Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mufcglen on September 06, 2019, 03:33:42 pm
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Snapped another section on my 16-17 month old xtreme today and more than happy with the life I’ve had out of it and the last few months replaced 1-2 sections with slx just to keep me plodding since fitting phantom clamps so I could gauge them for a few months and I can say the slx sections haven’t worn that new taped deep poles have away at all so today I’ve ordered a new xtreme and I already have a spare set of new phantom clamps but thinking as soon as I get my xtreme cutting the smart clamps off and fitting the phantom clamps to rapidly slow any wear down but feel abit confused buying a brand new £600 pole and cutting the clamps off😂😂🙈
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Should have just brought the phantom hi-mod and be done with it 👌🏻
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Should have just brought the phantom hi-mod and be done with it 👌🏻
I agree!
If you're going to cut off brand new clamp sets.....
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The xtremes actually cheaper and also the phantoms have a smaller thinner top section.
I must be the first mad man to buy a new pole and cut bits off it😂😂
Hopefully it will last even longer than the last one if the phantom clamps don’t wear half as bad as the smart clamps.
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what im doing at the moment is using my cobbled together xtreme 25(made up of 3 different versions!)just for the harder f/s/g jobs and pockets of awkward angle window work and using my SLX/xtreme hybrid for the rest.... ;)
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To be honest pal that’s what I’ve been doing last few months while I been testing out these phantom clamps using the xtreme pole with 2 replacement slx sections but after I snapped a 3rd today I thought I’ve had my money’s worth out of it and buying another slx section would have meant 3 out the 5 sections are slx I may have just gotten an new slx😂
Been a great pole and I have my slx39 for the few bigger windows I have, that’s just a wobbly brick though but absolutely solid😁
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Crackers! Sounds like the Xtreme is not for you. Buy an SLX and leave the clamps alone!
Why Dazmond who earns £80 an hour is cobbling together bits of poles beats me!
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Why’s it not for me pal, I’ve had this pole since March 2018 replacing a couple of sections along the way mainly after the 12-13 month mark, I think for an extreme that’s being used everyday earning good money that’s good going and I genuinely strip and retape monthly but clean it weekly so don’t abuse it.
I’m happy with how long it’s lasted with how much I’ve earnt to previous years using slx poles and my body feeling much less tired and a dicky shoulder injury gone within months of using it so definitely money well spent, my only issue would be the clamps though and how rough they get internally over time rubbing on the pole sections, I’d love gardiner to have something similar to the rubber phantom inserts that are really soft so barely wear the pole section, sort that out and they’ll have the best pole on the market for sure and like I said earlier I don’t like the phantom poles top section that’s way too thin for my liking and I’ve heard from a few users they’re first to snap.
Will be a good proper test now if I fit these clamps to this new pole and do a 12 month test for wear.
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Why’s it not for me pal, I’ve had this pole since March 2018 replacing a couple of sections along the way mainly after the 12-13 month mark, I think for an extreme that’s being used everyday earning good money that’s good going and I genuinely strip and retape monthly but clean it weekly so don’t abuse it.
I’m happy with how long it’s lasted with his much I’ve aren’t to previous years using slx poles and my body feeling much less tired and a dicky shoulder injury gone within months of using it so definitely money well spent, my only issue would be the clamps though and how rough they get internally over time rubbing on the pole sections, I’d love gardiner to have something similar to the rubber phantom inserts that are really soft so barely wear the pole section, sort that out and they’ll have the best pole on the market for sure aslike I said earlier I don’t like the phantom poles top section that’s way too thin for my liking and I’ve heard from a few users they’re first to snap.
We have every major pole on the market on tough long term test - and based on the results we are getting, we are currently still very happy with the way our clamps and poles perform and last, so no plans to change to rubber inserts.
Obviously different poles and systems can better suit different users so opinions can vary :)
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Did you have some similar clamps lined up a while ago Alex with that cner company from China?
I seen a post on here or Facebook with someone saying you refused them as they had the cner logo on them.
Hand on heart from my experience though I can definately say the phantom clamps wear less on the pole section for sure, the actual clamp lever system I do prefer the gardiner clamp with the little shins and springs and they feel slightly better too in use but that soft rubber insert is a game changer for wcw.
I’ve always been one of those window cleaners who take something from here and something from there to make in my opinion the best of everything.
Are the phantom clamps patented and you can’t copy the idea, I’d love to see something new from gardiner along this idea, trust me it’s not a gimmick as I first thought when they came out!!!
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Crackers! Sounds like the Xtreme is not for you. Buy an SLX and leave the clamps alone!
Why Dazmond who earns £80 an hour is cobbling together bits of poles beats me!
a few months ago i decided to revisit my pole "graveyard"....... ;D......ive managed to make 3 25ft poles out of different sections from various xtremes and SLXs that i had lying around rather than just buying another pole.......
also i was a bit miffed to snap 2 sections in quick succession on an xtreme 25 (that was less than 12 months old at the time)......
plenty of life left out of these few poles before i buy another one.....
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I am a long term Gardiner pole owner. Owned the first carbon ones with the metal bike seat post clamps. I have had the super lite modular. Have had all the xtreme versions 1,2,3 The poles were a game changer. As with all trades other competitors have caught up.
I currently use a 47ft xtreme version 3 . This is my second one of this version. I seem to get about 2 years out of one. I love the poles weight and ease of use. But for the price I would like to see a bit longer longevity. I am off to the show tmrw to have a good look at the phantom high modulus.
Maybe I will convert🤔
Tris
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I am a long term Gardiner pole owner. Owned the first carbon ones with the metal bike seat post clamps. I have had the super lite modular. Have had all the xtreme versions 1,2,3 The poles were a game changer. As with all trades other competitors have caught up.
I currently use a 47ft xtreme version 3 . This is my second one of this version. I seem to get about 2 years out of one. I love the poles weight and ease of use. But for the price I would like to see a bit longer longevity. I am off to the show tmrw to have a good look at the phantom high modulus.
Maybe I will convert🤔
Tris
i have an xtreme 47 with the old style clamps that i bought in the sale over 5 years ago now and its still in great condition(but mine only gets used around 10 times a month)....
do you use your 47 footers a lot?
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Did you have some similar clamps lined up a while ago Alex with that cner company from China?
I seen a post on here or Facebook with someone saying you refused them as they had the cner logo on them.
