Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Seamus F Campbell on September 10, 2018, 09:06:07 pm
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Hello some really helpful advice on here from you Pros really appreciate the invaluable information.
After a long battle with anxiety & depression linked to my previous job as a area sales manager for Yell.com, I am never returning to this job again.
I really like the thought of Window & Gutter Cleaning.
I'm 36 years of age so hoping it's not too late to build a business, I would appreciate some advice.
I only have 4 grand max in startup costs would I be better going trad & spending a larger amount on marketing or going WFP if going WFP I doubt I'd have enough left over to market effectively.
I have additional money for my rent & all bills for 6 months wile I build a sustainable window cleaning round.
I've been practicing Trad methods for a few months on my families properties & have got upto a good standard, what do you think would be best for starting WFP or Trad in my circumstances?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
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I set up my own DIY 350L van system (including cost of van) for much less than £4k so you have plenty of savings to allow you to go WFP... Trad is useful for insides but use WFP for outsides - much quicker for a beginner and also safer! Buy yourself a TDS meter to start off with to check your water hardness. Then all you need is:
- A way of purifying the water (I use just DI since I'm in a soft water area). You might need an RO if you live in a hard water area.
- Backpack
- 25L barrels
- Water fed pole
Get some business cards & leaflets from Vistaprint, a sweatshirt with your logo & get door knocking.
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I don't want to put you off and please don't take this negatively. However, ensuring you have sufficient funds for six months only may be a little optimistic for a new business venture with little practical knowledge in the field your venturing into.
Are you planing on building your round from self marketing or are you planning on purchasing a round? I would be careful on pinning hopes on rounds which are purchased as you are not always guaranteed the customers and most charge over the odds. Building a round also brings its own struggles. Therefore budget probably for longer than six months if this is going to be your only source of income.
Trad work is up close and personal. Therefore if you are practising then atleast you know straight away if your technique is good or not. Whereas wfp may look easier (and in so many ways it is), the correct technique however takes time to master, along with working out about problem seals etc. All things that can potentially slow down plans to build a sustainable round quickly.
On the budget your suggesting, both can be easily done. Either trad or wfp (especially on a DIY system)
and I'm sure many will come along and advice on that aspect.
Just thought I would throw in a couple of concerns that may or may not have been considered already
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I have additional money for my rent & all bills for 6 months wile I build a sustainable window cleaning round.
I started up similar to yourself, with a lump sum from the army.
I ended up doing some weekend security work to help make ends meet.
It's hard starting from scratch and although there might be some whizz-kids here who can knock up a great paying round in a few months, it took me quite a few years and it's still a work in progress.
Good luck and go WFP. Squeegies are slow and for inside jobs only (mostly anyway).
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I set up my own DIY 350L van system (including cost of van) for much less than £4k so you have plenty of savings to allow you to go WFP... Trad is useful for insides but use WFP for outsides - much quicker for a beginner and also safer! Buy yourself a TDS meter to start off with to check your water hardness. Then all you need is:
- A way of purifying the water (I use just DI since I'm in a soft water area). You might need an RO if you live in a hard water area.
- Backpack
- 25L barrels
- Water fed pole
Get some business cards & leaflets from Vistaprint, a sweatshirt with your logo & get door knocking.
Hello Cookie,
Thank you so much for the information. I never considered a DIY wfp van system maybe a good solution to get me going. Also thanks for letting me know about Vistaprint looks cost effective. Yes I actually like canvassing done door2door sales in my 20s so am used to the knock backs, & interesting characters😂
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I don't want to put you off and please don't take this negatively. However, ensuring you have sufficient funds for six months only may be a little optimistic for a new business venture with little practical knowledge in the field your venturing into.
Are you planing on building your round from self marketing or are you planning on purchasing a round? I would be careful on pinning hopes on rounds which are purchased as you are not always guaranteed the customers and most charge over the odds. Building a round also brings its own struggles. Therefore budget probably for longer than six months if this is going to be your only source of income.
Trad work is up close and personal. Therefore if you are practising then atleast you know straight away if your technique is good or not. Whereas wfp may look easier (and in so many ways it is), the correct technique however takes time to master, along with working out about problem seals etc. All things that can potentially slow down plans to build a sustainable round quickly.
On the budget your suggesting, both can be easily done. Either trad or wfp (especially on a DIY system)
and I'm sure many will come along and advice on that aspect.
