Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on June 27, 2006, 10:57:35 pm
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Like the title says some things i hate about wfp i will list them in order of annoyance and hope that the suppliers will pick up on it.
Before some bright spark supplier says you should have bought one of our systems, most have my parts have been purchased of household name wfp suppliers.
Now in at number 1.
The thing that is really bugging me at the moment is the connectors pulling off where the hose connects to the pole hose every time i move, i have tried hoselock , the air type fittings, in fact in six months i have had at least 10 differnt fittings and they still pop off.
2 . the same fittings not shutting the water off after they have popped off, especially the air type fittings, i have to keep shoving a screwdriver in the end to try and make the stop part activate, most of the time this fails so i just have to put the end in my bucket to prevent my van being soaked. At about a fiver a time its not funny any more
3 Microbore hose swelling up like a sausage because of the inner layer failing, to prevent the swelling i put a small cut in the outer layer to release the pressure, the biggest problem with this is you normally get a wet leg with the constant hose leak. this has happened on 2 hoses now
4 . bristles on brush heads that decide that they are just going to collapse and lean to one side making cleaning difficult on one edge of the window, i have gone through 3 brush heads in 6 months, these so called mono filament brushes from 2 top manufacturers, no thank you, i am going to try something else.
5. poles that dont lock tight enough so they decide to swivel on you when you are 20 feet in the air, the problem is worse on the gooseneck poles, this is most annoying when the gooseneck spins and you nearly shatter someones window, this has happened to me once and it cost me £30 to replace a small pane
6. filling the van every night and forgetting that you have left the tap running until one of the neighbors tells you there is a swimming pool at the bottom of the street.
I will be a bit quicker now
7 changing resin
8 spots
9 getting soaked when you have to stand close under a winow, it always seems to be one of those window ledges that just makes the water bounce all over you
10 snail trails on windows
11 paying stupid money for parts that are clearly a rip off
12 manufacturers telling you, you can easily double your income(dont make me laugh)
13 customers faces when they have never seen wfp before , they look at you as though you have just pi55ed on there shoe
14 losing the button on my variestream only to be promised it would be replaced and 6 months later i am still waiting
15 getting a phone call every month from a guy with a scouse accent asking me if i want to buy another crap pole for even more money even though i say no every time.
I could go on and on and on but i think i will give others the chance to fill in the last few or however many it might be.
Rant over ;D
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David
I take it you have had a bad day today.
What about the things you like about wfp.
Paul
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Paul its the same every day, sometimes worse.
The things i like about wfp ????????????????????
It gets me off the ladders apart from that , i get arm ache instead of leg ache and its a little bit quicker on some jobs.
The only reason i got wfp was for safety, nothing else
Dave
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David.
Concerning number 15. You only have to ask him to remove your number from his telephone list and he obliges. I assume you are referring to Brodex?
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1. cat crap on hose
2. dog crap on hose
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Jets getting block that one really cheeses me off.
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hi david
maybe i can help you with numbers 1 and 2
i have put my flow control valve 12 inches away from the stop connector that way i hold it in my hand and it never comes off also it never gets broken because it is in your hand and not being draged along the floor
hope this helps
gary
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Jets getting block that one really cheeses me off.
I carry a bit of paperclip wire for this. OK, I know it will block again eventually but at least this saves me from having to deal with the jet if I'm on a roll and don't want to be held up.
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Well sorry about this but thanks to "Graham" my equipment setup has caused me no problems in 9 months!
But I do have some body pains that may cause me to consider suicide just lately.
I have been off work for 2 days with back pain, and I can't feel my thumb any more!
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Like the title says some things i hate about wfp i will list them in order of annoyance and hope that the suppliers will pick up on it.
Before some bright spark supplier says you should have bought one of our systems, most have my parts have been purchased of household name wfp suppliers.
Now in at number 1.
The thing that is really bugging me at the moment is the connectors pulling off where the hose connects to the pole hose every time i move, i have tried hoselock , the air type fittings, in fact in six months i have had at least 10 differnt fittings and they still pop off.
2 . the same fittings not shutting the water off after they have popped off, especially the air type fittings, i have to keep shoving a screwdriver in the end to try and make the stop part activate, most of the time this fails so i just have to put the end in my bucket to prevent my van being soaked. At about a fiver a time its not funny any more
Dave,
I've tried the new pro end from Gardners and I find so far these are better than Hoselock.
Only odd thing is the ball but I find it does not snag as much as hoselock. One word of advise you will need 'O' ring Clip Pliers to fit these.
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
Doug
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It may be safer than trad but things sure are a lot harder i am not taking any other wfp work on i am selling some off with some contract work ive been offered. So i can get round in plenty of time then it will be less stress 8)
Interesting subject this one :)
regards
Brett.
