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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on January 08, 2019, 06:44:17 pm

Title: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 08, 2019, 06:44:17 pm
and enforcement for not turning your engine off while stuck in traffic? ::)roll

what about keeping my batteries charging for my diesel heater......and my heated driver seat.....

thoughts chaps.......
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 08, 2019, 06:47:08 pm
if anyone tapped on my window to tell me to turn my engine off(esp in the cold winter months) would get the middle finger! ;D
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on January 08, 2019, 06:47:35 pm
Challange it.   Frost protection and equipment charging is the same as keeping a fridge cold on a food truck who woukd need to keep engine on.  Same with a cement mixer or ice creem van.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 08, 2019, 06:51:43 pm
some little hitler is bound to try and tell an ambulance driver to turn his engine off too! ;D
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Don Kee on January 08, 2019, 07:01:29 pm
When you say “traffic”, what do you mean?

Sat on a ring road, or traffic lights should be fine; sat on the side of the road massaging your ball sack whilst drinking a protein shake is ‘parked’ and technically you’d be bang to rights.
Never really heard of it being enforced though...
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 08, 2019, 07:22:28 pm
i always leave my engine running at lunchtime too....in winter to keep warm and in summer to keep cool as well as putting a bit more juice into my 2 leisure batteries at the same time........i also leave my diesel heater on in the colder months.......

environmental disaster zone.......... ;D
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: jonboywalton75 on January 08, 2019, 07:34:32 pm
i always leave my engine running at lunchtime too....in winter to keep warm and in summer to keep cool as well as putting a bit more juice into my 2 leisure batteries at the same time........i also leave my diesel heater on in the colder months.......

environmental disaster zone.......... ;D

Woah Daz
I'm agreeing with you again
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Cookie on January 08, 2019, 07:49:31 pm
i always leave my engine running at lunchtime too....in winter to keep warm and in summer to keep cool as well as putting a bit more juice into my 2 leisure batteries at the same time........i also leave my diesel heater on in the colder months.......

Sounds like you're becoming a bit of a softie Daz  ;D
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: John Mart on January 08, 2019, 08:19:41 pm
When you say “traffic”, what do you mean?

Sat on a ring road, or traffic lights should be fine; sat on the side of the road massaging your ball sack whilst drinking a protein shake is ‘parked’ and technically you’d be bang to rights.
Never really heard of it being enforced though...
The word used is idling “unnecessarily”. To keep warm/cool or to get a charge into a leisure battery would arguably be “necessary.”
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Don Kee on January 08, 2019, 09:55:05 pm
When you say “traffic”, what do you mean?

Sat on a ring road, or traffic lights should be fine; sat on the side of the road massaging your ball sack whilst drinking a protein shake is ‘parked’ and technically you’d be bang to rights.
Never really heard of it being enforced though...
The word used is idling “unnecessarily”. To keep warm/cool or to get a charge into a leisure battery would arguably be “necessary.”

You realise I’m not the person that gave Daz the ticket, right?
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: John Mart on January 09, 2019, 02:08:44 am
When you say “traffic”, what do you mean?

Sat on a ring road, or traffic lights should be fine; sat on the side of the road massaging your ball sack whilst drinking a protein shake is ‘parked’ and technically you’d be bang to rights.
Never really heard of it being enforced though...
The word used is idling “unnecessarily”. To keep warm/cool or to get a charge into a leisure battery would arguably be “necessary.”

You realise I’m not the person that gave Daz the ticket, right?
You’re the one that said “bang to rights”.  ;)
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Elfyn on January 09, 2019, 07:37:28 am
My van automatically turns the engine off when stoped in traffic. It re-starts when I push the clutch in to go into gear.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Stoots on January 09, 2019, 07:38:37 am
I would contest it on the grounds that it was needed for business, i.e charginf battery and hot water.

I would be very surprised if they didnt make exceptions for that.

I read somewhere that a refridgerated van would not get done for idling, seems like the same thing.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 09, 2019, 08:02:35 am
My van automatically turns the engine off when stoped in traffic. It re-starts when I push the clutch in to go into gear.

so does mine but ive turned it off..... ;)
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 09, 2019, 08:11:52 am
manchester are thinking of imposing tariffs for diesel vehicle drivers,not just in manchester city centre  either,all AROUND THE REGION.......including ALL commercial vehicles..... ::)roll

the thing is if there was a practical cleaner alternative (as in affordable electric vans)we would all be buying them but their isnt at the moment....so i think its very unfair......

it wasnt that long ago when the motor industry were promoting diesel vehicles as the best vehicles to lease/purchase......
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on January 09, 2019, 08:16:40 am
Regarding the £20 Fixed Penalty ...

