Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Clarkey2 on October 09, 2018, 08:03:25 pm

Title: Heating water
Post by: Clarkey2 on October 09, 2018, 08:03:25 pm
So today at a job on a social club I went to use the toilet and the sink had a small electric water heater, could these be used for wfp using a little generator?

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: alank on October 09, 2018, 08:06:36 pm
Just use an immersion cheep less hassle and no need for generator.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Clarkey2 on October 09, 2018, 08:16:15 pm
Just use an immersion cheep less hassle and no need for generator.
Cheers Alan How hot will the water stay throughout the day if I used an immersion?
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 09, 2018, 08:35:59 pm
Just use an immersion cheep less hassle and no need for generator.
Cheers Alan How hot will the water stay throughout the day if I used an immersion?

I use an immersion heater in a 500ltr tank which is also insulated. I don't use anywhere near 500ltrs in a day.  I fill my tank up around 7 or 8pm and in the past I have taken temp readings of my water and posted on here (if look through the history or usethe search button).   If say, I started at 65degrees in the morning before setting off to work, by time I come to top the water up it would be 60 or just below but not as low as 55.    Because for me and how I operate, when I top the tank up with cold, I start with a starting temp of 40 - 43 degrees.
Obviously people have different tank sizes, different length elements and they have installed them at different heights and have different size tanks. Some insulate and others don't etc etc. So what works for one may not work for others, if that is taken in consideration
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Clarkey2 on October 09, 2018, 08:56:23 pm
Just use an immersion cheep less hassle and no need for generator.
Cheers Alan How hot will the water stay throughout the day if I used an immersion?

I use an immersion heater in a 500ltr tank which is also insulated. I don't use anywhere near 500ltrs in a day.  I fill my tank up around 7 or 8pm and in the past I have taken temp readings of my water and posted on here (if look through the history or usethe search button).   If say, I started at 65degrees in the morning before setting off to work, by time I come to top the water up it would be 60 or just below but not as low as 55.    Because for me and how I operate, when I top the tank up with cold, I start with a starting temp of 40 - 43 degrees.
Obviously people have different tank sizes, different length elements and they have installed them at different heights and have different size tanks. Some insulate and others don't etc etc. So what works for one may not work for others, if that is taken in consideration

Thanks Nathan we will be using a 800ltr-1000ltr tank not sure yet as haven't bought it yet, how did you insulate your tank?

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: alank on October 09, 2018, 09:48:27 pm
I don't insulate my tank I insulate the back of my pickup and use the tank to keep things frost free and put the immersion on in morning to add extra heat if needed for work  in winter. My tank is 350 ltr so don't know how you would get on if you need a 1000ltr heated you might be better off with diesel heater Dazmond and a few others on here have them am sure they will advise you  ;D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Clarkey2 on October 09, 2018, 10:29:48 pm
I don't insulate my tank I insulate the back of my pickup and use the tank to keep things frost free and put the immersion on in morning to add extra heat if needed for work  in winter. My tank is 350 ltr so don't know how you would get on if you need a 1000ltr heated you might be better off with diesel heater Dazmond and a few others on here have them am sure they will advise you  ;D
Can't afford a diesel heater at the minute but will definitely look into for next year  8)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: DeLuce on October 09, 2018, 10:46:09 pm
When I had the immersion with my 500ltr tank, I used that 1" thick kingspan insulation board. I just cut to size for sides and top of the tank, cut hole for the immersion and outlet areas. I even shoved a piece underneath the base. Worked really well. After a couple of years, I decided to cut a 6" gap down the side to allow some heat to escape into the back of the van for winter.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 09, 2018, 11:03:51 pm
Rigsby insulation sounds great, however for me, I went with the bubble wrap variety /foiled back type and wrapped it around the tank several times. As it's a wydale tank, with the gap in the middle, because the bubble wrap is flexible I was able to insulate the full tank.
However as alank said, your planning an a whole bigger volume of water so perhaps a different approach may be needed, as suggested.

Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: dazmond on October 10, 2018, 08:36:25 am
Just use an immersion cheep less hassle and no need for generator.
Cheers Alan How hot will the water stay throughout the day if I used an immersion?