Just thought I would throw in a couple of concerns that may or may not have been considered already
Hello Nathan,
Thank you for such a detailed reply, I believe you are right regarding my funds for 6 months its not much. Maybe I could get a part time job in Asda stacking shelves at night to help me a little. I plan on self marketing to build a round, I would be too inexperienced & scared 😱 to buy a round.
I was going to drop leaflets and go knocking the same doors 2 days later & post into FB buy & Sell groups, maybe try a paid ad on FB for same area as well. Yea I bet it takes time to master WFP the fella around my way leaves my windows in a right oul state when he's done 🤣 like white spotting and water 💦 comes in through the vents he's not been at it long so maybe he'll master wfp too.
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I have additional money for my rent & all bills for 6 months wile I build a sustainable window cleaning round.
I started up similar to yourself, with a lump sum from the army.
I ended up doing some weekend security work to help make ends meet.
It's hard starting from scratch and although there might be some whizz-kids here who can knock up a great paying round in a few months, it took me quite a few years and it's still a work in progress.
Good luck and go WFP. Squeegies are slow and for inside jobs only (mostly anyway).
Hello,
I'm happy you made it out of the army alive hope you didn't see too much craziness, thank you very much for advice I really appreciate you taking the time to respond,i wish you great success with your business.
Thank You!
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It really comes down to you and your own drive to succeed 4K is a truly wealthy sum to start off with IF you spend wisely and only buy what you need rather what you want - 9 years ago I had £1200 to my name and 3 months wages from ‘gardening leave’ that was to cover the business costs, mortgage everything.
I brought a cheap van, diy fitted a system, merlin RO filtration and then went out door knocking - every day and every evening I did trad and wfp cleaning I made my own flyers but essentially canvass, canvass, canvass by month 3 I was bringing in enough to pay the bills, from there I kept building and canvassing which then allowed for better van and equipment
So basically if your deadicated you will succeed, remember though NEVER price to cheap, and don’t take on cr@p work just for the sake of it (unless it pays well) because you could canvass better work instead of wasting time
Darran
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It really comes down to you and your own drive to succeed 4K is a truly wealthy sum to start off with IF you spend wisely and only buy what you need rather what you want - 9 years ago I had £1200 to my name and 3 months wages from ‘gardening leave’ that was to cover the business costs, mortgage everything.
I brought a cheap van, diy fitted a system, merlin RO filtration and then went out door knocking - every day and every evening I did trad and wfp cleaning I made my own flyers but essentially canvass, canvass, canvass by month 3 I was bringing in enough to pay the bills, from there I kept building and canvassing which then allowed for better van and equipment
So basically if your deadicated you will succeed, remember though NEVER price to cheap, and don’t take on cr@p work just for the sake of it (unless it pays well) because you could canvass better work instead of wasting time
Darran
Hello Darren,
Thanks for the positivity & well done to you on your success, had a look at your website must say it's very professional & user friendly you offer alot of services now from your humble beginnings 9 years ago. well done! So door knocking seems to be the route to success, funny I've been in sales most of my life both telesales & canvassing, both b2b & b2c, since I took a mental breakdown a few years ago I've lost all confidence so it'll be real challenging getting back my confidence, but hey I'll bang them doors down. Thanks Again.
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I have additional money for my rent & all bills for 6 months wile I build a sustainable window cleaning round.
I started up similar to yourself, with a lump sum from the army.
I ended up doing some weekend security work to help make ends meet.
It's hard starting from scratch and although there might be some whizz-kids here who can knock up a great paying round in a few months, it took me quite a few years and it's still a work in progress.
Good luck and go WFP. Squeegies are slow and for inside jobs only (mostly anyway).
Hello,
I'm happy you made it out of the army alive hope you didn't see too much craziness, thank you very much for advice I really appreciate you taking the time to respond,i wish you great success with your business.
Thank You!
Please don’t get him talking about the war!
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It really comes down to you and your own drive to succeed 4K is a truly wealthy sum to start off with IF you spend wisely and only buy what you need rather what you want - 9 years ago I had £1200 to my name and 3 months wages from ‘gardening leave’ that was to cover the business costs, mortgage everything.