Hand on heart from my experience though I can definately say the phantom clamps wear less on the pole section for sure, the actual clamp lever system I do prefer the gardiner clamp with the little shins and springs and they feel slightly better too in use but that soft rubber insert is a game changer for wcw.
I’ve always been one of those window cleaners who take something from here and something from there to make in my opinion the best of everything.
Are the phantom clamps patented and you can’t copy the idea, I’d love to see something new from gardiner along this idea, trust me it’s not a gimmick as I first thought when they came out!!!
From my experience, a lot of what you read on Facebook about our firm has to be discounted as not accurate ;D
We did have some communication with CNER a while back - but this was only when enforcing our Clamp Patent with them and other associated companies so that our Smart Clamp Patents were no longer being infringed - hence a rapid redesign of several pole companies’ clamps soon after release.
Whilst they send us many manufacturing inquiries, we make our clamps and poles with our own partner factories so do not need any general manufacturing assistance. We have never used CNER to manufacture any products and have never pursued any manufacturing options or inquiries with them - quite the opposite. Someone did infiltrate our factory and take photos to try and pass themselves off as our 'manufacturer' a while back - Since then no visitors are permitted into our factory.
Whilst some aspects of the Phantom soft insert construction have had a Patent applied for the overall concept is in use with several other clamp designs around the world so not sure whether this Patent will actually be granted or not. We have tested all of the clamps designs from around the world that use soft inserts and the results have been interesting for us.
You're not the only that likes these inserts though and as it is a fairly new concept it will be interesting to see how they all perform in the market long term. Anyway it is great for the window cleaner that there are so many options available these days.
It would have been interesting when you fitted brand new clamps to an older Xtreme how you would have found it if you had fitted brand new Smart Clamp assemblies. Fitting completely new clamps will always refresh the whole feel of a pole - regardless of the clamp type fitted - unless the pole sections have completely had it of course!
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I am a long term Gardiner pole owner. Owned the first carbon ones with the metal bike seat post clamps. I have had the super lite modular. Have had all the xtreme versions 1,2,3 The poles were a game changer. As with all trades other competitors have caught up.
I currently use a 47ft xtreme version 3 . This is my second one of this version. I seem to get about 2 years out of one. I love the poles weight and ease of use. But for the price I would like to see a bit longer longevity. I am off to the show tmrw to have a good look at the phantom high modulus.
Maybe I will convert🤔
Tris
From what I been told by users of both hi mod poles pal is same opinion as me regarding clamps but gardiner poles last longer and stronger!
Personally I think £600ish for a pole to use for say for example 12 months min and how much you earn surely its money well spent, I would say after using an xtreme last year my daily work rate went up around £30-£50 a day just because my dicky shoulder got better and better and I wasn’t as worn out using a lighter pole through the day, now add that up over a week, over a month and over a year surely its paid for itself in no time being double the price of an slx, yes slx last a lot longer and invincible but for me my body comes first in this job now as I get older.
I’d rather wear a pole than wear a bone out, we’d all love the poles to last longer I agree but I think it’s always gonna be a balance between making a light pole and a reliable pole!
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Did you have some similar clamps lined up a while ago Alex with that cner company from China?
I seen a post on here or Facebook with someone saying you refused them as they had the cner logo on them.
Hand on heart from my experience though I can definately say the phantom clamps wear less on the pole section for sure, the actual clamp lever system I do prefer the gardiner clamp with the little shins and springs and they feel slightly better too in use but that soft rubber insert is a game changer for wcw.
I’ve always been one of those window cleaners who take something from here and something from there to make in my opinion the best of everything.
Are the phantom clamps patented and you can’t copy the idea, I’d love to see something new from gardiner along this idea, trust me it’s not a gimmick as I first thought when they came out!!!
From my experience, a lot of what you read on Facebook about our firm has to be discounted as not accurate ;D
We did have some communication with CNER a while back - but this was only when enforcing our Clamp Patent with them and other associated companies so that our Smart Clamp Patents were no longer being infringed - hence a rapid redesign of several pole companies’ clamps soon after release.
Whilst they send us many manufacturing inquiries, we make our clamps and poles with our own partner factories so do not need any general manufacturing assistance. We have never used CNER to manufacture any products and have never pursued any manufacturing options or inquiries with them - quite the opposite. Someone did infiltrate our factory and take photos to try and pass themselves off as our 'manufacturer' a while back - Since then no visitors are permitted into our factory.
Whilst some aspects of the Phantom soft insert construction have had a Patent applied for the overall concept is in use with several other clamp designs around the world so not sure whether this Patent will actually be granted or not. We have tested all of the clamps designs from around the world that use soft inserts and the results have been interesting for us.
You're not the only that likes these inserts though and as it is a fairly new concept it will be interesting to see how they all perform in the market long term. Anyway it is great for the window cleaner that there are so many options available these days.
It would have been interesting when you fitted brand new clamps to an older Xtreme how you would have found it if you had fitted brand new Smart Clamp assemblies. Fitting completely new clamps will always refresh the whole feel of a pole - regardless of the clamp type fitted - unless the pole sections have completely had it of course!
Thanks for replying again Alex, industrial espionage eh, you should be flattered some people are going to those lengths to see the factory pal, I’ve always wanted to see inside your factory too if I ever get to take the kids camping down your end😟
Your still the pole leader in the market pal and I know it seems mad that I’m gonna cut and replace the clamps but I had to have another xtreme as I love the whole gardiner set up in general, was my first ever pole starting out and I’ve worked my way up from a clx to an xtreme!
Will be interesting to try the ultimate flocked brush too I’ve ordered with the pole as I’ve been a devout supreme user since they’ve come out 👍
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How much money should a pole make?
If it makes 50k, just buy a new one innit.
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If you look after them they do last a long time but I find that the clamps do need to be adjusted often or they do spin working at an angle,I’ve had a few of them now and this most recent 1 I have to adjust more often than previous poles that are the same.
If you use a brush any heavier than an extreme they need adjusting daily sometimes half a turn,saying that they are a great pole and I’d recommend them.
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Some 'extreme' long sentences in this thread.
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Rather than getting a new Xtreme and replacing the clamps straight away, why not, get some good use out of the pole and the clamps, then if you get wear problems, cut 2 inches off the section and replace with the same clamps? If you are going to replace the clamps, you may as well do it when the pole is worn, rather than when it's new! That's just crazy! Sounds like the guy who broke up a boat to build a raft!
