Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jay moley on September 20, 2019, 08:09:01 pm
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
You pay them £100 each so £200 a day and turnover is £350
So £150 a day profit
By the time you add in holiday, nat ins, running costs etc surely the profit must be even less?
I'd say that was quite poor margins.
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
You pay them £100 each so £200 a day and turnover is £350
So £150 a day profit
By the time you add in holiday, nat ins, running costs etc surely the profit must be even less?
I'd say that was quite poor margins.
thats not profit - thats what's left BEFORE allowing for their holiday, insurance, pension, van costs etc... way to little
£275 to £325 is aimed for 1 man 1 van and £550 for a 2 man team ( windows only ) more if its s/f/g - cladding work etc..
Darran
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
You pay them £100 each so £200 a day and turnover is £350
So £150 a day profit
By the time you add in holiday, nat ins, running costs etc surely the profit must be even less?
I'd say that was quite poor margins.
thats not profit - thats what's left BEFORE allowing for their holiday, insurance, pension, van costs etc... way to little
£275 to £325 is aimed for 1 man 1 van and £550 for a 2 man team ( windows only ) more if its s/f/g - cladding work etc..
Darran
To clarify they are self employed and yes they have their own work.
Is £550 an 8 hour day?
What's your average price per house?
Average amount of jobs/houses a day?
Thanks
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
You pay them £100 each so £200 a day and turnover is £350
So £150 a day profit
By the time you add in holiday, nat ins, running costs etc surely the profit must be even less?
I'd say that was quite poor margins.
What numbers do you do?
-
in answer to your question I don't think PAYE can be sole based on %% things like minimum wage come into play
However you can run a bonus system - for example the guys have £300 a quarter bonus - however work must be completed in a timely manner ( ie.. turnover must average at least XX over each month ) - no complaints - no sick - good driving practise and few other bits
for each infringement they loose 5% of the bonus - if they get a repeat infringement in a period they loose 10% of the bonus
this helps keep the work rate high and the complaints very, very low - and no sick either ;D
Darran
-
as self employed its a different kettle of fish - so a % is fine - they can take as long or as little time as they want
7.5 hour day
varies - some days over 30 other days 12 - depends on the round and the size of the house - single man figures
Darran
-
I don't like 2 man 1 van - our rounds don't suit that work very well
typical 2 man day would be 35 to 45 properties
Darran
-
I don't like 2 man 1 van - our rounds don't suit that work very well
typical 2 man day would be 35 to 45 properties
Darran
I've thought about going to 1 man 1 van.
I'm guessing based on your figures my employees are just not working hard enough. It's not as if the work I give them is too far away, driving time between job.
Any other reasons I'm missing as to why the turnover is low?
Our work is well priced so can't be that.
-
I would never say not working hard enough - what is well priced for some is poor for others
My experience has found that 2 men never double the work of a single man unless its a commercial job and no moving - as all those stop starts (non productive times) are in effect twice the time of a single man
2 men unless really in tune rarely work efficiently there always is overlap so again non productive time
lunch breaks tend to drift as they natter the hour away....
if your pricing the work you will know how long a job takes from there set them a daily target of work say £400 for 7 hours
- you say todays rate is £90 for reaching this target however get £500 of work done and there is an additional £40 bonus
so you are now paying a max £260 and getting £500
hopefully they start to work more efficiently, no fAg breaks, shorter lunch breaks and so on....
Darran
-
I would never say not working hard enough - what is well priced for some is poor for others
My experience has found that 2 men never double the work of a single man unless its a commercial job and no moving - as all those stop starts (non productive times) are in effect twice the time of a single man
2 men unless really in tune rarely work efficiently there always is overlap so again non productive time
lunch breaks tend to drift as they natter the hour away....
if your pricing the work you will know how long a job takes from there set them a daily target of work say £400 for 7 hours
- you say todays rate is £90 for reaching this target however get £500 of work done and there is an additional £40 bonus
so you are now paying a max £260 and getting £500
hopefully they start to work more efficiently, no fAg breaks, shorter lunch breaks and so on....