I use an immersion heater in a 500ltr tank which is also insulated. I don't use anywhere near 500ltrs in a day.  I fill my tank up around 7 or 8pm and in the past I have taken temp readings of my water and posted on here (if look through the history or usethe search button).   If say, I started at 65degrees in the morning before setting off to work, by time I come to top the water up it would be 60 or just below but not as low as 55.    Because for me and how I operate, when I top the tank up with cold, I start with a starting temp of 40 - 43 degrees.
Obviously people have different tank sizes, different length elements and they have installed them at different heights and have different size tanks. Some insulate and others don't etc etc. So what works for one may not work for others, if that is taken in consideration

Thanks Nathan we will be using a 800ltr-1000ltr tank not sure yet as haven't bought it yet, how did you insulate your tank?

Cheers Rob

with such a large tank your better off with a professionally fitted diesel heater like a grippatank hydroheat....just slap it on an interest free credit card... ;D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Simon Trapani on October 10, 2018, 09:13:38 am
For such a large tank I would stay with a cold ststem until you feel the need, or can afford, a proper hot system such as Dazmond’s.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 10, 2018, 09:56:30 am
Better still learn to clean with cold, don't be afraid to experiment and go a bit quicker, then when you are happy with your cleaning ability take a step back and write down what really holds you up over the day, maybe you do need it who knows.
Hot will only clean better if you have poor cleaning skills, it will only speed you up if you are getting large amounts of hard to remove crud on the glass, above all get hot because it makes business sense and not because its the latest forum fad, remember most of the hot users on here also used and raved about additives.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 10, 2018, 11:58:36 am
Better still learn to clean with cold, don't be afraid to experiment and go a bit quicker, then when you are happy with your cleaning ability take a step back and write down what really holds you up over the day, maybe you do need it who knows.
Hot will only clean better if you have poor cleaning skills, it will only speed you up if you are getting large amounts of hard to remove crud on the glass, above all get hot because it makes business sense and not because its the latest forum fad, remember most of the hot users on here also used and raved about additives.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Sean on this.
Because you are wanting a large tank of water and to use Hot, as everyone else is suggesting, a professional installation of a hot source is more suitable but this does not come cheap! But you do have options as daz as mentioned.
However, I'm one who has never agreed with such likes as vision and won't ever try and do so. I personally can tell a difference between hot and cold cleaning. For instance with hot I know two passes will mostly be enough to have clean windows and with cold it is atleast double that.   Sure not every window has snail trails, bug waste or even egg splatter (unless your coastal) and it every clean will be a first clean.
For me, using an immersion I can justify the costs and the benefits to my company.  If I was using 1000ltr of water and had to spend a large layout cost to have fitted and high running costs to do so, I would certainly evaluate the situation to see if that's a cost I can offset on the business and my turnover.

Do u need 800 - 1000ltr system?  Are you commercial over domestic?
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Jonny 87 on October 10, 2018, 12:53:54 pm
Better still learn to clean with cold, don't be afraid to experiment and go a bit quicker, then when you are happy with your cleaning ability take a step back and write down what really holds you up over the day, maybe you do need it who knows.
Hot will only clean better if you have poor cleaning skills, it will only speed you up if you are getting large amounts of hard to remove crud on the glass, above all get hot because it makes business sense and not because its the latest forum fad, remember most of the hot users on here also used and raved about additives.

Which form of hot water system have you tried over the years Sean?

I’ve tried cold.......LPG, Immersion, and now I’m moving to the diesel. I can tell the difference between cold and hot. Hot is faster, better, and more efficient. To what degree..... that’s up for debate. But surely there is no debate as to wether hot cleans better.

Will I use hot water everyday? Who knows yet, but what I’m looking forward to is the ability to not have to plan and prepare if I need hot water or not. Flick a switch and I’ll have hot water.

And in the grand scheme of things, window cleaning is a very profitable business especially if your full time. It’s not going to break the bank with a diesel system.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 10, 2018, 02:13:34 pm
Jonny I have a top of the range LPG that I originally bought to install in a motorhome ( would equal any diesel heater when it comes to performance ) and I would be still using it now if it made the slightest difference to my working day.
My windows will be as clean as any hot user( fact) and my speed in other words how quick I can get the pole on the glass to give it a quick scrub will depend on my fitness, age, level of tiredness on the day and so on, not some magic potion or sledge hammer.
Im not saying that hot water wont clean stubborn bird poo, snail trails and so on slightly quicker than cold, what I'm saying is most of us wont be getting enough of them to make or see a difference.
Iv had guys who use PPB who say my windows wont be as clean, guys who use additives that say my windows wont be as clean and the same with hot users, I'm sure it only a matter of time before another fad/faff will come along and the users will say the same.



Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on October 10, 2018, 02:32:43 pm
Big shame hot water doesn't produce as easy as a hot topic does ;D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Stoots on October 10, 2018, 03:35:13 pm
Not sure of  the exact costs of buying and running a diesel system over the year however i would have thought it negated any slight advantage of cleaning a bit quicker on the odd house.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 10, 2018, 03:55:25 pm
It all depends on why you are actually slower, at the end of the day even with a nuclear powered water heater I could never knock out Nathans numbers but my knowledge of the job means I don't need to blame that fact on the lack of a certain placebo,
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: dazmond on October 10, 2018, 06:00:51 pm
only invest in a diesel hot water system if you ve got a new or nearly new van that your gonna keep for many years.......
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: zesty on October 10, 2018, 06:10:33 pm
I’ve had and tried almost everything, nothing has actually sped me up or enabled me to make more money, hot water being one of them, it does, however, make the hose more flexible and warm water is nicer than cold on the hands! That’s about it.

My electric hose reel has never helped me get home earlier, or earned me more money, it’s just simply easier to work and less tiring on the reeling arm.

The moral of the story is none of these creature comforts ever actually earn you more money, they just make the money you do earn a bit easier to earn.

I’d do the same amount of houses with a bog standard system as I would with my creature comfort system. I know which i prefer though!



Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: dazmond on October 10, 2018, 06:32:57 pm
do everything you can to make the job easier,decent van,diesel hot water system with frost stat feature,electric reels,xtreme poles,round software,card machine,etc.....
 
i honestly cant believe how good us window cleaners have got it these days compared to the bad old days of  endless collecting,ladders and old cars/vans etc.....especially in the winter months! :D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Clarkey2 on October 10, 2018, 06:58:55 pm
Thanks for all your input, I'm going to be using a gen for guttervac so I might just buy an instant water heater and use the gen to power it as and when it's needed benefit of a gen being I can use red diesel which at 85p a litre is a bonus  :)

Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on October 10, 2018, 06:59:27 pm
You can own a BMW or a Fiat 500.   It still gets you from A to B using the same speed limits,  however it makes it a more enjoyable journey.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Spruce on October 10, 2018, 07:11:29 pm
You can own a BWM or a Fiat 500.   It still gets you from A to B using the same speed limits,  however it makes it a more enjoyable journey.

BMW  ;D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on October 10, 2018, 07:22:28 pm
You can own a BWM or a Fiat 500.   It still gets you from A to B using the same speed limits,  however it makes it a more enjoyable journey.

BMW  ;D

Whoops  :D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Jonny 87 on October 10, 2018, 10:16:05 pm
Jonny I have a top of the range LPG that I originally bought to install in a motorhome ( would equal any diesel heater when it comes to performance ) and I would be still using it now if it made the slightest difference to my working day.
My windows will be as clean as any hot user( fact) and my speed in other words how quick I can get the pole on the glass to give it a quick scrub will depend on my fitness, age, level of tiredness on the day and so on, not some magic potion or sledge hammer.
Im not saying that hot water wont clean stubborn bird poo, snail trails and so on slightly quicker than cold, what I'm saying is most of us wont be getting enough of them to make or see a difference.
Iv had guys who use PPB who say my windows wont be as clean, guys who use additives that say my windows wont be as clean and the same with hot users, I'm sure it only a matter of time before another fad/faff will come along and the users will say the same.

Top Of the range you say.  ;D

I’ll agree to disagree with you Sean.  :)

You telling me if you could have the option of flicking a switch and having nice hot water during the day, and a frost free van at night with no hassle you’d say no? It’s the cost that puts people off. Which I very much understand. It put me off for years too.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 11, 2018, 08:08:21 am
Jonny I have a top of the range LPG that I originally bought to install in a motorhome ( would equal any diesel heater when it comes to performance ) and I would be still using it now if it made the slightest difference to my working day.
My windows will be as clean as any hot user( fact) and my speed in other words how quick I can get the pole on the glass to give it a quick scrub will depend on my fitness, age, level of tiredness on the day and so on, not some magic potion or sledge hammer.
Im not saying that hot water wont clean stubborn bird poo, snail trails and so on slightly quicker than cold, what I'm saying is most of us wont be getting enough of them to make or see a difference.
Iv had guys who use PPB who say my windows wont be as clean, guys who use additives that say my windows wont be as clean and the same with hot users, I'm sure it only a matter of time before another fad/faff will come along and the users will say the same.