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When my Xtreme started spinning (top 2 sections only) I used 2 part Araldite, which took me about 40 mins to do and left it over the weekend to cure. I think I did it 2 years ago and still going strong.
Or
For me, it's only the top 2 sections that wear (obviously the most used), so just replace those sections at 100 quid each.
It's the tools that we use.
I have an electrician friend with some seriously good tools. However, when he works on large building sites in London he buys the cheapest drills and tools he can get. I asked him why and he said everything on site gets knicked or goes 'walkies'! He just factors the price of the tools into the job.
Some tools don't last forever...that's life!
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The reason for changing them out straight away pal is the phantom clamps barely give any wear, in the 2-3 months I’ve had them on my new slx replacement sections that I replaced my snapped xtreme sections with, they’re still like new!
whereas I know from experience in 2-3 months my poles are usually losing that brand new taped feel to them so if I replace new in 2-3 months time I won’t have any of that wear I’d have had with gardiner clamps!
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Crackers! Sounds like the Xtreme is not for you. Buy an SLX and leave the clamps alone!
Why Dazmond who earns £80 an hour is cobbling together bits of poles beats me!
got tempted again......the cobbled together xtreme 25 has been used for quite a bit of work lately but its fragile(cant extend section 2 much)and its walls are paper thin in places...only a matter of time before i snap another section,the slx/xtreme hybrid poles are ok but obviously heavier so ive ordered another brand new xtreme 25 for the winter months to go with 2 new xtreme sill brushes....... :D
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Well I recieved mine first thing Monday and other then the jets mix up issue which came in the post today so top service again from gardiner, I was in two minds about cutting brand new clamps off but I did it and fitted my phantom clamps, i now have the best pole with the best clamps😁
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1568143509_ECD13A0D-B889-44C0-9C10-D5D60A063848.jpeg)
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No uni-valve?
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Why buy an extream light pole then put that heavy valve on the top of it ? Seams to defeat the whole object of buying a light pole to me , I dont get the point of the valve at the top either as it will have to be turned on before extending so I don’t see the need for it , am I missing something?...
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Its not exactly heavy pal, have you felt the weight of one of those little things!!
I prefer it on top save scraping it dragging about they don’t last 5 mins yet they ones lasted about 3 years now.
You actually don’t use anymore than you would using something like a tap further down in the line or a univalve I’ve tried them all and your talking a quick second or two to extend the pole, if you used a univalve or inline tap further down you still have to take your hand off the pole turn them on then grab the pole again and start cleaning.
I Lose barely anything and if I was that concerned about water being that tight I’d be getting a bigger tank😂
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Its not exactly heavy pal, have you felt the weight of one of those little things!!
I prefer it on top save scraping it dragging about they don’t last 5 mins yet they ones lasted about 3 years now.
You actually don’t use anymore than you would using something like a tap further down in the line or a univalve I’ve tried them all and your talking a quick second or two to extend the pole, if you used a univalve or inline tap further down you still have to take your hand off the pole turn them on then grab the pole again and start cleaning.
I Lose barely anything and if I was that concerned about water being that tight I’d be getting a bigger tank😂
We don’t use any water cut off devices , I tried the univalve and it lasted less than 10 months so binned it and now just squeeze the hose we do loose a bit of water extending the pole but it’s minimal , with a 1000 ltr tank it isn’t a problem 😂😂
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Its not exactly heavy pal, have you felt the weight of one of those little things!!
I prefer it on top save scraping it dragging about they don’t last 5 mins yet they ones lasted about 3 years now.
You actually don’t use anymore than you would using something like a tap further down in the line or a univalve I’ve tried them all and your talking a quick second or two to extend the pole, if you used a univalve or inline tap further down you still have to take your hand off the pole turn them on then grab the pole again and start cleaning.
I Lose barely anything and if I was that concerned about water being that tight I’d be getting a bigger tank😂
have you not tried the new gardiners gooseneck valve?you dont have to take your hands off the pole to turn it off/on.....ive ordered one with my new pole....
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That’s the only thing I haven’t tried Daz, looks interesting but I use a swivel gooseneck so not sure it would work on that would it?
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You did ask if you were mad after all..............
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That’s the only thing I haven’t tried Daz, looks interesting but I use a swivel gooseneck so not sure it would work on that would it?
no they dont work with swivels mate.....
ive decided to have 3 poles in my van....
new xtreme 25
slx/xtreme hybrid 25
xtreme 47
my new xtreme 25 pole will only ever be used with xtreme brushes and a carbon gooseneck and univalve for all my awkward window work....the lightest it could possibly be.
the slx/hybrid 25 will have the new gooseneck valve and itll be used with heavier brushes(ultimate/wide ultimate)
and the xtreme 47 will be used as normal for higher work with xtreme brush/carbon gooseneck
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personally from my experience i think xtreme poles should only be used with xtreme brushes,no daft pole tap at the top(ive used them myself before now! ;D) and preferably with a carbon gooseneck and univalve.this makes the pole unbelievably light and rigid.
any heavier brushes/plastic goosenecks/valves,etc should only be used on more robust SLX poles IMO......
you might not think a few grams here and there makes a difference BUT IT DOES WHEN EXTENDING A POLE AT AWKWARD ANGLES OVER EXTENSIONS,ETC because of lateral pressure and gravity,this puts extra strain on both the pole sections and yourself.....
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I need to get this pole tap weighed as you guys seem to think its a lead weight😂
I bet there’s not much in it between one of those, that gardiner twisty gooseneck and an aquadapter?
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I need to get this pole tap weighed as you guys seem to think its a lead weight😂
I bet there’s not much in it between one of those, that gardiner twisty gooseneck and an aquadapter?
i used to use one myself...you dont want ANY extra weight at the top of an extreme pole if possible.......but hey its up to you!your the one using it every day..... ;D
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I ordered an xtreme brush a few months back, tried it on two windows and did t like it at all as there is nothing to them. Way to narrow and hardly any bristles and yes I know that’s why it’s so light but definitely not for me.
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i think i might just have to buy a new extreme 25 pole every year from now on......the reduced strain and easier working days are phenomenal.......i think ill treat them better in the future though....
1.only use xtreme brushes on this pole..no heavier brushes...
2.flush is out with water more often and spray with PTFE spray.
3.dont try and close stiff open windows with it!clean them open or miss out!
4.vary the clamping points on the sections a bit to vary the wear on the sections..
its all you can do really.........
