Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Pryor on July 21, 2019, 07:30:42 pm
-
I am interested to know how people that cannot run an electric cable out to their van in the winter keep in from freezing?
-
I thought you would know by now Lee - 4.5k on a diesel heater
Of course were all waiting for either P&F or your good self to bring the alternative to market
Darran
-
We used to recommend a gas driven Propex HS2000 or HS2200 with the thermostat set at around 2 degrees C. Unfortunately the gas bottle needs accommodating.
The negative is that the heater takes up floor space and needs provision for an inlet and exhaust through the floor below it.
-
Park them inside.
-
Something like this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5000W-12V-Air-Diesel-Heater-4-Holes-LCD-Monitor-PLANAR-For-Trucks-Boats-Bus-Car/143320953743?hash=item215e98338f:g:UokAAOSwEGBdIENN
or this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-2KW-Diesel-Air-Heater-for-RV-Motorhome-Trailer-Trucks-Boats-2000W-LCD-UK/133058855941?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dc4ac7b2d80094eeba85f80d8410430d9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D143009460416%26itm%3D133058855941%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
-
Something like this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5000W-12V-Air-Diesel-Heater-4-Holes-LCD-Monitor-PLANAR-For-Trucks-Boats-Bus-Car/143320953743?hash=item215e98338f:g:UokAAOSwEGBdIENN
This looks pretty straightforward? Have you got one of these?
-
Park them inside.
I wish I could
-
Something like this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5000W-12V-Air-Diesel-Heater-4-Holes-LCD-Monitor-PLANAR-For-Trucks-Boats-Bus-Car/143320953743?hash=item215e98338f:g:UokAAOSwEGBdIENN
This looks pretty straightforward? Have you got one of these?
Seen this last year on YouTube but can't remember how the vents setup, infact I think it was only setup in a workshop
-
mine are kept inside,
depending on P&F I will probably go down the air heater route this October then reduce to a smaller unit strictly for equipment - the place I have in mind has 24hr cctv and secure parking areas
Darran
-
I think someone on here stuck foam insulation to the insides of their van as one step to keep his van from freezing but can’t remember who it was
-
Grippatank diesel Hydroheat.
-
I think Lee's thinking for twelve or so vans so not realistic I would guess.
-
The trouble with diesel heaters is that they use a fair amount of current to get started.
To keep a van above freezing (my electric froststat kicks in a 2 degrees and off at 4 degrees) would mean that heater firing up numerous times through the night. Battery drain will be a major concern. If that cleaner hasn't off road parking, how will he bench charge his leisure battery?
There could be the other option of fitting a very expensive lithium-ion battery that will accept very fast charging with temperatures above freezing. But this could mean some alternator modifications plus the cost of the heater.
A propex gas heater requires a minimal amount of current to start it but probably uses a similar amount as a diesel heater with the fan running.
One of the local lads has on street parking only. He drains his pumps down at night during the winter and brings his hose reels inside. But we don't get the cold on the North East coast some experience futher inland.
Another further north insulated his tank and lagged the pipe from his tank to the pumps. He added 12v heat tracing cable between the pipe and lagging. When he started the van in the morning he switched this heat tracing cable on and it warmed the pipe enough to melt an ice in the pipe. He also drains his pumps down and at the same time pumps the water out of the pipe from his pump to his van port.
On a side note, I wonder if its a viable option to look into all these charging points for electric vehicles that are now becoming more widely available and make use of them.
-
while draining down and removing reels etc.. is an option I don't think its practical for staff and multi vans - too time consuming and always the problem things get forgotten.
would it not be better to set the range wider ie. on at 2 degrees off at 6 or 8 degrees with would mean the heater working for a longer period to reach the higher temp but would be off longer until the temp dropped so the heater wouldn't be in this on/off cycle ?
Darran
-
An alternate option would be an insulated tank and immersion heater, We have developed a unit to manage an immersion heater, http://springltd.co/v11m-ihc-tp
-
An alternate option would be an insulated tank and immersion heater, We have developed a unit to manage an immersion heater, http://springltd.co/v11m-ihc-tp
The problem Ian is with those who can only park in the street, sometimes a bit away from their house/flat.
