Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nathankaye on January 17, 2018, 01:10:48 pm
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Haha ive never had more problems since faffing with MPPT controllers.
By all accounts I have a legit MPPT controller and as can see on vid below, its pulling the volts down from over 30 to 14 more suitable for the battery its feeding. The panels are connected in series and then meter and then into the MPPT. I have mostly been parking in direct sun light but I am bitterly disappointed with the conversion of the overvoltage to amps. Especially when my small panel charging direct to my electric reel battery is pulling more amps.
In short: MPPT has given 0.1@@ amps from 2 panels in series pulling over 30v in.
Small 12w panel feeding direct to battery has given 0.389 amps in the same time.
What going wrong?
https://youtu.be/oohP259Ov2Q
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Disconnect the second panel in series that isnt facing the sun. So what you need to do is only compare the 2 panels that are facing the sun. See if that changes the figures.
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Disconnect the second panel in series that isnt facing the sun. So what you need to do is only compare the 2 panels that are facing the sun. See if that changes the figures.
I still run a on/off switch on the panels before going into the meter. When I first turn the panels on, I have a collective volt of 35 coming into the MPPT. But when I turn the MPPT controller on, it brings the voltage down to just under 14v, which I thought was normal. So the over voltage should be turned into amps and thats what I dont seem to be getting.
Previously I had a meter on each panel and so I knew the outout from each panel but the problem with that, was that the meters had diodes in for one way flow of current. So I have now connected the panels before they enter the meter.
But Im now thinking the chinese meter is at fault and so I am bypassing the meter and running panels in series straight into the controller. The only meter will be after the MPPT to show me the output and I will see how that works tomorrow
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You and me both mate , avin a mare myself !!
But back to yours though , just watched the vid , the first meter you grab i think is connected to the 50 and 20 in series yes ?
And the readings you are getting off it are before MPPT yes ?
Well as Spruce said , they need to be facing the same way for best effect , also , it was sunny at the time , this is when you would be best to have them in parralell , if you cant see the sun then more is gotten from series .
Also i believe that you are reading the meters wrong , the little panel 12w that you said was giving 0.384, that was the reading from bottom left , (the one that scrolls through readings) that 0.384 is what you have pulled in in total since switch on , the reading above it is the one that shows amps in at the time .
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You and me both mate , avin a mare myself !!
But back to yours though , just watched the vid , the first meter you grab i think is connected to the 50 and 20 in series yes ?
And the readings you are getting off it are before MPPT yes ?
Well as Spruce said , they need to be facing the same way for best effect , also , it was sunny at the time , this is when you would be best to have them in parralell , if you cant see the sun then more is gotten from series .
Also i believe that you are reading the meters wrong , the little panel 12w that you said was giving 0.384, that was the reading from bottom left , (the one that scrolls through readings) that 0.384 is what you have pulled in in total since switch on , the reading above it is the one that shows amps in at the time .
Yes, so I have the two panels connected in series, virtually straight away from the panels. ( ive got the panels set that way, so which ever way im parked I have at least one in full sun and the other still drawing power but just not in direct light. For instance the other day I was drawing 25v in one and 11v from the other. Yet if both panels were not in direct sun it would have been much less. Ild sooner sacrifice a little voltage rather than have days where i get none. If that makes sense)
Then from the connection of series, straight into the meter reader and then into the MPPT.
The small panel that i took the 0.389 from was the source AH showing the collective amps drawn in since it was turned on. (is how I understand it) and compared this to the total amp hours from after the MPPT controller. So comparing the total amp hours delivered into each battery.
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I also think that you need to compare apples with apples.
If I understand this right you are comparing the performance of 2 different panels charging 2 different batteries. The only common thing is the gauge.
If you need to evaluate the performance of the MPPT controller then you need the same power source charging the same battery. So using the sun you would need a cloudless sky with the sun shining, or consistant cloud.
Different batteries are going to give different charge values, especially if each are in different states of charge - a nearly fully charged battery will accept a lower charge than a half charged one will.
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Yes , as above , i think you are over complicating things Nath , my system is about as easy as it gets , to be honest mine is not quite right as i have 2 different wattage panels myself , really to run series the panels should be the closest match you can get , and then only feed into one battery or a bank of identical ones .
If i were you i would take the 2 big panels and wire either parralell or series depending on weather as i have mentioned before .
Wire them to one meter and then to MPPT then to one battery .
Then wire your 12 watt to the other battery for your reel and keep an eye on the voltage as you used to .
That way freeing you up to do the job you are meant to be out there doing ;D ;D ;D
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Sorry chaps, not sure if youve misunderstood me.
The first amp meter is connected to the wiring of the solar panels after they are connected in series. So this meter will tell me the amp and watt draw from the panels.
My understanding is that the MPPT will convert the over voltage to amps. So I should be looking at a higher ampage coming from my MPPT control box than the amp reading going in. This is the problem, I am not doing so. But as a point of reference a smaller panel has given me a greater feed of amps in comparison and yes a lower voltage draw as well since its a smaller watt panel. I made this comparison just to highlight that I think I have a problem somewhere with my set up or the MPPT controller. Because logic would say that a greater feed of voltage from 2 larger panels in series plus the magic of the MPPT controller should see a bigger yield in amp's being given when both have ran for the same time.
Yet in my case, i wasnt getting that result.
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I do see what you are saying , i have had it myself at times , the amount of times i have found myself switching wiring configurations to get the most is stupid , thats why i just opted to go series in overcast and parralell in sun .
I would get 25% more on the cloudy days due to series one minute but then not the next , then other times when switching i got exactly the same , i sort of gave up switching and going with what i said above .
Just lately with the meters playing up i have stuck with series , i should have the bluetooth wired in and running by the end of play tomorrow , and that will document via app exactly what has come in when and how it was wired , i can then see for sure what is best how and when !
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Yep, it can be frustrating.
