Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: S.W. Window Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 07:59:37 pm

Title: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: S.W. Window Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 07:59:37 pm
As title,
A guy I know started giving me a hand 2 months ago.  Today he says he might buy a van and have a go on his own.  He thinks I'll let him help me until he builds a round up.  I'm quite cross and think I should tell him to go now.  What's everybody's else think?
Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Smudger on September 16, 2019, 08:02:07 pm
gone - no if's,but's or maybe's

find a new guy and start training him up

Darran
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: britishwill on September 16, 2019, 08:07:17 pm
I have done this twice and all I can say is never again. Total nightmare. You will loss out and they will leave you in the proverbial once they feel they have used and abused you and have enough work to make the jump
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Windy Miller on September 16, 2019, 08:13:58 pm
I don't employ, never will as I'm happy but I can't imagine how soul destroying it is to put time and energy into helping someone out and for this to happen.
It's bad enough refusing certain pain in the backside gutter cleans and thinking whoever they get might get the windows as well never mind an employee turning into a local rival.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Don Kee on September 16, 2019, 08:16:17 pm
Giving you a hand (bit of beer money) or actually employing him?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: dazmond on September 16, 2019, 08:16:28 pm
i worked with a window cleaner back in 1992 for a year and then started up on my own...he knew for the last 4 months that i was gonna leave but he wouldnt get rid of me because i was one hell of a good worker.....when i finally started up he gave me a bit of work cheap and i continued to work with him  a few days a week until i had enough to go it alone......

he s still going strong now at 71 year of age..... ;)

i tended to not canvass the areas he worked but i did with some before selling it on years later when i got established in a better area..... ;D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: P @ F on September 16, 2019, 08:16:51 pm
See ya !
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Smudger on September 16, 2019, 08:19:46 pm
See Daz - had you done the moral and right thing and carried on working for him - he could have retired at 55 safe in the knowledge you were making him money for his retirement  ;D

Darran
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: S.W. Window Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 08:22:31 pm
No he's self employed . I know if I keep letting him  help me he will be asking loads of questions and why should I make it easy for him
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Smudger on September 16, 2019, 08:28:21 pm
No he's self employed . I know if I keep letting him  help me he will be asking loads of questions and why should I make it easy for him

I see.........
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Ooooooog on September 16, 2019, 08:32:11 pm
No he's self employed . I know if I keep letting him  help me he will be asking loads of questions and why should I make it easy for him

How can you moan about someone wanting to work for themselves, when they’re self employed!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Lee Pryor on September 16, 2019, 08:32:49 pm
Hmmm self employed. Worry more about that.

Do things properly and have a contract. Then he can't do it.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 16, 2019, 08:32:57 pm
Give him notice that your dropping him and get someone else lined up.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: SB Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 08:33:06 pm
No he's self employed . I know if I keep letting him  help me he will be asking loads of questions and why should I make it easy for him
Self employed?
If he is working for you he should be on the books , be careful as you could get stung if your not careful mate.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 16, 2019, 08:37:46 pm
Loads of folk are self-employed, no matter what line if work your in the self-employed worker or employee can start up whatever they want.
You might have a contract that states they can't touch your customers which is normal in sales but even though they all do it at big companies.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: S.W. Window Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 08:45:21 pm
Every day he works he gives me an invoice.  Checked it up with my account and he says it's all coccha
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Ooooooog on September 16, 2019, 08:48:21 pm
Does he have his own tools? Does he decide his hours? Is he responsible for the work?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: SB Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 08:58:36 pm
Does he have his own tools? Does he decide his hours? Is he responsible for the work?
I doubt it ;D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Richard iSparkle on September 16, 2019, 09:34:49 pm
get rid immediately

no question
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: nathankaye on September 16, 2019, 09:43:23 pm
I hope he doesnt know all your customers and prices!
Dump him, quickly!  Then let all your customers know so he cant go round either collecting the payments from your clean, or cleaning them a couple of quid cheaper.
Dont feel bad about it as you will still be teaching him a lesson  ;D     at the moment he feels that this work is easy enough for him to do so show him the door and let him learn;
1) not to bite the hand thats feeding him &
2) it aint easy for him to just break into without help.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: dazmond on September 16, 2019, 09:49:00 pm
See Daz - had you done the moral and right thing and carried on working for him - he could have retired at 55 safe in the knowledge you were making him money for his retirement  ;D

Darran

haha.....i think he knew within a few months i wasnt going to just work for him forever........i had more than 2 brain cells(unlike most of the other chaps he used to have working with him!) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: S.W. Window Cleaning on September 16, 2019, 09:54:12 pm
No he knows nothing about pricing etc.  Not even about poles or systems.  That's him gone now.  Let's see how he gets on especially coming into the winter  :)
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: P @ F on September 16, 2019, 10:27:23 pm
If you keep him all you are doing is providing the money to allow him to shaft you. , and he will , so cut his cash flow  ,  and he will be fooked  ;D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 16, 2019, 10:39:37 pm
What, in the space of two hours! You didn't take long to think about it.

