Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jo5hm4n on December 18, 2018, 05:12:43 pm
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Okay so i need some honest feedback from you lovely lot on here.
My first full time employee has been working with me for just over a year. It's been a bit of a learning curve but overall i would say he is a good employee. He works hard and long hours, never turns up late, has a good attitude and a great work ethic and is fully understanding of how i need to run my business and he is totally honest which above all else is very important to me. There has been a few issues in the past where his technique was not up to standard, and he was occasionally missing simple things that can often make a difference, this was more in the early days the first 2-3 months of him working. He has improved alot and as of July this year he has been going out in my main van by himself.
I was reluctant to send him out alone because i am a control freak and i was terrified that somehow he would crash the van or upset customers and do a bad job! Generally speaking none of those things have happened and actually i am quite happy with the general arrangement we have going.
The problems though have started in the last 3-4 months. We have had a total of 8 complaints. Lost atleast 3 if not 4 customers out of those complaints, the others have generally been resolved. My first problem is how do you validate complaints when you are no longer out doing the job? I need to listen to what the customer has to say, and then find out from my employee whats happened. Ive had complaints in the past personally which were not valid. I.e customer complaining about quality, but it turned out there inside windows were dirty, or they had perished rubber seals around glass or window units where blown etc.
How can i validate complaints to the best of my ability before passing judgement that my employee has infact done a sub par job?
Some of these complaints where we lost the customer, i validated the complaints personally and could tell that the customer was extremely picky, however other complaints it was obvious that my employee had done a sub par job. Most complaints where either, the odd window had runs or streaks (kitchen or living room most common) or the odd sill was missed and still had bits on it.
The problem i have is that 95% of my customers to the best of my ability are very happy with my employee. I regularly get texts or phone calls praising my employee saying they think he does a great job. Even today had several customers say how happy they always are with the service by my employee.
So the inconsistency is confusing me. Alot of customers praising my employee whilst out of a customer base of around 500 customers we are averaging 2-3 complaints a month in last 3-4 months.
I told my employee that as he was working alone by himself he would naturally have to speed things up. I need my employee to bring in around £250 a day in my eyes to make it worthwhile having him out in the van by himself. I am wondering if some of these complaints are because he is slightly rushing around to make sure these targets are hit every day and because of this quality sometimes dips, and in most cases 90%+ of customers dont care as they are not extremely picky. Its the picky ones who are complaining generally.
Now i am worried, if i tell my employee he needs to slow down a bit and be extra careful this will result in him doing about 20-25% less work per day. Quality will increase but then he will only be doing £200 of work per day, as opposed to £250.
So one part of me is thinking right all that matters is that we are offering a service of perfection, but in doing so we will be doing alot less work per day, and another part of me is saying, i am running a business here i need to make money above all else or everything is pointless, if we have to sacrifice a small minor part of quality in order to make more money, there is a part of me that is okay with that.
I know a few windies that do £200 a day solo and do a perfect job, absolutely 100%. However i know a few windies that are doing £300-£350 a day, and they are not perfect, they are a wee bit splash and dash, but 90% of customers dont even notice or seem to care. I even know a guy who does £350 a day 4 days a week based in north wales where this is very hard to achieve all domestic. He gets complaints atleast 4 or 5 a month. But he does not care, because he brings in new customers faster than ones he loses, so he is happy to sacrifice quality in order to have more money from his business and provide for his family more. Thoughts?
So what is the best way to be? I can't decide.
As i am trying to grow my business though with employees i need to make sure there is some quality control, really could do with some advice. I dont want to be getting a bad name from complaints ofcourse.
I haven't sat down with my employee yet and had a proper heart to heart as i dont know what the best way to resolve this is. I want to sit down before christmas and sort this out, so we can have a clean start for January 2019 firm in our resolve.
throw your thoughts at me guys, i am especially interested from those who have employees who can understand what i am going through.
Thanks
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You get 2 or 3 moans a month from 500 jobs , you need to chill mate especially as its not you doing it , just keep an eye on it and look to get 5 new jobs a month yourself .
When I had workers it was 2 or 3 calls a week , I had a problem not you !