-
I think the majority have driveways & power don’t we? Not sure what the answer is for those that don’t have driveways?
Isn’t that pretty much just a very neatly packaged thermostat Ian?
I’m still reluctant to drill into my tank even after all what I’ve read regarding immersions.
-
Old duvet cover that was going in the bin
0££££'s
Works well 95% time here in the mild Cheshire climate
Cheaper having a day off or 2 than spending£4500.00😁😁
-
My diesel heater only kicks in a couple of times during the coldest nights. Mines always connected to mains straight to van overnight to charge batteries. So if you can't connect to mains then charging will be a issue.
Maybe best option for Lee is to invest in installing electric posts in his yard similar to caravan park hook ups to use heaters.
-
Drain pump and reel.
Chuck what I can in the front cab with me and heater on full to first job.
Failing that, backpack the first few jobs til temp picks up.
Any colder, I stay in bed.
EDIT; Sorry Lee, just realised my reply has no relevance to your question as I don't keep my van warm. ::)roll
-
My diesel heater only kicks in a couple of times during the coldest nights. Mines always connected to mains straight to van overnight to charge batteries. So if you can't connect to mains then charging will be a issue.
Maybe best option for Lee is to invest in installing electric posts in his yard similar to caravan park hook ups to use heaters.
same......i always charge my batteries every night regardless of what time of year it is.....
-
Drain pump and reel.
Chuck what I can in the front cab with me and heater on full to first job.
Failing that, backpack the first few jobs til temp picks up.
Any colder, I stay in bed.
Love it😂😂😂
-
The trouble with diesel heaters is that they use a fair amount of current to get started.
To keep a van above freezing (my electric froststat kicks in a 2 degrees and off at 4 degrees) would mean that heater firing up numerous times through the night. Battery drain will be a major concern. If that cleaner hasn't off road parking, how will he bench charge his leisure battery?
There could be the other option of fitting a very expensive lithium-ion battery that will accept very fast charging with temperatures above freezing. But this could mean some alternator modifications plus the cost of the heater.
A propex gas heater requires a minimal amount of current to start it but probably uses a similar amount as a diesel heater with the fan running.
One of the local lads has on street parking only. He drains his pumps down at night during the winter and brings his hose reels inside. But we don't get the cold on the North East coast some experience futher inland.
Another further north insulated his tank and lagged the pipe from his tank to the pumps. He added 12v heat tracing cable between the pipe and lagging. When he started the van in the morning he switched this heat tracing cable on and it warmed the pipe enough to melt an ice in the pipe. He also drains his pumps down and at the same time pumps the water out of the pipe from his pump to his van port.
On a side note, I wonder if its a viable option to look into all these charging points for electric vehicles that are now becoming more widely available and make use of them.
i dont think a 9kw diesel heater that fires up for a few times over the course of a night would take THAT much out of the batteries if they are fully charged in the first place spruce.......i always have mine connected up to a "connect and forget" charger overnight though(2x 105ah numax batteries)plus i have my smart battery to battery charger when im driving about adding a bit of juice here and there....
-
The trouble with diesel heaters is that they use a fair amount of current to get started.
To keep a van above freezing (my electric froststat kicks in a 2 degrees and off at 4 degrees) would mean that heater firing up numerous times through the night. Battery drain will be a major concern. If that cleaner hasn't off road parking, how will he bench charge his leisure battery?
There could be the other option of fitting a very expensive lithium-ion battery that will accept very fast charging with temperatures above freezing. But this could mean some alternator modifications plus the cost of the heater.
A propex gas heater requires a minimal amount of current to start it but probably uses a similar amount as a diesel heater with the fan running.
One of the local lads has on street parking only. He drains his pumps down at night during the winter and brings his hose reels inside. But we don't get the cold on the North East coast some experience futher inland.
Another further north insulated his tank and lagged the pipe from his tank to the pumps. He added 12v heat tracing cable between the pipe and lagging. When he started the van in the morning he switched this heat tracing cable on and it warmed the pipe enough to melt an ice in the pipe. He also drains his pumps down and at the same time pumps the water out of the pipe from his pump to his van port.
