Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Craig 72 on September 23, 2018, 08:14:53 am
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Morning all.I’ve been asked to price up for a school within the area that I work in NW Kent.They only want it done once a year inside and out,windows ranging from ground floor to about 50 ft up.I went round and totalled up the area of glass to be cleaned works out to be roughly 550m2.Obviously double that for inside as well.My only other commercial work is a fraction of the size of this so I don’t have anything to compare it with.Any tips/opinions on how to price this one up would be greatly appreciated.Cheers,Craig.
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Morning all.I’ve been asked to price up for a school within the area that I work in NW Kent.They only want it done once a year inside and out,windows ranging from ground floor to about 50 ft up.I went round and totalled up the area of glass to be cleaned works out to be roughly 550m2.Obviously double that for inside as well.My only other commercial work is a fraction of the size of this so I don’t have anything to compare it with.Any tips/opinions on how to price this one up would be greatly appreciated.Cheers,Craig.
How many pupils in the school? Just because it makes the scale easier to understand than square metres.
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Hi,I’ve got no idea how many kids go there but it’s a grammar school so would assume 1000+
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As you say you already do smaller commercials this is the perfect starting block for the larger job.
Break down the school into small parts and quote seperatly as if they are your smaller jobs. Just stand back looking at the section and do price as you normally would. Then add all the sections up. I then add PAT (Paul added tax) to the total. This would cover any bits I may have missed or problems I failed to spot. Don't be afraid to price on the higher side as it takes much longer to do as they tend to be minging.
As for the insides make it clear in writting that windows must be clear of tape, stickers and posters or they will be omitted from the clean.
Dont forget to ask what compliance is required. After they accept a quote it's always subject to compliance. By this time you have not factored the extra work in your quote. So ask at the start. They will probably ask for proof of insurance and they will most likely want £5 million. They may also ask for a risk assessment, method statement and even sometimes references.
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Thanks for that Paul,that’s helpful advice 👍
It looks to me like it’s reasonably new,in fact the windows looked not too bad at all.Quite a lot of high internal work which could be annoying though.I reckon realistically I’ll be looking in the region of between 2-3 days.
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Just follow wibbles advice as it’s spot on - just break it down into class rooms then add it all up if your thinking 2 to 3 days then price for 3
At the end of the day we don’t risk much in pricing up window cleaning if your underpriced you lose a good rate but unlike trades you haven’t paid out for materials
Schools can be hard work but they are a nice lump to bring in
Darran
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Hi,I’ve got no idea how many kids go there but it’s a grammar school so would assume 1000+
A school of 1,700 took us 5 man days to do the outside only. Be careful is what I'd sasy.,
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How dirty are the windows? I’d probably go in at £1.50 a sqm and add some on for good luck.
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How dirty are the windows? I’d probably go in at £1.50 a sqm and add some on for good luck.
In and out? Seriously?
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And be prepared to waste your time, I have priced five up this year and not got one, I pass all of them and none of them have had the windows cleaned since I quoted, the schools these days all have business managers, who are tasked with cost controlling and most simply do not have the cash to pay out for window cleaning at a reasnoble price, they think about having them done and when they get the quote fall over in shock and decide to spend the money on books,etc and leave the windows untill the budget is bigger.
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Most schools around my way want them cleaned cheap as chips, don't bother quoting anymore. Work out how long it will take and add on for the fact it's cleaned annually. Good point mentioned about tape, blue tac , etc on internal glass to be removed and allow for having to move things in front of the glass, as people forget. If you have enough regular work put in a crazy quote and if you get it then it's a bonus.
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Same as above.
I clean the windows of many teachers, who always recommend me to the schools to clean the windows. But they never like the quotes and always ask what's the lowest I can go, which is still no where close to the figures they have in mind.
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Really appreciate the advice from everybody.Some good points that I will bear in mind.I’m in a position where I have a lot of domestic work and a few smaller commercials so it’s not the end of the world if I don’t get it.Obviously it would be a nice bonus though.As suggested above I think I will be more likely to price up on the high side to cover the eventuality of it being a pain.
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The best way to price schools is to go in at your cheapest possible price.