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I don't have any employees so I can't advise to much. However with over 10 years using wfp one thing is very clear, you cannot clean every window the same.
This probably explains your employees inconsistency, the vast majority of windows on houses can be cleaned in the 'normal' wfp way. There are also those that need a different technique due to problem openers, leaky rubber seals, degrading timber frames etc.
As an employee I'm not sure he would be willing, or even care to take note of which houses or windows need that bit of extra time to get right. Hence the complaints.
How you handle it is completely down to your own ethos.
Are you money driven or quality driven?
Finding that middle ground is very difficult and is the main reason I stopped my brief flirt into employing.
I don't think you will ever find the perfect employee to be honest, their heart won't be in it. Working out in the cold, wind and rain to make money for someone else isn't an ideal situation in anyone's mind, unless your earning megabucks.
As an employer I think you have to give him a little leeway and expect the odd complaint, it's just the way it is.
Perhaps a bonus scheme for completion of work and no complaints each month would go some way to making him more interested.
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He's never going to be 'perfect', no one is!
You just have to decide where you want to 'draw the line'.
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What both the above have said is correct. As a one man band you know exactly what to do on every job to satisfy the customer. On houses there will be the odd window that runs.
I reckon each employee gets about a complaint a month. I just say no problem and send them back.
You can’t hold on to really picky customers with staff unless you’re dirt cheap.
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I was way too picky when employing to be honest , it had to be done right every time .
I used to chuck dolly out the pram every night the second van came home with the hose not layered right !
It was never gonna work was it ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Some customers probably don’t like the fact it’s an employee cleaning their windows as they have been use to you and only want you to clean them so will complain about everything!
I had that a few years ago when staff started taking over my work.
Also we have noticed more unjustified complaints lately as an excuse to cancel
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Some customers probably don’t like the fact it’s an employee cleaning their windows as they have been use to you and only want you to clean them so will complain about everything!
I had that a few years ago when staff started taking over my work.
Also we have noticed more unjustified complaints lately as an excuse to cancel
Yes but look at your staff Stu , bodgers of the highest order , I think I remember employing one of them before he defected to the Dark Side ;D ;D ;D
Joking aside though he was the best worker I had before you poached him ya snake ;D ;D ;D
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You can have him back!! ;D
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You can have him back!! ;D
I couldnt afford him now mate , he's in with the Big Boys aint he ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You can send yer wife over if you like , I might have some work for her ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Pretty much all good points made so far,
from my experience there are a number of customers that will create when they start getting an employee and NOT the boss, however over time this problem fades away as people realise the staff do a good job, and 6 years down the line many customers don't even know I used to clean windows and having a staff member is the NORM
Your concerns are valid, but hers one of the things that will make or break your venture into employing, and that's taking a step back - look at the bigger picture and decide what's important - it would be good to tighten up the complaints to say 1 per month - but even at 2 to 3 this is nothing percentage wise
unless it becomes a real problem where your looking at a weekly complaint - I wouldn't even go round validating the complaint - just send him back to re clean - the proviso is( if you think it would work is ) after 3 complaints in any 4 week period he has to reclean on his own time ( unless he can prove there was an issue outside his control )
Basically the guy is going a great job - bringing you in turnover - your van gets seen more often and generates more work and hey ho he gets it wrong from time to time - who doesn't - he also gets lots of positives as well
DONT OVERTHINK THIS!