You'll have to post your findings with the app. I have contemplated setting this up myself but with cable to laptop in an evening when filling my tank up. But I have decided against it for now.
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What make of solar panels have you got. I use sun power solar panels so if solar panel is partially covered by cloud the drop is less than most other manufacturers. I run a dual battery charger solar 20amp MPPT by vitronic powered by two 150 watt panels.
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What make of solar panels have you got. I use sun power solar panels so if solar panel is partially covered by cloud the drop is less than most other manufacturers. I run a dual battery charger solar 20amp MPPT by vitronic powered by two 150 watt panels.
If one of you panels was facing the other way and not catching the sun's rays its the same as the panel being in shade.
If they put solar panels on a house roof with one array facing south and the other west for example, they use 2 separate inverters or a multi inverter which treats each bank individually. (Roof solar use invertors to boost the voltage to 230v where we use controllers to reduce and control the input to suit our 12v batteries.)
I wouldn't be surprised if the one of Nats panels is feeding the other. What P&F has is 2 different size panels but they are both orientated the same, flat. So they both get the same available sunlight.
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Ive attached a on/off switch to both panels and previously an amp meter for both. Also both panels are angled in. So if one is in full sun it brought in the highest yield of amps/volts. However when I turned that one off and the other on, it was still yielding results because it was still in high sun just not directly facing it. But obviously not as much as the other.
P @ F i believe has his panels flat on his roof bars, whereas mine are angled from roof bar down to the roof. However his panels are higher rated wattages.
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Slightly different today as im in parallel but I seem to be getting roughly what im expecting. So my conclusion is that my amp meter from china was at fault for some reason. Dont know how, but since ive bypassed it, things seem to be working as it should
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Yes thats more like it Nath , those amp meters are good as an indication , but as you say , they are no cutting edge monitors , close enough for what we need though , as long as they work right !
I have disconected 2 of mine now , before and after the mppt , i dont need them anymore , that bluetooth dongle is the mutts nuts !
I do still have one on the pump and drill though to see what gone out .
But to be honest i dont think im going to need that either , i have gotten home for the past 3 days now with my battery in float mode , may it continue like that ;D ;D ;D
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Yes thats more like it Nath , those amp meters are good as an indication , but as you say , they are no cutting edge monitors , close enough for what we need though , as long as they work right !
I have disconected 2 of mine now , before and after the mppt , i dont need them anymore , that bluetooth dongle is the mutts nuts !
I do still have one on the pump and drill though to see what gone out .
But to be honest i dont think im going to need that either , i have gotten home for the past 3 days now with my battery in float mode , may it continue like that ;D ;D ;D
Yep, your new set up looks good. Are you still using combo of solar panels and alternator or have you come away from solar panels altogether now and made use of them at home?
My solar panels are partof my reputation now lol! Im known as the window cleaner with the reach n wash who uses solar panels.
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All i have done is stuck my multifunction Numax leisure in as my van battery , this then gets charged as a normal battery would via the alternator , but i still have all the solar going as that then charges me whilst the van is not running , as i say , i have not had the battery out for 3 days now , by the time i get home im fully charged , and as you know , the solar yield has been utter rubbish lately.
You may remember Spruce saying that i would find summer easy , but in winter it would be hard to achieve my goal of not taking my battery out , well it would appear that i have cracked it my old son !
All i have to hope now is that the battery can handle the charge i am providing it , i dont think that multiple starts are going to be an issue , i did a test run of 15 starts the other day without actually driving the van or letting it idle during the 2 hour period i did it over , i then went for a 10 mile drive and was right back to being fully charged again .
All i need to work out now is how to upload a pic or vid to ciu or my laptop from my new piece of turd iphone , dont suppose you know do you ?
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All i have done is stuck my multifunction Numax leisure in as my van battery , this then gets charged as a normal battery would via the alternator , but i still have all the solar going as that then charges me whilst the van is not running , as i say , i have not had the battery out for 3 days now , by the time i get home im fully charged , and as you know , the solar yield has been utter rubbish lately.
You may remember Spruce saying that i would find summer easy , but in winter it would be hard to achieve my goal of not taking my battery out , well it would appear that i have cracked it my old son !
All i have to hope now is that the battery can handle the charge i am providing it , i dont think that multiple starts are going to be an issue , i did a test run of 15 starts the other day without actually driving the van or letting it idle during the 2 hour period i did it over , i then went for a 10 mile drive and was right back to being fully charged again .
All i need to work out now is how to upload a pic or vid to ciu or my laptop from my new piece of turd iphone , dont suppose you know do you ?
What milleage is recommended for split relays to be of benefit do you know?
But sounds like you have cracked it by combining the two together; alternator n solar.
Wouldnt it be easier to upload onto u tube and then just post a link as youve done b4. Or use a data/charge cable from phone to laptop? Other than that, im clueless as i use android phones at mo.
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I think Spruce said that half an hour of him driving would get him about 3.5 amps , dont take that as gospel though , i am only doing 10 mile on way home and it seems to be topping me right up ?
As for the phone bit i give up , i have always used android myself , only nasty ones as i always went for the free tv or console , this time i thought i would get an iphone to make life easier for myself , how wrong was i eh ::)roll
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I think Spruce said that half an hour of him driving would get him about 3.5 amps , dont take that as gospel though , i am only doing 10 mile on way home and it seems to be topping me right up ?
As for the phone bit i give up , i have always used android myself , only nasty ones as i always went for the free tv or console , this time i thought i would get an iphone to make life easier for myself , how wrong was i eh ::)roll
I honestly don't understand why some people can run their equipment off the van's battery and we haven't been able to.
When my son joined us he had a 2liter hdi Peugeot Partner Van. We ran his pump (just 1 Shurflo pump with Varistream analogue controller) for 4 days from his van battery. On the pm of the 4th day he had to bump start his van as the battery was flat.
