane in a long pot full of pure water and some HG washing machine descaler (whole bottle).
Left the membrane to soak overnight, reinserted back into housing, flushed for 30 mins and low and behold tds has dropped back to 12 and output is back to normal.
Not sure if this is a permanent fix or a short term remedy but if I get another 6 months or a year out of the membrane, then its definitely worth the £5 spend on the descaler for anyone who wants to try it!
Hi Chris,
Did the fix last?
Vin
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My RO has been creeping up the last month, from 12 to 22 and output dropping, so I was about to replace the membrane but decided to see if I could clean it instead and save myself some dollars. Turns out you can!
Removed membrane, bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach, then stuck the membrane in a long pot full of pure water and some HG washing machine descaler (whole bottle).
Left the membrane to soak overnight, reinserted back into housing, flushed for 30 mins and low and behold tds has dropped back to 12 and output is back to normal.
Not sure if this is a permanent fix or a short term remedy but if I get another 6 months or a year out of the membrane, then its definitely worth the £5 spend on the descaler for anyone who wants to try it!
Hi Chris,
Did the fix last?
Vin
I got another 6 months out of the membrane before it started creeping up again.
Decided to replace at that point rather then trying to clean again.
I replaced with this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4040-RO-Membrane-for-4-x-40-Reverse-Osmosis-Membrane-Housings-/263437782685
Alot cheaper then axeon and its been brilliant so far, gets water down to same ppm as axeon and same production as well.
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Very weird my RO it was reading 06-07 after RO a few weeks ago I didn’t and haven’t flushed it since I checked it Monday and it was reading 03 very strange.
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My RO has been creeping up the last month, from 12 to 22 and output dropping, so I was about to replace the membrane but decided to see if I could clean it instead and save myself some dollars. Turns out you can!
Removed membrane, bleached inside the housing, cleaned the outside of the membrane with bleach, then stuck the membrane in a long pot full of pure water and some HG washing machine descaler (whole bottle).
Left the membrane to soak overnight, reinserted back into housing, flushed for 30 mins and low and behold tds has dropped back to 12 and output is back to normal.
Not sure if this is a permanent fix or a short term remedy but if I get another 6 months or a year out of the membrane, then its definitely worth the £5 spend on the descaler for anyone who wants to try it!
Hi Chris,
Did the fix last?
Vin
I got another 6 months out of the membrane before it started creeping up again.
Decided to replace at that point rather then trying to clean again.
I replaced with this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4040-RO-Membrane-for-4-x-40-Reverse-Osmosis-Membrane-Housings-/263437782685
Alot cheaper then axeon and its been brilliant so far, gets water down to same ppm as axeon and same production as well.
Thanks.
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Yes Vin it works - best to leave it in for a complete weekend if you can
I do this treatment twice before junking the membraine - recently I am getting around 8 months out of a membraine before it starts rising - when it gets to 016 I descale it it drops back to 006 - and lasts for about 2 months - so effectively I add 50% to the service life
Darran
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Whats the tap tds smudger
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I have an Axeon 4040 RO membrane fitted two years ago and it's still reading 002, amazed. Previous one lasted a year (different make). Change the filters regularly and backwash daily.
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My tds is anywhere from 320 to 380 - I make between 2000 and 3000 litres of pure per day
Darran
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Do you guys flush your systems regularly?
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Do you guys flush your systems regularly?
I flush maybe once a month for 10 mins. My last membrane lasted around 5 years doing this with an input TDS of 350.
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I flush mine every blue moon producing water at 003 6-7 years old this membrane.
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
What ever , it’s false economy just replace them , ones on hear with multiple vans and there they are trying to clean membranes , sad !,,,,,,,,,
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
What ever , it’s false economy just replace them , ones on hear with multiple vans and there they are trying to clean membranes , sad !,,,,,,,,,
Spending £5 to save £100s isn't really false economy is it...
Perhaps you should change your name to splash the cash ;D
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
What ever , it’s false economy just replace them , ones on hear with multiple vans and there they are trying to clean membranes , sad !,,,,,,,,,
Spending £5 to save £100s isn't really false economy is it...
