Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Fast 1 * on June 22, 2006, 06:52:15 pm
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reading some of these threads,and going by what is going on in the building industry,do you think ladders will not be permitted soon?I currently do it the traditional way,and am not particulary drawn to using wfp.Does anyone have information on this?to be honest,i would be gutted if this happened.
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All I will say on this matter is that I guess within time it will be inevitable that ladders will cease to be the norm and I expect insurance companies to take a hard line for such users.
The way this country has embraced Health and Safety has been to the extreme, not just with window cleaning but within all aspects.
I guess as with most things, certain methods that we use will be phased out and new ones will be adopted.
The biggest problem Traditional users will face is that the general opinion of this industry is that WFP is the way forward. So many manufacturers are investing millions into the research and development of this method that the government will have little or no option than to set this as the standard.
The serious injuries and deaths surrounding the use of ladders is high and that is something that is a fact.
The government spend huge sums of money caring for these people, emergency services, hospital, physio, benefits that they will have no option but to reconsider what is and what isn't legal and the best and safest method.
Well, thats my opinion anyway.
Best wishes,
Trev
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I think it will be a sad day if ladders are banned completely for wcing - I'm wfp but think ladders are reasonably safe, and also believe it should be down to individual choice whether to use ladders or not. Unfortunately that is only my view but regardless I'd never change back.
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If they do ban ladders there are going to be a lot of dirty windows about because you certainly cant clean them all with a pole.
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I think myself 75% of window cleaners in the next 10 years will be using a ladderless system, Might not be WFP maybe a pole with traditional tools who knows.
I also think the HSE are going to crack down a bit with ladder work which in one way is a good thing if it save live's or accidents.
Some jobs still need ladders so i am hoping that allowances in the future will be made for this.
I use WFP and traditional and i hope ladders never get banned as they are a tool in which we need but its going to get harder to justify working off of ladders.
Look at holland total ban on window cleaning with ladders.
I think we may be heading that way.
Paul
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If they do ban ladders there are going to be a lot of dirty windows about because you certainly cant clean them all with a pole.
Correct.
I've counted a few days worth of these on my round, and there's more windows I couldn't do with pole than I can't do with ladders.
I'd have to miss loads. :-\
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Ladder Ban? its not going to happen, why do HSE give press releases saying ladders are not banned...because at the very least, down the line they will be needed for access from & maybe not working from, they also know our industry is going thought changes and a lot of window cleaners are changing over to WFP not because of WAHR but because its benefits are business, anyway the picture should be clearer with the new guidelines on the use of ladders this summer, lets hope its black and white and stop the confession that is in are industry at the moment
Andy
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i didnt know that it is banned in holland.Mind you,it wouldnt be a bad job getting the windows in the red light district
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Today we got 3 new potential jobs all because the customers concerned thought wfp was rubbish. 2 we turned down because to do them trad style was to risky. For those 2 customers, I think that in time they will have to accept a less than perfect job.
I think that the wfp problem will not go away and what ever gets posted on this forum, I've yet to see a perfect finish with wfp. I've seen good and very good but not immaculate.
For business's, above the first floor, around here wfp is pretty much accepted as standard and added to which, commercial customers generally speaking are not so much worried about a perfect finish.
I cannot see ladders being banned though. Practically speaking, what about say a burglar alarm engineer who has to fix a problem. Is he going to have to have scaffold erected for 5 minuted work at 7 foot high? Or like as around here at the moment, they are repairing all the gutters and have put scaffolding up? What will each house need in the future, a lift? What about someone who fits aerials? Or DIY? Scaffolding to paint your own walls?
To ban ladders completely would be so impractical and would cost industry billions upon billions of ££££'s but what I do think is that regulations will get tighter and wfp will become more the norm.
A lot of hype comes from wfp makers. I've read so many times about ladders being illegal by well known companies ( and on this forum) untill the threatened water shortage may have put a stop to using wfp, and then oddly enough, their view on ladders suddenly changed because if those using wfp went bust........
Best to stick to what common sense says will be. The HSE aren't so daft as to make rules that are impractical.
As for deaths from working at height, the vast majority are in the construction industry and forrestry. The most dangerous job generally (apart from being a soldier) is as a fisherman - I mean the 'boat' variety and not the rod and tackle type, and that has not been banned.