Yet a cleaner (who ocassionally visits this forum these days) had the identical van (Citroen Berlingo) and he had no issues running his pump off his van's battery.
Son's battery needed to be replaced a couple of years later and we tried the same exercise, and again the van's battery was flat in 4 days.
When son in law joined us he brought in a 1.8 ttdi Tansit Connect. We also tried to run 1 pump and 1 controller from his van battery. Even travelling a 9 mile journey to work and back didn't keep his battery from also going flat, although it took a little longer. We ended up adding a leisure battery to his van.
Our problem charging wise is that we do minmal mileage and we really get into a traffic jam. 90% of our work is within a 5 mile radius. My van is for work only as I have a private car as does the wife. We have one special customer that is 25 miles away (family related) and that trip isn't enough to replenish the battery charge in our leisure battery.
I have related on here before how I drove from the North East to the south coast to collect a diesel heater I bought. My leisure battery voltage was registering 12.4/12.5volts when I started off. It took 5 hours of driving before that leisure battery was fully charged, only accepting 0.3 to 0.5 of an amp on my combo amp/voltage gauge.
So the only advise I can give is down to my own running experience. If your daily commute includes getting stuck in traffic then thats good for your leisure battery as it is still getting a charge. In our area the only times we might get delayed is at a level crossing. ;D
I've been really interested in P&F's thread. Now my leisure battery is over 3 years old I can expect it to need replacing in the near future. With some leisure batteries also now having dual facilities, I could well replace my van's starter battery (which is relatively new) with a leisure battery with a CCA value and consign the starter battery to the back and use it to jump start the van should the battery go flat.
I don't want to get too involved as the van I have is in need of some major rust surgery or needing to be replaced. I'm in limbo atm.
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All i have done is stuck my multifunction Numax leisure in as my van battery , this then gets charged as a normal battery would via the alternator , but i still have all the solar going as that then charges me whilst the van is not running , as i say , i have not had the battery out for 3 days now , by the time i get home im fully charged , and as you know , the solar yield has been utter rubbish lately.
You may remember Spruce saying that i would find summer easy , but in winter it would be hard to achieve my goal of not taking my battery out , well it would appear that i have cracked it my old son !
All i have to hope now is that the battery can handle the charge i am providing it , i dont think that multiple starts are going to be an issue , i did a test run of 15 starts the other day without actually driving the van or letting it idle during the 2 hour period i did it over , i then went for a 10 mile drive and was right back to being fully charged again .
All i need to work out now is how to upload a pic or vid to ciu or my laptop from my new piece of turd iphone , dont suppose you know do you ?
What milleage is recommended for split relays to be of benefit do you know?
But sounds like you have cracked it by combining the two together; alternator n solar.
Wouldnt it be easier to upload onto u tube and then just post a link as youve done b4. Or use a data/charge cable from phone to laptop? Other than that, im clueless as i use android phones at mo.
The article I read once suggested that it would take a 750km trip to fully recharge a leisure battery in an Australian RV.
If I consider that as gospel (which seems to back up my 5 hour journey with an 80% charged leisure battery) a split charge relay is more of backup and I don't think can be relied on totally. Solar is an excellent addition but winter is always going to be problematic - based on canal boaters and caravaner experiences. Even SV Delos (see YouTube) have to be careful of their power consumption and they have solar, 2 wind generators, 2 alternators on their diesel engine and sometimes revert to their diesel driven generator especially when they use their water maker. Cooking is with gas. They are in the tropics atm so plenty of sunshine.
I had considered removing my split charge relay and replacing it with a B2B charger. But I can't see how I would benefit. My Numax charger can sometimes be on for 2 hours when I get home before the charger goes into float mode.
Numax advised me that they don't recommend you charge a leisure battery faster than 10% of its capacity. If I use 15 amps a day and it takes me 15 minutes to drive home, I would need an input of 60 amph to replace that days usage, or 30 amph if I was to consider that next day's out journey. That's not possible.
The other thing I keep thinking about is the instruction Webasto give with their diesel engine preheaters. On starting these heaters draw about 20 amps for around 3 minutes and once fired up power usage settles in as around 4 amps - similar to a Shurfo pump.
The programmer default is 30 minutes run time. If you have the internal circulatory fan on to defrost the windscreen, then Webasto advise that you need a minimum of a 30 minute journey to recharge the battery - the same time as the heater has been run for. (40 minutes = 40 minute journey time, etc.) So indirectly they are also telling us that a starter battery also takes time to recharge - it isn't instantaneous and doesn't appear to be any faster than our leisure battery takes to charge up.
Lithium ion is a different story, but just far too expensive for us.
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My last bit of faffing now withthe panels.
Ive connected them individually to the MPPT controller. So kinda like parrallel but due to the different wattages of the panels and positions I want to rule out one panel sharing the charge with the other. Therefore I have now fitted in line blocking diodes.
So each panel feeds into a meter so I can see how each is performing. From the meter I now have an inline blocking diode and then it feeds into the MPPT controller. Ive just spent a moment watching the results to see how its doing and all is well. Watching the Amps shoot up is a good feeling.
Also fitting one to the panel charging my smaller battery. I believe it came with diodes inset but now I can be sure.
All is good. Not going to worry anymore and now time to crack on
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Sorry chaps but i cant seem to flatten my battery no matter how i try ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Went out with a full battery this morning at 10 and was at home at 4.30 with a full battery , i did about 25 miles tops , my solar yield was 40 Wh , my max watt pull was 27 , max voltage was 40.7 from panels.
Max battery voltage was 14.59 v , min was 12.05 v .
I was in .....Bulk for 5hr 12m (90%).....Absorb for 6m (2%).....Float for 29m (8%) .
Over the day i had used 12 amps through pump (drill not metered yet) not vast though as i only wound in 70m about 7 times .
12 amps would be about 3.5hrs of solid pumping non stop .