I brought a cheap van, diy fitted a system, merlin RO filtration and then went out door knocking - every day and every evening I did trad and wfp cleaning I made my own flyers but essentially canvass, canvass, canvass by month 3 I was bringing in enough to pay the bills, from there I kept building and canvassing which then allowed for better van and equipment
So basically if your deadicated you will succeed, remember though NEVER price to cheap, and don’t take on cr@p work just for the sake of it (unless it pays well) because you could canvass better work instead of wasting time
Darran
The last sentence is key. I would add to that that when building a round you are better spending an hour leafleting than doing a one off window clean.
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On that budget you could start of with a trailer system. Do you have a car already that can pull? You just need a towbar. This will help save you money buying a van which you can do later once you are established.
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It really comes down to you and your own drive to succeed 4K is a truly wealthy sum to start off with IF you spend wisely and only buy what you need rather what you want - 9 years ago I had £1200 to my name and 3 months wages from ‘gardening leave’ that was to cover the business costs, mortgage everything.
I brought a cheap van, diy fitted a system, merlin RO filtration and then went out door knocking - every day and every evening I did trad and wfp cleaning I made my own flyers but essentially canvass, canvass, canvass by month 3 I was bringing in enough to pay the bills, from there I kept building and canvassing which then allowed for better van and equipment
So basically if your deadicated you will succeed, remember though NEVER price to cheap, and don’t take on cr@p work just for the sake of it (unless it pays well) because you could canvass better work instead of wasting time
Darran
:) I remember those early days. My first thought was who in his right mind would name his business Oddbods, but the proof of the pudding is in its eating.
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With what you did before you should be fine with canvasing with your sales skills.
Remember there will always be a drop out with cancellations and messers from canvasing so factor this into your target plan.
Over the last decade its been harder to gain a decent round due to the increase in window cleaners starting out but work is out there if you stay resilient and focused and prepared to put in the time.
There are a few others on here that may be able to help talk through their experiences dealing with depression whilst working in this industry.
Are you planning on using yell?
Good luck with it.
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There are some window cleaners on the forum from sothern Ireland, and may be able to give you more advice on local pricing.
My Son is in County Tipperary and has worked with me in the uk since 15yrs of age. He said they tend to price higher as the cleans are not done so freeqently.
Hope you do well.
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Practice cleaning until you have the basic skill and a rough idea on how much work you could knock out in an hour, decide what you will need to earn an hour to cover both your wages and expenses, get out and start knocking on doors, with your sales background canvassing for work shouldn't be a problem.
The tools you use will be up to you, when starting up traditional tools/methods are cheaper with less faff, the downside will be the ladder risks, wouldn't worry about it being slower as maximising profit is not something you need to worry about until your round is full of custom, remember starting up using a slower method for X means X plus when you move over to the quicker method.
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To start from scratch without borrowing money.
Start canvassing now and say you are "expanding your round" into the area or "you have a couple of customers who are moving in to the area who want you to do their windows" and you are trying to build up around them.
Except for inside work DO NOT GO TRAD.
Get a part time job that takes little mental effort out of you (ASDA/BandQ/Postie) - say two/three days a week - that you will drop/reduce when you build up your round. Especially going into winter, it is a tougher time to start.
Go WFP - do you have a hatchback car? If so ...
Buy 6 x 25L barrels, a backpack and a 25ft SLX carbon fibre pole.
Buy a 1000 litre caged cube storage tank and pump and hoses.
If your TDS water reading is above about 100 get an RO to produce water straight away, if lower start with resin only.
By next February you will know if you have succeeded - by which I mean got (monthly) over 500 quid's worth of customers and worked out what suits you in the way of round building.
If you have and you know you want to run a window cleaning business go all out for an Easter start. Get canvassing hard around all your work. When you get to a 1000 a month and you're heartily fed up with lugging barrels and going back to fill them up get a "reliable" van with three seats, a 650L tank and a 1000kg plus payload. (You will think you will never manage to get through 650L in a day but you may take on a dirty windowed school or block of flats or have some part time assistance occasionally)
The £1000 you have you will be able to do with van and tank as quickly as you did £500 with the car and barrels. When you get to £1500/2000 drop your job and build on to/past £3000.
Some will do it in a year - some will buy bits and pieces of work from other window cleaners - some will take 5 years. Do "you" and use this forum.
Ask away and best of luck! Tho' largely you will make your own.
DO NOT GO TRAD.