Cheers
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to be honest,i havent seen anyone using wfp on domestic.I have seen quite a few vans with the reach and wash emblem on,and my mate has used it on commercial work in london.
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Funny you write that - thinking about it, I've yet to see wfp on anything domestic. I've seen blocks of flats, 3 or 4 stories high being done with wfp which is obviously a contract but not houses.
I've heard the complaints from domestic customers but I've never seen a house being done wfp. Having said that, we do a fair few but only when needed and never the ground floor or anything that can be safely done with tradtional methods as I'm fed up with complaints.
Interesting point you made there.
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it seems every one on this site uses wfp
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It does seem so doesn't it. It wasn't always like that.
We use both methods but for 95% of our commercial work, traditional is still by far the quickest and easiest and I'll bet anyone any amount money on that.
For most of our resindentual places, I still prefer traditional methods.
What's new and what requires some type of technicality always grabs the headlines. It's how it is now.
That and new regulations.
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I cannot see ladders being banned though. Practically speaking, what about say a burglar alarm engineer who has to fix a problem. Is he going to have to have scaffold erected for 5 minuted work at 7 foot high? Or like as around here at the moment, they are repairing all the gutters and have put scaffolding up? What will each house need in the future, a lift? What about someone who fits aerials? Or DIY? Scaffolding to paint your own walls?
To ban ladders completely would be so impractical and would cost industry billions upon billions of ££££'s but what I do think is that regulations will get tighter and wfp will become more the norm.
The point about this WAH directive is to use the safest method available.
The trades you are mentioning above have little if no alternative to using ladders. However, my freind works for Sky TV and his use of ladders is so restricted, i.e. ladder stay, rope to fixing point, height restriction that it takes him far longer to erect a dish than it used to.
I think in this industry, because we do have an alternative method, this is where the pressure will come from.
Our company insurance have already sent us a letter for us to detail our methods as they are reviewing our policy at the moment.
This debate will run until the government stamp and seal it. Then we will all know where we stand.
regards,
Trev
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I think for window cleaning ladders will become a no-no at some point in the future, or at least in situations where either WFP or cleaning with trad tools on a pole is a practical option.
Mostly, if you can get at it with a ladder, then you can get at it with a pole; end of story.
And it is that angle that insurance and H & S will eventually take.
DIY will remain the same, and people such as aerial fitters and so on will continue as before, its utterly impractical for them to work otherwise.
So there will always be times when the only practical option is to work off a ladder (whatever your trade)
But when you look at window cleaning, and you ask yourself if there is a practical alternative to doing those next set of windows with ladders, in almost all cases the answer is yes.
Flaky frames? Tough, the customer will have to put up with a lower standard of finish.
You will need a good reason NOT to use poles (and I don't just mean WFP either)
H & S is insidious, its all about reducing risk, and if the job can be done without recourse to climbing a ladder, then that, ultimately is where it is going to go.
And no, I don't think it is right, but that is the way it is going...
And I am continually baffled that Rosskesava cannot come across work that is at least the equal of anything done trad ???
I do a raft of work where the finish is second to none, truly, and all my domestic work is done WFP...every single one of them, and I can rarely find fault with the work, quite a few have the inside of the windows done too, so I get to check it up close and personal.
It's true that there are a few accounts that would be better done trad, and I don't mean those with powdery frames, but the finish is acceptable, and it is balanced by the fact that the frames are washed spotelssly clean...no more spiders or cobwebs or grubby corners on the frames, and on conservatories thats a big deal.
I think it is important to remember we are only talking about 1st floor and above, we are not talking about the loss of trad window cleaning, only the use of ladders in most circumstances.
Ian
so i agree with Trevor on this one
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Do you remember one of my threads (lost my first one to wfp) in that I stated it was the first work I had seen with wfp
I also stated thet it would take me double the time I take traditionally to produce results like the wfp produced. it was the first time these windows were done with wfp, and they were spottles,and I was up my ladder looking at them. so I know very good results can be obtained with wfp systems.
I still am a traditional wc. apart from the safty aspect, its faster, and faster means more money,mabe I am greedy but I'm looking after No 1,
I want to be around to see my grandkids grow up.