Just wish i could upload the screenshots from the dongle app !
The Numax is sat in the van at 12.99v as i type this , and it hasnt seen a charger for 4 days now !
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And i have just done a bit of maths and that cant be right ..........3.5 hours of solid pumping at 1,7 Lpm is 210m x 1.7 Lpm = 357 L.
My tank is only 250 L which i pretty much emptied .
So either the chinese meter is wrong or pump over run while the system is reaching DE has not been taken into consideration , but thinking about it , it wouldnt be would it , the pump is running / drawing a load even when water is not being delivered .
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And i have just done a bit of maths and that cant be right ..........3.5 hours of solid pumping at 1,7 Lpm is 210m x 1.7 Lpm = 357 L.
My tank is only 250 L which i pretty much emptied .
So either the chinese meter is wrong or pump over run while the system is reaching DE has not been taken into consideration , but thinking about it , it wouldnt be would it , the pump is running / drawing a load even when water is not being delivered .
We estimate 50% pump running time for really compact work.
At 1.7lpm flow, using a tank full would equate to 2.5hours = +- 40% of your working day. Bearing in mind that the 6.5 total hours includes driving time. (25 miles in your neck of the woods could be anywhere between 30 minutes and an hour.)
Anyway, it doesn't matter. It looks very much like with your work pattern and round route means that you can be pretty much self sufficient energy wise even in winter. But it still early days. In the words of my Indian surgeon to me; "don't get too smart, you're not out of the woods yet." Whilst I had a good laugh at his words, it had a profound effect on my memory as he was and still is to this day, right. As with most things, we need to just keep an eye on the ball so we don't get caught unawares.
Hi five for your achievements, as our grandkids say.
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Nathan,
If you haven't seen this it might help you with your controller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YowgBCl1F1I
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That is very interesting Spruce , not doing mppt until it hits upward of 10 w , i wonder if mine performs the same ?
If it does then winter days are really only pwm powered as with me having flat panels 10 watt is hard to achieve .
Yesterday i was pretty much hovering around 10 all day , but it did peak at 27 , how long that went on for i dont know as i would have to watch it all day or buy more add ons for the system , which i dont feel would do any favours , the watts are the watts and not a lot will change that .
But it does show that although i have the ability to harness 120 w i can only hope for as low as 10% of that in poor weather .
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That is very interesting Spruce , not doing mppt until it hits upward of 10 w , i wonder if mine performs the same ?
If it does then winter days are really only pwm powered as with me having flat panels 10 watt is hard to achieve .
Yesterday i was pretty much hovering around 10 all day , but it did peak at 27 , how long that went on for i dont know as i would have to watch it all day or buy more add ons for the system , which i dont feel would do any favours , the watts are the watts and not a lot will change that .
But it does show that although i have the ability to harness 120 w i can only hope for as low as 10% of that in poor weather .
I wondered that as well, but I can't see anyone having done a review on a Victron like this.
But I thought that the same must apply as it wouldn't make sense using the available low sunlight harvest to do the conversion.
I did read somewhere that Victron were going to release a software update to allow more info like the EPEVER solar controller does. That was a year ago. Maybe you could contact them and ask as you are part way there with the dongle.
But then, does it matter? The system as you have it is working for you atm. Next would be to plug you van into the grid as sell the excess power back to your electricity supplier - become a minature solar farm. ;D
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Im pretty sure that the update you mention has just happened , the guy in the shop said that when i set the dongle up it would update automatically straight away as version 29.1 had just come out , i was on 16.1 when i got the controller so its moving along .
Im sure that the wifi the tracer had is also already available to buy , dont see the need to explore that deep yet though .
I have managed to convert my info screens i can get from my bluetooth option now , have a gander , it tells me the basics .
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Im pretty sure that the update you mention has just happened , the guy in the shop said that when i set the dongle up it would update automatically straight away as version 29.1 had just come out , i was on 16.1 when i got the controller so its moving along .
Im sure that the wifi the tracer had is also already available to buy , dont see the need to explore that deep yet though .
I have managed to convert my info screens i can get from my bluetooth option now , have a gander , it tells me the basics .
This is just fascinating. What 'blows my mind' is how you experimented and by trial and error found out about when to connect your panels in series and in parallel for the best results in power harvesting. So by doing that you have just confirmed what this YouTuber found out about how his Tracer controller worked using graphs.
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Next question.
If you put a load on the MPPT controller, will the current also show up on the 'report' you have there. So in other words, will your controller also monitor your pump current draw if you had the pump wired up to your load connections rather than directly to the battery?
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Yes , its mad isnt it , that Adam Welch knows his stuff , he was the guy i mostly watched when considering trying the solar approach to charging .
Im going to have a look at my info in a mo , to see how the battery state is , i think it was sat at 12.99v at 5.30 yesterday , the van hasnt moved today and the weather is totally pants so this should be interesting , i think since switch on this morning , whenever it decided that was , it should have been sat in float for a while by now .
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Next question.
If you put a load on the MPPT controller, will the current also show up on the 'report' you have there. So in other words, will your controller also monitor your pump current draw if you had the pump wired up to your load connections rather than directly to the battery?
Superb question that , matey in the shop told me to stay wired as i was and not use load , and i was to turn load off in the battery settings menu , however it has to be worth a look at , i may do it with the pump but i have seen the drill pull over 10 amp when it was struggling a bit , that could cause damage as the controller is only rated for 10 amp .
I do have a 12v strip light in the shed , in a bit i will put that on an see if it puts it on the info data screen .
First i will check on the battery state as i said .
Keep checking in though as you know i wont be able to resist a little experiment ;D
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Cheers Spruce, I havent seen that vid. I supposeim gonna subcribe to his channel as I saw his first review ofthe MPPT and thats why I bought one.
Its an interesting vid, but now it means what was going to be a quick fix to charge my batteries is turning more into a hobby haha.