Unless they're private ,schools are not fussed about window cleaning and have very little to no money so always go with the cheapest quote and tend to put them out each year.I've priced loads looked at one just last week.I was the fifth quote as they just wanted to get it done as cheap as possible.
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The best way to price schools is to go in at your cheapest possible price.
Unless they're private ,schools are not fussed about window cleaning and have very little to no money so always go with the cheapest quote and tend to put them out each year.I've priced loads looked at one just last week.I was the fifth quote as they just wanted to get it done as cheap as possible.
Why would you go in with a cheap price ? It’s a commercial job and probebly only going to be done once a year it has to be charged at a premium price or there is no point doing it just stick to the easier 4 weekly houses far more profitable, we have priced up several schools never got one don’t evan bother quoting theses days just say sorry far to busy
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It's ridiculous to suggest the school remove tape/glue etc from the inside windows first before you start. ::)roll
THATS WHAT THEIR PAYING YOU FOR!!!!!
I personally wouldn't take the job on and I'd pass their details on to another WC......simply because I wouldn't want a large job like that on my books anyway and certainly not once a year....the windows will be filthy and insides a nightmare....no thanks... ;D
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The best way to price schools is to go in at your cheapest possible price.
Unless they're private ,schools are not fussed about window cleaning and have very little to no money so always go with the cheapest quote and tend to put them out each year.I've priced loads looked at one just last week.I was the fifth quote as they just wanted to get it done as cheap as possible.
Why would you go in with a cheap price ? It’s a commercial job and probebly only going to be done once a year it has to be charged at a premium price or there is no point doing it just stick to the easier 4 weekly houses far more profitable, we have priced up several schools never got one don’t evan bother quoting theses days just say sorry far to busy
Exactly I'm fully commercial and I to believe they should attract a premium.But he asked how to price it and my point was doesn't matter how you price them if you want the job go in cheap as that's all they want.I clean ones and it pays well as it's a private school but cleaning a school once a year that resembles a builders clean doesn't interest me or most window cleaners that are full.
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Make sure you know EVERYTHING that's required.
I priced a school and they wanted the outside (and the inside of exterior windows only). Any windows which separated the classroom from the corridor, were not needed!
It was too big for me, so I gave it to a mate who specialises in this. It was minging!
He did it by plugging into the outside tap and having another windie follow him round with pure.
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I did a school for a mate of mine a few years ago.
It clearly hadn't been done for years but it had to be done for a school presentation s few days later. My mate reckoned it was a day and a half's work.
I had to do inside and out, and bearing in mind that I am trad and that the windows were minging, the job was a nightmare.
It took me 3 days and nights, 35 hours in all, working almost round the clock bar taking short breaks and a nap here and there.
I was so knackered afterwards that I needed a couple of days off to recover. Glad I never got to do it again!
John
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I've done a few schools before, and my advice is as follows:
Break it down into bitesize chunks for quoting purposes (as has been said).
Get the janitor to show you around. Not a teacher, nor an administrator or anyone else. A good way to do this is to tell them you'll need to know where the water access points are. The only person who will know this is the janitor, so (in my experience) he will be asked to show you around.
The janitor is the one who knows what needs doing and what doesn't. He is also the person who will be your champion to the finance bods when they are ready to keel over at your price. Get him on your side, and you've pretty much got the job. Be polite to him, NEVER swear in his company (remember he is around children all day, so has trained himself to curb swearing. He will notice if you swear and it will play against you.)
There's no need to go in cheap, that is totally self-defeating. A high price will be accepted if it is framed correctly, and championed by the janitor.
I would be against making demands like removing tape etc from the insides, as they will be very unlikely to be able to comply with it. (Who will do that? The teachers? Ha no. The janitor himself? too busy!). Instead, give them a choice. Either you can miss those windows, or for an additional 5% you can remove the tape yourself. (I would never remove posters or artwork from the windows, that's a class's work and they probably want it there).
Some schools will ask if you have a CRB check (or whatever it's called these days). If you do, great. If not, say not at present, but you have no objection to having one done if the cost of doing so is met by the school. This tells them that you've nothing to hide and most will simply drop it there. If they're willing to pay for it, all well and good. (If you have criminal convictions that will show up on a CRB check, don't even bother replying to a school asking for a quote).