"But this is only imposed if the driver fails to turn off their engine when asked to do so ... "

Exemptions are when defrosting a windscreen and on private land. If it's cold/hot and you need to charge your batteries sit in a supermarket car park.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: John Mart on January 09, 2019, 08:24:39 am
Regarding the £20 Fixed Penalty ...

"But this is only imposed if the driver fails to turn off their engine when asked to do so ... "

Exemptions are when defrosting a windscreen and on private land. If it's cold/hot and you need to charge your batteries sit in a supermarket car park.
My quote was from the Highway Code. Where’s yours from?
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: deeege on January 09, 2019, 10:05:25 am
manchester are thinking of imposing tariffs for diesel vehicle drivers,not just in manchester city centre  either,all AROUND THE REGION.......including ALL commercial vehicles..... ::)roll

It’s a good job you work in leafy affluent Cheshire then Daz, and not in industrial Salford. 😂

Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: John Mart on January 09, 2019, 11:52:45 am
"You MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road. Generally, if the vehicle is stationary and is likely to remain so for more than a couple of minutes, you should apply the parking brake and switch off the engine to reduce emissions and noise pollution. However it is permissible to leave the engine running if the vehicle is stationary in traffic or for diagnosing faults."

So I think that if you receive a ticket, you could appeal if it was very hot or very cold or in order to charge a battery for work. But it may be different if there's a separate by-law.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: G Griffin on January 09, 2019, 01:52:43 pm
What about your lights when stuck in traffic?
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Slacky on January 09, 2019, 02:21:49 pm
What sort of a numpty would you have to be to leave a running works vehicle unattended on the highway?
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Walter Mitty on January 09, 2019, 03:23:24 pm
What sort of a numpty would you have to be to leave a running works vehicle unattended on the highway?

Numpty alert:  I was only doing that today :) .  It's not a habit but it looks like my leisure battery is giving up the ghost.  It's been giving me a warning for several days now but I thought it was just airlocks.  Because I had plenty of drive-betweens the problem was partly hidden.  Today's work was more compact.  So I had the engine running while I sat in the van for a break today, and for the short time I was cleaning the fronts.  I switched it off and removed the key before going around the backs though.  It gave me enough juice to get finished.  Battery now on charge and will buy a replacement tomorrow in case the charging doesn't give me what I want.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 09, 2019, 06:28:50 pm
if a battery is below par then the cold weather will find it out.......
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dd on January 09, 2019, 10:45:37 pm
If your batteries are well charged before you go to work you should not need to charge them during your lunch break. Remember Daz "You only work part time" anyway.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Walter Mitty on January 09, 2019, 11:18:02 pm
If your batteries are well charged before you go to work you should not need to charge them during your lunch break. Remember Daz "You only work part time" anyway.

Remember, everyone's circumstances are different.  Carrying a battery up steps to a flat when I have to park at least 200 yards from home isn't ideal.  If my circumstances were different, I would put it on top-up charge most nights even though I have a split charge relay fitted.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Slacky on January 10, 2019, 07:52:51 am
Thats the thing on here, we become obsessed about improving our own individual setups and forget others situations are different to ours....
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 10, 2019, 08:58:50 am
If your batteries are well charged before you go to work you should not need to charge them during your lunch break. Remember Daz "You only work part time" anyway.

i use a diesel heater on full blast 6 or 7 hours a day,these are heavy on the batteries,i also have an electric reel so a little top up at lunchtime doesnt do the batteries any harm....

remember the less you discharge your batteries day to day the longer they will last......

i also charge them up overnight  every night too..... ;)
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dd on January 10, 2019, 04:51:24 pm
Not sure it is really a battery issue with Daz though, because he used to idle his engine during lunchbreak before his hot system and electric reel.

I think if everyone treated the environment more sympathetically than there own personal comfort, the world would be a better place. I find it annoying when people selfishly disregard the world we live in.

Rant over.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 10, 2019, 04:55:58 pm
Not sure it is really a battery issue with Daz though, because he used to idle his engine during lunchbreak before his hot system and electric reel.