Darran
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Don't worry about only a few customer complaints you will sometimes get them just because they (the customer)are having a bad day ;D I wouldn't go overboard with you employee as it sounds like he's doing well and you need to know the substance and cause of these complaints before you discuss it. I would begin by logging all customer complaints as you receive them investigating the cause and look for trends if it's complaints all down to your employees cleaning then address it if it's just picky customers and your taking on enough new work I would not worry too much about it. ;D
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I try to make my employee take ownership of his mistakes. So if I feel the complaint is justified he has to go back and reclean. I have asked him to apologies and deal with the complaint on occasions as well. Not being lazy but I think they’ve got to learn not to hide behind you. If they had lost the customer , I’d ask him to go out and get me another one!! Probably makes me sound harsh but I think it’s fair and he gets lots of extra bonus’s when it’s anything over the normal working day
Three complaints a month isn’t so bad but I wouldn’t want any more
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Totaly agree with saj and Darran customers want the boss not the employee turning up I had similar situation , I explained to the customers I cannot do everything , I did dump a couple of customers as they complained every time ,I went round and had a look and asked the customer to show me the problem, only on one or two occasions was there a genuine problem , again this was down to the employees using the wrong technique for the type of window which has since been resolved . We all get things wrong and I also have had the occasional complaint , no employee is going to be as good as the company owner that’s just a fact of life . To try and improve speed and quality is it possible to offer him a bonus of some sort if there are no genuine complaints the month ? Just a thought
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Like you said your best option might be getting a higher turnover of new work coming in constantly and smashing through it at 95% rather than trying to do less and do it 100%
Striving for perfection with employees is futile. Guy who worked with me missed two windows last week and thats whilst i was doing the front ::)roll oh i didnt see that one, oh i cant reach that one.....
have you done that velux at the back ? which velux ?...... :-\
Employees will get complaints but you have to look at the big picture and factor in losing the odd custy in your business plan.
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One of the downsides of WFP is you could do everything right and still leave a run mark on a window, the difference is being my own boss I can spend a little more time faffing about to get a problem window right and if needs be decide its not worth the hassle and get rid of the job, an employee with targets to meet doesn't have that luxury.
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I think its already been mentioned, but I will also say it.
You have to expect the quality to dip a bit if you employ.
You have to expect the customer who has been used to you doing the windows for 10 years and is looking forward to seeing you and giving you a bit of cake..(.ok..going too far...but you understand where i am coming from?) probably feels a bit dejected and will have a hawk eye on your employee...
You are changing your job, your no longer the window cleaner that ensures that the job is done and the customer pays. You are the boss that ensures expectations are met on both sides..and its not easy to do.
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That and up your prices.
Our guys can do £300 a day at a steady pace, no need to rush and make mistakes.
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You get 2 or 3 moans a month from 500 jobs , you need to chill mate especially as its not you doing it , just keep an eye on it and look to get 5 new jobs a month yourself .
When I had workers it was 2 or 3 calls a week , I had a problem not you !
Wow this really puts my problem into perspective! Glad it is not just me and it is realistic part of having employees! For one i will make sure we are taking on atleast 5 new jobs every month without fail.
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I don't have any employees so I can't advise to much. However with over 10 years using wfp one thing is very clear, you cannot clean every window the same.
This probably explains your employees inconsistency, the vast majority of windows on houses can be cleaned in the 'normal' wfp way. There are also those that need a different technique due to problem openers, leaky rubber seals, degrading timber frames etc.
As an employee I'm not sure he would be willing, or even care to take note of which houses or windows need that bit of extra time to get right. Hence the complaints.
How you handle it is completely down to your own ethos.
Are you money driven or quality driven?
Finding that middle ground is very difficult and is the main reason I stopped my brief flirt into employing.
I don't think you will ever find the perfect employee to be honest, their heart won't be in it. Working out in the cold, wind and rain to make money for someone else isn't an ideal situation in anyone's mind, unless your earning megabucks.
As an employer I think you have to give him a little leeway and expect the odd complaint, it's just the way it is.
Perhaps a bonus scheme for completion of work and no complaints each month would go some way to making him more interested.
You are right not every window is the same. My employee remembers this for certain jobs but definitely not all jobs. I think it is really hard to make an employee take that much notice to be perfect at everything, often i reckon they just work on autopilot, it is not their business so they will not notice things that you will.
I have a bonus scheme in place, but no forfeits for valid complaints. This i will need to rethink.
I am driven more by money than quality. I want both equally but not sure if that is possible. At the end of the day i am trying to run a business not a charity, so money does need to come first to some level of extent.
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What both the above have said is correct. As a one man band you know exactly what to do on every job to satisfy the customer. On houses there will be the odd window that runs.