Schools can be very profitable, easy work if you get them right.
Good luck!
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How dirty are the windows? I’d probably go in at £1.50 a sqm and add some on for good luck.
In and out? Seriously?
Each side.
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I don't understand pricing for window cleaning per square metre?
Do you take a tape measure with you when quoting?
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I don't understand pricing for window cleaning per square metre?
Do you take a tape measure with you when quoting?
likewise
doesn't mean a lot - rather see the job and get a feel whats needed - but everyones different i suppose
Darran
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I don't understand pricing for window cleaning per square metre?
Do you take a tape measure with you when quoting?
likewise
doesn't mean a lot - rather see the job and get a feel whats needed - but everyones different i suppose
Darran
Especially with schools. I wouldn’t touch one again unless I needed it as it will be slow finickety work and almost certainly a one off job.
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no schools are good - understand if your one/two man team as it will impact on regular work load which for a once/twice a year clean might not be worth the hassle
we have found 12 schools on the books ranging from small first schools that we clean every term and take 1 man around 2 hours to whopping academy's that require 4 men for 3 days
they make money but nothing truly outstanding however its the extra's you can pull out of it like gutter clearing - pressure washing or "emergency" cleaning when offstead are due that are worth having
Darran
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It's ridiculous to suggest the school remove tape/glue etc from the inside windows first before you start. ::)roll
THATS WHAT THEIR PAYING YOU FOR!!!!!
I personally wouldn't take the job on and I'd pass their details on to another WC......simply because I wouldn't want a large job like that on my books anyway and certainly not once a year....the windows will be filthy and insides a nightmare....no thanks... ;D
No that’s not what they are paying you for. Removing posters and cello tape etc is not Window cleaning. It is a very different job. More like builders clean. Hence I insist posters and blu tact etc must be removed because we won’t be removing it! It can add a rediculous amount of time on
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It's ridiculous to suggest the school remove tape/glue etc from the inside windows first before you start. ::)roll
THATS WHAT THEIR PAYING YOU FOR!!!!!
I personally wouldn't take the job on and I'd pass their details on to another WC......simply because I wouldn't want a large job like that on my books anyway and certainly not once a year....the windows will be filthy and insides a nightmare....no thanks... ;D
No that’s not what they are paying you for. Removing posters and cello tape etc is not Window cleaning. It is a very different job. More like builders clean. Hence I insist posters and blu tact etc must be removed because we won’t be removing it! It can add a rediculous amount of time on
I tend to agree. Even when they do remove it though, the residue is still there.
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Would it help if they cleaned the window for you 😁
Darran
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no schools are good - understand if your one/two man team as it will impact on regular work load which for a once/twice a year clean might not be worth the hassle
we have found 12 schools on the books ranging from small first schools that we clean every term and take 1 man around 2 hours to whopping academy's that require 4 men for 3 days
they make money but nothing truly outstanding however its the extra's you can pull out of it like gutter clearing - pressure washing or "emergency" cleaning when offstead are due that are worth having
Darran
I disagree with this Darran. I clean 4 schools and 1 large college/university, ranging from a small primary school that takes 4 hours to clean (4 times per year) right up to one that takes 6 man days to clean. (Annually)
All of them remove the posters and blue tack from the windows prior to me cleaning, this was specified before me taking the job on.
They are some of my best paying work when broken down to an hourly rate.
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Sorry deege, between auto correct and bad grammar that post didn’t come out very well
I meant - no, schools are good. not schools are no good!
Darran
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Sorry deege, between auto correct and bad grammar that post didn’t come out very well
I meant - no, schools are good. not schools are no good!
Darran
Grammar; the difference between knowing your sht and knowing you're sht.
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There is no debate about who's job it is to remove tape and stickers off the windows. It's all part of the negotiation on price. Make sure you price accordingly for the work required rather than complaining its not worth the the hastle.
Make it clear with the site manager what needs doing presenting him with available options. If you explain that removing tape etc would double the price as it doubles the time. Site manager would probably agree its better value to get the teachers with the help of the kids to remove their own artwork if they want them cleaning.
