Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Gourlay on March 17, 2004, 10:25:25 pm
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I do not have up to date cat but I believe you can get a Ninja with a water pump at 400psi.
What is the advantage./
Does it put too much water on the carpet?
or does it aid Fast Dry process in some way
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Ian,
Yes the Ninja has a 400psi option.
To understand the advantage of higher presures we should examine how we remove soil from a carpet.
Chemical - pre-sprays, tank addatives & water break down/disolve/suspend soil.
Mechanical - basicaly brush action and physical disturbance by jets of the wand, coupled with the vacuum recovery.
By increasing the pump pressure we can increase the mechanical disturbance.
The amount of water delivered is a function of the jetting. Finer jets deliver less water, at higher speed and normaly smaller droplets.
When a droplet hits the carpet it's ability to penetrate and to dislodge insolubles is dependant on its' 'energy'. This momentum is dependant on its' mass and its' velocity. This is where a balance has to be struck when deciding on the jetting, which should supply suficient water for adiquate flushing but on so much that it outmatches the recovery capability. Roughly speaking the mass/velocity tends to be self balancing since velocity increase corelates to mass reduction and vice versa.
If the balances are correctly struck then it can lead to reduced dry-times if wrong, can lead to over-wetting.
John.
PS I have taken some liberties with the precise physics for the purposes of simplification.
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One thing to bear in mind with this option is that you cannot have auto fill and chemical dosing, as the pump recirculates some water back into the solution tank, which would increase the solution strength. So if the jetting is wrong, not only will you over wet, but you will have to re-fill more often.
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Sorry Dave,
Perhaps I am miss-reading your post - surely if there is a bypass back to the tank, it is the solution that came from the tank and therefore will not effect the solution strength ?
John.
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John,
If you have auto fill you have to have chemical dosing. Because as the tank auto fills, if you dont bleed fresh chemical into the tank it dilutes the solution.
Although if your using micro splitters then the tank would only have fresh water in it, so then it would be ok.
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John,
Sorry it still dosen't make sense. Answer 2.
The main tank has fresh water, there is a container of stock solution a la T/M.
This is fed via a reg valve into the suction side of the pump. the pump then delivers a mix of water and solution.
With a 400 psi pump there is a pressure regulator, which feeds excess water back into the main tank, this would have solution in as well, adding solution into the fresh water. Also it would pull solution all the time regardless of the trigger.
Thats what I meant to say before. Old age and late hours. Thats my excuse.
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Dave,
That does make perfect sense. I was thinking in terms of a Ninja, where with auto-fill the dosing was into the 'auto-filled' water and the solution tank would have water+chemical in it, Rather than the TM 'last-stage' doseing.
John.
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Hi Guys
tank contents and auto feed not an issue if you are using a Micro splitting chemical
Solving problem with Solution
Ha ha excuse the pun.
Best regards Nick
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These 400 psi pumps ! Are they diaphram or piston, or neither ?
I believe Ashbys used to fit high pressure pumps several years ago, but I seem to remember Derek telling me that because of unreliability, they stopped using them.
Have these problems now been solved ? If they have, I will be tempted to get one myself.
Bryan
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Bryan,
I have a ninja, with a 400psi pump,it is pretty reliable but I 've gone through two of the actual gauges themselves. Now I run it without one and it seems to have increased pressure.
The real advantage with it are not having to pull the thing upstairs as that is a real ball ache as it now runs on 75ft of hose without loosing too much pressure
It usues up it's water supply pretty quick,so I've fitted a ball valve which self fills from the cold water mains.
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Catman,
Are you using Micro Spliters and just rinsing.
Cant see how carpet is as dry as 135psi if you are putting more water into carpet can understand increase flush rinse factor etc but if twin vacs cope seems good.
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Ian,
Answer to your first question is yes.
The second point is although you are using more water @ 400psi, you are also cleaning quicker. I upgraded from the 125psi, it makes a hell of a difference.
At this pressure we also use the ctr upholstery tool (also got the different jets), no water splashs etc, again the speed in suite cleaning has been upped with outstanding results, and although pumping out 400psi, the suite is almost dry on leaving. If you have got the cash I would strongly recommend a new pump and tool. Until the public see the results of such work, they think carpet cleaners work with a vax, well some do, unfortunatly tarring the rest of us with the same brush.
Onething I would say is if you can get a pump , then fit it yourself, Ashbys let me down badly, they said, after the machine had been sent, they were busy with an exhibition, Took over two weeks, wouldn't recommend.
regards
catman
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Catman,
Thanks for info, but can you still use flow control valve on Ninja ? I use a Prochem up' tool & even 135 psi is too much on upholstery.
Years ago when I upgraded from 60 to 100 psi I saved 25% in time & also used far less water, as it so much more effective. Even using a single vac the carpet was no wetter when finished.
Bryan
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How much would it cost to buy pumps
Then we need pull your machine to bits day.
Disapointed about reports regarding ASHBYS SERVICE as one of their selling points is You can Upgrade your machines to keep them up to date. Without having to buy a new one
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The Ninja still has the flow control and it has a brass control valve to adjust the pressure as you please.
Upgrading yourself shoul not be a problem, as you can buy them in a kit form, try Steambrite.com, you'll see what I mean. Also I can take digital photo's for you and e-mail them across. You could also buy the kit, and get another workshop to do it. I know Host-Von-Schroeder service different machine other than their own
You could use Ashby's, and tie them in to a fixed time to supply and fit. For each day they go over they incurr a 10% penalty.
I once sent them back a V2 steam-mate. Originally after having it for four weeks they couldn't find it.
Good ideas, machines etc, terrible back up servive
Catman
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Catman,
Sorry to hear you have had bad service from Ashbys.
Personally I have always had excellent service from them, my only complaint being that they do not move closer to my base :)
I suspect that just about any supplier in our business, or any doctor, dentist, whatever, will have their detractors and others who swear by them.
John.
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Catman
I do understand where you are coming from, but sadly we are all let down some times by some one, that life!! On three or four occasions last year I had to pull out of jobs due to machine/traffic problems, but always smooth it over with them and give a small discount as I want to keep them as a customer.
Len
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The 400 psi pump is a piston pump. The reason flow metering couldn't be used is that the pump uses a unloader type valve to set the pressure of the pump ; Meaning that it constantly takes solution from the clean tank and bleeds the excess back to the tank once the spring in the valve is overcome. The chemical metering on there setup comes into the pumps supply line so it would empty all the detergent into the clean tank. Shame of it all is that there isn't flow from the pump to use a venturi feed setup. Suppose they could have used a water powered dosing valve.
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i hav auto chem on my 400psi ninja it works on my 12volt 100psi pump which is conected to my 200 ltr fresh water tank which supplys my ninja
i also find the ninjas dont use as water and leaves the carpet dryer with a built in v2 heater as the water is coming out very hot/steam even using 100ft hose
gary
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I've got 400psi. I use two 110 degree 015 jets. I wont use 400psi very often because I find that it overwets the carpet. What jet sizes are you using if you're happy that you're not overwetting at 400psi.
I dont think that 001's will flush enough.
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aint got clue
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OK THEN... ::)
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but i know they are brass ones lol
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;D
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Mine are stainless steel :o ;D ;D
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So there! ;D