Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: shaunjames on June 17, 2006, 06:59:34 pm
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I need a pole for some flats 3rd storey, about 30 ft I guess. Most of my work though will be 2nd floor, can anybody suggest a pole that would do for both, or will I have to buy 2. Can you buy a 30ft pole that can be reduced?
Cheers
Shaun
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Shaun,
I bought a pole a 38ft pole from Gardner systems, and then dismantled the
last two sections giving me 24 ft for 2nd floor work, when I need to any higher
I just reassemble it back again. This takes about 5 mins but know I'm lazy
and use my 24ft for 3rd storey work.
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
Doug
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The 30 foot Unger Tele-Pole is ideal for what you need as sections can be added and taken away as and when needed.
Peter
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Peter
How much for backpack and unger pole only. Would the price include fitments ready fitted to accept pole or would this be extra.
Cheers
Shaun
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Doug, is it easy to take pole apart? just bought same pole, didn't realise it would be that big :o
also got 4.5ftx2 for bottoms. was intending to use 38ft pole for 1st floor as well as the odd 3rd storey,going to be too heavy as it is though.
any advice much appreciated
regards, Callum.
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Callum,
Pretty easy, mine came with a flow valve. Here are the instructions Alex
Gardner gave me :-
Instructions for disassembly of fibre glass pole
1. Using two 19 mm spanners, undo the pole side nut on the flow control
valve. This will now allow the hose to be pulled through the sections being
taken off.
2. Decide which clamp you need to undo (if wishing to remove two
sections, you will need to undo the second largest clamp). Using an Allen
key, undo the plastic peg-retaining bolt. Remove and keep. With a
screwdriver, pry out the plastic peg and keep.]
3. Using a wide flat bladed screwdriver, open up the two halves of the
clamp
slightly and now pull the bottom two sections of pole out from this clamp.
4. Remove the two white plastic spacers from the bottom of the exposed
section of pole, loosen the bottom clamp lever and slide the clamp off.
5. Refit the 19 mm flow valve nut to the flow valve.
I then asked for the rubber end to be sent to protect the bottom.
Doug
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Solve all your problems and shell out for the ergo tec pole it will reach any height as long as the water is 000
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or you could spend 196+VAT for a 30ft ecolite from brodex, have one myself, only weighs in at 2.7kg with alloy base cap and duralok clamps, nice pole
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30 ft pole
where does it stop
rough prices
unger £80
gardiner £150
brodex £200
facelift £380
carbon fibre £600
are we making this wfp too technical for our own good,remember these products have to work for you and produce profits to justify the cost
are the prices kept high due to this being a selective market, if they came of the shelf in b and q , what prices would they be
I know a lot of research goes into making these poles lighter with better clamps
etc but at the end of the day it is just a pole.
jinky.
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Hi Jinky,
I thought I would take the time to answer this question, as I am stuck at home on this sunday morning with sick kids and my wife has gone out with the only well child!
Yes they would be cheaper if they were sold at B&Q, off the shelf,......but they would only do this if they could guarantee sales of 40-50,000 of each size of unit per year. I recently was in communication with one of B&Q suppliers and they would only consider a bespoke item being supplied if I was prepared to commit to 50,000 units being bought at a time!
The truth about this window cleaning market is that whilst it is relatively large by our standards it is actually very small compared to other markets. As a result any items that we suppliers have commisioned cost us a relatively high set-up cost and this has to be passed on to the customer.
We set up our firm as a natural progression of supplying certain parts that other firms didn't stock, we then decided to try and supply good value products one of these being poles.
Over the last 5 years we had worked out which poles we found worked the best, and decided to start supplying them. The poles we supply have to be bought at a minimum order value of about £20,000 at a time, we have just finalised supplying another carbon-fibre pole and for this we will have to make an investment of about £30,000. Ionics reportedly spent over £100,000 in just set-up costs for their ergo-lite poles.
The suppliers available for these products are limited and there is not a large degree of competition amongst the manufacturers. In fact due to tough market conditions there is a lot of consolidation amongst the firms, Exel the main supplier has just bought out the one competitor in the UK. Hence those of us that wish to have them made for us have a very limited range of suppliers.
The other problem is due to rising commodity prices. The growing Chinese industry is proving problematical for most other consuming nations, for instance due to the Chinese demand for Carbon Fibre the current prices for Carbon Fibre are going up by 15% a month and has been for the last few months, this presents a difficult situation for suppliers to provide accurate future price forecasts, on one product we were looking at recently it went up by 35% in just 3 months.