Top Of the range you say.  ;D

I’ll agree to disagree with you Sean.  :)

You telling me if you could have the option of flicking a switch and having nice hot water during the day, and a frost free van at night with no hassle you’d say no? It’s the cost that puts people off. Which I very much understand. It put me off for years too.


I bought my water heater about 14 years ago for around £1200, (Truma Aquago) the same model today costs around £3k which is a lot more than your diesel system is worth without the fitting costs, so yes its top of the range.
If it made a difference I would fit it tomorrow as its still like new, its wasting money that puts people off not cost.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 11, 2018, 11:53:57 am
Incase anybody is interested.
I had to phone heat rod about my thermostat and whilst on the phone I enquired if they did a 2kw 27inch immersion as online nothing was showing. It turns out they do and so I've ordered one myself. It happens to be the last one they have in stocks mind you, but, I'm sure they will re stock. So you have to order overthe phone and these are the details.

2kw 27inch immersion heater £40 plusVAT
HE227A
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Jonny 87 on October 11, 2018, 12:29:52 pm
Jonny I have a top of the range LPG that I originally bought to install in a motorhome ( would equal any diesel heater when it comes to performance ) and I would be still using it now if it made the slightest difference to my working day.
My windows will be as clean as any hot user( fact) and my speed in other words how quick I can get the pole on the glass to give it a quick scrub will depend on my fitness, age, level of tiredness on the day and so on, not some magic potion or sledge hammer.
Im not saying that hot water wont clean stubborn bird poo, snail trails and so on slightly quicker than cold, what I'm saying is most of us wont be getting enough of them to make or see a difference.
Iv had guys who use PPB who say my windows wont be as clean, guys who use additives that say my windows wont be as clean and the same with hot users, I'm sure it only a matter of time before another fad/faff will come along and the users will say the same.

Top Of the range you say.  ;D

I’ll agree to disagree with you Sean.  :)

You telling me if you could have the option of flicking a switch and having nice hot water during the day, and a frost free van at night with no hassle you’d say no? It’s the cost that puts people off. Which I very much understand. It put me off for years too.


I bought my water heater about 14 years ago for around £1200, (Truma Aquago) the same model today costs around £3k which is a lot more than your diesel system is worth without the fitting costs, so yes its top of the range.
If it made a difference I would fit it tomorrow as its still like new, its wasting money that puts people off not cost.

Woops, looks like I touched a nerve. Sorry Sean.  ;D

They say a fool and his money are easy parted. Some people are so foolish that they part with money and then leave it in a cupboard gathering dust, only to argue on a forum how pointless it is.

 ;)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 11, 2018, 04:08:56 pm
Jonny I have a top of the range LPG that I originally bought to install in a motorhome ( would equal any diesel heater when it comes to performance ) and I would be still using it now if it made the slightest difference to my working day.
My windows will be as clean as any hot user( fact) and my speed in other words how quick I can get the pole on the glass to give it a quick scrub will depend on my fitness, age, level of tiredness on the day and so on, not some magic potion or sledge hammer.
Im not saying that hot water wont clean stubborn bird poo, snail trails and so on slightly quicker than cold, what I'm saying is most of us wont be getting enough of them to make or see a difference.
Iv had guys who use PPB who say my windows wont be as clean, guys who use additives that say my windows wont be as clean and the same with hot users, I'm sure it only a matter of time before another fad/faff will come along and the users will say the same.

Top Of the range you say.  ;D

I’ll agree to disagree with you Sean.  :)

You telling me if you could have the option of flicking a switch and having nice hot water during the day, and a frost free van at night with no hassle you’d say no? It’s the cost that puts people off. Which I very much understand. It put me off for years too.


I bought my water heater about 14 years ago for around £1200, (Truma Aquago) the same model today costs around £3k which is a lot more than your diesel system is worth without the fitting costs, so yes its top of the range.
If it made a difference I would fit it tomorrow as its still like new, its wasting money that puts people off not cost.

Woops, looks like I touched a nerve. Sorry Sean.  ;D

They say a fool and his money are easy parted. Some people are so foolish that they part with money and then leave it in a cupboard gathering dust, only to argue on a forum how pointless it is.