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It really comes down to you and your own drive to succeed 4K is a truly wealthy sum to start off with IF you spend wisely and only buy what you need rather what you want - 9 years ago I had £1200 to my name and 3 months wages from ‘gardening leave’ that was to cover the business costs, mortgage everything.
I brought a cheap van, diy fitted a system, merlin RO filtration and then went out door knocking - every day and every evening I did trad and wfp cleaning I made my own flyers but essentially canvass, canvass, canvass by month 3 I was bringing in enough to pay the bills, from there I kept building and canvassing which then allowed for better van and equipment
So basically if your deadicated you will succeed, remember though NEVER price to cheap, and don’t take on cr@p work just for the sake of it (unless it pays well) because you could canvass better work instead of wasting time
Darran
:) I remember those early days. My first thought was who in his right mind would name his business Oddbods, but the proof of the pudding is in its eating.
Haha - the name was a gamble, but it does stick in peoples minds - even if they usually refer to us odds and sods ;D
- which in essence i was originally starting out as oddbods for all your odd jobs 8)
window cleaning just went ballistic so dropped the grass cutting, diy, and other manual work :D
Darran
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I have just come back from a long weekend in Dublin, very nice place. Lots and lots of filthy windows. Hit it hard and you should do ok.
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All good advice on here.
My tuppence worth.
1. Be consistent.
2. Stick to your pricing. Don't go low just to get the work in, you will regret it.
3. Always remember the customers point of view is the most important if you want to keep them.
4. Be prepared for alot of hard slog to start with, if you manage to turn over an actual £15k of revenue throughput in your 1st year, then you are doing really well (Don't get this confused with customer signups, as that's a different figure, aim for £25k of new customers and that will translate to around 15-20k of actual revenue throughout in your 1st year.)
5. Keep the new business activity going, expect to loose upto 20 percent of your new signups in 5 years due to various consequences.
6. Try to run your business on the 3rd rule. 3rd away for tax; 3rd away for business expenses and marketing/growth, and the 3rd goes to you as actual wages you can use to live day to day.
7. Understand that people will take thier time to pay you. At any one time expect to have at least half of the money owed to you that will come in over the next few weeks, you can mitigate this by going to go cardless, to take DD, and get a card payment machine.
8. Dont waste your money on "thermopure" or anything else with flashy neons and slogans.
9. Do spend your money on a decent pole and hoses. Gardiners are the industry leaders.
10. Be patient.
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I'm 36 years of age so hoping it's not too late to build a business, I would appreciate some advice.
I only have 4 grand max in startup costs would I be better going trad & spending a larger amount on marketing or going WFP if going WFP I doubt I'd have enough left over to market effectively.
I have additional money for my rent & all bills for 6 months wile I build a sustainable window cleaning round.
I've been practicing Trad methods for a few months on my families properties & have got upto a good standard, what do you think would be best for starting WFP or Trad in my circumstances?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
It's doable with WFP or trad.
I didn't start until I was nearly 35.
If you have a car you can stick a ladder on it. You can also invest £100 or so in a backpack (not to wear on your back) and a basic pole and brush plus some 25 litre containers. You will also need a resin vessel for filtering. Also, a few hoselock type fittings (or similar would be good.
Now it would be a lot more convenient if you could buy better equipment than the basics, but the above items would be enough to get you started. Of course, it helps if you're not too bothered about the car being messy and spilling water inside it.
At a push you could connect a resin vessel onto a tap and run water through it slowly into the 25 litre containers. You might even have a Spotless Water station near you (google it).
Obviously a van, professionally fitted tank, and quality poles etc. are better, but it's not critical to have them from the beginning.
I started in my mid 30s with a clapped out Datsun Cherry hatchback, a few scrims/bucket etc. I even borrowed the ladder from a plumber who was out of trade. I had about £200 left in the bank.
I won't pretend it wasn't hard for the first year starting from zero customers when mortgage rates were 15%. There were even a few days when I lived on pasta, toast, and tomato ketchup (I kid you not!), but I got by. This was before WFP was widely known about so I was using ladder and squeegee.
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same here Walter I started with nothing after chucking a very stressful well paid job. No modern equipment and no clue. After making a few quid over the years and reinvesting in my business I'm now doing ok. I've just spent this evening rigging out a 64 plate pickup with the best of gear ready for work tomorrow so Seamus take on board the good advice that people offer on here and give it a go, I worked two jobs when I first started and posted thousands of leaflets once you get over the initial hurdles if you work hard for the right price you will be fine. ;D
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On that budget you could start of with a trailer system. Do you have a car already that can pull? You just need a towbar. This will help save you money buying a van which you can do later once you are established.