Darran
Not sure how they would respond to me dropping their money to £90.
But you're saying £130 each if they hit £500?
-
yes - but your £100 IMO is too high a start point - certainly for just £350 - even though they are self employed
really it needed to be a higher figure - £400 a day
if you can't be tough and set out new rules then you need to juggle the figures somehow to better suit you
without knowing what you charge and how long it takes to do a house which will give you an hourly turnover rate I can't say weather they are reaching their potential or not
why do you hit in a day on your own, or with a second man ?
Darran
-
yes - but your £100 IMO is too high a start point - certainly for just £350 - even though they are self employed
really it needed to be a higher figure - £400 a day
if you can't be tough and set out new rules then you need to juggle the figures somehow to better suit you
without knowing what you charge and how long it takes to do a house which will give you an hourly turnover rate I can't say weather they are reaching their potential or not
why do you hit in a day on your own, or with a second man ?
Darran
A lot of these problems have arisen as I've been out of work for 6 years and my Dad, whose massively busy with is own non window cleaning work, took over the business.
He had to get people in to cover the work as I was out of the game and unable to run it.
So I don't have figures on what one man can do.
The other worry I have is that I rely on these guys. If they leave because I change the pay structure I'm in trouble,
That said changes need to be made.
If I kept them on £100 a day what would you incentivise them on?
-
I think you need to work out the total running cost per day for a 2 man van
even if they are self employed, im assuming they are using your van, fuel, ins, equipment etc ?
so whats the true cost per day ? 200 in wages plus what else ?
-
Okay you are at a base where you rely on them and pay them £100 a day and get £350 back. That will give you something if the £350 is without fail and the running costs are low in fuel, wear and tear etc.
If you don't want to rock the boat I would tell them that costs have risen (the van, equipment and poles needs something put by for replacement - stuff they can understand) and you need them to do (say) £380 a day but that you are putting in a bonus where if they hit an average of £380 every day then at the end of the calandar month they get a bonus of (say at £380 x 20) £100 each for the month.
Then if they do it for a quarter they get a further £100 each for the quarter.
I would also put up prices and gradually increase the gap between what they get and what they make for you so that in say two years they are being paid £105 each a day and getting better bonuses but making (say) £425.
-
yes - but your £100 IMO is too high a start point - certainly for just £350 - even though they are self employed
really it needed to be a higher figure - £400 a day
if you can't be tough and set out new rules then you need to juggle the figures somehow to better suit you
without knowing what you charge and how long it takes to do a house which will give you an hourly turnover rate I can't say weather they are reaching their potential or not
why do you hit in a day on your own, or with a second man ?
Darran
Strange reply, remember its the self employed guys who are doing all the work and he's getting £150 a day for nothing more than renting them the custom, if I where him I wouldnt rock the boat.
-
maybe, maybe not - only going on what info we have - if they are in their own vans with own equipment and water then maybe, its worth it - perhaps wrongly I assumed the van and water was the OP's
but generally 350 for 2 men is IMO a poor return
Darran
-
This is how I see it, 350 a day if ligit is hitting 84k so take your vat into account and your ehh not making much.
-
You need to earn back double what you are paying out to make it worth while remembering you are not going to get paid straight away from every job that is done,they will want paying at the end of the week-month regardless.
At the end of the month when you’ve paid out 2grand in wages you might still be waiting for over 2 grand in outstanding payments,as the months tick by you’ll get some back but still be owed the above on average,to make it work you need cash in the bank from some source whether it be an overdraft etc to make it run smoothly.
The time you’re Tax bill arrives if you are not taking enough for yourself and van etc it won’t seem worth it.
-
Sorry I meant 4 k in wages and outstanding payments.
-
Even if they are self-employed £150 is a low return for 2 people. If you're working occasionally too you will top VAT £350 net of VAT is £291 take away £200 wages potentially this could leave you with only £91 ok say £100 with claim backs.
You'll have your van insurance you're running costs van repairs liability and employers insurance..and alot more.
