Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nathankaye on October 24, 2018, 12:14:23 pm
-
So the warning was given, so if your ready to watch a little waffle and a review of the Gardiner spray bar then this is from my channel.
https://youtu.be/H3WcGJbzl2w
-
Good video Nathan I might give 1 a go I do find it an issue like you say with the 2 jets not covering enough of the glass especially on narrow windows,although I think I’d like it on all types of windows.
-
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1540385487_idiot.jpg)
-
Wow,
You really are an antagonist old fart aren't you. If it ain't broken don't fix it type of guy. You may have tried this n that and gone back to your normal 2 jetted brush thinking it's the bees knees because, yes it works and therefore anyone who attains to want more is told they are buying snake oil as it were. Now for you that's fine, you like to work steady and that's OK but to shoot others down is getting tiring now Sean.
-
Looks good Nathan. Probably a few too many jets imo. And I’d be worried I’d have to go home to refill the tank.
-
Looks good Nathan. Probably a few too many jets imo. And I’d be worried I’d have to go home to refill the tank.
There's always the option to block off every other cannon.
-
Where’s the video of your hot water test with your 2kw element?
-
The xline rinse bar which has less holes and is in the middle of the brush is best thing of used in 8 years of wfp
-
Where’s the video of your hot water test with your 2kw element?
That thread has been locked now. But yes I am ablt to get into the 60 degrees and I'm happy with those results. I don't feel the need to post further on the subject. Ones can do their own experiments to get hot water or work out the reality of how long they choose to have their elements on for.
-
You get as good coverage as that with 2 fan jets
What about cleaning the top of the frame esp. deep set windows won’t the bar hit the brickwork in the reveal Or worse spray over the brickwork as you clean ?
Darran
-
Wow,
You really are an antagonist old fart aren't you. If it ain't broken don't fix it type of guy. You may have tried this n that and gone back to your normal 2 jetted brush thinking it's the bees knees because, yes it works and therefore anyone who attains to want more is told they are buying snake oil as it were. Now for you that's fine, you like to work steady and that's OK but to shoot others down is getting tiring now Sean.
Exactly if something isnt broken then there is no need to fix it, its not hard. (roll eyes)
-
You get as good coverage as that with 2 fan jets
What about cleaning the top of the frame esp. deep set windows won’t the bar hit the brickwork in the reveal Or worse spray over the brickwork as you clean ?
Darran
I've not used fan jets so I can not honestly give my opinion, but I would ask if the fans give more of a misting for that coverage rather than a heavy downpour. Especially if every other cannon was blocked off.
As far as brick work etc is concerned, the answer is no. I've been using a spray bar for some time now and I like it to hit just above the bristles and the edge of this bar sits near the edge of the brush. Even before using a spray bar, I've never caught brick work or the likes with the brush and especially not the top edge ofthe brush. So why would you catch the bar that sits on the edge.
There may be a day when I do, but for some time using spray bars I've yet to do so.
The spray is also strong enough to rinse whilst your cleaning the top frames etc as well
-
You get as good coverage as that with 2 fan jets
What about cleaning the top of the frame esp. deep set windows won’t the bar hit the brickwork in the reveal Or worse spray over the brickwork as you clean ?
Darran
Exactly, example, if your flow is 2 litres per minute then you will get two litres per minute across the glass should you use two jets or ten.
-
Thanks for the informative review.
You've saved me £30! ;)
-
I’ve never understood the benefits of fan jets and rinse bars.
I tried fan jets and found the weight of the water wasn’t anywhere near as heavy in rinsing bits down the glass.
In other words, I’ve always found two nice big fat 3mm pencil jets makes rinsing much quicker than fan jets. I’ve not tried a rinse bar but I’m guessing I’d get the same results, a slower rinse.
I find the dirt and debris falls down the glass much quicker with two 3mm pencil jets. Fan jets just didn’t cut it for me, water wasn’t ‘heavy’ enough to rinse the bits off the glass as quick. I use full flow rate before any one asks.
Still, good to see a video of it Nathan.
-
I found mine was too long to fit on a supreme brush because it overhung the stock. Fitted better on a extreme but because I use 100 mty of pole hose, I struggled with the flow. It ain’t for me.