Just make sure you fully understand what the site manager wants and talk through options. When quoting itemise each option seperatly so they can make their decisions on what level of service they require.
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Sorry deege, between auto correct and bad grammar that post didn’t come out very well
I meant - no, schools are good. not schools are no good!
Darran
😂 amazing how one comma can change the whole context of a sentence.
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There is no debate about who's job it is to remove tape and stickers off the windows. It's all part of the negotiation on price. Make sure you price accordingly for the work required rather than complaining its not worth the the hastle.
Make it clear with the site manager what needs doing presenting him with available options. If you explain that removing tape etc would double the price as it doubles the time. Site manager would probably agree its better value to get the teachers with the help of the kids to remove their own artwork if they want them cleaning.
Just make sure you fully understand what the site manager wants and talk through options. When quoting itemise each option seperatly so they can make their decisions on what level of service they require.
Good post Paul. Nailed it.
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I priced a school a few years ago 12-1400 pupils,I walked round with the caretaker-burser,all to be cleaned inside and outside once a year and outside only once a year. I got 2/3rds of the way round and said for inside and outside we are over the 2.5 k Mark they stopped me and said really,I said well yeah it’s going to take 3 of us minimum to clean it. They then said we will give you a clue the other firm was cleaning it for 1200 in and out and 800 outside only,completely pointless contemplating jobs like that if you’ve got decent domestic work years ago you’d get good money cleaning schools and massive Tesco’s etc those days are long gone people are cleaning them for peanuts.
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Another thing worth knowing is that unless you personally know someone that can chase payment for you it can take 4-5 months to receive your money,I know someone he cleaned it in summer got paid the end of that winter.
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Forever negative nwh
Our schools have always been prompt payers - always in the first week of the new term, so usually within 7 days of the clean
Darran
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I have done 5 quotes for schools this year and won 4 of them. All pays double what I earn for a day on domestic. All paid within 2 weeks of term start.
PO numbers supplied by all.
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All I’m saying I’d have to charge old school prices so to speak to make it worth putting my regulars on hold ,it all depends what you earn and perceive good money to be,if your earning usually 200 a day on your houses 300 doing a school would be good. This is my point there’s to many people employing having to cut your throat for the job to pay wages,at the end of the day to them it might just be turnover to pay the bills,if I do a commercial it has to be over and above what I’d do on houses as commercial jobs will blink and your gone for pennies less to the next cleaner happens on a daily basis.
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I appreciate the advice from everybody.Seems a difference of opinion on whether schools are worth taking on but I'd like to do it if possible as you never know where it might lead.For anybody interested,I put in a quote at £1200.I am thinking it would take me around 4 days with the chance of it going over a bit if needs be.The guy I'm dealing with said that the price wasn't unreasonable but due to the fact that it's over £1000 they will have to get comparison quotes.I've taken this as a little nudge to me that £1000 would secure the job.I'm more than happy if I secure it for that even if it takes me a week.
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Just stick to your guns mate. Dont reduce the price at this stage. He probably already asked for a few quotes with many not turning up or lacked of confidence.
Probably just needs to get it signed off and trying his luck at getting you to budge on price.
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I've just had a fee paying school contact me for a quote. Victorian sash windows and not been cleaned for years. I said no thanks. It will be a mare of a job. a one off and the vans are full anyway. They are only worth doing if you have spare capacity in my opinion unless they are to be a regular clean.
I've no idea where the OP is or what he's used to earning but £1,200 for even a moderately sized secondary school is seriously cheap. In my opinion. A 400 pupil primary school took us 2.5 man days in and out (not been cleaned for two years) and a 1700 secondary school took 5 man days outside only and half the windows were new (the other half were minging though).
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I've just had a fee paying school contact me for a quote. Victorian sash windows and not been cleaned for years. I said no thanks. It will be a mare of a job. a one off and the vans are full anyway. They are only worth doing if you have spare capacity in my opinion unless they are to be a regular clean.
I've no idea where the OP is or what he's used to earning but £1,200 for even a moderately sized secondary school is seriously cheap. In my opinion. A 400 pupil primary school took us 2.5 man days in and out (not been cleaned for two years) and a 1700 secondary school took 5 man days outside only and half the windows were new (the other half were minging though).