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I personally don't think that trad w/c will ever be a thing of the past and I hope not. I am not against wfp. I believe there is a place for both within our industry.I do however believe (and this is only my opinion) that someone in the government will be getting brown envelopes to help push through legislation to ban ladders. Who really benefits... The Manufacturers make a fortune because everybody has to have the equipment. Prices go through the roof because you have no choice.
However if HSE want to tighten ladder control I personally have no issues with that. I see a lot of idiots about and they need to be stopped. For example there are 2 guys around Southampton in a white escort. I passed them the other day and instead of proper feet on the bottom of their wooden ladders they had old bike tyre rubber. Yes it is their choice but I was annoyed because these guys are prob cheap and they have a fair amount of commercial work aas well as domestic so these people should be re educated. if poss.
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I think if HSE want to ban ladders, they shuld buy the systems for window cleaners who carnt afford one,thats the onlyway i will convert. ;D
BUMPER.
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It remains to be seen if ladders are to be banned, personally I can't see it. But as someone coming back into window cleaning it can seem rather depressing with all this wfp, perhaps they should rename this site WFP only. There is still so much work out there that doesn't require the necessity of wfp. I have just recently bought a round form a guy who started back with his father over 40 years ago, and 80% of the work is at ground level( shop fronts etc) along with the work being spread out. For approx 12-15 hours per week that nets me £15000. A lot of guys on the forum seem to be on a mission to make as much per hour as possible, this I think makes people like me and others anxious, as if the only alternative is to join the wfp revolution. I think for the foreseeable future there will be plenty of work for traditional , you just have to be more selective but like with all things, one has to keep abreast of change, I too am just in the process of acquiring a backpack to assist me on some jobs and to enable me to work within H&S legislation, not to build an empire
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We use wfp for both comm. & dom. work. Also as regards to the finish , it is beter than the trad. way , because you don't get any runs spot smears etc.
In the hot weather also with the trad way once the glass gets hot , sometimes when you soap up the window it dries before you get your blade out , you don't get that problem with wfp. :)
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It remains to be seen if ladders are to be banned, personally I can't see it. But as someone coming back into window cleaning it can seem rather depressing with all this wfp, perhaps they should rename this site WFP only. There is still so much work out there that doesn't require the necessity of wfp. I have just recently bought a round form a guy who started back with his father over 40 years ago, and 80% of the work is at ground level( shop fronts etc) along with the work being spread out. For approx 12-15 hours per week that nets me £15000. A lot of guys on the forum seem to be on a mission to make as much per hour as possible, this I think makes people like me and others anxious, as if the only alternative is to join the wfp revolution. I think for the foreseeable future there will be plenty of work for traditional , you just have to be more selective but like with all things, one has to keep abreast of change, I too am just in the process of acquiring a backpack to assist me on some jobs and to enable me to work within H&S legislation, not to build an empire
Hi Shaun,
Welcome back to window cleaning and to this forum.
I would like to make a few points regarding your posting.
1) There are many Traditional w/c's on here who contribute valuable and useful information. Yes, there are also many WFP cleaners too, but if you want advice about anything, trad/WFP then all you have to do is ask. This is not a biased forum in any way.
2) No one is saying you HAVE to use WFP for ALL your work, all that is being said is if your working up a ladder then WFP is an alternative and safer method.
3) WFP is the new "buzz" for want of a better description, but just like everything in this world, you either join in or stay away, either way its down to personal choice.
4) As for building your empire, again thats a choice only individuals can make and not just because you use WFP to clean with.
I hope this does not come across to strong and apologise if it does but just wanted to clear up a few things that just didn't sound right.
Best wishes,
Trev
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Hi Trevor
The point I was really trying to make, was that anybody possibly considering working in this industry might be put off, but don't be. Coming to a forum like this initially, and thinking that with all the legislation with ladders and so forth, that there was no place for traditional no more. And yes i'm speaking about myself, I forked out a couple of grand sevaral weeks ago, came to this forum and suddenly thought i'd made a big mistake. However I have had time to revaluate things, and with all the great advise from this forum, realised that there is plenty of work out there for traditional work, but nonetheless will have to introdce myself to wfp gradually as this is obviously the way forward
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I personally don't think that trad w/c will ever be a thing of the past and I hope not. I am not against wfp. I believe there is a place for both within our industry.I do however believe (and this is only my opinion) that someone in the government will be getting brown envelopes to help push through legislation to ban ladders. Who really benefits... The Manufacturers make a fortune because everybody has to have the equipment. Prices go through the roof because you have no choice.