I don't think given the responsibility and commitment required from yourself makes this financially viable. Not much profit will be left over You would be far better off doing 250-£300 per day by yourself if this is possible in your area?. And if you can do that figure that should really be the minimum amount per man so you should change to one man per van ideally.
Then you will be left with 150-200 per man with less turnover keeping you under VAT eventually getting the second van then bringing in £500-£600 gross of vat leaving you between £417-£500 net so between £217-£317 profit bit more after claim backs.
It's all about profit in the long term and consistency and although you may not be paying any VAT now you could soon and when that happens you really do need to be making more profit . Try single-user targets good Financial Planning now will make your life a lot easier in the future.
-
Thanks for all the replies.
Bit depressed really.
Be good to start again with new employees on different wage structures and targets. Not really feasible though. Will look to increase the daily target and perhaps incentivise them.
-
I had the same issue about 4 years ago.
Me and an employee doing about £350-£400 a day from one van.
Here is what I did:
1. One man per van, with a 650L tank.
2. Converted all six weekly to twelve weekly at 50% more for 12 weekly, while at the same time canvassing regularly. Can now get a new customer signed up DD for every 150mins of canvassing, but it took a while to get there.
3. Got all new customers to pay by DD
4. Converted all old customers to DD
5. Used Go Cardless Pro for the above
6. Focused on doing quality work, with regular checks on work quality and logged complaints, and how many recleans we needed to do.
7. Timed all work, and dropped / gave price rises to all unprofitable work.
Now we are doing around £350 to £400 per day, each van.
With the team, they should be on minimum wage, and get 30% of the takings. They should get 'strikes' for stuff you don't want to see, like calling in sick. or leaving the yard late. The 'strikes' come off the bonus.
Explain to them that they can't come back before 5 unless the sheet is completed.
They get a further bonus for meeting monthly targets.
Yes, it is gonna rock the boat, Yes, they may / may not like it, but you need to get them onside and see the bigger rewards as being a part of it. Hire slowly, fire quickly.
The path ahead is not easy, and it takes time. However, if you've got this far, you WILL be able to take it to the next level.
Good luck, where are you based?
-
I had the same issue about 4 years ago.
Me and an employee doing about £350-£400 a day from one van.
Here is what I did:
1. One man per van, with a 650L tank.
2. Converted all six weekly to twelve weekly at 50% more for 12 weekly, while at the same time canvassing regularly. Can now get a new customer signed up DD for every 150mins of canvassing, but it took a while to get there.
3. Got all new customers to pay by DD
4. Converted all old customers to DD
5. Used Go Cardless Pro for the above
6. Focused on doing quality work, with regular checks on work quality and logged complaints, and how many recleans we needed to do.
7. Timed all work, and dropped / gave price rises to all unprofitable work.
Now we are doing around £350 to £400 per day, each van.
With the team, they should be on minimum wage, and get 30% of the takings. They should get 'strikes' for stuff you don't want to see, like calling in sick. or leaving the yard late. The 'strikes' come off the bonus.
Explain to them that they can't come back before 5 unless the sheet is completed.
They get a further bonus for meeting monthly targets.
Yes, it is gonna rock the boat, Yes, they may / may not like it, but you need to get them onside and see the bigger rewards as being a part of it. Hire slowly, fire quickly.
The path ahead is not easy, and it takes time. However, if you've got this far, you WILL be able to take it to the next level.
Good luck, where are you based?
Some good stuff there, thanks.
Went out yesterday, as I'm just getting back to work with 2 of us and we did £437. This included working in the rain for 1 hour. I know they are not working in the rain, so that explains a bit of the low takings. Will tackle this as no excuse to not work in the rain.
Based in Surrey. I think my pricing is ok. Average job £23.
-
I don't think its wise to specify 5pm after all it will be dark at 3.30 soon........
your average means nothing @ £23 without an average time to go with it
for example you average £23 per ouse but only clean 1.5 hours an hour = £34.50 turnover = poor
where as some one might only average £15 per house but they on average do 4 p/h = £60 = good
hope this helps, some good bits from Mr James as well
Darran
-
I had the same issue about 4 years ago.