I reckon each employee gets about a complaint a month. I just say no problem and send them back.
You can’t hold on to really picky customers with staff unless you’re dirt cheap.
So are you saying that generally with employees its best not to have picky customers. The picky customers were okay when it was me cleaning but now employee is doing them, in their eyes standards are not good enough. Personally i would prefer to ditch all picky customers if employees are the ones going out doing all work.
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Some customers probably don’t like the fact it’s an employee cleaning their windows as they have been use to you and only want you to clean them so will complain about everything!
I had that a few years ago when staff started taking over my work.
Also we have noticed more unjustified complaints lately as an excuse to cancel
How do you validate those unjustified complaints to cancel? I have a strong feeling atleast 2 of the recent complaints where just an excuses to cancel. What would you say is best way to feel the customer out regarding the complaint.
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Pretty much all good points made so far,
from my experience there are a number of customers that will create when they start getting an employee and NOT the boss, however over time this problem fades away as people realise the staff do a good job, and 6 years down the line many customers don't even know I used to clean windows and having a staff member is the NORM
Your concerns are valid, but hers one of the things that will make or break your venture into employing, and that's taking a step back - look at the bigger picture and decide what's important - it would be good to tighten up the complaints to say 1 per month - but even at 2 to 3 this is nothing percentage wise
unless it becomes a real problem where your looking at a weekly complaint - I wouldn't even go round validating the complaint - just send him back to re clean - the proviso is( if you think it would work is ) after 3 complaints in any 4 week period he has to reclean on his own time ( unless he can prove there was an issue outside his control )
Basically the guy is going a great job - bringing you in turnover - your van gets seen more often and generates more work and hey ho he gets it wrong from time to time - who doesn't - he also gets lots of positives as well
DONT OVERTHINK THIS!
Darran
Darran, superb advice thanks very much. It is good for me to know that it is not just me who has experienced this. I will try to get the complaints down to a max of 2 or 3 per month and send back to reclean. As you say percentage wise it is nothing really, this is what i was worried about initially.
Handling complaints. So one customer who complained right, is 45 minutes away from our base. He was cleaned on the last day we were in this area for another whole month. How would you handle this complaint. Would you send your employee back on a 1 hour 30 mins roundtrip just to justify 1 customer and complaint? Customer price is £14. In my head i could not justify this, so i told the customer he would get a free clean this month as he wasnt happy and next month half price clean. In my eyes this was better than wasting 90 minutes of driving one of my vehicles wasted fuel wages etc...
What do you think?
Im trying to find the best way to handle complaints without ping off the customer. Need to make sure i handle it professionally as possible.
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Like you said your best option might be getting a higher turnover of new work coming in constantly and smashing through it at 95% rather than trying to do less and do it 100%
Striving for perfection with employees is futile. Guy who worked with me missed two windows last week and thats whilst i was doing the front ::)roll oh i didnt see that one, oh i cant reach that one.....
have you done that velux at the back ? which velux ?...... :-\
Employees will get complaints but you have to look at the big picture and factor in losing the odd custy in your business plan.
This is exactly what i mean. Employees are never going to be as good or consistent as the boss. I am trying to factor in my mind what is acceptable and what isnt acceptable. My main objective is just to make sure we have lots more new work coming in then any work we lose from odd complaints or really fussy customers which too be honest i dont want anyway. Just gives me stress knowing some customers are literally watching my employees every move because they dont trust anybody lol.
Trying to find the middle ground! Will do alot of thinking over the christmas period and also have a sit down chat with my employee just so he knows whats going on.
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I think its already been mentioned, but I will also say it.
You have to expect the quality to dip a bit if you employ.
You have to expect the customer who has been used to you doing the windows for 10 years and is looking forward to seeing you and giving you a bit of cake..(.ok..going too far...but you understand where i am coming from?) probably feels a bit dejected and will have a hawk eye on your employee...
You are changing your job, your no longer the window cleaner that ensures that the job is done and the customer pays. You are the boss that ensures expectations are met on both sides..and its not easy to do.