However if HSE want to tighten ladder control I personally have no issues with that. I see a lot of idiots about and they need to be stopped. For example there are 2 guys around Southampton in a white escort. I passed them the other day and instead of proper feet on the bottom of their wooden ladders they had old bike tyre rubber. Yes it is their choice but I was annoyed because these guys are prob cheap and they have a fair amount of commercial work aas well as domestic so these people should be re educated. if poss.
Half a mile from where I live, a window cleaner came off his ladder recently. It was a wooden ladder and it snapped. I know the guy. He was in hospital for a while with brain hemorrage. He's out now but may not work again I've heard. I had my haircut in thwe shop next door a couple of days ago. The hairdresser told me about it as he was the one who called the ambulance. There was a lot of blood apparently and it could easily have been another death. When the hairdresser told me the ladder had snapped I wondered if he was exagerating at first. However, the ladder was still down the side of the premises so I checked it. It had snapped alright. It looked old so probably wasn't checked enough. The job he was doing off a ladder was fine for WFP. I didn't offer though. Just in case the guy recovers in a few weeks he will need some work to return to. Actually, I'd be happy to take some of his work to make sure someone else didn't - and then give it back to him when/if he was ready. But I don't know which ones he does or how to contact him.
Thew hairdresser still seemed a bit shocked when he told me what happened - and the accident was a week or two ago. So, even though we say it should be out choice, it does affect others too.
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I apologise if anybody took offence to my statement about empire building, but I think that with the advent of wfp, window cleaning can and perhaps will become a more lucrative profession, far removed from the more genteel days of traditional work, Tesco plc comes to mind. My daughters husband, best mate has a fairly big going concern, buying up local window cleaning rounds and selling franchises, he is positively ripping through windows, but I have seen some of his lads working and the work is not always to the highest order. I contacted a guy recently who was on this forum who wanted to start a round and lives local to me, and offer him any support I could give. However he got back to me and decided he didn't have the money to make the investment into wfp. Thats a shame because he still could of sourced work but obviously decided in part down to his take on the forum, that wfp was the only way in. Finally when I saw this post I responded immediately and possibly emotionally because it is something I strongly believe in, other local trad guys I've spoken too, are frankly poopting themselves believing there going to be out of work, with immediate effect.
shaun
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Whilst in no way would I want you to think that your response is not a genuine one to the guy you knew and fell, but nevertheless it sometimes comes across as a slightly spurious point as with all things in life there is risk, and that the falling of the ladder issue is used sometimes just simply to further wfp. Thousands upon thousands of people have plyed there trade over the decades fully aware of the dangers and risks. We are more and more living in a world where risk is being removed, and decisions taken for us. If the analogy of the risks using ladders were applied to all things ie cars, motorcyles, food etc,etc the world would be a very sterile place. For me its about making a responsible risk assessment with all things we do to minimise risk, but it should remain a personal decision. FREEDOM MAN ;D
shaun
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it seems every one on this site uses wfp
hi FAST ONE
we dont use wfp YET, but are thinking about, come october, we do only domestic at the mo, but with wfp, we can bramch out to commercial. 3 years ago i fell from my ladder and had multipule injuries, i was on my own at the time and slipped on decking my own stupid fault, was on the sick 3 months,,, but im back on them again, but im not on my own and im very safety concious,
best wishes
mandy
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There will ALWAYS be opportunities for Traditional window cleaning. Every window that can be reached from the ground CAN be cleaned traditional, its all down to choice.
Even if the WAH directive is forced and becomes the only way forward this still does not stop Traditional methods being used on the ground floor levels.
I have suffered 3 falls in my 15 years, yes I admit they were in my younger days when risk perhaps wasn't a word I thought about. However, now, it is my FIRST concern and something I will not ignore.