Me and an employee doing about £350-£400 a day from one van.
Here is what I did:
1. One man per van, with a 650L tank.
2. Converted all six weekly to twelve weekly at 50% more for 12 weekly, while at the same time canvassing regularly. Can now get a new customer signed up DD for every 150mins of canvassing, but it took a while to get there.
3. Got all new customers to pay by DD
4. Converted all old customers to DD
5. Used Go Cardless Pro for the above
6. Focused on doing quality work, with regular checks on work quality and logged complaints, and how many recleans we needed to do.
7. Timed all work, and dropped / gave price rises to all unprofitable work.
Now we are doing around £350 to £400 per day, each van.
With the team, they should be on minimum wage, and get 30% of the takings. They should get 'strikes' for stuff you don't want to see, like calling in sick. or leaving the yard late. The 'strikes' come off the bonus.
Explain to them that they can't come back before 5 unless the sheet is completed.
They get a further bonus for meeting monthly targets.
Yes, it is gonna rock the boat, Yes, they may / may not like it, but you need to get them onside and see the bigger rewards as being a part of it. Hire slowly, fire quickly.
The path ahead is not easy, and it takes time. However, if you've got this far, you WILL be able to take it to the next level.
Good luck, where are you based?
Couple of questions:
1) Why did you convert to 12 weekly cleaning?
2) How many underpriced jobs did you drop?
3) How many customers cancelled when you asked them to switch to DD?
4) How many vans and employees do you have?
-
I had the same issue about 4 years ago.
Me and an employee doing about £350-£400 a day from one van.
Here is what I did:
1. One man per van, with a 650L tank.
2. Converted all six weekly to twelve weekly at 50% more for 12 weekly, while at the same time canvassing regularly. Can now get a new customer signed up DD for every 150mins of canvassing, but it took a while to get there.
3. Got all new customers to pay by DD
4. Converted all old customers to DD
5. Used Go Cardless Pro for the above
6. Focused on doing quality work, with regular checks on work quality and logged complaints, and how many recleans we needed to do.
7. Timed all work, and dropped / gave price rises to all unprofitable work.
Now we are doing around £350 to £400 per day, each van.
With the team, they should be on minimum wage, and get 30% of the takings. They should get 'strikes' for stuff you don't want to see, like calling in sick. or leaving the yard late. The 'strikes' come off the bonus.
Explain to them that they can't come back before 5 unless the sheet is completed.
They get a further bonus for meeting monthly targets.
Yes, it is gonna rock the boat, Yes, they may / may not like it, but you need to get them onside and see the bigger rewards as being a part of it. Hire slowly, fire quickly.
The path ahead is not easy, and it takes time. However, if you've got this far, you WILL be able to take it to the next level.
Good luck, where are you based?
Some good stuff there, thanks.
Went out yesterday, as I'm just getting back to work with 2 of us and we did £437. This included working in the rain for 1 hour. I know they are not working in the rain, so that explains a bit of the low takings. Will tackle this as no excuse to not work in the rain.
Based in Surrey. I think my pricing is ok. Average job £23.
How are you only doing £400 2 man in Surrey with an average price of £23
Are they massive houses or really spread out?
When I was working 2 man we was doing 35 -40 houses a day.
Bearing in mind I'm up north with an average price of £10 or so a job with a similar turnover of 400 a day
Surely you can do 400 solo at £23 a job, that's less than 20 jobs a day. ???
-
when employing , do you supply footwear as part of the uniform?
-
I had the same issue about 4 years ago.
Me and an employee doing about £350-£400 a day from one van.
Here is what I did:
1. One man per van, with a 650L tank.
2. Converted all six weekly to twelve weekly at 50% more for 12 weekly, while at the same time canvassing regularly. Can now get a new customer signed up DD for every 150mins of canvassing, but it took a while to get there.
3. Got all new customers to pay by DD
4. Converted all old customers to DD
5. Used Go Cardless Pro for the above
6. Focused on doing quality work, with regular checks on work quality and logged complaints, and how many recleans we needed to do.