This is the problems faced by us WC suppliers, looking round at the market there is actually quite a good choice out there for window cleaners, whilst this can make it difficult to decide what to buy it does mean that you do have a choice which is what a free market is all about.
If B&Q did sell poles they would be so competitive that, in such a small market, they would probably be the only supplier and you would only be able to purchase the type of poles they decided to sell you. Where's the benefit to us Window cleaners in that.
On a side point I think you will find that the pole weight for the Brodex is just for the pole not the gooseneck, hose and brush.
Alex Gardiner
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Alex thanks for replying, and the information given made some good reading
however I would probably buy from you as I recon an average £150 for a 30 fott pole is a fair price, but companies like facelift etc are asking window cleaners to part with say nearly £400 for a 30 foot fibre glass pole.Dont get me wrong the pole does look impressive, but when you are buying a few, can small companies justify paying this kind of money for poles
I know the market is limited but if the price, product is not correct for the cumsumer, then I think several companies will have dead products on their shelves.This industry in general is not a high flyer earnings industry, and suppliers should take time to find out the amount of cash their customers will part with rather than baffle them with high tech to justify cost of product.
in general the customer will buy once and will not return for a second.
Your own prices are very good and come in at average costs for a very good product, and for this I compliment you, however I would like to see other suppliers follow suit and give average products at average prices to suit the average window cleaner
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ive got a facelift 30ft pole i bought it as a 24ft pole but it wasnt long enough so i bought another section and just slotted it in to make it a 30ft , you can take sections out or add them with ease also i have got a 18ft extender pole very light but the facelift 30ft is only fractionaly thicker than the 18ft
i have felt other poles and the facelift is lighter by a long way
gary
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thanks for replying gary but do you think the extra costs for the facelift which is about £250 over alexs pole jutifies itself
I am not getting at any supplier here but simply looking for feedback from other window cleaner to see if the extra costs jutify paying, taking into concideration that some window cleaners only pull their 30ft pole out now and again
jinky
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The 30ft Brodex weighs in at 2.7kg inc pole and angle adapter, doesn't include brush, sorry I should have been clearer. I've used all types of exel poles and otherwise and feel in my own opinion that for the extra £50 or so the brodex justifies its cost with being so much lighter while still being very rigid. The less weight you have to wrestle with the less work you are doing and so will be able to do the work quicker with less strain, I'd hate to be using a standard pole at 30ft.
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thanks for replying gary but do you think the extra costs for the facelift which is about £250 over alexs pole jutifies itself
I am not getting at any supplier here but simply looking for feedback from other window cleaner to see if the extra costs jutify paying, taking into concideration that some window cleaners only pull their 30ft pole out now and again
jinky
hi jinky
my problem was that i need a selection of poles i use 18ft most of the time then i needed a 24ft for some jobs and now i need a 30ft pole and it is possible in the future that i will need a 36ft pole if i get the job , now to use the 36ft pole for a job is ok but then when i only need the 24ft pole my only option would be to use the 36ft where with the facelift i just take 2 sections out , it works for me and i am happy with it although i am no expert as i have only had the pole a month.
if you go to cleantech's site it gives you the weight of the pole as to can i justify the money it has cost , for me it has been money well spent as it is just what i need but for someone else it might not be
hope that makes sense
gary
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gary I can understand using a lighter pole justifying itself if used on a daily basis
but for new lads coming into wfp, it is a lot of money to get started with when it is only used now and again.What I am saying for these lads there has to be a central ground on costs for the lads to get started.Gary could you send me pics of how you add sections, because like in an earlier post I brought up the question of hose being outside the pole allowing chaps to buy only one pole.
My experience uptil now is that the pole is fitted with hose, with a small hose hole at the bottom of the pole for the hose to come out. The suppliers put on an O clip to hold the connector and this clip has to be hacksawed off, the hose is then heated to remove the connector, a section placed on to the pole to enlarge the pole, the connector replaced onto the hose to use the pole at a higher height.Cleaners cannot afford this time and most chaps would buy a bigger additional pole having now paid for 2 poles
.With the hose outside you only need to get quick release couplings, disconnect the height you are using slide the extra section onto the pole and reconnect the coupling, takes about 3 secs, allowing chaps to buy only one pole
When I ask questions I dont direct my questions on this site to anyone person, but as a whole to new and old window cleaners at different levels, this way you get a variety of answers and views to the different equipment we use.
however a few chaps said they prefer the hoses inside- great-but I would rather they explained if they are buying several poles for different heights or explain how they move upto a higher height.If the answer is using several poles, then this can create a lot of cost for poles if buying the more dearer poles
please explain and give me a clearer view what everyone is doing out there to change heights in a very quick time when on site
I look forward to your replies and thank you inanticipation of your co-operation from members
jinky
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the couplings I use female £6.00 male £2.30 from pirtek
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hi jinky where'd you get the blue hose from?