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I have had the thumb thing, and the back thing also still got the tennis elbow thing.
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Blimey, some surprising postings here.
You particularly surprised me Dave, I've always seen you as a real flag-waver for wfp. :o
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I have had the thumb thing, and the back thing also still got the tennis elbow thing.
Dave
havent had the thumb thing yet but ive had everything else, ive got that many bandage supports on i look like a mummy ;D
Brett.
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I have had the thumb thing, and the back thing also still got the tennis elbow thing.
You aint on your own with the elbow thing Dave :-[
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anyone had the thingy thing yet?
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Not yet :o :o :o :o :o :o
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if i could just add something
the thing i hated about traditional was the day i watched my son fall off his ladder.
makes wfp all worth while
gary
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Sorry to hear about that one Gaz, hope he didnt hurt himself .
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Squeeks
I wave the wfp flag for safety, In short it is safer , mostly quicker, It cleans as well as trad, without wfp i would have quit wc by now or just settled for bungalows,
Thats it BUNGALOWS , thats the answer
Ronaldo
I really sympathise with the elbow thing there is nothing worse, it is getting slightly better.
GLR
I have fell off a few times myself hence why i went WFP
WFP should come with an health warning and an early depression warning, i was doing ok until i started getting the odd complaint last month.
I may retire to the Outer Hebrides after all
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Dave, yes its getting a bit better mainly because ive made another pole up that is alot lighter than my original one and ive been wearing a strap that you put at the top of the forearm.
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hi my son is ok if a teenager can ever be ok :P
but it does for me put wfp into perspective , i wont go back to ladders for cleaning windows no matter what
gary
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6. filling the van every night and forgetting that you have left the tap running until one of the neighbors tells you there is a swimming pool at the bottom of the street.
I gave Alex Gardner an idea on how to solve this, he was going to speak to the supplier. If it works out will solve all probs, will wait for outcome.
Doug
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Dave
I agree with the whole list and I agree that why aren't manufacturers listening.
Today we had the usual problem of a connector getting caught on a wall.
At least once a week a connector fails.
Why oh why is something so simple so complex?
Brush heads? Why is it such a simple thing so hard to design? Last week we were at our local supplier and a well known make still had the same 100% useless brush heads costing a bomb.
Hi G,L,R Window Cleaning Services
I am truly sorry that your son was injured falling from a ladder and that is one thing can never ever be denied about wfp. It is safer although back injuries are more likely with wfp. A back injuries is non the less less likely to cause death than a ladder.
Two weeks ago we got given some work by a window cleaner who is retiring. He had been doing windows with a ladder for 40 odd years without a single injury or fall.
I don't mean to start an issue about wfp v trad but it seems to me in almost every thread like this one this always crops up and it is for me, a real put off. I then think here we go again.
Sorry, and I mean no insult but that is what I think.
I personally think it's best to start a new topic about how wfp is safer rather than include it in a heading 'things I hate about wfp'.
Cheers
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Dave , just out of curiousity , what type of air hose connector are you on about ?
Is it the one with the nylon sleeve from Gardiners ?
Rich P @ F
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I will not go back. After 19 years and a series of bad health problems I was at quitting point. In fact I am amazed I have picked up again! Thanks to wfp.
I used to have the strength and confidence of Squeaky. I was just the same. I did a good job and my customers all liked me. But first my knees went, then my heart went bang!
That did it for me. Six months off work and poorer health made me think like never before.
Life is not a rehearsal...This is the real deal...I am still here, but not so arrogant
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Dave , got this type from VariTech , they have never popped off and they always shut off when disconnected , £5 each
Rich P @ F
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p& f
they are similar to gardiners but an all metal sleeve as opposed to Gardiners plastic sleeve type.
I got the first ones from Omni and some from Window clean warehouse, both the same type more or less , i think the trouble is they are designed for air rather than water and i think a bit of grit gets in them rendering them next to useless.
The way i have cut my pole hose is very short so when i extend the pole the connector slides up the pole rather than dragging on the floor, it is better protected this way but i still have problems, the connector needs some coaxing to slide inside the pole sometimes but it works quite well that way.
P.s
PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT AN ANTI WFP POST PLEASE DONT START THE DABATE HERE,
ALSO I AM NOT SHOUTING JUST HIGHLIGHTING A POINT
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p& f they look very similar , have you got a clearer picture, pretty please
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This is as clear as it gets , only a camera phone !
Rich
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What about decent connectors for garden type hose?
It really really bugs me that wfp makers don't make them?
Or decent hose that does not get kinks in it.
Or a decent method of rolling all the hose back up that doesn't cost a riddiculously insane price of £250 just for something to wind back garden hose?