7. Timed all work, and dropped / gave price rises to all unprofitable work.
Now we are doing around £350 to £400 per day, each van.
With the team, they should be on minimum wage, and get 30% of the takings. They should get 'strikes' for stuff you don't want to see, like calling in sick. or leaving the yard late. The 'strikes' come off the bonus.
Explain to them that they can't come back before 5 unless the sheet is completed.
They get a further bonus for meeting monthly targets.
Yes, it is gonna rock the boat, Yes, they may / may not like it, but you need to get them onside and see the bigger rewards as being a part of it. Hire slowly, fire quickly.
The path ahead is not easy, and it takes time. However, if you've got this far, you WILL be able to take it to the next level.
Good luck, where are you based?
Oliver would you mind pointing out to everyone here that everything you have written in this post came directly from me. Thanks.
-
Oliver would you mind pointing out to everyone here that everything you have written in this post came directly from me. Thanks.
I knew it sounded familiar!
Lee, May I ask a question; most of my work (about 90%) is monthly. 8% 2 monthly, and the rest 6- weekly. All well priced to the point that I don’t think a price increase would be plausible.
What was the reason you decided on a 6weekly / 12 weekly schedule, and would you recommend switching to it?
Also, does your 5 pm rule apply even in winter when it’s dark at 4pm?
-
Lee's advise is good however I would advise against Olivers forcing customers to go to the longer frequency,
4 cleans per year is not enough, you will need a high amount of customers if you did that and they would all be like first cleans every time they are cleaned,
If you jack a £12 house up to £18 and then say we are only coming 4 times a year now instead of 8 and the customers wants a regular window clean they will more than likely cancel.
-
Yes, fair enough, not my ideas, sorry, should have mentioned your name.
What you have come up with Lee, is a genius way of getting window cleaners 'on task'.
I went to a talk on what motivates staff, and this is what the research shows
Money has an effect, but it is limited.
They are motivated by:
Autonomy
Mastery
Purpose
What motivates people is being able to do the work how they want (autonomy). The opportunity to get mastery at a skill, and purpose ie. doing something that is part of a greater whole (a bit like how a lot of millenials want to work for social enterprises.
More here, This video / Ted Talk has had over 8.5 million views;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y
-
Alright lads,
I currently pay my two employees £100 a day. I'm wondering whether it would be better to incentivise them. Anyone do it? If so how does it work? What percentage etc.
Also my current target turnover a day from one van is £350. This is domestic work with 2 workers on the van. Be interested to see people's views on whether this is about right or too little.
Cheers
Depends where you are in the country down here parts of the south coast you expect more for 2 men from 1 van,if you had the right work and they did on average 7-8 hours most days it would be more like 550-650 but like I say job type dependant.
This is not on normal domestic houses though it would be all detached 4 bed upwards with no customers looking at there watches on how long you are there,silly quick with the pole with 2 people 1 doing the back and a side and the other 1 doing a front and a side. I would say in a lot of cases that above figure is conservative too if they got a shift on,you’ll get people posting now saying impossible never happen can’t be done,but it’s done by many.
-
and there you have it Nigel,
we have no set formula on how to clean windows, nor do we know how compact a round is - we all work independently - what I consider to be fast maybe slow to others and vice versa. this will also translate into turnover p/h
Darran
-
Yes, agree, it is flawed logic to compare rounds, because you are not comparing like with like, they are all completely different.
I referred to Daniel Pink's video in my previous post,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y
which claims that to solve the puzzle of how to motivate team members, it is not JUST about what you pay them.
Other factors are at play, according to him,
Specifically, they want: autonomy (to a certain extent, to be able to do the work with a degree of autonomy), Mastery, (to be able to get really good at a specific skill), and purpose, to have a wider purpose than just earning cash
Any thoughts on what he's claiming in his video?
-
Yes, agree, it is flawed logic to compare rounds, because you are not comparing like with like, they are all completely different.
I referred to Daniel Pink's video in my previous post,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y
which claims that to solve the puzzle of how to motivate team members, it is not JUST about what you pay them.