-
no you get a good strong water flow tat extends out about 4 inches from the bristles before turning into a mist
Fan jets are not for everyone - but a while back there were lots of bad designs on the market that didn't really fan that well - after a couple of attempts Alex finally got it somewhere near correct with his 110 deg. fans ( the black ones ) - the older red or white ones he produced were not good enough
fair point if you can get to the top of the frame without the bar hitting the underside of the reveal but for 30 quid I think its a bit overpriced but might be worth getting one to trial for the lads
Darran
-
Smudger , far be it from me to tell granny how to suck eggs , but if you want anything to trial dont give it to "the lads" they will kill it in 5 mins or less ;D ;D ;D
-
Smudger , far be it from me to tell granny how to suck eggs , but if you want anything to trial dont give it to "the lads" they will kill it in 5 mins or less ;D ;D ;D
absolutely!!! - as fan jets last pretty much indefinitely, so should the spray bar, if not then its not an item for staff to play with ;D
-
Keep an open mind regarding spray bars, you may be surprised how quick you can get through your work compared to using jet nozzles in your brush. I've increased my efficiency by at least thirty percent on most types of property except new builds as the windows are so small it barely makes much difference.
-
Is that 30% from using pencil jets ?
Darran
-
I agree I have been using the xline rinse bar , I’ve had a higher flow but have definitely used about a third less water than when using pencil jets, i know everyone on here loves Gardner’s products but the xline is far better in my view
-
Is that 30% from using pencil jets ?
Darran
Hello Darran,
I use 10mm O/Diameter flexible hose with a 8mm internal diameter running through my pole and gooseneck which allows a very good high flow of water which allows plenty of flow through both 12 and 16 inch rinse bars with my flow turned down as low as 60, no need to go higher than 68 on large commercial work. That's using rinse bars with every hole open as that allows plenty of water to rinse on the glass in a uniformed line sheeting just above the top row of bristles with plenty of weight to pull down brick dust even on hydrophobic glass. I would never go back to 8/6mm pole hose (too slow) and never ever go back to using pencil jets ;D ;D ;D ;D I save a good deal of water and finish majority of jobs quicker :)
-
I agree, when I started experimenting with fan jets years ago it was clear that cleaning was faster than with pencil jets - long time ago so I can’t remember how much quicker but I do recall I was saving over 50 litres of water a day
Rinse bar could be very handy for some of our commercial work tho.
I don’t think people realise how slow pencil jets are IMO they are only supplied because they are cheap to make and fit rather than being the best way to deliver water on the glass
Darran
-
Darran the majority of guys who have been at this a while rinse with the brush on the glass which means jet type doesn't matter,
that said even in my early days when I was still rinsing off the glass I never found pencil jets to be slow, a two second zig zag down the glass was all that was needed, I can understand newbies getting on as if they have to spray paint the glass but this should be nothing more than nonsense to experienced guys.
-
Darran the majority of guys who have been at this a while rinse with the brush on the glass which means jet type doesn't matter,
that said even in my early days when I was still rinsing off the glass I never found pencil jets to be slow, a two second zig zag down the glass was all that was needed, I can understand newbies getting on as if they have to spray paint the glass but this should be nothing more than nonsense to experienced guys.
i hardly ever rinse on the glass on ground floor windows......or top windows either..... ;D
-
ive tried fan jets and their ok...i prefer them for f/s/g/cleans....the problem for me regards accuracy when rinsing...quite a few windows on my round have dodgy top rubber seals and i keep water away from them.....fan jets makes this harder to achieve....
never tried the rinse bars but i can envisage the same problem as fan jets........
rinsing on the glass can also cause problems(brush marks,bits of dirt left on the glass etc)so i virtually always rinse off whether its upper or lower windows.....
-
Keep an open mind regarding spray bars, you may be surprised how quick you can get through your work compared to using jet nozzles in your brush. I've increased my efficiency by at least thirty percent on most types of property except new builds as the windows are so small it barely makes much difference.
After using the spray bar for a while I have found I did get some spotting, not just from the top frame but also in the middle of the glass. There must be a certain way to use them, how exactly do you perform you rinsing?
Thanks
-
Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?
Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?
It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...
Darran
-
I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.
Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.
Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters. Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.
-
I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.
Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.
Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters. Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.
The problem with your broken logic is the industry has been fixing what IS broken, its why we can now work with lightweight poles, brushes and so on.
Iv yet to hear one of you faffers come on here and say... guys I'm having a problem with X do you know if there are any solutions
to my problem. jumping on the latest gadget and then looking for a reason to use it seems to be the main cause for most of the faff on here, you're deluded if you think that's how we make things better.
-
Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?
Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?
It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...