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I ordered an xtreme brush a few months back, tried it on two windows and did t like it at all as there is nothing to them. Way to narrow and hardly any bristles and yes I know that’s why it’s so light but definitely not for me.
you should of at least given it a weeks use before making a decision rather than 2 windows! ::)roll ;D.......the new xtreme sill brushes look great.....ive ordered 2 of them......this might just be what your looking for in a brush.....extreme lightness and more bristles.......
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Well I recieved mine first thing Monday and other then the jets mix up issue which came in the post today so top service again from gardiner, I was in two minds about cutting brand new clamps off but I did it and fitted my phantom clamps, i now have the best pole with the best clamps😁
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1568143509_ECD13A0D-B889-44C0-9C10-D5D60A063848.jpeg)
Will you use this pole for most of your work now then pal?
I've just got mine delivered however I'll be leaving the Gardiner clamps on.....
Itll be interesting to see if my xtreme wears sooner than yours....give us an update in 6 months time of the condition of it and then again 6 months later.. and I'll do the same....👍
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So my new xtreme 25 is my main every day pole(with univalve),I have my 3 version cobbled together worn xtreme 25 in the van as back up then an extreme 47 with new gooseneck valve for occasional higher work.....😎👍
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Hi Daz yes it will be my everyday pole now so sounds like a great plan to check back in 6 months see how we both get on, I genuinely give it a strip down once a month and retape and dry ptfe spray it but there abouts every few days flush it if I can hear any grit.
I’ve recut my snapped section on my old xtreme and given that a clean and lube and put it in the back of my van in case I snap any sections on this one now as a spare, my arms didn’t like using my slx39 whenever I snapped a section on my old pole😂
Worked 3 days this week after coming back from a vasectomy but loved using the new pole, there’s something very satisfying about using one with new clamps etc not spinning!!
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I'll flush it out once a week and take it apart once a month for a good clean and use the PTFE spray and see how I go on.....
Personally I doubt there will be any difference in wear over 12 months....both will be knackered by then(apart from sections 4 or 5!)these last forever....... ;D
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Haha yeah those two sections are always last to go!
It will definitely be interesting pal, like I said earlier I’ve already had the phantom clamps on for a good 5-6 months now on my old pole and been using 2 new sections about 2-3 months and they haven’t worn smooth yet losing that taped ridged feel.
I have 2 videos of before and after extending the new pole last week and you can instantly hear the pole gliding through the phantom clamps much quieter with less friction, Shame I can’t upload them on here.
Can’t wait to see how we both get on next 6-12 months between both poles😁
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Update ;D
After receiving my new xtreme yesterday I felt it was time to update on how my last pole went with the phantom clamps fitted from new.
Firstly I only replaced the pole as I like to replace them every 12-15 months regardless of condition so I’ve not replaced it because it’s unusable etc but I’ve had 17 months out of this now and could get even longer if I wanted.
The pole has Definately worn better than it would with the smart clamps for sure.
It has worn which was always inevitable and will happen regardless of any clamps fitted, the pole still feels strong and hasn’t got any worn grooves in around top etc.
With my older poles I’d have usually snapped a section by 11-12th month and haven’t yet with this one.
The only thing and main reason why I wouldn’t take the clamps off a gardiner pole and fit phantom clamps is there must be a slight difference in pole section bore diameter between phantoms and gardiner poles so the phantom clamps tends to slip easier than gardiner clamps so I’ve had to tighten the phantom clamps up to the point they won’t clamp anymore tighter as they’ve closed up on themselves with the gap is between the lever.
It’s been a good test as I’ve treated the pole no differently to how I would my old poles and gave a try as I had a set of phantom clamps spare and was impressed with them on my old pole and one thing for certain and way better on the phantom is the lack of black hand from the carbon pole wearing less.
Would I spend £70-£80 on phantom clamps again and fit them to an xtreme, no but I’ve stuck with xtreme poles for now rather than buy a phantom himod as I know what I’m getting which is a slightly cheaper pole with a new brush and I’m also not sure about that extra top section pole on phantoms which is a lot thinner bore than gardiner no1 section.
So final conclusion, phantom clamps Definately wear less from my experience however for someone like me who replaces my poles every 12-15 months anyway it’s not worth doing, I’ve used this 17 months now and it’s still going strong so maybe my next pole after this xtreme I’ve just bought maybe a phantom to try but I’m just not brave enough at the moment as I’m like one of those apple fanboys who won’t try an android as I feel institutionalised to use gardiner ever since I started window cleaning with poles :D
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Change it every year 🤣🤣 a word of advise when you put the pole away don’t throw it from 10 yards away,put it away gently lol.
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I've changed 2 sections(2 and 3) on my xtreme 25..its around 17 months old too...
No 2 is a new section and no 3 is an old section from another xtreme.....
Plenty of life left in it yet although I'll probably buy a new no 3 section soon...
I've got 4 sets of no 4 and 5 xtreme sections which are perfectly fine so I'll be buying the top 3 sections for one set of these when I need a new pole....👍
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I rang them up today as well Daz but they didn’t have anymore trigger brooms in stock 🤣🤣 that’s not the same pole then m8 is it lol.
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My pole is like Trigger's broom :D
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Plenty of life left in my pole Daz I’ve just got a new brush 5 new sections and a new pole hose 🤣🤣,and it’s a 22 footer lol.
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The only thing I might need soon for it is a new hose tail 🤣🤣
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Change it every year 🤣🤣 a word of advise when you put the pole away don’t throw it from 10 yards away,put it away gently lol.
Hehe honestly pal i look after my poles really well but always find I start snapping xtreme sections around the 11-12 month mark but haven’t snapped one yet on the one with phantom clamps, just time for a renewal I felt.
When I used to use slx poles I never snapped one of those once, they’re a solid pole other than one time I found the internal end of a pole section wearing away.
I just rather renew around the 12-15 month mark, rather spend that money on new equipment then going to the tax man too!
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I’ve got a 22ft I’ve had for quiet a while now it must be a couple of years at least it’s only just starting to creek when all sections are fully out,clear laquer will stop that for another few months at least I say to anyone have in you’re mind how much a certain pole has made you in its life it won’t hurt so much when you replace it.
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Why’s it not for me pal, I’ve had this pole since March 2018 replacing a couple of sections along the way mainly after the 12-13 month mark, I think for an extreme that’s being used everyday earning good money that’s good going and I genuinely strip and retape monthly but clean it weekly so don’t abuse it.