On a side note, I wonder if its a viable option to look into all these charging points for electric vehicles that are now becoming more widely available and make use of them.
i dont think a 9kw diesel heater that fires up for a few times over the course of a night would take THAT much out of the batteries if they are fully charged in the first place spruce.......i always have mine connected up to a "connect and forget" charger overnight though(2x 105ah numax batteries)plus i have my smart battery to battery charger when im driving about adding a bit of juice here and there....
Lee 's post was about 'heating' a van during the winter nights when the driver only has on street parking. If you didn't have the facility to charge your batteries every night, how long would it be before both of your batteries are flat? All you have to do is take a little more out of each battery each day than your alternator puts back in and sooner or later both batteries will be discharged.
I can't help thinking that Lee's post is a prelude to launching his heater. ;D
-
Wabasto do diesel fired air heaters very similar to the 9kw hydroheat system we have in our vans , these are used as air heaters in camper vans , they are cheap to run on fuel and not as heavy on batteries as the 9kw version . We just rely on the frost stat setting and on the coldest nights I have only ever Hurd it kick in about 3 times a night fir about 10 muinits at a time , if using decent batteries and charging them properly it’s not a problem I have 400 amp s of battery power and can go a couple of days without charging if needs be and working 8 hours a day with two or three pumps running and the wabasto flat out all the time .
-
i always put my batteries on charge every night sean as a matter of course year round so it makes no difference......saves remembering to put a oil filled radiator in the back on really cold nights.......
this was one of the reason i opted for the heater so i dont have to faff about after work.... :)
-
I use hot air, collected from window cleaning forums.
-
i always put my batteries on charge every night sean as a matter of course year round so it makes no difference......saves remembering to put a oil filled radiator in the back on really cold nights.......
this was one of the reason i opted for the heater so i dont have to faff about after work.... :)
Not much faffing with a duvet Daz😂😂😂
-
I can't help thinking that Lee's post is a prelude to launching his heater. ;D
Of course it is.
Bit of a niche market aiming for just the people that can’t run a cable to the van, narrows the market big time.
I use one of these, had it in the van a whopping 2 nights last winter, does the job perfectly.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-st-52-241-e-freestanding-space-heater-2000w/8020P?tc=JT7&ds_kid=92700020969710038&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhOGl_7LJ4wIVCbTtCh0VXgMyEAQYAyABEgKvDvD_BwE
-
I am lucky enough to have a drive so can use a heater of one sort or another. I have two franchisees {one is my brother} and he has a first floor flat and parks the van round the corner.
On nights where the forecast is below -2/3 he takes the reel inside and covers the tank in polysterene and a duvet. The hose from tank to reel including the filter is lagged and the pump is wrapped in bubble wrap.
In the past four years he has only been unable to work twice.
In lee's position with 12? vans and growing, a prolonged cold snap of a week or two would be a major pain in the cashflow. One of my customers who sadly died last month used to have a nursery business {plants/flowers not kids.} I talked with him about keeping the van from freezing and he said a single 6o watt light bulb would do the job in a medium sized van. Maybe we are thinking we need more power/heat than we actually do.
-
Surely, with the profit margins we’re talking about with a multi van business (10 and above) a bespoke unit where vans could park inside would be an option?
Parking them bumper to bumper and In a system, you wouldn’t need as much space as you’d think.
-
thats what I currently do - its a ball ache because the first van back is not always the first van out - and yes they take up loads of room - I could save 2 thirds on rent if I parked outside
Darran
-
Darren how many vans you got ?
I have a crazy idea that might work
-
If I was unable to run power to my vehicle overnight (and tbh I would never live somewhere that this was the case) but let’s say there was just no choice, and I had to somehow prevent freezing...
On the evening, I would fill the van’s tank with HOT water. I’d buy a nice huge DI vessel, and run hot water (from the tap) through it. Combi boilers will usually heat water to about 62 degrees C. It will lose around 10 degrees in the transfer, so you’ll end up with a tank full of water at about 52 degrees.