He'll be on here soon anyway asking about people saying to get off their patch :)
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Don Kee on September 17, 2019, 07:44:09 am
Every day he works he gives me an invoice.  Checked it up with my account and he says it's all coccha

So he doesn’t work for you full time either?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on September 17, 2019, 07:58:24 am
His only mistake was being honest with you I guess.   He is doing nothing wrong as far as his working rights are.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Slacky on September 17, 2019, 08:00:31 am
No he's self employed . I know if I keep letting him  help me he will be asking loads of questions and why should I make it easy for him

Why not make it easy for him.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: andyM on September 17, 2019, 08:01:39 am
What, in the space of two hours! You didn't take long to think about it.

He'll be on here soon anyway asking about people saying to get off their patch :)

If you read his first post again it sounded to me that he had already decided to get rid.
But was posting to see if anyone else thought he was right....or not.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on September 17, 2019, 08:23:41 am
Just support him in whatever he does.  Keep the relationship good and he should repay the respect back to you.  A lot less chance of him stealing work if you remain buddies and avoid the chance of hate revenge.

He clearly respects you enough to be upfront about his intentions.

It will make you feel better too.   Not worth the stress.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 17, 2019, 12:39:50 pm
I've heard a lot of hgv drivers say they where going to do this and that but the reality is that if you're employed your in a safer position. The most some would do is jump ship and work for another company.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Stoots on September 17, 2019, 06:13:06 pm
Every day he works he gives me an invoice.  Checked it up with my account and he says it's all coccha

Your accountant is an idiot.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 17, 2019, 06:32:01 pm
I've looked on an accounting forum and these people are arguing just like on here :)
One will say you can do this and then someone shouts it down and so on... I was looking up having two business from the one address :P
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: SB Cleaning on September 17, 2019, 06:38:11 pm
Every day he works he gives me an invoice.  Checked it up with my account and he says it's all coccha

Your accountant is an idiot.
Have to agree

Any decent accountant wouldn't say it's ok.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Ooooooog on September 17, 2019, 07:08:47 pm
Just check the government website innit.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on September 17, 2019, 07:12:02 pm
From what I understand,  if he's using own equipment, its sub-contracting supplying an invoice to be paid.  If you supply the equipment its employing.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Ooooooog on September 17, 2019, 07:17:00 pm



Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
they can hire someone else to do the work
they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
they can work for more than one client
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: NWH on September 17, 2019, 08:09:31 pm
How many times have I said this it happens all the time if they have half a brain they will want to do it on there own,why wouldn’t they when they realise they are actually working a few hours if that for there days money that they are getting from you that they could be getting on there own.
That bit about do you mind if I work for you for a  while till I build it up sums people that go for a job as a window cleaner.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Stoots on September 17, 2019, 08:42:08 pm
You can't blame them.

If I was starting out what better way to learn and have some money coming in whilst building than to work for another cleaner.

Who wouldn't do it
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: NWH on September 17, 2019, 09:12:56 pm
If you employe anyone with ambition you won’t have em long,this job attracts the kind of person that thinks they can come in when they like have Fridays and Mondays off.
Every now and again you’ll get someone that you think would be ideal and the thing that this particular thread is about happens,they end up saying to you we had a good week  last week I thought I’d have a day off 😂.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 17, 2019, 09:18:40 pm
And after every Celtic games a national holiday ::)roll
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Slacky on September 18, 2019, 07:19:52 am
So, youre employing someone who’s using their inititiative and has ambition.

Good on ‘em. Keep us updated when you make the aspirational move of employing the next dropout.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Spruce on September 18, 2019, 07:31:25 am
As title,
A guy I know started giving me a hand 2 months ago.  Today he says he might buy a van and have a go on his own.  He thinks I'll let him help me until he builds a round up.  I'm quite cross and think I should tell him to go now.  What's everybody's else think?
Cheers
Steve

Why not start a form of franchise so you can satisfy his desire to work for himself but with your input? That way you both benefit.

If he is going off on his own then he needs the equipment to do the job anyway.

I also agree with other posters that you need a signed contract in place before you start anyone working with you detailing what you he can and can't do.
 
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Don Kee on September 18, 2019, 08:18:22 am


Why not start a form of franchise so you can satisfy his desire to work for himself but with your input? That way you both benefit.