 ;)

Totally agree about fools about and easily parted money ( there are some very good examples of that on here lol ) but I bought my heater to upgrade the one I had in my motorhome which I then removed when I sold it as it wouldn't have added to the vehicle resale value, in other words I would have been giving it away, now to use something that doesn't make the slightest difference to my working day just because I have it, well that would be truly foolish indeed.
As I have already said people can use all sorts of placebo's to compensate  for a lack of skill, knowledge or confidence in what they are using, ( you just have to look at additives lol ) but if it works for them hot water or other then its can still be money well spent and certainly wouldn't be pointless.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 11, 2018, 04:42:42 pm
I have to learn not to bite lol

But just because one's choose to use Hot water does not mean they lack skill nor knowledge on how to clean windows.  Let's face it, this is why most look down at window cleaners, it's not exactly rocket science to clean windows is it. 
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: dazmond on October 11, 2018, 04:48:06 pm
sean could have an argument in an empty room..... ;D

Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 11, 2018, 05:56:47 pm
I have to learn not to bite lol

But just because one's choose to use Hot water does not mean they lack skill nor knowledge on how to clean windows.  Let's face it, this is why most look down at window cleaners, it's not exactly rocket science to clean windows is it.

Some seem to think it is.lol
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: KS Cleaning on October 11, 2018, 10:41:29 pm
Incase anybody is interested.
I had to phone heat rod about my thermostat and whilst on the phone I enquired if they did a 2kw 27inch immersion as online nothing was showing. It turns out they do and so I've ordered one myself. It happens to be the last one they have in stocks mind you, but, I'm sure they will re stock. So you have to order overthe phone and these are the details.

2kw 27inch immersion heater £40 plusVAT
HE227A
So on what you have presently is that an upgrade, downgrade or are you unsure?🤪
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 12:09:24 am
For my money pinching, tight fisted yorkshire man ways this is an upgrade.
At the mo, I have my immersion on well before midnight where my cheaper tarrif lies.  Less time during day hours heating my water.
I'll let the big fish debate diesel heaters and van rentals during installation down time
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: windowswashed on October 12, 2018, 02:35:25 am
I own a diesel heater, have used it in the past, very impressive. Don't use it now as it's in my camper van.  Still use warm water now and again so best of both worlds
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 08:20:57 am
sean could have an argument in an empty room..... ;D

How many arguments did you have on here telling people that hot didnt make a difference ? more than a few. lol
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: ֍Winp®oClean֍ on October 12, 2018, 08:54:35 am
For my money pinching, tight fisted yorkshire man ways this is an upgrade.
At the mo, I have my immersion on well before midnight where my cheaper tarrif lies.  Less time during day hours heating my water.
I'll let the big fish debate diesel heaters and van rentals during installation down time

To achieve a shorter heating time you would be better upgrading your electrics to 16amp and installing a 3Kw element.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: P @ F on October 12, 2018, 10:37:16 am
I have looked into this as I am unsure as to refit my lpg  for this winter , I think Nath has a good setup because he doesn’t use the full 500 and is insulated he has a good starting temp at switch on , this is where most others are falling down as they empty the tanks daily and will have a very low start temp.

This is my problem , I have and use close to 350 a day , fitting a bigger tank is not an option as I drive a noddy van !
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 10:53:10 am
I have looked into this as I am unsure as to refit my lpg  for this winter , I think Nath has a good setup because he doesn’t use the full 500 and is insulated he has a good starting temp at switch on , this is where most others are falling down as they empty the tanks daily and will have a very low start temp.

This is my problem , I have and use close to 350 a day , fitting a bigger tank is not an option as I drive a noddy van !

Nathans  set up makes no sense, if you want an useful review on immersions then you need to ask somebody like Gold, with a 350ltr tank a 3kw on upgraded electrics should get you a decent daily temp.

If you have a 600ltr half full tank at say 60degrees and add 300ltrs of cold, it will be no different to heating the 300ltrs to 60 degrees on its own, unfortunately Nathans poor understanding of basic science lets him down.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 11:17:02 am
I have looked into this as I am unsure as to refit my lpg  for this winter , I think Nath has a good setup because he doesn’t use the full 500 and is insulated he has a good starting temp at switch on , this is where most others are falling down as they empty the tanks daily and will have a very low start temp.

This is my problem , I have and use close to 350 a day , fitting a bigger tank is not an option as I drive a noddy van !

Nathans  set up makes no sense, if you want an useful review on immersions then you need to ask somebody like Gold, with a 350ltr tank a 3kw on upgraded electrics should get you a decent daily temp.