I’m happy with how long it’s lasted with his much I’ve aren’t to previous years using slx poles and my body feeling much less tired and a dicky shoulder injury gone within months of using it so definitely money well spent, my only issue would be the clamps though and how rough they get internally over time rubbing on the pole sections, I’d love gardiner to have something similar to the rubber phantom inserts that are really soft so barely wear the pole section, sort that out and they’ll have the best pole on the market for sure aslike I said earlier I don’t like the phantom poles top section that’s way too thin for my liking and I’ve heard from a few users they’re first to snap.
We have every major pole on the market on tough long term test - and based on the results we are getting, we are currently still very happy with the way our clamps and poles perform and last, so no plans to change to rubber inserts.
Obviously different poles and systems can better suit different users so opinions can vary :)
I for one like Gardiner clamps, very reliable. Bought a phantom pole and the clamps were spinning in no time. replaced the clamp inserts with the red silicon and wore them out in no time. Binned the pole so threw it in the shed, where it's remained ever since, pole is like new but can't be arsed keep adjusting the clamps because it spins, useless! Ova8 beautiful pole, love it!
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Why’s it not for me pal, I’ve had this pole since March 2018 replacing a couple of sections along the way mainly after the 12-13 month mark, I think for an extreme that’s being used everyday earning good money that’s good going and I genuinely strip and retape monthly but clean it weekly so don’t abuse it.
I’m happy with how long it’s lasted with his much I’ve aren’t to previous years using slx poles and my body feeling much less tired and a dicky shoulder injury gone within months of using it so definitely money well spent, my only issue would be the clamps though and how rough they get internally over time rubbing on the pole sections, I’d love gardiner to have something similar to the rubber phantom inserts that are really soft so barely wear the pole section, sort that out and they’ll have the best pole on the market for sure aslike I said earlier I don’t like the phantom poles top section that’s way too thin for my liking and I’ve heard from a few users they’re first to snap.
We have every major pole on the market on tough long term test - and based on the results we are getting, we are currently still very happy with the way our clamps and poles perform and last, so no plans to change to rubber inserts.
Obviously different poles and systems can better suit different users so opinions can vary :)
I for one like Gardiner clamps, very reliable. Bought a phantom pole and the clamps were spinning in no time. replaced the clamp inserts with the red silicon and wore them out in no time. Binned the pole so threw it in the shed, where it's remained ever since, pole is like new but can't be arsed keep adjusting the clamps because it spins, useless! Ova8 beautiful pole, love it!
Wow you must nail your poles pal as I’ve not worn my silicone inserts out in over 17 months use, I do regularly spray dry ptf on my poles though so maybe that saves them, I think the gardiner clamps have a nicer smoother action to them until they wear in then they start to get stiff when closing them past half way, not sure why they do it but I’ve had it with all my gardiner clamps, maybe it’s just because of the wear or something!
I’m Definately keeping tabs on the ova8 pole, I was just put off with that video doing the rounds a year or two ago where the clamps wasn’t gripping on a used one and I’ve seen comments saying once the pole sections wear on the curves there’s nothing you can do to tighten the play up.
Have you used the ova8 long pal?
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I’ve got a 22ft I’ve had for quiet a while now it must be a couple of years at least it’s only just starting to creek when all sections are fully out,clear laquer will stop that for another few months at least I say to anyone have in you’re mind how much a certain pole has made you in its life it won’t hurt so much when you replace it.
Spot on pal I used to spray my poles with lacquer years ago when money was tight and i was building my round up but exactly like you say what’s the cost of a pole to what it earns you in 12 months, for me £650 for an xtreme 22 is 6 hours work and its paid for itself and then I get hundreds of hours through the year!
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Rolls Royce clamps on the Extremes smooth as butter the more you use the pole the better it gets,bit like my main pole 🤣🤣🤣
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I’ve got a 22ft I’ve had for quiet a while now it must be a couple of years at least it’s only just starting to creek when all sections are fully out,clear laquer will stop that for another few months at least I say to anyone have in you’re mind how much a certain pole has made you in its life it won’t hurt so much when you replace it.
Spot on pal I used to spray my poles with lacquer years ago when money was tight and i was building my round up but exactly like you say what’s the cost of a pole to what it earns you in 12 months, for me £650 for an xtreme 22 is 6 hours work and its paid for itself and then I get hundreds of hours through the year!
Exactly that m8 you hear people I’m not paying that for a pole blah blah blah sit down and add up what it’s made you if you use mainly 1-2 poles day to day,it’s what makes you’re day easier how long is it going to take to earn that little bit more back in the difference between 2 poles for example probably just a matter of 2-3 hours,it’s a no brainier for me.
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Why’s it not for me pal, I’ve had this pole since March 2018 replacing a couple of sections along the way mainly after the 12-13 month mark, I think for an extreme that’s being used everyday earning good money that’s good going and I genuinely strip and retape monthly but clean it weekly so don’t abuse it.
I’m happy with how long it’s lasted with his much I’ve aren’t to previous years using slx poles and my body feeling much less tired and a dicky shoulder injury gone within months of using it so definitely money well spent, my only issue would be the clamps though and how rough they get internally over time rubbing on the pole sections, I’d love gardiner to have something similar to the rubber phantom inserts that are really soft so barely wear the pole section, sort that out and they’ll have the best pole on the market for sure aslike I said earlier I don’t like the phantom poles top section that’s way too thin for my liking and I’ve heard from a few users they’re first to snap.
We have every major pole on the market on tough long term test - and based on the results we are getting, we are currently still very happy with the way our clamps and poles perform and last, so no plans to change to rubber inserts.
Obviously different poles and systems can better suit different users so opinions can vary :)
I for one like Gardiner clamps, very reliable. Bought a phantom pole and the clamps were spinning in no time. replaced the clamp inserts with the red silicon and wore them out in no time. Binned the pole so threw it in the shed, where it's remained ever since, pole is like new but can't be arsed keep adjusting the clamps because it spins, useless! Ova8 beautiful pole, love it!
Wow you must nail your poles pal as I’ve not worn my silicone inserts out in over 17 months use, I do regularly spray dry ptf on my poles though so maybe that saves them, I think the gardiner clamps have a nicer smoother action to them until they wear in then they start to get stiff when closing them past half way, not sure why they do it but I’ve had it with all my gardiner clamps, maybe it’s just because of the wear or something!