Perhaps you should change your name to splash the cash ;D
Depending ware you are in the country a 4040 membrane should last 3-10 years mine are 6 years old and still fine , but if a company with multiple vans cannot afford a couple of membranes every 3+ years or so then there is something drastically wrong , all the time you spend faffing about removing it , cleaning it replacing it all costs , just replace it and you know it won’t have to be touched again fir a number of years , that’s my take on it , I don't believe in waiting money but neither am I a skinflint , to me it’s just common sense tk replace it , you wouldn’t dream of cleaning an oil filter ,or air filter unless it’s specifically designed tk be cleaned would you , membranes are not designed to be cleaned they are a consumable item once knackered they need replacing end off .
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
What ever , it’s false economy just replace them , ones on hear with multiple vans and there they are trying to clean membranes , sad !,,,,,,,,,
Spending £5 to save £100s isn't really false economy is it...
Perhaps you should change your name to splash the cash ;D
Depending ware you are in the country a 4040 membrane should last 3-10 years mine are 6 years old and still fine , but if a company with multiple vans cannot afford a couple of membranes every 3+ years or so then there is something drastically wrong , all the time you spend faffing about removing it , cleaning it replacing it all costs , just replace it and you know it won’t have to be touched again fir a number of years , that’s my take on it , I don't believe in waiting money but neither am I a skinflint , to me it’s just common sense tk replace it , you wouldn’t dream of cleaning an oil filter ,or air filter unless it’s specifically designed tk be cleaned would you , membranes are not designed to be cleaned they are a consumable item once knackered they need replacing end off .
How's about you spending a few quid and buying a spell checker for your computer? The amount of time I waste trying to decipher what you're saying.... I should be charging you 😃
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Order a new 1 it comes the next day out in job done forget for another so many years,it’s like replacing sections on a pole if most sections are done buy a new pole when you earn a massive 200 a day like me it’s no problem 🤣🤣🤣🤣🦠🦠🦠🦠🦠🦠🦠
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This post makes me laugh most on hear claim they are earning £400-600 per day but they cannot afford it replace membranes that cost less than a days wages , just buy new what a bunch of skinflints 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
Isn't it just you and NWH that claim you earn that sort of money?
I have never stated what we earn on hear , Ime just quoting what the majority say
Well unfortunately you are wrong, i would say the majority of people on here earn something in the region of 200,000 penny's a day and choose to look after those pennies where they can.
What ever , it’s false economy just replace them , ones on hear with multiple vans and there they are trying to clean membranes , sad !,,,,,,,,,
Spending £5 to save £100s isn't really false economy is it...
Perhaps you should change your name to splash the cash ;D
Depending ware you are in the country a 4040 membrane should last 3-10 years mine are 6 years old and still fine , but if a company with multiple vans cannot afford a couple of membranes every 3+ years or so then there is something drastically wrong , all the time you spend faffing about removing it , cleaning it replacing it all costs , just replace it and you know it won’t have to be touched again fir a number of years , that’s my take on it , I don't believe in waiting money but neither am I a skinflint , to me it’s just common sense tk replace it , you wouldn’t dream of cleaning an oil filter ,or air filter unless it’s specifically designed tk be cleaned would you , membranes are not designed to be cleaned they are a consumable item once knackered they need replacing end off .
We get about 6-9 months out of a membrane. I’m not great at replacing prefilters though. From new our water goes from 280 to 4. I change at about 25. Really I should change earlier because we rip through resin once were over About 15.
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We get about 6-9 months out of a membrane. I’m not great at replacing prefilters though. From new our water goes from 280 to 4. I change at about 25. Really I should change earlier because we rip through resin once were over About 15.
Which membrane’s do you use? Is that with a a booster pump too?
I’ve a cheap Chinese membrane and can just about get it to single figures, wondering whether a higher quality membrane would be worth it.