Oh for some simple effective thinking as well as nice pretty glossy brochures. Now I'm going into one.
I could go on and on and on about...... GRRRRrrrrrrrrrr....
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And me being just 5' 7" tall - have you tried to extend a well known wfp makers 35' pole?
Obviously in their minds every one who buys wfp is 5' 9" tall or over.
I cannot reach the top 2 clips and extend it when it is upright. How naff a design is that?
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Buy a stool shortie pants ;D ;D ;D
Rich P @ F
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I have had the thumb thing, and the back thing also still got the tennis elbow thing.
My elbow has been a lot better recently but it's still not right. My back has been more tender since starting WFP. I'm ensuring that all lifting is done from the knees now. I suppose they'll go next. Mind you, my shoulder is fine since I all but stopped trad.
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david we have all went thru the same problems and for what it is worth
I loaded a pic recently of the connectors I have on my brushes for quick release
peter fogwill does a ball cock for the tank, when it reaches the level it stops the water, maybe have a look at this.
I guess all of your problems comes from domestic window cleaning, the same as the rest of us, trying to get this to work on domestic is a nightmare.I am not talking about mansions but basically run of the mill 3 bed semi and detached
house all in the one street.You need to rethink the domestic and seperate it from commercial when you come to plan for wfp, I have done this and I am now just about getting it together
we use backpacks with folding trolley with spare container and attached to the trolley is a 5 lt di resin vessel for topping up as you go.saves carrying piles of containers, just go around a back and top up the container as you clean with the backpack
the trolley is fiited for 2 containers and a backpack that you can lift out easily
2 holders for main pole and conservatory pole, hooks to the side for the backpack hose and fitted to the front a reel for doing backs as well, I am presently fiting a small 5 lt di-resin to this as well so i dont need to go and get containers all the time
all my poles are fitted with quick connectors at the brush heads and to the hoses which are on the outside
for quick changing from conservatory pole to large pole, the backpacks are fitted with on off valves and because I have the hoses outside I can now fit several valves on the bottom part of the large pole and connect quick for what ever height I am working with.
As I said in an early topic feed the monster, this is what I meant when does the tweaking stop to try and get this to work with domestic and get our numbers so happily as we did on traditional, I am now about there some lads say put your prices up this will help for the hassle , but remember you are still competing against the ladder brigade
as I said earlier you need to seperate the commercial thinking from the domestic thinking to get this to work on domestic
I have not taken pics of my setup but if it helps I could send you some
noticed you are on wannadoo, does this allow for several pics.
we are allways here to help and sometimes getting it off your chest can be a problem shared
hope this helps
jinky
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I have been humming and ahhing about getting 100m of microbore to fit on my existing hoselock 50m hand wind reel....
Went for 100m of tricoflex and a 100m hand crank hose reel instead...boy, what a difference, ok, I know I lose the advantage of the lighter microbore when dragging it out, but winding it in is vastly easier, and the tricoflex doesn't kink, even when you have dragged out a pile of it and it is all lying on top of itself.
My pole hose is reinforced airline type hose, I have about 25-30m of this, its connected to the tricoflex via a step down connector and a standard plastic auto-shut off hoselock connector...these are 5 or 6 quid to buy, they do wear out but I have never, ever had a problem with the auto shut off failing.
My biggest complaint with them is that if I tug too hard on the pole hose it comes out of the connector.
But as I have 30 or so metres of the pole hose this gives me lots of scope.
I am still using the same brush (I only have the one at the moment still) as I had when I started, this is the Salmon one that came with the system I bought off Peter Fogwill, its over 2 years old now and the bristles (mono-filament) are still perfect, if a little worn on each end of the brush, I can't recommend the Salmon brushes high enough.
Snail trails.....god but I hate snail trails!! >:(
Having said that, I hated them when doing just trad and I think WFP cleans them better actually, you see them instantly (and not after you have started to squeegee the glass) and also know when they have gone.
If I have done a load of large high buildings, my lower back can really ache...but in truth this wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't such a fat b****d ;D
And I too hate the 6ft pole length, though as I use the Unger ones, I at least only need to have the section on that I will actually need...they may be the cheapest poles out there, but they are bloody versatile ;)
And the little green bits that wear out in the clamp section are just pennies to replace too.
It's a big learning curve using WFP on standard semi's too, get it wrong and it is highly frustrating, the hose catches on everything, or jams under the customers car wheels! >:(
So you have to be very organised, when you get it right you can really fly.
I should be at work, I've only got 2 jobs to do today though...both over a ton..who wants 30 semi's ;D
2 big 3 storey Georgian offices that no one with ladders wants is just the ticket for me 8)
Ian
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I've used the garden type connectors from B&Q for months now and found them to be far better than hozelock, they don't pull out as easily. I use microbore but it connects into garden hose for the last 2 inches then into the connector - haven't tried any of the airline type or any m/bore connetors so can't say how they compare.