I’m Definately keeping tabs on the ova8 pole, I was just put off with that video doing the rounds a year or two ago where the clamps wasn’t gripping on a used one and I’ve seen comments saying once the pole sections wear on the curves there’s nothing you can do to tighten the play up.
Have you used the ova8 long pal?
Used Ova8 for about two years. Fitted Radial Lite and Rocker Radial to them. Probably why I use to go through less effective clamps like the Phantom clamps but have no problems with Ova8 clamps as the poles are oval shaped to prevent spinning clamps.
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How long have you been using the ova8 for pal?
Any wear on the pole curved edges yet?
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I have a Hi Mod Ova pole good pole as far as the spinning goes.
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When I bought the Ova8 poles the clamps had a little movement even when the clamps were done up tight on the pole so I removed them and put one wind of tape around the top of each pole, re-clamped them up tighter and never had any problems with clamps ever needing adjusting again. no wear on the pole.
It can't be extended out as quick as say a phantom pole as the pole isn't as smooth externally but it has better grip for the clamps to bite onto.
Although the pole is thin in material, because of it's oval shape it handles heavier brushes better than competitive value poles and has less bend over conservatories in comparison.
It's less straining on the fingers used for long periods compared with round poles for sure.
I favour using the latest Radial brushes using a squeegie technique as I find it much quicker but it puts more strain on the clamps and swivel bracket yet saves quite a bit of time. I use 10-8mm internal pole hose which I connect to 12mm flat reel hose which gives plenty of water flow to make the brushes efficient with excessive amounts of water.
Using microbore with 8-5mm internal pole hose wouldn't give enough water to make the brushes work as intended as backflow pressure needs to be reduced to the bare minimum for them brushes to be quick and efficient. I just love working with them, no comparison . Does take a while to get comfortable using this technique and to trust in it. Nearest brushes that comes close are flocked brushes like extreme sill on georgian windows.
Using Radial brushes with a very good flow of water I get a perfect sheet of water cascading down the glass and turn the brush 15-30 degrees facing the frame so the water doesn't repel against the rubber or silicon sealant on the frames and find less spotting and less beads left on the glass panes so it dries quicker. Some customers who have hydrophillic glass ask me if I have missed some of their windows as they dry quicker with a better cascade of water, even they notice the difference with a better sheeting on the rinse.
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The white 4 jetted brush they sent me was toilet I think they use cat hair it’s so soft folds flatter than a witches 🧙♀️ tit,they sent the wrong one but I wasn’t really bothered about the brush.
The pole will be better when it wears in so it drops on its own.
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I have a Hi Mod Ova pole good pole as far as the spinning goes.
are they as lite as the extreme poles ?
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No but they are very close I think the awkwardness before you get used to the new shape makes it feel a bit more heavier If that makes sense,they are imo the best quality Carbon on the market at the moment the clamps aren’t as good as the Gardiner but they are still good very easy to use they say they don’t spin and they don’t,I don’t think you’ll regret buying one I thought I’d made a mistake at first but you need to get used to the new shape it takes some getting used to.
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I was looking at changing to a phantom high mod may have a look at this ova high mod instead
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I have a Hi Mod Ova pole good pole as far as the spinning goes.
are they as lite as the extreme poles ?
The xtreme 22 weighs 990g pal and the equivalent ova8 himod is 1150g.
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Yeah I know it weighs more they all weigh more than the extreme,the Ova is a good quality well made pole though.
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I understand the Ova is similar to the Boss poles ,except the shape .I had a Boss pole for a few days and the clamps were rubbish, looked good but the adjustments were no good ,so I've sold it as couldn't get on with it .The ova is using the same clamps I believe so I don't think they'll last very well .After 10 years or so with Gardiner poles everything else looks and feels dated and behind .
There is a hype about these new poles ,Ova and Boss , which make me think not all the reviews ,feedback is genuine .
That's my opinion based on my experience .
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Aren’t they made by cner?
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at the end of the day its no good buying any other poles than the xtreme poles if your looking to cut down repetitive strain on your body..if boss/ova poles are heavier they just wont make your working day as easy as possible will they?
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I have been looking at the 22 extreme but having to wash it down every week and constantly have to wipe the hose puts me off
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You don’t have to the last time I washed mine down we weren’t having to keep away from each other and wearing masks everywhere we went,if you get grit in any pole it’ll scratch and score it you don’t need to treat it any differently once you’ve had one other poles will tempt you but you’ll always go back to an extreme like a dirty ex 🤣🤣
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I never wash mine just use it and i dont look after it at all mine gets dropped all the time i get 2 years out of them but replace Frist 2 sections over the 2 years my last extreme i used the base section on my slx 22 and its a lot nicer to use now its my gutter pole
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I have been looking at the 22 extreme but having to wash it down every week and constantly have to wipe the hose puts me off
Stick with your heavier poles then...
. ;D
Just think if you used an xtreme pole all day you ll have the extra energy to flush it out and wipe the pole hose occasionally.....😄
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I’m waiting on the Extreme 22 coming back into stock, I get away with an SLX 18 for the large majority of my work but occasionally need the SLX 22 for slightly higher stuff and some windows above conservatories. The 22 is starting to show it’s age so time for an upgrade, ordinarily I would just get another SLX but because I use the heavier 35cm brushes on my poles the reduced weight and rigidity of the Extreme pole is appealing.
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I’m waiting on the Extreme 22 coming back into stock, I get away with an SLX 18 for the large majority of my work but occasionally need the SLX 22 for slightly higher stuff and some windows above conservatories. The 22 is starting to show it’s age so time for an upgrade, ordinarily I would just get another SLX but because I use the heavier 35cm brushes on my poles the reduced weight and rigidity of the Extreme pole is appealing.
They’re back in stock now pal, just got mine the other day😉
Going back to the ova8, I’m really interested i them but weight is a massive issue for me and my shoulders and I couldn’t go for an ova8 himod that’s another 160 grams more than an xtreme22.
Shame as the oval pole seems like a great idea but do wonder how they get when the curved edges wear down
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I’m waiting on the Extreme 22 coming back into stock, I get away with an SLX 18 for the large majority of my work but occasionally need the SLX 22 for slightly higher stuff and some windows above conservatories. The 22 is starting to show it’s age so time for an upgrade, ordinarily I would just get another SLX but because I use the heavier 35cm brushes on my poles the reduced weight and rigidity of the Extreme pole is appealing.