If you have a 600ltr half full tank at say 60degrees and add 300ltrs of cold, it will be no different to heating the 300ltrs to 60 degrees on its own, unfortunately Nathans poor understanding of basic science lets him down.

I never claim to have any scientific excellence Sean, but I do know the results I have whilst you try and over think it without taking variables into account.
For instance, if my start temp after filling with cold water is 40 degrees or also the fact that my element is also still very hot etc, less time is needed to heat these aspects and start thermal circulation inside an insulated tank.
My set up may make no sense to some or most, but I work with very hot water (not warm) and I never have to worry about running out of water on a job, allowing me to take on as many new cleans or add on jobs as I wish.
I use a combination of solar and van battery to keep my leisure batteries topped up each and every night without the need to bench charge and I work pretty damn smart so I can get the most work done in the littlest of time so I can enjoy family time by having more days off than most. (or to spend it on here with some fun debates / tiffs 😂)
Oh yes, plus unlike most I use a large heavy brush with maximum jets which most consider pointless and back breaking but it works fantastically well for me 😂😂
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 12:48:09 pm
Ordered the new element yesterday mid morning and it's arrived today. So over the wknd the old will slide out and the new 2kw slip in. Happy days
(showing the lid, so there's no accusing me in later days as to if I know what element I have 😂)

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539344826_aviary-image-1539344376166.jpeg)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Jonny 87 on October 12, 2018, 01:51:57 pm
Ordered the new element yesterday mid morning and it's arrived today. So over the wknd the old will slide out and the new 2kw slip in. Happy days
(showing the lid, so there's no accusing me in later days as to if I know what element I have 😂)

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539344826_aviary-image-1539344376166.jpeg)

Your water is easily going to be warmed up to 150 degrees C now mate. It’s double the power you had before.  :D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 01:58:08 pm
I know right  ;D :D. Any lippy customer and I'll just melt the concrete out their house  ;D
But,
With great power comes great responsibility
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 03:13:50 pm
I have looked into this as I am unsure as to refit my lpg  for this winter , I think Nath has a good setup because he doesn’t use the full 500 and is insulated he has a good starting temp at switch on , this is where most others are falling down as they empty the tanks daily and will have a very low start temp.

This is my problem , I have and use close to 350 a day , fitting a bigger tank is not an option as I drive a noddy van !

Nathans  set up makes no sense, if you want an useful review on immersions then you need to ask somebody like Gold, with a 350ltr tank a 3kw on upgraded electrics should get you a decent daily temp.

If you have a 600ltr half full tank at say 60degrees and add 300ltrs of cold, it will be no different to heating the 300ltrs to 60 degrees on its own, unfortunately Nathans poor understanding of basic science lets him down.

I never claim to have any scientific excellence Sean, but I do know the results I have whilst you try and over think it without taking variables into account.
For instance, if my start temp after filling with cold water is 40 degrees or also the fact that my element is also still very hot etc, less time is needed to heat these aspects and start thermal circulation inside an insulated tank.
My set up may make no sense to some or most, but I work with very hot water (not warm) and I never have to worry about running out of water on a job, allowing me to take on as many new cleans or add on jobs as I wish.
I use a combination of solar and van battery to keep my leisure batteries topped up each and every night without the need to bench charge and I work pretty damn smart so I can get the most work done in the littlest of time so I can enjoy family time by having more days off than most. (or to spend it on here with some fun debates / tiffs 😂)
Oh yes, plus unlike most I use a large heavy brush with maximum jets which most consider pointless and back breaking but it works fantastically well for me 😂😂
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539353619_holes.jpg)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 04:25:10 pm
Picture for screen snap 😂😂

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539357908_aviary-image-1539357908417.jpeg)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 07:17:20 pm
Picture for screen snap 😂😂

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539357908_aviary-image-1539357908417.jpeg)


In your reality the laws of physics don't apply therefore its not my opinion that you should be worried about. lol
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 07:29:27 pm
I'm not going to put up the heating calculators again which these figures are worked out from,  but a 500ltr tank half full with water at around 50degrees, add 250ltrs of cold at around 10 degrees, would take the total temp down to around 27degrees, with a 1kw immersion it would take almost 36 hours to, bring it back to 70degrees, this would mean you would be lucky to get 2 workable days a week using if 70degree hot. ( these are all best case figures which don't take in heat loss and so forth ) .
Not joking Nathan but this makes your aquarium  heaters story look more plausible and it was total nonsense.
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Smudger on October 12, 2018, 07:31:57 pm
What was the aquarium heater story ? - I’d love to know


Is it as good as  he can carry an 1000 litre ibc tank around balanced on his kn0b ?