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you need to check the specs of the membrane - some of the cheaper ones state 95% rejection rate where the axion and others are 98 or 99%
this is a big difference when your aiming for 000 TDS
Darran
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you need to check the specs of the membrane - some of the cheaper ones state 95% rejection rate where the axion and others are 98 or 99%
this is a big difference when your aiming for 000 TDS
Darran
I bought the membrane as a stop-gap after a pure-water supplier I had been using put their prices up. I have been getting 96% rejection at 50/50ish.
I was interested if the higher quality membranes really achieve the higher rejection rate or if they usually need a booster to get them.
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a membrane should work better with a booster pump - when I used a cheapie I could only achieve .013 better specs give me 006 this from an average hard water area of 370
Darran
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We get about 6-9 months out of a membrane. I’m not great at replacing prefilters though. From new our water goes from 280 to 4. I change at about 25. Really I should change earlier because we rip through resin once were over About 15.
Which membrane’s do you use? Is that with a a booster pump too?
I’ve a cheap Chinese membrane and can just about get it to single figures, wondering whether a higher quality membrane would be worth it.
I always buy from Gaps. Axeon or comparable if the Axeon is out of stock. To be honest I’ve only had one that’s been horrendous and according to Gaps (bought elsewhere) it wasn’t appropriate.
We use a booster pump. To be truthful I think I’m cheap in this and ought to look at a higher tec system with auto flush.
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I have been mulling over this myself - as the amount produced per day is quite high and with out hard water the membrane takes a pounding - trouble is its a right pain to get some one who knows about these things to come all the way out here ( Norfolk )
Darran
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a membrane should work better with a booster pump - when I used a cheapie I could only achieve .013 better specs give me 006 this from an average hard water area of 370
Darran
I would ideally like to avoid a booster pump if I can, just to keep things simple. I was interested to know if the 98/99% is commonly achievable or if that was an "optimum under perfect conditions" number.
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I would say they all give the best rejection rate under the optimum conditions - pressure/water temp/etc...
Darran
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If you use a water softener it should significantly increase life of membrane (in hard water ares).
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That's true - but they seem complicated having to regenerate etc....
Darran
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I just have one plumbed in to my system (the type you would fit to your house). It automatically regenerates. I just tip in a new bag of salt tablets every 2 or 3 months. You would get through more salt, I am a sole trader.
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That's true - but they seem complicated having to regenerate etc....
Darran
I believe they regenerate automatically if it’s high end. I was looking at a GAPS auto RO system that was around £4K but then I think well I’m managing ok now so why spend it? Requires a water softener though. If I’m honest my setup is just cheap and dirty and slightly embarrassing in the context of the scale now. Works though.
https://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/Aqualine-Alfa-240-RO--250l-hr.html
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I got another 6 months out of the membrane before it started creeping up again.
Decided to replace at that point rather then trying to clean again.
I replaced with this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4040-RO-Membrane-for-4-x-40-Reverse-Osmosis-Membrane-Housings-/263437782685
Alot cheaper then axeon and its been brilliant so far, gets water down to same ppm as axeon and same production as well.
Thank you!
The old membrane seemed OK when I opened up the housing but green gunk flowed out when I descaled it so I guess it was bio contamination. Normally they are slimy on the outside of the membrane but this one wasn't.
Bleached out the whole system, left the bleach in for three days, and meanwhile took a punt and ordered one of the membranes you linked.
Been running for an hour now and it's 307 in, 1 out. (!)
Happy camper here. Obviously depends how long it lasts but pretty content at the moment.
Thanks again.
Vin
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Thought I'd follow up.
Still going strong. The TDS 001 lasted a couple of days (until the carbon particles settle down in my input filter) then it goes up a bit. Output now is either 3 or 4 ppm.
Very happy with this cheap membrane.
Vin
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I think there’s more to membrane life and efficiency than I’ll ever understand. I have a Hydronautics one at the moment that’s been in 6 months and producing at 1ppm. I’ve changed the predictors once and we produce 2,500-3,000 litres a day. Input is 300ppm. I’ve never had a membrane last more than 8 months before and with lower output. Nothing has changed. Same tap, same pump.