They’re back in stock now pal, just got mine the other day😉
Going back to the ova8, I’m really interested i them but weight is a massive issue for me and my shoulders and I couldn’t go for an ova8 himod that’s another 160 grams more than an xtreme22.
Shame as the oval pole seems like a great idea but do wonder how they get when the curved edges wear down
They’re out of stock again😢
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snapped no 1 section on my 18 month old xtreme the other day......i replaced it with an old no1 metal banded section...the only problem is the metal band spins fully extended!i hate having to just clamp it either fully open,half open or closed as well....
so ive ordered number 1,2,3 xtreme sections to fit inside 4 and 5 of my 18 month old pole....itll be like a new pole then! ;D
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Out of stock again :(
I was waiting for one then completely forgot and missed it
They have the 25s but i want a 22 this time, the 25 is a bit long for most stuff on my round
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snapped no 1 section on my 18 month old xtreme the other day......i replaced it with an old no1 metal banded section...the only problem is the metal band spins fully extended!i hate having to just clamp it either fully open,half open or closed as well....
so ive ordered number 1,2,3 xtreme sections to fit inside 4 and 5 of my 18 month old pole....itll be like a new pole then! ;D
You’d av been better getting an SLX No1 section, Xtreme 2&3 sections. You would hardly notice the difference weight wise and you would have had a stronger pole.
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Out of stock again :(
I was waiting for one then completely forgot and missed it
They have the 25s but i want a 22 this time, the 25 is a bit long for most stuff on my round
You can request an email when they come back into stock, that’s what I’ve done.
They were hoping to have them in by end of the month.
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snapped no 1 section on my 18 month old xtreme the other day......i replaced it with an old no1 metal banded section...the only problem is the metal band spins fully extended!i hate having to just clamp it either fully open,half open or closed as well....
so ive ordered number 1,2,3 xtreme sections to fit inside 4 and 5 of my 18 month old pole....itll be like a new pole then! ;D
You’d av been better getting an SLX No1 section, Xtreme 2&3 sections. You would hardly notice the difference weight wise and you would have had a stronger pole.
its actually xtreme sections 2 and 3 that seem to wear out quicker for some reason normally......i could of easily put an SLX section in place of the xtreme section as i have 2 SLXs and i have done that before now but it defeats the object of having the lightest pole possible....i have lots of awkward windows to clean on big chunks of my work...
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Out of stock again :(
I was waiting for one then completely forgot and missed it
They have the 25s but i want a 22 this time, the 25 is a bit long for most stuff on my round
You can request an email when they come back into stock, that’s what I’ve done.
They were hoping to have them in by end of the month.
I think they came in a couple of weeks ago but by the time i saw the email it was too late.
I didnt think they would be that popular tbh.
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Daz why do you think the first few sections wear out quicker I’m going to give you 1 go at giving me an answer.
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Daz why do you think the first few sections wear out quicker I’m going to give you 1 go at giving me an answer.
Read his post again, that’s not what he said. Reading what others write really isn’t a strong point of yours is it?🤦♂️
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You love me KS I rock you’re world I can just tell it must be chemistry or something I can’t put my index finger on it yet but it’ll cum to me eventually,lots of love.
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Daz why do you think the first few sections wear out quicker I’m going to give you 1 go at giving me an answer.
Read his post again, that’s not what he said. Reading what others write really isn’t a strong point of yours is it?🤦♂️
I just ignore NWH.....he s a complete walking personality disorder......🤣
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Update ;D
After receiving my new xtreme yesterday I felt it was time to update on how my last pole went with the phantom clamps fitted from new.
Firstly I only replaced the pole as I like to replace them every 12-15 months regardless of condition so I’ve not replaced it because it’s unusable etc but I’ve had 17 months out of this now and could get even longer if I wanted.
The pole has Definately worn better than it would with the smart clamps for sure.
It has worn which was always inevitable and will happen regardless of any clamps fitted, the pole still feels strong and hasn’t got any worn grooves in around top etc.
With my older poles I’d have usually snapped a section by 11-12th month and haven’t yet with this one.
The only thing and main reason why I wouldn’t take the clamps off a gardiner pole and fit phantom clamps is there must be a slight difference in pole section bore diameter between phantoms and gardiner poles so the phantom clamps tends to slip easier than gardiner clamps so I’ve had to tighten the phantom clamps up to the point they won’t clamp anymore tighter as they’ve closed up on themselves with the gap is between the lever.
It’s been a good test as I’ve treated the pole no differently to how I would my old poles and gave a try as I had a set of phantom clamps spare and was impressed with them on my old pole and one thing for certain and way better on the phantom is the lack of black hand from the carbon pole wearing less.
Would I spend £70-£80 on phantom clamps again and fit them to an xtreme, no but I’ve stuck with xtreme poles for now rather than buy a phantom himod as I know what I’m getting which is a slightly cheaper pole with a new brush and I’m also not sure about that extra top section pole on phantoms which is a lot thinner bore than gardiner no1 section.
So final conclusion, phantom clamps Definately wear less from my experience however for someone like me who replaces my poles every 12-15 months anyway it’s not worth doing, I’ve used this 17 months now and it’s still going strong so maybe my next pole after this xtreme I’ve just bought maybe a phantom to try but I’m just not brave enough at the moment as I’m like one of those apple fanboys who won’t try an android as I feel institutionalised to use gardiner ever since I started window cleaning with poles :D
Replacing poles every 12 months ??? it’s on just starting to get worn in?! I’ve had my pole for 7 years now only replaced one section 3rd section cus I snapped it on a wall section 1 and 2 are a bit shorter and knackered at the ends but?!!? Probably lost a foot or 2 off it max.. lemme know when your replacing again I’ll buy it for sure :) :)
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It’s no wonder some people put their poles away like Fatima Whitbread.
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It’s no wonder some people put their poles away like Fatima Whitbread.
That’s quite funny for you😆 although a wee comma after wonder wouldn’t go amiss.
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Ahhh jumping on the old grammmma again R wee lol you really are running out of things to dig about 🤣🤣
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Ahhh jumping on the old grammmma again R wee lol you really are running out of things to dig about 🤣🤣
Runnin out of things to dig about? No chance, you’re giving me an endless supply of ammunition!
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😘 love you.
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I’m thinking of coming up to Scotland 🏴 when all this is over you can put me up if you want please,I’m only coming if you live somewhere that has lovely views though. 👍
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I’m thinking of coming up to Scotland 🏴 when all this is over you can put me up if you want please,I’m only coming if you live somewhere that has lovely views though. 👍
I have a ‘tin pot’ static caravan that has views over the river Eden towards St Andrews if that appeals to you?