But with my panels angled and with each one connected to a meter, I know thatthe panel that isnt in direct sun light has been picking up 11watts. Todays its only 8watts but my other 50w panel is showing 14.72v. So i should be getting MPPT usuage even on this cloudy rainy day.
So from my panels:
50w at the moment since 8am the current voltage is 14.72 and has 0.02 ah
20w panel is at 9.65v and has drawn 0.027ah
My meter after the MPPT is showing 0.03 amps
Whilst holding the panel voltage at 14v.
Think im gonna have to get the dongle and look a little more into this. Or perhaps just follow P@F and stick battery in bonnet and wire ituo therr
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OK here is todays report so far , remember it was at 12.99v yesterday at 5.30pm
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Right , the rain has eased off now so im going to have a go at that striplight !
I did notice that in the load section on the first pic , underneath it has a space for current in amps , whether or not it shows on the graph i wont know until i wire it in and reconfigure the settings .
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Next question.
If you put a load on the MPPT controller, will the current also show up on the 'report' you have there. So in other words, will your controller also monitor your pump current draw if you had the pump wired up to your load connections rather than directly to the battery?
Superb question that , matey in the shop told me to stay wired as i was and not use load , and i was to turn load off in the battery settings menu , however it has to be worth a look at , i may do it with the pump but i have seen the drill pull over 10 amp when it was struggling a bit , that could cause damage as the controller is only rated for 10 amp .
I do have a 12v strip light in the shed , in a bit i will put that on an see if it puts it on the info data screen .
First i will check on the battery state as i said .
Keep checking in though as you know i wont be able to resist a little experiment ;D
I definitely wouldn't put your drill through that load connector, but your pump will be fine as it doesn't draw that much current.
If its a Spring Controller you have then I'm sure they use a 7.5 amp fuse don't they?
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Yes Spring controller all fused up so no worries there .
Only problem is i cant get the load output to come live !!
No matter what setting i use it wont switch over to live , im at a loss , i even went to the shop but they are shut .
I assume that you can use both BAT and LOAD outputs at the same time ?
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Mine is the 75/10 ,
I section 4.2 it explains the settings , i cant see a reason why its not working
Always on should sort me , with no waiting time .
All the other settings seem to have a 2 minute wait period before coming live , if that means each time the pump is powered then that is of no use to me .
If it means to initially make the change to live then that would be ok , but does that mean that i have to have say the light connected and on for the 2 minutes for it to go live ?
https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:mppt-solarchargers#load_output
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Mine is the 75/10 ,
I section 4.2 it explains the settings , i cant see a reason why its not working
Always on should sort me , with no waiting time .
All the other settings seem to have a 2 minute wait period before coming live , if that means each time the pump is powered then that is of no use to me .
If it means to initially make the change to live then that would be ok , but does that mean that i have to have say the light connected and on for the 2 minutes for it to go live ?
https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:mppt-solarchargers#load_output
Where does 4.5 RX port function come into it on your controller.
Just setting theload output program to 5 should be enough. What about the 'street light' settings?
There is a reason for that 2 minute delay. If gives the controller time to adjust it settings. So its probably better to continue the way you are doing.
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Yes i see , upon reading that again i think that it could be Rx or streetlight related , its that or its broke !
I have been at it with a multimeter on all settings and i am getting no power through the load at all .
If i had to guess i would say moving the 0% value on street light up a bit might well switch it to "on" mode .
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Yes i see , upon reading that again i think that it could be Rx or streetlight related , its that or its broke !
I have been at it with a multimeter on all settings and i am getting no power through the load at all .
If i had to guess i would say moving the 0% value on street light up a bit might well switch it to "on" mode .
Or just switch the street lighting slider to off.
It looks like that function is related to sunrise and sunset and takes a couple of days to dial itself in, provided of course you don't switch the panel off every night. Of course if you switch the function off then it shouldn't matter if you switch the panel off at night.
These things are clever technology aren't they?
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Funny you should say that , thats exaxtly what i went back out and tried at 8pm , by 8.04 i had the evidence !!
I get the info on the real time screen , but could not see any log of total amps out on any of the others , maybe that kind of stuff is included with the wifi kit you can get to stream to pc .
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I was switching the panels off once the sun went out , but that was while i was using the meters and they would pull power all night , now it all just stays on as it will then charge while im lazy chuckin ZZZ's ;D
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What does concern me though is , apart from my inability to spell exactly is , the battery voltage had dropped a fair bit , although i had been out there with the van interior lights on , maybe this is the case , as we know my lights like to eat power as this is what its all been about !
I think letting it rest now until tha mora is a good idea , but then to put my % charged charger on it to see what kind of reading that throws up , i was meant to do it the other day after it was showing as fully charged on the dongle app .
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What does concern me though is , apart from my inability to spell exactly is , the battery voltage had dropped a fair bit , although i had been out there with the van interior lights on , maybe this is the case , as we know my lights like to eat power as this is what its all been about !
I think letting it rest now until tha mora is a good idea , but then to put my % charged charger on it to see what kind of reading that throws up , i was meant to do it the other day after it was showing as fully charged on the dongle app .
I wouldn't get too worried about it atm. You just need to keep monitoring the battery voltage. Start to be concerned when the voltage reading is around 12.4/12.5 after rest as you need to take action and bench charge. Its not only your interior lights that will be sucking power from your battery. Every time you remotely lock and unlock the van those motors do consume power. (If my charger is on float mode and I unlock the rear door of the van with the key the charger doesn't kick in. If I use the remote c/l to unlock then the charger kicks in and stays on for quite a while. My c/l is on my van battery but I do have a bi directional split charge relay, so when I charge my leisure battery, the van's starter battery also gets topped up. I'm fortunate as I just plug my charger in when the van is on the drive way.)
You may also find that the unit also uses a bit with keeping tabs on the system and having the dongle will also use slightly more power.