Darran
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 07:35:23 pm
What was the aquarium heater story ? - I’d love to know

Darran

He was getting his tank water up to 60degrees using two 500w aquarium heaters, I pointed out that aquarium heaters  are thermostatically controlled to protect the fish and would never go that high no matter how many you used. lol
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Smudger on October 12, 2018, 07:42:00 pm
I see,

Yes you are correct 34 degrees is the max they usually go regardless of wattage

Darran
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 08:27:38 pm
Wow, we're digging into the past a little there aren't we. 
So I did a thread about "finally on hot water"
(took me a while to find it, but I'm sure the forum. Police aka Sean will find any others)
It ran for several pages and my first attempt got into the 20's.and another attempt got me 40.     No where did I mention getting sixty degrees with tank heaters. Shamefully now looking back, I did ask if 60 would be too hot to clean windows, whereas experience as taught me that 60 n over is best for hot water cleaning.

Yes, I did carry the ibc tank, it was hard to do but it is possible.  I also had to lift it in and out of my van by myself. Yes I did say I would do a vid to show but that can definitely wait as at the mo I'm not as fit as i was three years back.  Lack of gym going, and a very easy life of wfp accounts for much of that, plus an ill wife which takes my time n commitment as well as looking after my three little kids rather than proving my past to guys on this forum who try n twist what I say or question my results, because they can't do the same. Yet they like to post how much weight they can bench press and how many times they like to go to the gym and be all manly like, but when it comes to using the muscles to pick up heavy objects other than their light weight brush on a light weight carbon pole then in their mind it can't possibly be achieved in any way shape or form.

I have produced videos, shared my findings but I suppose I can lie and misconstrue the information on camera...... But for what gain, what can I possibly get from doing so?
I have been able to use a 1kw heater to get over 60 degrees of hot water, if your not able to, I'm sorry for your inabilty to do so for whatever excuse.
Over the wknd I'm changing the element to help with costs and it was cost effective to replace due to the thermostat breaking on the old one, so might as well.   (my day tarrif is 15p per Kwh whereas my night tarrif is 7.5 (or there abouts), so yes very cost effective for myself.

I've been as black n white as I can be and I don't hide behind the keyboard as it were, as some lime to do so.   I've done vids to help others at no gain to myself.   
If that's not good enough, then a quote from Billy the kid in young guns comes to mind
You can kiss my A$$

Now, Where's my whiskey gone  ;D
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 08:28:38 pm
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539372490_Screenshot_20181012-195425.png)


(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1539372516_Screenshot_20181012-200307.png)
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: Dry Clean on October 12, 2018, 08:59:01 pm
Yes I can dig up other posts, but your are right the best you came up with was into the 40s with your fish tank heaters which still isn't possible.
Three questions, besides licking your finger and sticking it up in the air what  sort of experiments did you conduct to come to the conclusion that 60degrees was the optimum / best water temp to clean windows ? lol,  not joking but do ever listen to yourself ? and who threatened to take you to court ?
Title: Re: Heating water
Post by: nathankaye on October 12, 2018, 09:20:17 pm
Yes I can dig up other posts, but your are right the best you came up with was into the 40s with your fish tank heaters which still isn't possible.
Three questions, besides licking your finger and sticking it up in the air what  sort of experiments did you conduct to come to the conclusion that 60degrees was the optimum / best water temp to clean windows ? lol,  not joking but do ever listen to yourself ? and who threatened to take you to court ?

Again, misreading.
I didn't say anybody threatened to take me to court. (my post has been edited before this comment, if it can't be read) I was referencing how some have got the strop in the past and threatened court ie Marc!

As in my various posts I have tried many options to heat the water in my tank, which means I have worked with various degrees of warm/hot water to clean windows.   I have also posted various vids showing the temp ofthe water throughout the day and late night, along with the temp at the brush end.  I have also worked with cold water and various brushes and jet combinations to be more effective at my job. Therefore with this experience over a period of time and many years of cleaning glass, I have concluded that for my work, temperatures over 60 at the brush end is the sweet spot.

Haha since no one does listen to me mate, I have heard myself many a times 😂😂