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Update ;D
After receiving my new xtreme yesterday I felt it was time to update on how my last pole went with the phantom clamps fitted from new.
Firstly I only replaced the pole as I like to replace them every 12-15 months regardless of condition so I’ve not replaced it because it’s unusable etc but I’ve had 17 months out of this now and could get even longer if I wanted.
The pole has Definately worn better than it would with the smart clamps for sure.
It has worn which was always inevitable and will happen regardless of any clamps fitted, the pole still feels strong and hasn’t got any worn grooves in around top etc.
With my older poles I’d have usually snapped a section by 11-12th month and haven’t yet with this one.
The only thing and main reason why I wouldn’t take the clamps off a gardiner pole and fit phantom clamps is there must be a slight difference in pole section bore diameter between phantoms and gardiner poles so the phantom clamps tends to slip easier than gardiner clamps so I’ve had to tighten the phantom clamps up to the point they won’t clamp anymore tighter as they’ve closed up on themselves with the gap is between the lever.
It’s been a good test as I’ve treated the pole no differently to how I would my old poles and gave a try as I had a set of phantom clamps spare and was impressed with them on my old pole and one thing for certain and way better on the phantom is the lack of black hand from the carbon pole wearing less.
Would I spend £70-£80 on phantom clamps again and fit them to an xtreme, no but I’ve stuck with xtreme poles for now rather than buy a phantom himod as I know what I’m getting which is a slightly cheaper pole with a new brush and I’m also not sure about that extra top section pole on phantoms which is a lot thinner bore than gardiner no1 section.
So final conclusion, phantom clamps Definately wear less from my experience however for someone like me who replaces my poles every 12-15 months anyway it’s not worth doing, I’ve used this 17 months now and it’s still going strong so maybe my next pole after this xtreme I’ve just bought maybe a phantom to try but I’m just not brave enough at the moment as I’m like one of those apple fanboys who won’t try an android as I feel institutionalised to use gardiner ever since I started window cleaning with poles :D
Replacing poles every 12 months ??? it’s on just starting to get worn in?! I’ve had my pole for 7 years now only replaced one section 3rd section cus I snapped it on a wall section 1 and 2 are a bit shorter and knackered at the ends but?!!? Probably lost a foot or 2 off it max.. lemme know when your replacing again I’ll buy it for sure :) :)
is it an xtreme pole though?most other poles like clx,slxs will last many years as a main pole but with xtreme poles its a different story......
the first 3 xtreme sections on my 25 footer are pretty much done in after 18 months...usually i snap or splinter at least one section after 12 months or so.....
ive just added 3 new xtreme sections to sections 4 and 5 of my 18 month old pole..i usually just buy a new xtreme 25 every year but no need as sections 4 and 5 are still in good condition...in fact i have another 4 sets of these sections so i only need to buy the first 3 sections for a fair few years yet.....
at the end of the day xtreme poles are worth it if your a sole trader...esp if you have lots of awkward windows to clean full extended at 25 foot(sometimes horizontally!),3 storey,skylights and larger jobs where you need a full 25ft just to reach the first floor windows...
i have an 8 year old xtreme 47 with the old style clamps,its still in good condition but it only gets used around 10 times a month......my main xtreme 25 gets battered every day
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As long as it has a log burner that’ll do me 👌 I want to go up near the Cairngorns is it where they go on top gear 👍 beautiful up there.
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No log burner am afraid. The Cairngorms is further north, near Aviemore. Pitlochry is probably the best base for the Cairngorms, it’s a good distance away but there is plenty to do in the Pitlochry area itself and some stunning scenery.
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Just ordered an extreme 25 ;D
couldnt wait for the 22 to come in any longer, shoulders are killing me ....
Think i will grab an 18 as well when they come in that should make may day easier.
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Just ordered an extreme 25 ;D
couldnt wait for the 22 to come in any longer, shoulders are killing me ....
Think i will grab an 18 as well when they come in that should make may day easier.
That's it in a nutshell mate....they just make your every day work easier.....even better if it's used with a carbon gooseneck and standard xtreme brush...... light as a feather and rigid as hell......
I've saved myself 300 notes by ordering the first 3 sections....section 4 and base section 5 last twice as long I've found out over the years.....
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Just ordered an extreme 25 ;D
couldnt wait for the 22 to come in any longer, shoulders are killing me ....
Think i will grab an 18 as well when they come in that should make may day easier.
That's it in a nutshell mate....they just make your every day work easier.....even better if it's used with a carbon gooseneck and standard xtreme brush...... light as a feather and rigid as hell......
I've saved myself 300 notes by ordering the first 3 sections....section 4 and base section 5 last twice as long I've found out over the years.....
Ive had the 25 before but sold it to buy a new slx 25.
Yes i always use the extreme stiff brush but couldnt manage with a gooseneck that doesnt adjust.
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If you use an extreme sill brush that adjustable gooseneck isn’t required.
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If you use an extreme sill brush that adjustable gooseneck isn’t required.
It is for me, i change the angle regular
For example above an extension or conny when you need the brush almost 0 degrees to the pole or when in a tight space and need nearer 90 degrees.
Having a fixed position in some cases means you are cleaning with the top of the stock hitting the window or the jets shooting upwards.
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Never need to use an angle adapter ever for my work the only time I stick one on is if I clean my own soffits.
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If you use an extreme sill brush that adjustable gooseneck isn’t required.
It is for me, i change the angle regular
For example above an extension or conny when you need the brush almost 0 degrees to the pole or when in a tight space and need nearer 90 degrees.
Having a fixed position in some cases means you are cleaning with the top of the stock hitting the window or the jets shooting upwards.
Really?I never change the angle on an angle adaptor unless I'm cleaning a glass roof with very little fall on it.....
I too sometimes use a xtreme sill brush and I dont even have to do that when cleaning roofs....
I always find a way of cleaning the window without having to faff about adjusting a gooseneck 30 times a day
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Well my extreme arrived today.
Coming home to a gardiners delivery never ceases to put a smile on your face. :)
I havent put it in the van yet, its sleeping in the spare room i cant risk it being nicked before its debut tomorrow...
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That’s me ordered my Xtreme 22, came back into stock yesterday for anyone that’s interested in buying one.