I think if everyone treated the environment more sympathetically than there own personal comfort, the world would be a better place. I find it annoying when people selfishly disregard the world we live in.

Rant over.

so do you sit in a cold van in this weather at lunchtime with the engine off?....didnt think so..... ;D

on a hot summers day the air con is a godsend at lunchtime for a 30 min cool off! 8)
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dd on January 10, 2019, 05:05:41 pm
Yes Daz I do you Big Pansy.

Thing is it is cold outside so I wear warm clothing, so sitting in a cold van is not a problem.
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on January 10, 2019, 05:21:01 pm
In answer to 8 weekly ...

Leaving an engine idling is an offence

"Stationary idling is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988," says Jeanette Miller, managing director of Geoffrey Miller Solicitors.

The Act enforces rule 123 of the Highway Code, which states: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."


"Doing this can incur a £20 fixed-penalty fine under the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) Regulations 2002. This goes up to £40 if unpaid within a given time frame.

But this is only imposed if the driver fails to turn off their engine when asked to do so by a marshal.

Of course, it doesn't mean you've got to cut your engine at every red light. You’re allowed to leave your engine running if you're stationary in traffic, diagnosing faults or defrosting your windshield."
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dazmond on January 10, 2019, 06:06:41 pm
Yes Daz I do you Big Pansy.

Thing is it is cold outside so I wear warm clothing, so sitting in a cold van is not a problem.

what van do you drive?if its an older one then its probably more polluting than mine(mines a euro 6 engine)also i do very little mileage so less polluting than someone who drives 40 miles a day just to get to and from work......

if they brought out a decent electric van at a reasonable price with the right payload id buy one but it doesnt exist at the moment....
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Johnny B on January 10, 2019, 06:51:07 pm
I drive an older van (2005 Berlingo) with 200,000 + kms on the clock. When it went for its last CVRT test (Irish MOT for commercial vehicles) the emissions were almost zero.

John
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: dd on January 10, 2019, 07:38:23 pm
Yes Daz I do you Big Pansy.

Thing is it is cold outside so I wear warm clothing, so sitting in a cold van is not a problem.

what van do you drive?if its an older one then its probably more polluting than mine(mines a euro 6 engine)also i do very little mileage so less polluting than someone who drives 40 miles a day just to get to and from work......

if they brought out a decent electric van at a reasonable price with the right payload id buy one but it doesnt exist at the moment....
I have no wish to insult you or give you a hard time Daz but...

you started a topic merely to complain about a law that is designed to protect the environment (what seems to me a perfectly reasonable law).
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: P @ F on January 10, 2019, 08:43:53 pm
I agree , thats why i didnt idle for six straight hours today , my diesel heater was full pelt all day , and it only used 400 ml of diesel per hour .
I started with about 30 degree water and finished with about 45 degree , I also got home with my single 85 amp battery fully charged , not bad considering its used to power the pump and start the van  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Spruce on January 10, 2019, 10:24:00 pm
I agree , thats why i didnt idle for six straight hours today , my diesel heater was full pelt all day , and it only used 400 ml of diesel per hour .
I started with about 30 degree water and finished with about 45 degree , I also got home with my single 85 amp battery fully charged , not bad considering its used to power the pump and start the van  ;D ;D ;D

I'm really struggling to believe you.  ;D

We need photos!
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: P @ F on January 11, 2019, 12:00:13 am
Honest Spruce

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1547164801_3B045BEB-B650-4386-94C3-AD2198D27FE3.png)
Title: Re: fixed penalty for idling?
Post by: Walter Mitty on January 11, 2019, 12:18:51 am
Yes Daz I do you Big Pansy.

Thing is it is cold outside so I wear warm clothing, so sitting in a cold van is not a problem.

what van do you drive?if its an older one then its probably more polluting than mine(mines a euro 6 engine)also i do very little mileage so less polluting than someone who drives 40 miles a day just to get to and from work......

if they brought out a decent electric van at a reasonable price with the right payload id buy one but it doesnt exist at the moment....
I have no wish to insult you or give you a hard time Daz but...

you started a topic merely to complain about a law that is designed to protect the environment (what seems to me a perfectly reasonable law).

Yes, it is a reasonable law, which also contains the word 'unnecessarily'.  As far as the battery charging goes, it's pollution at the van or pollution at the power station, because it will use electricity to charge at home.  I would agree though that pollution at the power station can be more easily channelled.