The tank will radiate that heat in the van, and prevent any of the hoses from freezing.
With a 10 or 15 degree heat loss overnight, you’ll still have nice warm water for use the next day. Even if you just have luke warm water the next day, still far better than cold.
Of course, if you live in a hard water area, the resin cost will go up, but if it’s a choice between buying more resin and having the van freeze up, I know which I would choose. Plus, this is only an emergency solution on the handful of nights where sub-zero temps are forecast.
-
Immersion heater is great for this.
-
Darren how many vans you got ?
I have a crazy idea that might work
Set fire to one of them?
-
If I was unable to run power to my vehicle overnight (and tbh I would never live somewhere that this was the case) but let’s say there was just no choice, and I had to somehow prevent freezing...
On the evening, I would fill the van’s tank with HOT water. I’d buy a nice huge DI vessel, and run hot water (from the tap) through it. Combi boilers will usually heat water to about 62 degrees C. It will lose around 10 degrees in the transfer, so you’ll end up with a tank full of water at about 52 degrees.
The tank will radiate that heat in the van, and prevent any of the hoses from freezing.
With a 10 or 15 degree heat loss overnight, you’ll still have nice warm water for use the next day. Even if you just have luke warm water the next day, still far better than cold.
Of course, if you live in a hard water area, the resin cost will go up, but if it’s a choice between buying more resin and having the van freeze up, I know which I would choose. Plus, this is only an emergency solution on the handful of nights where sub-zero temps are forecast.
You cannot put hot water through resin it kills it
-
Immersion heater is great for this.
Yes , but how do you propose to operate an immersion heater without running a cable to the van (as per the original question)?
-
You cannot put hot water through resin it kills it
Sorry to be contrary, but yes you can, I have done it.
It uses the resin up faster, but it still purifies the water just fine.
Remember, this is not intended as a permanent solution, just as a way of preventing freezing for a couple of days.
-
Darren how many vans you got ?
I have a crazy idea that might work
Set fire to one of them?
Oi!!!!!.
mind you I had to use the old Citroen dispatch today - no zircon ugh!
-
Darren how many vans you got ?
I have a crazy idea that might work
six mate
-
Immersion heater is great for this.
Sorry - the thread was for people WITHOUT access to electricity
However I quite like the idea of 'camping posts' where each van could hook up in a yard ( then I would use oil filled radiators )
thats food for thought
Darran
-
An alternate option would be an insulated tank and immersion heater, We have developed a unit to manage an immersion heater, http://springltd.co/v11m-ihc-tp
The problem Ian is with those who can only park in the street, sometimes a bit away from their house/flat.
Fair point, IHC is an option but yes it wil need a power supply
-
You cannot put hot water through resin it kills it
Sorry to be contrary, but yes you can, I have done it.
It uses the resin up faster, but it still purifies the water just fine.
Remember, this is not intended as a permanent solution, just as a way of preventing freezing for a couple of days.
Have you got a link to prove that hot water kills the resin and and what temperature does it start at.
-
My van is parked in the drive and I've only ever used sleeping bags and I've never had a problem yet. I know it wouldn't withstand a winter 2010 event but then none of us would be working and would have the equipment drained of water anyway if that occured again.
I just make sure to cover everything that will hold water, drain any hoses which can be easily detached from the resin etc and I bring the poles, reels, cloths into the garage.
Nothing fancy but I assure you it works a treat.
I've saw occasions where I've left brush heads and cloths in the van and they've been brick hard with frost but everything covered up with sleeping bags was 100%.
-
You cannot put hot water through resin it kills it
Sorry to be contrary, but yes you can, I have done it.
It uses the resin up faster, but it still purifies the water just fine.
Remember, this is not intended as a permanent solution, just as a way of preventing freezing for a couple of days.
Have you got a link to prove that hot water kills the resin and and what temperature does it start at.
I don’t have a link no only repeating what I was told by two leading wfp manufacturers who build and sell hot systems
-
My van is parked in the drive and I've only ever used sleeping bags and I've never had a problem yet. I know it wouldn't withstand a winter 2010 event but then none of us would be working and would have the equipment drained of water anyway if that occured again.