Hi Paul,
Thank you, never considered a trailer system, I passed my driving test after 1998 so I believe I would have to do a trailer test but not sure I'll have to research that because it would be a good solution.
Many Thanks
Seamus
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Hi Seamus,
I moved from the UK to Southern Ireland 7 years ago for family reasons and started up again from scratch. Here's my experience:
I went out every day equipped for work and canvassed door to door. As soon as I found a customer I did the job there and then. I resumed canvassing until I got another and repeated the cycle. This meant that I was earning straight away and was in full view of neighbours or anyone else passing by so I was in effect self-advertising and earning at the same time.
I did this for a couple of years and by year 4, I considered myself established as I was by then getting a lot of word of mouth recommendations. I'm in my 8th year now and am flooded with work.
I work differently to most in the senses that 1) I am 100% traditional and 2) I work to whatever frequencies my customers want. Some are fortnightly, others monthly, 6, 8, or 12 weekly and others contact me as and when. It works for me. I have a few weekly shop fronts in my local town centre too.
There have been a few non-payers (most of the guys on here have if they're honest) and others may say 'not today' when you turn up for repeat cleans.
If you are positive, polite, persistent (but not pushy) and professional in your approach though, you will do ok but do expect it to take a few years to build a reasonable run, but don't get discouraged by any setbacks you get along the way.
Best wishes and look forward to hearing how you get on.
John
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Seamus,
I know someone working from a car using barrells and he got started for under £400. Invest in a decent pole like a Gardiner SLX 25 to start with, and get a medium supreme to go with it.
On many jobs, a trolley with a barrel on it is actually faster than a van mount...
You can start at any time of the year. The only time when we don't canvass is in December.
While you are learning, I would do the side of the house that has the sun shining on it first. Then you can go back when you've finished the house and the windows that have the sun shining on them should be kind of dry so you can check your work.
Get a basic, one page website set up, and have something on it so that the customers can sign up online to Go Cardless. Go Cardless will save you all the hassle of dealing with money and cheques and also checking your bank statements for bacs transfers. Go cardless will also save you all the hassle of debt chasing, collecting and you'll avoid non-payers.
Go Cardless is a good 'barrier to entry' onto your round. Make them sign up to Cardless before you clean their windows; and you will get committed customers who really want a window cleaner.
Be uniformed, get some magnetic signs for the car.
Don't do one-off's, hand them to another window cleaner.
Access is key. When you are canvassing, target houses with clear, open air access to the back via a garden gate.
Sign up to Cleaner Planner from the get-go; it will save you headaches from trying to manage a round manually.
Don't obsess over equipment. You need the basic kit, and you need to be using systems (eg. Go Cardless, and Cleaner Planner) that take some of the headache and stress out of running a business.
Be firm but fair with your customers.
Don't do inside work, hand them to another window cleaner.
Make canvassing easier by handing a flyer thru the door, and then door knocking a few days later, hold up the flyer (we clip it to a clipboard) and open with the line: "I put this through your door a few days ago, would you like a quote?"
Read these peoples back posts, they are close to 'legend' status in window cleaning ;-)
Ian Lancaster
Lee Pryor
Vin Kennedy / Perfect Windows
May the luck of the Irish be with you ;-)
OJ
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Also:
1. Watch Alex Gardiner's videos on how to WFP.
2. Pricing: You NEED to be billing AT LEAST £35-45 an hour. You can see mine, Vin Kennedy's and Lee Pryor's pricing menu's on our websites.
Pricing is one of the most important decisions you can make as a business owner. You may think the prices we are charging are high, but remember, you, yourself are directly in control of the quality of your work, so charge a decent price, for quality work, from a professional operator.
Following a pricing menu will take all the stress out of pricing, and also save you travelling to quote.
Finally, call some local window cleaners and ask if you can come out with them for the day so they can show you the ropes. I called about 25 local window cleaners when I started, and two of them gave me a chance.
This is a good warm up for canvassing.
Finally, remember that when babies are born they are born with two fears: loud noises and falling.
NO-ONE is born with a fear of cold calling ;-)
OJ