The other thing is that drawing power from the battery does mean that it needs to stabilise again. When the battery has been charged a true reading of its state of charge can only be taken after its been at rest for 4 hours. It will be the same when you draw current. The system needs to rest for that same time period. If you open the doors with the central locking you put paid to that reading as its no longer accurate.
Then you do have that 'magic eye' on/in the battery. If that is showing green then you have a battery at +-75% to fully charged. If it goes black then extra charging is needed. The Magic Eye functions are based on the specific gravity of the acid. It is one of the most accurate methods for determining the state of charge of a battery.
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Im not overly worried to be honest as its now back to showing 13.16v , its not in float but that is probably due to the dongle and the controller pulling there little bit of power as you say .
Even after the messing about yesterday i have decided not to use the load at all , well at least until i find out how the power is supplied , if you remember the other day you said that it may take what it can direct from panels and make up the shortfall with power from the battery ?
If this is the case and my controller works as the Epever Tracer then MPPT conversion could go out the window .
But at least i know how to switch load on now anyway ;D
Also with using the chinese meter at least i will still get a total power used value at the end of each day , lets not forget that i also have 2 redundant meters now , so if i really want to include the draw of the drill i can wire one to that also .
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Im not overly worried to be honest as its now back to showing 13.16v , its not in float but that is probably due to the dongle and the controller pulling there little bit of power as you say .
Even after the messing about yesterday i have decided not to use the load at all , well at least until i find out how the power is supplied , if you remember the other day you said that it may take what it can direct from panels and make up the shortfall with power from the battery ?
If this is the case and my controller works as the Epever Tracer then MPPT conversion could go out the window .
But at least i know how to switch load on now anyway ;D
Also with using the chinese meter at least i will still get a total power used value at the end of each day , lets not forget that i also have 2 redundant meters now , so if i really want to include the draw of the drill i can wire one to that also .
That thought had crossed my mind as well at some point during the mental churn.
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Ok , so am i reading this right ?
As the dongle does not give usage out from the battery , i see that i had 30 Wh in via dongle app and just over 120Wh out via the chinese watt meter , so solar has replaced 25% of my usage today , am i right ?
Got some thoughts on re siting the panels or maybe just the big one to get a better angle , but not sure if i would benefit ?
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Ok , so am i reading this right ?
As the dongle does not give usage out from the battery , i see that i had 30 Wh in via dongle app and just over 120Wh out via the chinese watt meter , so solar has replaced 25% of my usage today , am i right ?
Got some thoughts on re siting the panels or maybe just the big one to get a better angle , but not sure if i would benefit ?
Sounds right to me.
25% input seems pretty good for a winters day. If you are on float tomorrow morning the alternator has replaced the rest.
The trouble with aiming your panels directly at the sun is that when you move the van the panels won't be facing the sun. So what you gain one minute you lose later. That would be why the RV's etc have them flat. There is also less chance of the wind getting underneath them and peeling them off the roof as you are driving down the road. The gusts of wind generated passing some lorries must be taken into account.
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The last reading i took was at 3.45 , the battery was reading bang on 13 volt , now at 8.30 it is at 12.88 volt .
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The last reading i took was at 3.45 , the battery was reading bang on 13 volt , now at 8.30 it is at 12.88 volt .
Thats fully charged.
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Ok im sorted now for these poor sunny days.
My van had some electronic works done to it by the previous owner. It had a orange strobe light on which I cut off and taped up the wires and forgot about it. The switches are on the dash board as the van has a fan fittedon the roof as well.
Now as far as I could tell, these were wired up by the company who did the fibre glassing as well.
So I have wired it up with a blocking diode and connected it to the leisure battery which I can take on and off at will.
So driving back home I can turn it on. Which should help finish charging the battery after the solar panels.
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On paper i cant see a reason why that wont work Nath , but im unsure as to which battery will take the charge from your alternator , twin battery one source is not a thing i know about , it could go one of 3 ways i reckon ...
1. Van battery takes the full hit , once full it passes on to the leisure battery .
2. The charge is split equally between the two .
3. Leisure takes the full hit , using van battery as a bridge , then charges the van battery .
I think Spruce has done his homework on this part !
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All i know is that i went to that dreaded place today where i keep getting battery failure , i whacked the hazards on and went about my biz , cant lie though my arse was making Maltesers !
Jumped in and it fired up and away , by the end of play i was down to 12.6V , a 10 mile drive home put me back to 13.2V , that was at 3pm , re checked at 7.45pm and has dropped back to 12.9V over the nearly 5 hours , which should mean im fully charged , but the best bit is that i have a 10 mile run back to work in the morning just to make sure !
The battery has not seen domestic charge since 15 January , which is on the way to what i have been searching for , if you are going to spend any money in the future i would at this point recomend that it be on a Numax multifunction battery and do what i have done , of course , it is still early days , so watch this space matey ;D
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On paper i cant see a reason why that wont work Nath , but im unsure as to which battery will take the charge from your alternator , twin battery one source is not a thing i know about , it could go one of 3 ways i reckon ...
1. Van battery takes the full hit , once full it passes on to the leisure battery .
2. The charge is split equally between the two .
3. Leisure takes the full hit , using van battery as a bridge , then charges the van battery .
I think Spruce has done his homework on this part !
What Nat is doing is manually switching his connection on and off between his van battery/alternator and his leisure battery.
A split charge relay will do it automatically for him. With manual switching there is always the possibility that he forgets to switch the connection off.
The 'hit' will always be to the battery with the least charge. Its my guess that if his van battery is in good condition, it will almost always be more fully charged than his leisure battery. If he left that switch on with the engine off, then the starter battery will end up draining into the leisure battery. Having a Voltage sensing realy will tend to give preference to the charge of the starter battery over the leisure battery for good reason.
I would just need him to verfy that the wiring he is using is fused and is of a good current capacity to carry the charging load.