A vaild point by Shaun though, I can see that a newcomer would think he HAS to get WFP in order to continue. Maybe we should post an appropriate message?
Best wishes,
Trev
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well said.Speaking as someone who takes pride in their work,i prefer the more close up,hands on approach of traditional,the fact that you are close to the glass means a better job.To me,wfp seems more about making money,rather than doing a good job(that will get some backs up).I can fully understand the safety element of wfp,but it totally takes the pride element out of window cleaning.I would find it hard walking away from a job,thinking they might not done to a high standard.If wfp completely took over,i would strongly consider going back to the building game.No offence
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Is that day or half day to work with you still on offer Trevor, te see or get some wfp experience. I'm such a hipocrite eh! :P
Shaun
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Whilst in no way would I want you to think that your response is not a genuine one to the guy you knew and fell, but nevertheless it sometimes comes across as a slightly spurious point as with all things in life there is risk, and that the falling of the ladder issue is used sometimes just simply to further wfp. Thousands upon thousands of people have plyed there trade over the decades fully aware of the dangers and risks. We are more and more living in a world where risk is being removed, and decisions taken for us. If the analogy of the risks using ladders were applied to all things ie cars, motorcyles, food etc,etc the world would be a very sterile place. For me its about making a responsible risk assessment with all things we do to minimise risk, but it should remain a personal decision. FREEDOM MAN ;D
shaun
Sure thing Shaun.
3,000 people die on the UK roads every year and no-one stops us driving. I'm not anti trad. I cleaned that way until October last year for 15 years - and had a couple of very near misses in that time. Either of them could have killed me but I got away with it totally unscathed. I still do a couple of jobs the trad way (oxidised frames) but I am thinking of passing those jobs on.
When Ihave read about ladder users dieing and getting injured it has saddened me greatly as it's just not necessary. This time, it's a guy I have known for many years - not closely though. He did (does?) a lot of cleaning in the local town centre and we often stopped for a chat if I was in town early. Most of his work is ground floor shop windows so I guess that's why he never made the investment into WFP.
I hope he recovers ok.
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Misconception about doing a bad or not good job with a WFP
We have been using a WFP on commercial for over 4 years – the past 4 months we have been taking on houses (canvassing) and all the first cleans which can be a nightmare – WELL had not one moan and we have even had phone calls saying thank you for doing a very good job – we are very pleased with you services – the windows have a extra shine and the frames are all most as new as they was first put in :)
Andy
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Is that day or half day to work with you still on offer Trevor, te see or get some wfp experience. I'm such a hipocrite eh! :P
Shaun
Yes Shaun, just call me next week and we can arrange a day for you. Do you want commercial or domestic day out?
Let me know,
Trev
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Hi Trevor, choices, choices. I'm going to be buying a backpack initially so domestic would seem better, however one of the jobs I have is 2nd storey flats, which will require a 30 ft pole. what do you suggest? Maybe if you forward me your tel no. I could ring you.
Cheers
Shaun
Ps do you have or ever use a backpack?
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Apart from the fact it would wind-up Squeaky ;D , I hope a total ladder ban is never enforced.
I like having the choice of WFP or ladders. I can think of many our accounts I find easier to use ladders with.
Call me irresponsible, but if a ban on ladders was enforced; I'd probably disregard it, unless the property owner stopped me.
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Saying all that, at present, according to the current regulations, ladders are a LAST resort when all other possibilities are impractical.
Then the ladders have to be held steady with a ladder stabilisation device AND tied off too!
The WAH guidance says that the the guiding principle behind the regulations is to avoid working at height where-ever possible.
So according to the regs, ladders are basically already banned!
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THERE ISNT ONE !
Wait for Squeaky ;D
Rich P @ F
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Ladders will definately be phased out over the next few years for window cleaning.
On the rumour mill, i have heard that within 18 months the hse will set a time table for all window cleaners to comply fully with the wahd and to use wfp instead of ladders.
Just remember the phrases" reasonably practicable" and "all other methods have been considered"
These are the very words from Ian Greenwoods mouth.
Here is a question
What is your interpretation of the words "reasonably practicable" in the Ian greenwood statement on Newsnight ?