 


Or pay him a proper wage, give him a proper job and maybe he’ll take the job more seriously.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: dazmond on September 18, 2019, 08:22:48 am
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: NWH on September 18, 2019, 10:08:16 am
As far as paying a so called proper wage goes I’ve done both paid low and paid good,makes no difference people are only now starting to see Windows cleaning as a “proper” business. 
Not that long ago it was all the family car with ladders on it’s only now staring to register with people you can make decent money and it being looked at as something that could be long term.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: NWH on September 18, 2019, 10:14:24 am
Not saying you can’t get the right person but paying a certain amount of money still won’t always work,this business is still not looked upon as a trade people still view it as something that I’ll do while I’m looking for another job.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Slacky on September 18, 2019, 12:02:04 pm
Not saying you can’t get the right person but paying a certain amount of money still won’t always work,this business is still not looked upon as a trade people still view it as something that I’ll do while I’m looking for another job.

What other job are you looking for then?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: NWH on September 18, 2019, 12:26:14 pm
Different case if you work for yourself and what you earn is yours isn’t it,like I say anyone with half a clue would think I’m going on my own.
No one will ever value you’re business or work during the day like you do or have done,it’s not a case of thinking I do X a day on my own if I get someone that will double it won’t happen.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Ooooooog on September 18, 2019, 03:58:27 pm
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

Great for the image of your company!😀
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Dry Clean on September 18, 2019, 07:17:36 pm
As title,
A guy I know started giving me a hand 2 months ago.  Today he says he might buy a van and have a go on his own.  He thinks I'll let him help me until he builds a round up.  I'm quite cross and think I should tell him to go now.  What's everybody's else think?
Cheers
Steve

Why not start a form of franchise so you can satisfy his desire to work for himself but with your input? That way you both benefit.

If he is going off on his own then he needs the equipment to do the job anyway.

I also agree with other posters that you need a signed contract in place before you start anyone working with you detailing what you he can and can't do.
 

There's no law to stop a person going it alone contract signed or not.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Soupy on September 18, 2019, 07:20:07 pm
As title,
A guy I know started giving me a hand 2 months ago.  Today he says he might buy a van and have a go on his own.  He thinks I'll let him help me until he builds a round up.  I'm quite cross and think I should tell him to go now.  What's everybody's else think?
Cheers
Steve

Why not start a form of franchise so you can satisfy his desire to work for himself but with your input? That way you both benefit.

If he is going off on his own then he needs the equipment to do the job anyway.

I also agree with other posters that you need a signed contract in place before you start anyone working with you detailing what you he can and can't do.
 

Don't listen to this contract rubbish, there's no law to stop a person going it alone contract signed or not.

A non compete clause does put people off but it's basically unenforceable.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Dry Clean on September 18, 2019, 07:30:25 pm
As title,
A guy I know started giving me a hand 2 months ago.  Today he says he might buy a van and have a go on his own.  He thinks I'll let him help me until he builds a round up.  I'm quite cross and think I should tell him to go now.  What's everybody's else think?
Cheers
Steve

Why not start a form of franchise so you can satisfy his desire to work for himself but with your input? That way you both benefit.

If he is going off on his own then he needs the equipment to do the job anyway.

I also agree with other posters that you need a signed contract in place before you start anyone working with you detailing what you he can and can't do.
 

Don't listen to this contract rubbish, there's no law to stop a person going it alone contract signed or not.

A non compete clause does put people off but it's basically unenforceable.

Exactly, its why big companies tend to give large pay outs to managers and so forth when they leave, if they compete or try and take any business with them they have to give the money back.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: LT carpet cleaning on September 19, 2019, 07:23:36 am
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: dazmond on September 19, 2019, 09:01:59 am
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".

not at all.......he gets them from the local council estate......theres loads of them round here.....cash in hand.........not legally of course..... ;D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Plankton on September 19, 2019, 11:57:27 am
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".
:D
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Slacky on September 19, 2019, 03:01:40 pm
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".

Why don't you apply?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: jay moley on September 20, 2019, 08:18:03 pm
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".

When can I start?
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: AuRavelling79 on September 22, 2019, 11:25:49 am
a guy i know only employs guys with learning difficulties,drink problems and generally who cant read and write properly.....fat chance of them leaving and going it alone that way...he also pays them as little as possible so they just have enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads......

I suspect you've made that up.

"Window cleaner required, must have a criminal record, do drugs and generally be thick".

The card in the local corner shop actually reads thus ...

Easy work for booze, fags and drugs.
Wait at Bus Stop every day at 8 O'clock.
Time off for Probation Officer visits and Signing on.
Title: Re: Trained a guy up, now he wants to start on his own
Post by: Johnny B on September 22, 2019, 06:42:19 pm
If it were someone working for me, I would let them go. I would tell them that I genuinely wish them all the very best, but I'm letting them go because I wouldn't want to stand in their way. All said very politely and with a smile.

John