As I've said before, I've seen my initial charge into my leisure battery up at 22 amps after a heavy day. Thinner gauge wiring will tend to regulate that initial surge, but overheating cable can cause many issues.
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Its early days yet and todays trial was good but my leisure battery only dipped to 12,7 once during the day but I had good sun input so the leisure battery was floating around 12.9. So i didnt need a big charge from the van battery but i did use it to top up my 12v 27ah battery that i use for my electric reel, whilst on my coffee break.
Good point Spruce, i will wire in a fuse as im not sure if one exists on the wiring at the moment or not.
I have fitted a blocking diode to prevent reverse charge/drain from my leisure batter as well as fitting a amp/volt meter to it as well. These meters also have a one way flow. However I manually connect the end onto the leisure battery for when I want to use this charging method. When its not in use, its coiled up and hung on a hook inside the van. So when i get home, i sort the van ready for the next day and will be disconnecting it, hopefully also ensuring that I wont forget to turn it off and drain the starter battery.
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How did you get on today ?
Have not looked at mine yet as no work done today ;D
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How did you get on today ?
Have not looked at mine yet as no work done today ;D
Quite pleased with myself today. My battery yesterday was fully charged at 13,5 (at night anyway) so i was off to a good start.
Im pleased at the moment with my solar panel setup (kinda haha) had about 25v coming in and then the weather picked up slightly. But i had a packed lunch today, so ate that in the van with the engine running to give a boost to the battery and again on the 15min home journey. So tonight my battery is showing 13,3 and my van battery is showing a healthy reading as well.
So much so, that I have connected the mppt to my back up battery, that i use for the pump inside my van tank for trolley transfer. That battery is at 12.8, so im hoping a little early sun can give an early boost to that one.
But tomorrow is a different day and friday van goes for MOT (not looking forward to that day)
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Well if those readings of 13.5 and 13.3 are at rest without the engine running then it looks like you have it cracked too !
I was getting concerned when i was getting readings of 13.2 at rest , then in the morning seeing that it had dropped back to 12.9 , but that is seen as full , but then you have the drive to the first job , which is in my case at least 5 mile , but most of the month is 10 mile , and that will boost them right back up again .
I am getting to the point already where im feeling that i dont even need to check the voltage , maybe getting a little cocky if you like .
My test is coming soon , large commercial retirement home that takes about 5 hours straight , the ideal situation would be a poor day of solar , being that the van moves only once for 100m tops i would then see to what extent the alternator puts juice back into the battery , if i get home on this day with 13.2 and it doesnt drop stupid amounts over night then that would be what i consider to be the setup i have been looking to achieve , wish me luck !
And good luck with the MOT on Friday , its always one of them malteser arse moments on the calendar ;D ;D ;D
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Well if those readings of 13.5 and 13.3 are at rest without the engine running then it looks like you have it cracked too !
I was getting concerned when i was getting readings of 13.2 at rest , then in the morning seeing that it had dropped back to 12.9 , but that is seen as full , but then you have the drive to the first job , which is in my case at least 5 mile , but most of the month is 10 mile , and that will boost them right back up again .
I am getting to the point already where im feeling that i dont even need to check the voltage , maybe getting a little cocky if you like .
My test is coming soon , large commercial retirement home that takes about 5 hours straight , the ideal situation would be a poor day of solar , being that the van moves only once for 100m tops i would then see to what extent the alternator puts juice back into the battery , if i get home on this day with 13.2 and it doesnt drop stupid amounts over night then that would be what i consider to be the setup i have been looking to achieve , wish me luck !
And good luck with the MOT on Friday , its always one of them malteser arse moments on the calendar ;D ;D ;D
If i remember I will take battery readings in morning and see what they settled down to.
All the best with the final test then, might be a pack lunch day with engine running for half hr whilst ur eating to perhaps give an extra boost
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Nah mate , i like to live life on the edge ;D
Im hoping its overcast and dull to be honest , now that would be a true test you see !
As it is so far solar intake has been dire , mostly 10 Wh per working day lately , and the battery has not needed the bench since 15th Jan , Im not that brave though as will have my old van battery stored in my pump box should the worst happen i still get home
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Nah mate , i like to live life on the edge ;D
Im hoping its overcast and dull to be honest , now that would be a true test you see !
As it is so far solar intake has been dire , mostly 10 Wh per working day lately , and the battery has not needed the bench since 15th Jan , Im not that brave though as will have my old van battery stored in my pump box should the worst happen i still get home
10 wh isn't even one amp; its 0.83 amps.
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Nah mate , i like to live life on the edge ;D
Im hoping its overcast and dull to be honest , now that would be a true test you see !
As it is so far solar intake has been dire , mostly 10 Wh per working day lately , and the battery has not needed the bench since 15th Jan , Im not that brave though as will have my old van battery stored in my pump box should the worst happen i still get home
10 wh isn't even one amp; its 0.83 amps.
What !!!!
What is the conversion Spruce , the app has changed it all for me , with the meters it was easy , i had amps in and amps out ,
Now i only have W in Wh in and nothing for out , via app anyway .
Looks like i need to do some conversion now >:(
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It does make sense though as i was moaning when winter came that i was getting less than 1 amp in all day from a possible 6.75 amps per hour :o
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Bit of panic there !
So every 10 Wh is 0.83 Amp
Im going to need 50Wh to run my pump for 1 hour then , at a draw of about 4 amp which is usual for me ?
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My leisure battery, though everything connected to it is turned off once I've finished work is also showing 12.9 this morning after resting all night
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Yes mine is pretty much the same !
Way better day of solar today , had 50Wh in which is just over 4 amp .
I only had 9 go out so the alternator must have put at least 5 back in too !
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I stumbled across this today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qD3mN8VotQ&t=9s
https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/Sailboat-Solar-Series-Parallel-Shading
So maybe if you have 2 panels you need to have 2 MPPT controllers to ensure that 1 shaded panel doesn't 'kill' the other..