Agree with this. I would have quoted probably a around 2k. Only worth the job if it pays double your normal days rate. So if you put work on hold to accommodate this then you are quids in. If you push work back just to accomadate a school at your normal rate then you're just wasting your time with a job that's not commercially viable.
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Well 4 days for £1200 isn’t bad assuming it’s just one man - certainly worth having a crack at if you fancy doing this type of work then at least you have experience going forward
Darran
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Ok gents,thanks again for the input.I'll keep with my original price.£1200 is cheap!I was thinking that it would be too high.Literally have nothing to compare it against annoyingly.If I can get it for that I'll be happy enough.Two of the days work I can do over the weekend so if it takes me 4-5 days I would only be losing 2-3 days from my normal working week.I'd sooner have it than not,I think.
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The thing to bear in mind also is that it's non stop work. Four days normal work is probably 4/5 hours working and 1/2 hours driving. A school we found is 8 hours slog. All that said, if you've got the time, i.e., you're not full then great.
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The thing to bear in mind also is that it's non stop work. Four days normal work is probably 4/5 hours working and 1/2 hours driving. A school we found is 8 hours slog. All that said, if you've got the time, i.e., you're not full then great.
exactly....... itll be very hard work.........sometimes its not worth it even if your getting paid more money than your usual window cleaning work....money isnt everything once you reach a certain level of income....
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If you do get it borrow a Gardiners SL modular pole as they are so much lighter and more rigid and ideal for big jobs, not so strenuous as heavier telescopic poles,
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Well 4 days for £1200 isn’t bad assuming it’s just one man - certainly worth having a crack at if you fancy doing this type of work then at least you have experience going forward
Darran
Like I said Darren it’s no good if you can earn more on domestics 😂 schools are a nightmare and any such similar work,labels tape and blue tack galore enjoy the learning curve pal.
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Sorry mate, l always forget ( don’t know why as you constantly bang on about it ) you earn £300 p/h on domestics - your rate is soooo good you do the conservatories for free!
Not everyone is in that position and if it’s bringing in more than just windows good luck to him - it will either go well or at the very least know that is underpriced and correct it for next time
Darran
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The point is a lot say schools-commercial are the be all and end all of WCleaning,the fact is they are if it’s priced correctly and you will keep them as long as you’d like to continue to clean them. The fact is this kind of work is done these days for a fraction of the price it once was due to multi nationals and larger firms cleaning them for no more than a daily rate,I know people used to clean large showrooms and supermarkets and earn 2-3 days money starting at 4am and finishing at around 10-11,not anymore those days are behind us.
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Did this place a couple of years back - 8K.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1538084931_Screenshot_2018-09-27 22.48.23_RyZcDh.png)
Two of us there full time 10 days straight.
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Did this place a couple of years back - 8K.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1538084931_Screenshot_2018-09-27 22.48.23_RyZcDh.png)
Two of us there full time 10 days straight.
Was it worth letting the rest of your work get 10 days behind (assuming you’re full) for £400 per (man) day?
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It paid my tax bill. I thoroughly enjoyed it regardless.
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The point is a lot say schools-commercial are the be all and end all of WCleaning,the fact is they are if it’s priced correctly and you will keep them as long as you’d like to continue to clean them. The fact is this kind of work is done these days for a fraction of the price it once was due to multi nationals and larger firms cleaning them for no more than a daily rate,I know people used to clean large showrooms and supermarkets and earn 2-3 days money starting at 4am and finishing at around 10-11,not anymore those days are behind us.
i don't think any cleaning is the be all end all, schools are not regular enough to be that. however they are a nice addition, again a lot depends on the company, if your only making a standard day rate and pushing work back then its not worth doing - why jeopardise and delay your regular work ( altho many do this anyway ) but if there is a premium on it and you can adjust staff to fit it in then yes they are good, the same applies for any of our 1 off works, pressure washing, roof cleaning, graffiti removal etc..
also by having a school on the books you are more likely to get more - we clean an 'academy' school who have now taken over several others in the area and we are their first port of call for cleaning - not just windows but gutters as well
Darran