Expectations are met on both sides. This is a very good point. That is what i am trying to do. Making sure we do a good job, but also that customer isnt expecting perfection now that i the boss am no longer doing the cleaning and going overboard on every job. Employees i think most of them just wont be able to fully do this.
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That and up your prices.
Our guys can do £300 a day at a steady pace, no need to rush and make mistakes.
good point. If i up my prices by 10-20% if nothing else employee can spend a bit more time at each job and we lose no income.
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I think when a lot of us start out on own we are overcleaning a lot of the jobs and spend too long doing them as we are out to impress this is what the customer then perceives is the norm and when we change things that's when the complaints start ;D
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Like you said your best option might be getting a higher turnover of new work coming in constantly and smashing through it at 95% rather than trying to do less and do it 100%
Striving for perfection with employees is futile. Guy who worked with me missed two windows last week and thats whilst i was doing the front ::)roll oh i didnt see that one, oh i cant reach that one.....
have you done that velux at the back ? which velux ?...... :-\
Employees will get complaints but you have to look at the big picture and factor in losing the odd custy in your business plan.
This is exactly what i mean. Employees are never going to be as good or consistent as the boss. I am trying to factor in my mind what is acceptable and what isnt acceptable. My main objective is just to make sure we have lots more new work coming in then any work we lose from odd complaints or really fussy customers which too be honest i dont want anyway. Just gives me stress knowing some customers are literally watching my employees every move because they dont trust anybody lol.
Trying to find the middle ground! Will do alot of thinking over the christmas period and also have a sit down chat with my employee just so he knows whats going on.
Rather than worry about getting more complaints, do the opposite and worry about increasing turnover to offset the increased losses, so do more work and charge higher prices.....increase turnover more than losses and voila...more profit.
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Pretty much all good points made so far,
from my experience there are a number of customers that will create when they start getting an employee and NOT the boss, however over time this problem fades away as people realise the staff do a good job, and 6 years down the line many customers don't even know I used to clean windows and having a staff member is the NORM
Your concerns are valid, but hers one of the things that will make or break your venture into employing, and that's taking a step back - look at the bigger picture and decide what's important - it would be good to tighten up the complaints to say 1 per month - but even at 2 to 3 this is nothing percentage wise
unless it becomes a real problem where your looking at a weekly complaint - I wouldn't even go round validating the complaint - just send him back to re clean - the proviso is( if you think it would work is ) after 3 complaints in any 4 week period he has to reclean on his own time ( unless he can prove there was an issue outside his control )
Basically the guy is going a great job - bringing you in turnover - your van gets seen more often and generates more work and hey ho he gets it wrong from time to time - who doesn't - he also gets lots of positives as well
DONT OVERTHINK THIS!
Darran
Darran, superb advice thanks very much. It is good for me to know that it is not just me who has experienced this. I will try to get the complaints down to a max of 2 or 3 per month and send back to reclean. As you say percentage wise it is nothing really, this is what i was worried about initially.
Handling complaints. So one customer who complained right, is 45 minutes away from our base. He was cleaned on the last day we were in this area for another whole month. How would you handle this complaint. Would you send your employee back on a 1 hour 30 mins roundtrip just to justify 1 customer and complaint? Customer price is £14. In my head i could not justify this, so i told the customer he would get a free clean this month as he wasnt happy and next month half price clean. In my eyes this was better than wasting 90 minutes of driving one of my vehicles wasted fuel wages etc...
What do you think?
Im trying to find the best way to handle complaints without ping off the customer. Need to make sure i handle it professionally as possible.
With regards to sussing out customers and genuine complaints it really comes down to 'gut feeling'. - how long have we serviced the customer ? - do they pay on time ? - have they had complaints before ? - what's the record concerning my staff - never gets complaints ? or does get regular problems ( and when I say regular - I'm talking the 2 to 3 per month )
SO....
like you have done - it makes no sense to travel 45 minutes for a 14 quid job, so we offer a free clean next time
if more local within 10 min drive or im quoting in the area I will pop by to look.