Other factors are at play, according to him,
Specifically, they want: autonomy (to a certain extent, to be able to do the work with a degree of autonomy), Mastery, (to be able to get really good at a specific skill), and purpose, to have a wider purpose than just earning cash
Any thoughts on what he's claiming in his video?
Cant watch those babble videos, but as to your point, if a person has always wanted to do a certain type of work then being able to do, learn and master it will be a great motivator, but if its just a case of having to learn it to keep the job then the motivation goes back to being all about the cash.
-
Lee's advise is good however I would advise against Olivers forcing customers to go to the longer frequency,
4 cleans per year is not enough, you will need a high amount of customers if you did that and they would all be like first cleans every time they are cleaned,
If you jack a £12 house up to £18 and then say we are only coming 4 times a year now instead of 8 and the customers wants a regular window clean they will more than likely cancel.
I find 12wk cleans not much worse than 6wk ???
-
Lee's advise is good however I would advise against Olivers forcing customers to go to the longer frequency,
4 cleans per year is not enough, you will need a high amount of customers if you did that and they would all be like first cleans every time they are cleaned,
If you jack a £12 house up to £18 and then say we are only coming 4 times a year now instead of 8 and the customers wants a regular window clean they will more than likely cancel.
I find 12wk cleans not much worse than 6wk ???
Same here, I also find that people looking for longer frequencies tend to do it to save money and then jump ship as soon as somebody cheaper comes along.
-
The above are fair points.
On reflection I over-reacted to my situation in 2016 (van doing low daily billing) by moving ALL the work to 12 weekly.
A combination of six and12 weekly means good daily billing amounts if the work is priced well, and you don’t need so many jobs to build a round.
However, if you are a one man band who wants to stay that way and not increase the size of the business, then moving your work slowly to 12 weekly over time is one way of increasing profit margin with no increase in expenses.
-
As far as employees is concerned more often than not it’s about the money and it’s got to be about the money if you want to keep them for any length of time,I would say pay them more than they will get doing other unskilled jobs or labouring or shop work etc they are more likely to stick at it if they think they’ll get similar work in the warm especially this time of the year.
It’s not all about the money but in a lot of cases it is people need a certain amount to get by,I would rather pay a bit more so they were happier than run em into the ground for peanuts these days it’s only a case of doing a few more jobs a week and they can be done while you’re sitting in the van anyway.
-
Yes, agree, it is flawed logic to compare rounds, because you are not comparing like with like, they are all completely different.
I referred to Daniel Pink's video in my previous post,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y
which claims that to solve the puzzle of how to motivate team members, it is not JUST about what you pay them.
Other factors are at play, according to him,
Specifically, they want: autonomy (to a certain extent, to be able to do the work with a degree of autonomy), Mastery, (to be able to get really good at a specific skill), and purpose, to have a wider purpose than just earning cash
Any thoughts on what he's claiming in his video?
Hi Oliver
You might want to read...
Upside Down Management - John Timpson
The Richer Way - Julian Richer
Nuts! - Kevin & Jackie Freiberg
All three focus on putting the employee first, customer second, profit third , they promote employing on personality, looking after the good and getting rid of the bad.
HTH
John
-
I would say pay them more than they will get doing other unskilled jobs or labouring or shop work etc they are more likely to stick at it if they think they’ll get similar work in the warm especially this time of the year.
It’s not all about the money but in a lot of cases it is people need a certain amount to get by,
i think this hits the nail on the head. everyone has a minimun amount of money they need to get by. this is different for everyone. so long as they are getting this amount they will stick at the job if it makes them feel good. feeling good can be feeling part of a team, and doing a job they feel they are good at. and of course feeling they are providing a service that people appreciate and they can feel proud of.
-
The trouble is it’s a different world today you speak to some people about money and they aren’t happy with anything,it’s been a long long time since I’ve spoken to people employed by trades-gardeners etc that have had a good word to say about there bosses.
I think you just have to pay people a decent wage for what they do or more than they’d get doing similar,I don’t think you can get away with it today like you do 10-20 years ago,cash in hand is not as doable as it once was