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Dont think you can run 2 mppt with series can you ?
And with parralell as they work independantly it doesnt require 2 as the feed from the good panel will just go in with the feed from the bad , im not really sure on it really .
I have not really had a problem with shading yet , depending on where i can park i am either in the sun or not , not much i can do about that side of things .
As the solar is getting a bit better now i will have another look at series and parralell again , it will be easier now that i have them quick connectors , it was always a chore before with terminal blocks !
I will check when the sun is out again how the shading test goes with my panels , a nicely folded microfibre and my pole should do the trick !
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Dont think you can run 2 mppt with series can you ?
And with parralell as they work independantly it doesnt require 2 as the feed from the good panel will just go in with the feed from the bad , im not really sure on it really .
I have not really had a problem with shading yet , depending on where i can park i am either in the sun or not , not much i can do about that side of things .
As the solar is getting a bit better now i will have another look at series and parralell again , it will be easier now that i have them quick connectors , it was always a chore before with terminal blocks !
I will check when the sun is out again how the shading test goes with my panels , a nicely folded microfibre and my pole should do the trick !
You're right. You can't run 2 controllers if the panels are wired in series.
I was thinking more about Nats setup with one panel angled toward the sun and the other facing the opposite direction. I wondered if the 'shaded' panel (the one not getting the fully rays of the sun) was pulling down the other panel exactly as these 2 yachties found with blocking just one cell on one panel. Shading the one single cell 'killed' the output of both panels.
The installers who face panels on different sides of the roof, say facing east and the other array west, split the array into 2 different sections with an individual controller/inverter for each array.
Your panels are both flat so this shouldn't be an issue for you Rich.
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I am seriously considering running 2 mppts.
The reason being;
On each panel I can see how much wattage/ampage is being produced, from that i decide which way Im running my panels. Either in series or parallel.
So im averaging 20v on one panel and 10 on the other. Now if i turn these panels on individually my MPPT controller will confirm this input before it brings it down to about 14v. Yet, in this example if I turn both panels on, i expect the MPPT controller to confirm the initial input at 30v. It doesnt, it shows at 20. Now as of yet I havent the dongle to see specifics but it would appear that its only taking the strongest input.
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I did a bit of testing today as the weather was pants , totally overcast with light drizzle, i thought i would retest my reason for being in series during the no sun times .
First i had the full 120w of panels in series , this gave me 5w. = 1/24
Then i had the full 120w of panels in paralell , this gave me 3w. = 1/40
Then the 80w on its own , i got 2w. = 1/40
Then the 40w on its own , i got 0w. = Feck/all ;D
So that for me reconfirms that series is the way to go during these times , this is obviously when having the MPPT comes into play , i had averaged 30v over the day , so 15v of overvoltage must have been the boost i got .
I think i need to do the same on a sunny cloud free day now , just to be sure on both counts .
The shading aspect as i say is not a big concern for me , if i have to park in bad light so be it , after all i am out there to clean windows not harvest free energy , more so now that alternator results are so good alongside the solar .
I will do the shade test on a sunny day though to to see how i am affected in series/paralell .
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Nath , how is your alternator performing now its in the mix , as much as i hate to say it , i think that i am getting more benefit from the alternator than i am from solar ;D
Although , the alternator is useless if you are parked up , so it is the best of both worlds having both sources .
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Nath , how is your alternator performing now its in the mix , as much as i hate to say it , i think that i am getting more benefit from the alternator than i am from solar ;D
Although , the alternator is useless if you are parked up , so it is the best of both worlds having both sources .
Agree with you, having both during these not so good days is beneficial.
I checked my van battery yesterday to be sure it was ok, after resting 24hrs and it showed 12.6. So today i didnt use the alternator and checked my battery not long back and its resting nicely just over 13v. Thankfully quite sunny here in donny so i didnt do too bad from solar. My leisure bat is about 12.9.
Just a question about ur mppt. On mine, it shows the source input in volts, so if i turn one panel on it will show 20v and after about 30 - 40 seconds it will reduce the volt to 14. Is this normal? Im guessing it is from what ive seen on some videos.
But my concern is, when i turn off that panel and turn on the 2nd panel which may show 15v at the time. When i turn both panels, im thinking the MPPT should show 35v before dropping the volt.(?) but it doesnt. It will just show the strongest voltage. Does this mean its blocking the extra 15 from the 2nd panel altogether ??
Because if not I should be yielding more from the MPPT and meter after it, than the meter before the MPPT
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Are you wired paralell when this is happening ?
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You are wired paralell aint ya !
I see what you are doing matey ;D
If you are in paralell , only the highest voltage from 1 of the 2 panels will be recognised by the MPPT , so if you have 20 from one and 15 from the other only 20 will go to MPPT this will then get dropped to the 14/15 that is needed to charge the battery , the other 5 or 6 then gets coverted to extra amps and sent to the battery.
If you are set in series , the combined voltage of the 2 panels gets recognised , anything from 0 to 48 volt i believe , so my series system today was taking in around 35volts , 15 went to charge the battery and the other 20 got converted to amps by the MPPT and then got sent to the battery .
MPPT is only really a real benefit when you have a fair amount of overvoltage hence why series is better in the gloomy weather , it can work better to have paralell when you have sun because you are grabbing the higher amps from the word go without having to worry about voltage so much .
I think Spruce put a vid on this thread showing that your model of MPPT used a fair lump of power to actualy get the over voltage conversion going , it may well be worth looking back and watching it again (Solar shed guy)
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See , look along the Vmax columb , 15 went to battery , the rest would have been converted by MPPT .
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Here you go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YowgBCl1F1I
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And you can get the WiFi for as little as £20 here ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFIiDAw1R3M
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Ooops , i have just remembered you dont have the tracer do you , might not work then , probably do similar though from where you got it , Photonic Universe ?