As for backache I think using heavy poles causes it. We use the lightest poles we can get away with and haven't had any probs with backache or sore arms etc, then again I'm a pretty big lad so if you're a smaller build I guess it will cause more problems.
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David,
If it's domestic work you're complaining about; you shouldn't have sold those backpacks!
I've taken to wearing mine on my back for stuff with steps or anywhere where I'm not going to be there for long.
I only fill it three-quarters full mind, the big fanny I am, but I reckon; even with the re-filling I have to do, that it's quicker for this sort of work than a van-mounted system; simpler too.
I/we trad the bottoms; usually; which is probably why I/we have had so few complaints.
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same as tosh backpacks trolleys on domestic tops only trad bottoms
jinky
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How heavy is a backpack and how much water does it carry?
What Dave posted about steps caught my attention.
Thanks
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i think the problem at no 1 is that when you disconect the pole after finishing the job or moving to a different part of the job you reel in the pipe and the connector rubs along the floor all the way to the reel this causes all sorts of problems your wearing it out .which will make it stick when you try to disconect or pop of when you dont want it to which is whats happening now.the same thing used to happen to me all the time so how i prevented this from happening is to cut a tennis ball in half make a hole in it a bit smaller than the connector put it in your pocket and when youve finnished the job just pop it over the end then reel in
this has worked for me hope this is helpfull if not just ignore it and keep buying parts goodluck
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Tosh
A van mount is far quicker than a back pack and a lot less hassle, my average job is just over half an hour and i have plenty where i use 200 litres on just one job
Total
good tip i may try that. i usually walk the hose back to the van before i wind in but not always.
Ian
I will definately try a salmon brush, is gazs brushes the same as peter fogwills.
It is interesting to see that a salmon lasts so much longer than a purpose built top name brush, i have used top of the range brushes from 2 big wfp manufacturers now,and they end up so annoying as they wear out ie bending in one direction.
Also the unger poles seem to last a lot longer than the big name wfp manufacturers also (why did i fall for it) . i just wanted the best and got 2 poles from 2 different manufacturers and they are both loosing grip on the clamp sections in fact they are both falling apart, the internal stops which stop the sections coming out to far have disintegrated on both poles now and one of them has actually split where the drill holes are , as for microbore i wanted the best yet again only to be sold 2 faulty hoses from 2 manufacturers.
I wish i just went the cheap and chearfull route instead of falling for it big time.
I will try an unger pole and salmon brush and see how i get on, well i cant get much worse
Dave
Today i was on a nusrsing home and can usually finish it on a full tank full, but today because of my dodgy connector i had to finish the last 20 windows by hand, i had forgot what that felt like ,horrible
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How heavy is a backpack and how much water does it carry?
What Dave posted about steps caught my attention.
Thanks
hi ross i appologise for going off topic earlier.
the backpacks we use hold 16ltrs of water and we ordered the extra small fan jets from cleantech which save us loads of water i usually put 12 ltrs in the backpack and carry it all day no problem.
gary
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david this is the connectors I use
hope it helps jinky, got sick of fighting to get brush heads of poles
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Dave I use Gaz brushes on my 18' poles and a 24' pole and I am very impressed with them. I have had them four months and they still look as good as when I first got them. My freind got 2 brushes from ioincs the cheap one and the expensive one and both look awfull, They look like they have had a heavy date with Uri Geller. And he has had them less then 3 months. He could not beleive it when he saw how good mine look.
A vikan brush on a mini pole is the Bees nuts for dealing with snail trails. I dont bat an eye lid when I see um on the glass its that good for removing them.
I have not had a problem with my arms or elbows since I used Gaz brush. Its so light and it glides along the glass far easy then an ioincs brush.
Enclosed is a photo of my gardiner connector with valve on my m/bore hose. I tuck hose through my belt so the valve is on my hip. I never drag or drop the connector and have never had a problem with them.
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Hi G,L,R Window Cleaning Services
Thanks for the info and no worries re going off topic. It is maybe worthwhile posting something about that as a new topic.
Accidents are never that far from anyones thoughts who use ladders. Especially when it's so near to home so to speak and I think your experience is worth stating.
Back to the backpacks, 16ltrs, in total with all the other bits needed, the weight is maybe 40 - 45 lbs?
I'll probably be working on my own soon so I need to start planning. I don't want to get a back pack and find it weighs something ridiculous.
Cheers
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hi Ross
you dont fill it all the time it does get heavy but i find that 12ltrs is no problem at all
gary