Dave
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David
What do you think would happen to window cleaners who can't afford a WFP as i expect there are some window cleaners scraping by on what they earn.
If they can't afford a WFP system would that mean they would have to pack up.
I would also be good when they make the regualtions clearer.
Paul
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On the rumour mill, i have heard that within 18 months the hse will set a time table for all window cleaners to comply fully with the wahd and to use wfp instead of ladders.
In that case it's up to them to supply a replacement.
They can't just stop someones business of years and years.
They'll find 100,000+ people fighting it.
They can't win that one, and I for one won't let them.
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can't [/i]win that one, and I for one won't let them.
I'm not so sure your right squeaks, A customer of mine has had to give up his business after 20 years because of these regulations. ok may be a different trade but it was banned.
Just to let you know what it was, I'll tell you.
His business was at a Riding school for disabled children, and his staff used to have to hold the children on there horses,
he said to me you could not measure there smiles with a tape measure, and because his staff had to hold the children on the horses this was now banned, because they were not allowed to touch the children.
20 years in the business down the pan because of regulations.
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Hi Trevor, choices, choices. I'm going to be buying a backpack initially so domestic would seem better, however one of the jobs I have is 2nd storey flats, which will require a 30 ft pole. what do you suggest? Maybe if you forward me your tel no. I could ring you.
Cheers
Shaun
Ps do you have or ever use a backpack?
Hi Shaun,
Details on my website www.firstcleanservices.co.uk
Give me a call on Tuesday and we will sort stuff out for ya. Probably domestic would be better if thats how your going forward.
As for a backpack, no, we dont use them. Is an option for later on down the road maybe but we don't have terraced houses on our books so always use side access.
Best wishes,
Trev
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David
If ladders are to be fased out then i think it adds weight to my point that someone somewhere is taking brown envelopes from the manufacturers of wfp. Now I have no evidence of this and I am not against wfp. You see people that choose to work at height (and there are many more trades than just window cleaners) know the risks before they do it. So yes it is sad when someone gets hurt. My thought is that people should be educated on using a ladder safely and to not be stupid with them. To check the condition of the ladder etc, etc. I personally take every precaution. I use my ladder stopper more often than not. Cones are put out.
Trouble is there are too many people out there (and I dont mean on the forums) that don't care and have the attitude that it wqill never happen to them. They are the people that are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Just yesterday I went into my local bank and saw two operatives from mitie in their doing the insides. Now this is an old bank with lots of high windows internally and externally. They used no warning signs at all. no safety implements. One of them went up the ladder and when he finished with applicator dropped it to the ground without looking. All I could think of was they were a joke. Trouble is nobody seemed to care. That is wrong.
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In scotland you need a license and you need to show your insurance and get vetted before you can clean windows .maybe the H & S would fine the council if they did not vet you for having a safe method.Maybe the license could come to England,Did stop smoking in pubs in scotland and Ireland overnight.Never say never
jinky
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I personally think having a Licence to clean windows is a great idea and something that should be put in place ASAP..
This would achieve two things.
1) Customer peace of mind that you are registered and legal.
2) Gets rid of the fly by night dole dodgers that ruin this industry!
The sooner the better please.
It could even work that if you are registered you would obtain discounts for insurance, products etc....
I think I am one of the few companies who are registered with the local police. I don't know how many others are but it helps when we are obtaining new business and customers love it.
Trev
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Hi trevor
Didn't know you could register with local police station, good idea. How do go about, just go down to local station?
Shaun
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Thats all I did, we kept getting stopped by the police and in the end I went to the station, filled in a for (G3Jan31) and now they hold our records.
This way anyone contacts them they have or vehicle details and identification on the people who should be in the van!
Best wishes,
Trev
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I personally think having a Licence to clean windows is a great idea and something that should be put in place ASAP..
This would achieve two things.
1) Customer peace of mind that you are registered and legal.
2) Gets rid of the fly by night dole dodgers that ruin this industry!
The sooner the better please.
It could even work that if you are registered you would obtain discounts for insurance, products etc....
I think I am one of the few companies who are registered with the local police. I don't know how many others are but it helps when we are obtaining new business and customers love it.