Darran
Instead of nitpicking why not ask yourself if others can rinse without lifting the brush off the glass then whats stopping me,
I mean if you can do the same job without having to worry about jets or hold the brush off the glass then surely it has to be the correct/best way.
-
I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.
Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.
Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters. Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.
The problem with your broken logic is the industry has been fixing what IS broken, its why we can now work with lightweight poles, brushes and so on.
Iv yet to hear one of you faffers come on here and say... guys I'm having a problem with X do you know if there are any solutions
to my problem. jumping on the latest gadget and then looking for a reason to use it seems to be the main cause for most of the faff on here, you're deluded if you think that's how we make things better.
I don't see how it is broken logic. The thing is, heavy or light poles makes no difference in your argument. So it's an heavy pole, but you know, it got the job done!
But if you are saying that the development of lighter poles and poles which are telescopic etc make the job easier and quicker then isn't that you agreeing with the vast majority of what we are saying. That these improvements are a slight variation o what already works but with the advantage of making it easier etc.
-
Nitpicking ? - I asked a perfectly reasonable question “how do you know the majority clean with the brush on the glass ?”
Darran
-
I feel like Iv not cleaned properly if I clean with the brush on - however Iv never really stuck to that method for more than a week and the went back to rinsing off , everything with red Gardiners fan jets
-
Majority rinse off the glass, fact end of
-
Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?
Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?
It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...
Darran
i just found fan jets difficult compared to pencil jets when it came to rinsing just under the top seal....its easier to splash water where you dont want it.......
-
rinsing on the glass is fine if the windows are hydrophilic and their not too dirty(4 weekly cleans)....however a lot of windows are hydrophobic and its better to rinse off the glass IMO......I use BOTH methods.....
-
Majority rinse off the glass, fact end of
I rinse on...and off...with fans...and pencils...and even have a couple of jobs where the rinse bar comes into its own.
I have days where rinsing on is fine, other days where the glass is full of "bits" where you have to rinse off.
There must as many different opinions as there are window cleaners. They're probably all right to some extent.
-
I use 10mm O/Diameter flexible hose with a 8mm internal diameter
Where do you source this hose from please ?
And also the appropriate plastic fittings, whichever ones you use please?
TIA.
-
I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.
Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.
Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters. Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.
The problem with your broken logic is the industry has been fixing what IS broken, its why we can now work with lightweight poles, brushes and so on.
Iv yet to hear one of you faffers come on here and say... guys I'm having a problem with X do you know if there are any solutions
to my problem. jumping on the latest gadget and then looking for a reason to use it seems to be the main cause for most of the faff on here, you're deluded if you think that's how we make things better.
I don't see how it is broken logic. The thing is, heavy or light poles makes no difference in your argument. So it's an heavy pole, but you know, it got the job done!
But if you are saying that the development of lighter poles and poles which are telescopic etc make the job easier and quicker then isn't that you agreeing with the vast majority of what we are saying. That these improvements are a slight variation o what already works but with the advantage of making it easier etc.
No what I'm saying is heavy and whippy poles were a problem that the industry has done its best to remove, now what problems have you been getting with your jets that has lead you to buy a rinse bar ? like I have said there's problem solving and there is faff.
-
See , Nath just likes to tinker round with stuff as do I , I think WFP has pretty much gone as far as it can go really , we have hot , we have leccy reels , not much more is needed or even required to clean a window , sure things can get lighter and they will , but you cant really get purer than pure , hotter than hot .
Suppliers will always sell the next must have gadget and certain w/c's will buy it regardless of if its needed or not .
I like to sit back and see the fuss , if i think i can benefit from it big time then dependant on price i will buy the real Mcoy , if too much i will make a similar item to the best of my capability if at all possible , hence why i wind in with a black and decker drill , £400 on a reel , no thanks matey ;D
-
I feel I started differently to most other wfp users in that I started off using fans over pencils years ago, I’ve always had both options fitted to my brushes but I just could never get on with the standard gardiner pencil size I used to find it bounced off the glass and didn’t give enough wave on the window so stuck with fans.
Years later I then tried 3mm jets and it was like a revelation, at first I thought they gave a lazy flow but turning up the flow rate I found I ended up using same if not less water and quicker rinsing as the waters not bouncing back off and gives a good wave on the glass, as I got more and more confident I barely do a rinse anymore as it washes the dirt down so well and I can see it still pooring down after I’ve come off that section of glass.
I tried the bissel diy rinse bar and wasn’t for me trying to get to top of frames without touching the wall above.
Ive always found it odd not enough people try enjoy 3mm pencils!