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Peter
How much for backpack and unger pole only. Would the price include fitments ready fitted to accept pole or would this be extra.
Cheers
Shaun
£265.00,
£277 Including hose as well.
£346 including Autobrush.
You have to add VAT and delivery to these prices.
Peter
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Worth £346 just for an Autobrush Peter :) (grovel, creep, cough ;D )
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Thanks Jeff,
BTW is the little black toggle on yours still working fine? It is just that now I replace the standard pin that goes through the toggle with a new much stronger one. What was happening was if the brush took a hit from the top it was bending the little pin. Maybe yours is more protected on your brush, but if you do have trouble with it let me know and I will send you a new one.
Peter
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jm the hose is on the cleantech site about a pound a metre
had a look on the brodex site, like the idea of the metal base cap i have an extender pole and the plastic cap has been held with everything from silicone to aradite and it still falls off, maybe a thing other manufacturers good learn from them
jinky
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Hi Jinky, thanks, wasn't sure if it was coplexol or not, yeah the alloy cap is very nice, sure does look after the pole really well - slight problem (I'm being impartial here, don't forget I supply these poles) the base cap can really make a mess of customers cars! Ours are all gaffer taped at the bottom to stop the scraping - ouch! :'(
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hi jinky
the hose has to be threaded through the pole but unlike other poles the sections have no stops on them so they just slide out of each other so you can change the size of the pole in, well i will time myself in the next few days, but i would recon it would take no more than 10mins maybe 5 i will take some photos for you , explain what you want photos of .
i have been wfp for 8 months and i would still do it the way i have , a mate of mine has just bought a cheap 24ft pole and i have felt it and it is very heavy compared to the facelift also the diametre of his pole is a lot thicker than mine , i couldnt work with his pole all day but i could with the facelift 24ft or 30
the weight of his 24ft pole inc brush is 3.78kg
the weight of the facelift 30ft inc brush is 3.39kg
if i use it as a 24ft it weighs inc brush 2.84kg
the extra cost save me back ache so to me it is worth it but it might not be for everyone.
i started with the extender 18ft pole £100 very very light i still use it daily and would say to newcomers to try that one first to save cash but the facelift 18ft is even lighter than the extender , i think it all boils down to preference and as with me, age, as im not getting any younger ( i am looking younger though ;D ;D )
thanx
gary
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gary thanks for the info, and I think that facelift should make this a point of telling people that they have open bottoms for connecting additional pole sections, but most site love to show you the goose neck of the poles and only take pictures of this part on their websites, jm123 has loaded his poles up with great pics and it is about time other suppliers did the same so that we may see the products in the flesh and judge the differences, so come on suppliers if your products are that good get the pics up and let us judge. The proof is in the pudding
jinky
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hi jinky i actually asked facelift to put me a plastic adjustable neck on the end of the pole instead of the gooseneck so that all my brushes would fit ,
gary
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hi jinky i actually asked facelift to put me a plastic adjustable neck on the end of the pole instead of the gooseneck so that all my brushes would fit ,
gary
I have this pole as well 29 ft carbon fitted with the plastic adaptor for a domestic brush rather than a goose neck and commercial brush...its the dogs bollics ;D ;D. Like Gary has said the poles are a good fit in to each other and dont have the plastic guides at the bottom of each section. Therefore they can have sections added and taken away very easily.
Mick
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Hi jinky
Ihave three different sized poles for dirrerent hights the 60' opole is thankfully not used much but has got me contracts I would not have got otherwise and so does pay for itself i that way . this works for me as I have some contracts which I have to call in some others to help with hence I need the poles
I take your point though and do agree that the prices a a little top heavey in some cases, however though some companies have clearly gone ott on the prices others do try to give value for money brought some hose reel from chick the other day london based very competative price very quick service del price good too.
these I have seen on others sites up to £20.00 more?
It boils down to wether or not the prices we can get from our customers allows us to pay these prices I would say that if prices rise much more the domestic market could be set back however a decision by H&S to bad ladder work could see a sharp rise in prices making it a very viable market overnight
manafactures should be aware though that if prices are seen to be to high people will start to barstardise other products to cut cost and this will not be good for the industry as a whole
regards grant