telltale sign of non genuine complaint is when offering a free or re-clean we get a flat outright NO - usually looking at the customers history we see they are only 3 or 4 cleans in OR always late to pay/miss then double up - if this is the case I don't even record it as a complaint against the staff - why wouldn't you have them re cleaned if the problem was they are not clean
long standing customers get the benefit of the doubt - after all what's a free clean next time ( 15/20 minutes ? )
we have 2 guys that never and I mean never get complaints - I have 2 guys the get a complaint once every 2 or 3 months so I would be dubious of any complaint made against them and quite often its dirty inside windows or blown units
the other chap is just too fast and a bit careless - so I get a complaint that he cleaned the house to fast, windows fine but too fast (so what's the problem) - I tell him on these clean the kitchen and living room windows twice if the customer is in - he does miss windows ( skylights or semi hidden widows ) and even cleaned the wrong house ( IN THE WRONG STREET )
but overall he brings in more per day than the others (speedy) and we do get many customers email saying he's a great guy - he also promotes the pressure washing really well and brought in an extra 3k that way - so way it up - yes we know he's going to drop the odd ball, but its nothing to what he adds to the biz
More serious stuff has been scratched windows ( 3 in 9 years ) - different employees and they have only ever done it once - just take it on the chin
what I don't tolerate is regular equipment breakages or accidents in the van
Darran
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I would have somebody with me long enough so the way I clean with the pole is etched in there brain if they have 1,I’ve known some people that try and get them out on there own after a couple of months when they have no experience at all.
It only works employing if you pay enough whether this is done through a bonus structure or whichever way you chose to do it,there must be some incentive for them. If anyone was to learn my work it would take quiet a while and they’d have to know the area tbh some houses I do the Sat Nav would say I’m lost,as said no one will ever do it like you as it’s your business-baby but if your looking to expand it has to be done but hand on heart I think it’s a real gamble if you have quality work coz I know how money people think,they want people round there houses they trust 100% especially if your are doing insides
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I would have somebody with me long enough so the way I clean with the pole is etched in there brain if they have 1,I’ve known some people that try and get them out on there own after a couple of months when they have no experience at all.
It only works employing if you pay enough whether this is done through a bonus structure or whichever way you chose to do it,there must be some incentive for them. If anyone was to learn my work it would take quiet a while and they’d have to know the area tbh some houses I do the Sat Nav would say I’m lost,as said no one will ever do it like you as it’s your business-baby but if your looking to expand it has to be done but hand on heart I think it’s a real gamble if you have quality work coz I know how money people think,they want people round there houses they trust 100% especially if your are doing insides
I’ve sent the last two out after 2 weeks. The odd glitch but nothing major. It’s an unskilled job with the odd knack here and there.
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My take on this:
I've been on the other end of this stuff so will write my observations.
I am a self-employed sole trader. I rarely receive a complaint. Even rarer is a justified complaint, and I am the sort who can step back and own up if I've screwed up.
In the past (not in recent years), I have sub-contracted some residential work from a couple contractors at different times. In spite of giving the same attention to their work as to my own, the complaint rate was rather higher. It wasn't awful, but there was a definite increase.
I believe that when a slightly larger company is involved using staff or subbies, some customers' expectations increase. It's probably not a conscious thing but it certainly exists.
Also, there is some old saying that it's easier to complain about Caesar than to complain to Caesar. If you think about this, it's perfectly logical.
When I realised I'd had no complaints in a long time, I began to speed up. Yes, I received the odd complaint that I was too fast (hard to believe, these days)
I would say that the number of complaints you receive about your employee's work is just about on the edge of the acceptable limit, and if you're happy with his other ways, I reckon you have a fairly good one - certainly good enough. You could have him slow down on all jobs for the sake of receiving close to zero complaints, but if nearly everyone is happy with his work, it's probably better to take the odd loss of a customer. One way of resolving it could be to continue working at the same speed, but push up the flow rate. Or maybe ensure he does a final rinse with brush off the glass. Although most jobs will be fine with rinsing with brush on the glass, some windows/frames don't handle it as well. Maybe try the higher flow rate. Is the van tank large enough for this. Is it feasible to load up with a few containers to tip in the tank later if the tank would run out at a higher rate?