Trev
One of the things that attracted me to window cleaning in the first place was the relative freedom and that it was far less regulated than other businesses (plus I couldn't get a job). I dislike excessive regulation as it seems to give birth to yet more council prodnoses who want to know things that are none of their business. However, having said that, I do see the way society is going and acknowledge that some form of licensing system is inevitable. Scotland and Wales usually have things tried out on them before transferring these things to England.
If/when such a licensing system comes into being, I believe that there are two things that must happen
1) The license should cover a very wide geographical area. My business covers three counties as I live near borders. I feel that it would be very wrong to have to purchase three licenses. Even worse, if it were to be done by towns, I would probably need eight licenses as some of my business is scattered around.
2) The price of the license should only cover the costs of producing it. I would even go as far to say that I do not feel that we should have to pay for enforcement costs. There are plenty of precedents for this. It must not be used as yet another indirect tax.
Sometimes I go through life feeling that there is some prodnosed twit hiding around a corner waiting for a technical offence to be committed. Although I can normally laugh off the mild paranoia, at times of stress this feeling can be amplified. Maybe it's just me and I should see a psychiatrist (who is probably also paranoic because he/she also has to be checked out by the authorities periodically) ;D
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I dont think there ever ban ladder work, which lets face it, is the best way to clean windows. ive used these wfp systems and theres no way they clean the windows like hands on. The way forward is too stop these cow boy window cleaners who get up ladders at stupid heights with no one footing them !. Too stop accidents and so on, all it takes is someone too foot your ladders, but most of the window cleaners ive talked too, our more concerned about speed, and not the safety part. :o One more thing. Dont it get your back up when you see a window cleaner using a builders bucket for window cleaning, how professional does that look :P, too window cleaners who use builders buckets, go and buy a window cleaners bucket, you look stupid...!! lol :P
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ive used a builders bucket fo 10 years it only cost £2
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can't [/i]win that one, and I for one won't let them.
I'm not so sure your right squeaks, A customer of mine has had to give up his business after 20 years because of these regulations. ok may be a different trade but it was banned.
Just to let you know what it was, I'll tell you.
His business was at a Riding school for disabled children, and his staff used to have to hold the children on there horses,
he said to me you could not measure there smiles with a tape measure, and because his staff had to hold the children on the horses this was now banned, because they were not allowed to touch the children.
20 years in the business down the pan because of regulations.
That is so sad..... but that is anti-child abuse gone mad not Health and Safety gone mad..... :(
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We do the windows of a rich lady who runs a stable for disabled kids.
She was horrified that last year when she found out that no one was allowed to help/lift a disabled kid into the sadle. Her thing was was that kids who spend their lives in a wheelchair get real excercise from horse riding but new legislation makes that impossible.
Fortunately she has the money to come up with other ways that involve ropes and harnesses.
Society has in some ways gone mad. Those that intend good have got swallowed up for the very very small minority who intend otherwise.
With window cleaning, I feel it will all go the same way. Instead of sorting out the problem of those who use ladders in a stupid way, they will d**n the good with the bad even though the bad are a vast minority. Just like when we were at school, the thick teacher punished the majority who had done nothing along with the odd one who was guilty.
Cheers
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We do the windows of a rich lady who runs a stable for disabled kids.
She was horrified that last year when she found out that no one was allowed to help/lift a disabled kid into the sadle. Her thing was was that kids who spend their lives in a wheelchair get real excercise from horse riding but new legislation makes that impossible.
Fortunately she has the money to come up with other ways that involve ropes and harnesses.
Society has in some ways gone mad. Those that intend good have got swallowed up for the very very small minority who intend otherwise.
With window cleaning, I feel it will all go the same way. Instead of sorting out the problem of those who use ladders in a stupid way, they will d**n the good with the bad even though the bad are a vast minority. Just like when we were at school, the thick teacher punished the majority who had done nothing along with the odd one who was guilty.
Cheers
It's the way society is going Ross. Rather than educating, they prefer to "dumb down" - especially whjere something is hard to police. It's the same in other areas too. Speed limits are a classic example. A good (or even average) driver will know a safe speed for the conditions without being ordered by a sign or a camera. However, the assumption is that we are all idiots and need to be treated as such by over regulation. Then they complain when we don't think for ourselves. Methinks they want it both ways.