I just make sure to cover everything that will hold water, drain any hoses which can be easily detached from the resin etc and I bring the poles, reels, cloths into the garage.
Nothing fancy but I assure you it works a treat.
I've saw occasions where I've left brush heads and cloths in the van and they've been brick hard with frost but everything covered up with sleeping bags was 100%.
My van has been parked on the drive for years.
In 2010 the most I ever needed was a £20 fan heater from Argos.
That's it👍
-
My van is parked in the drive and I've only ever used sleeping bags and I've never had a problem yet. I know it wouldn't withstand a winter 2010 event but then none of us would be working and would have the equipment drained of water anyway if that occured again.
I just make sure to cover everything that will hold water, drain any hoses which can be easily detached from the resin etc and I bring the poles, reels, cloths into the garage.
Nothing fancy but I assure you it works a treat.
I've saw occasions where I've left brush heads and cloths in the van and they've been brick hard with frost but everything covered up with sleeping bags was 100%.
My van has been parked on the drive for years.
In 2010 the most I ever needed was a £20 fan heater from Argos.
That's it👍
and did this fan heater require electricity ?
Darran
-
My van is parked in the drive and I've only ever used sleeping bags and I've never had a problem yet. I know it wouldn't withstand a winter 2010 event but then none of us would be working and would have the equipment drained of water anyway if that occured again.
I just make sure to cover everything that will hold water, drain any hoses which can be easily detached from the resin etc and I bring the poles, reels, cloths into the garage.
Nothing fancy but I assure you it works a treat.
I've saw occasions where I've left brush heads and cloths in the van and they've been brick hard with frost but everything covered up with sleeping bags was 100%.
My van has been parked on the drive for years.
In 2010 the most I ever needed was a £20 fan heater from Argos.
That's it👍
and did this fan heater require electricity ?
Darran
You are correct, this thread is about those without electricity available.
For those that do have access to an electrical connection a £20 heater should do
Those without use a duvet😉😉
-
You cannot put hot water through resin it kills it
Sorry to be contrary, but yes you can, I have done it.
It uses the resin up faster, but it still purifies the water just fine.
Remember, this is not intended as a permanent solution, just as a way of preventing freezing for a couple of days.
Have you got a link to prove that hot water kills the resin and and what temperature does it start at.
I don’t have a link no only repeating what I was told by two leading wfp manufacturers who build and sell hot systems
Nothing personal but I'll take that as inconclusive :)
-
You could always try it yourself.
-
I think resin is made from plastic (polystyrene) so I guess hot water may well ruin it if warm enough.
-
A customer of mine who is a retired scientist that worked in the nuclear industry told me that water up to 40 degrees Celsius would be fine. I use an immersion during the winter and have had no problems .
-
I have about 1 metre of hose from the tank outlet, through pump, upto hose reel, that's it. That 1 metre is lagged.
I drain it and cover everything with a duvet. I made a pump box so it's all enclosed. Pole comes indoors.
In severe weather, I use a camping heater for about 20mins, just to make sure everything is warm and supple.
Job done.
-
My van is parked in the drive and I've only ever used sleeping bags and I've never had a problem yet. I know it wouldn't withstand a winter 2010 event but then none of us would be working and would have the equipment drained of water anyway if that occured again.
I just make sure to cover everything that will hold water, drain any hoses which can be easily detached from the resin etc and I bring the poles, reels, cloths into the garage.
Nothing fancy but I assure you it works a treat.
I've saw occasions where I've left brush heads and cloths in the van and they've been brick hard with frost but everything covered up with sleeping bags was 100%.
You must be in a different climate to me. Remember Britain is quite varied. In Scotland we regularly get -5 nights in the winter, and it takes till Lunch time to get anywhere near to 0.
A duvet wouldn’t suffice.
That’s why I use a grippatank hot water setup. Love it.
I don’t require power either for a couple of days as the battery to battery charger takes care of it.
I connect it to the mains to charge up though to be safe.
Having no access to electricity at home as a window cleaner would be a right pain.