Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on December 18, 2017, 09:58:11 pm
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i noticed today the digital temperature reading wouldnt go above 30c even when i kept the boiler running for 30 mins when i was having my lunch(return to tank)despite the temperature dial being on full.(flow on 010)
is this normal for a 9.9kw diesel heater in cold weather?or is there another setting on the digital display that i dont know about to get the water hotter?is the boiler running in half heat mode?no mention of it in the grippa instruction manual?
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i noticed today the digital temperature reading wouldnt go above 30c even when i kept the boiler running for 30 mins when i was having my lunch(return to tank)despite the temperature dial being on full.(flow on 010)
is this normal for a 9.9kw diesel heater in cold weather?or is there another setting on the digital display that i dont know about to get the water hotter?is the boiler running in half heat mode?no mention of it in the grippa instruction manual?
Have you got the valve on the heat exchanger fully open ???
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i noticed today the digital temperature reading wouldnt go above 30c even when i kept the boiler running for 30 mins when i was having my lunch(return to tank)despite the temperature dial being on full.(flow on 010)
is this normal for a 9.9kw diesel heater in cold weather?or is there another setting on the digital display that i dont know about to get the water hotter?is the boiler running in half heat mode?no mention of it in the grippa instruction manual?
Have you got the valve on the heat exchanger fully open ???
the dial on the side of the heater wont turn anymore so i presumed it was on full power.ill have a play with it tomorrow.
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Think I'll stick with cold....
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the digital temperature on the hydroheat system reads the temperature of the water in the tank. if you have a 600l tank it will take a massive amount of energy to heat all the water in said tank to 80degrees for example. this is not the way the hydroheat system works, it heats a small amount of water (the water that passes through the heat exchanger) on the way to your hose reel and out through your pole. because it is only required to heat this small amount of water, when turned right up, it can comfortably heat the water to 80degrees more or less.
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the digital temperature on the hydroheat system reads the temperature of the water in the tank. if you have a 600l tank it will take a massive amount of energy to heat all the water in said tank to 80degrees for example. this is not the way the hydroheat system works, it heats a small amount of water (the water that passes through the heat exchanger) on the way to your hose reel and out through your pole. because it is only required to heat this small amount of water, when turned right up, it can comfortably heat the water to 80degrees more or less.
i think your wrong there mate.the digital temperature reading on the liquid logic controller is NOT the temperature in your main tank!its the temperature of the water in the header tank in the boiler that then comes out of your hose reel.
basically the temperature mixing dial on the side of my heater is on full but im only getting warm water at brush end which is ok at this time of the year but i want to be able to turn the temperature up to 50c in the spring and summer esp for add on jobs.
oliver said these heaters can heat the water up to 60c but im not finding thats the case at the moment.
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I don't think the controller measures the on demand heat. Mine shows around 25 c after its been running a bit with water coming out of coiled hose hot if it was only 30c it would be luke warm.
The sensor is placed where it will work best for frost stat to avoid it turning on and off too many times. The frost stat comes in at 2c and runs until the water increases another 5c.
Not 100% sure where the sensor is though.
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Must admit.......
Grippa tank seem awesome at customer service, and will of course sort out any issues, but that’s both daz and slacky that have just had the systems fitted, and both are having issues.
Bit concerning considering the cost, and also the fact that for me I’m about 2 hours drive away from the Scotland fitting centre, so not just round the corner for a simple fix.
Hmmm.
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Admittedly mine is second-hand. I bought it from a forum member.
This sensor fault on mine was diagnosed when it was fitted, however Grippa didn't have the part in stock. They're coming down to Hampshire to fit it, no labour charge, just paying for the part.
Thats great customer service at no fault of their own.
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I don't think the controller measures the on demand heat. Mine shows around 25 c after its been running a bit with water coming out of coiled hose hot if it was only 30c it would be luke warm.
The sensor is placed where it will work best for frost stat to avoid it turning on and off too many times. The frost stat comes in at 2c and runs until the water increases another 5c.
Not 100% sure where the sensor is though.
if you press your liquid logic controller a few times( press enter to see BAT then press enter again and TMP should show then press again and you should get a temp reading)this starts to climb when you turn your heater on when its plugged into the return to tank valve.after 15 mins or so itll climb up to 30c but the water at brush end is warm(but not scolding hot).it wont go above 30c despite the mixer valve on full and the water wont go any warmer than warm.
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Must admit.......
Grippa tank seem awesome at customer service, and will of course sort out any issues, but that’s both daz and slacky that have just had the systems fitted, and both are having issues.
Bit concerning considering the cost, and also the fact that for me I’m about 2 hours drive away from the Scotland fitting centre, so not just round the corner for a simple fix.
Hmmm.
the remedial fuel issue was a ford problem not a grippatank problem.they ve been fantastic to deal with from start to finish.all sorted now. :)
the temperature issue is probably something simple im missing.im just getting used to the system.
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I checked my output water temp over the weekend Daz, it was running at about 45.
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I don't think the controller measures the on demand heat. Mine shows around 25 c after its been running a bit with water coming out of coiled hose hot if it was only 30c it would be luke warm.
The sensor is placed where it will work best for frost stat to avoid it turning on and off too many times. The frost stat comes in at 2c and runs until the water increases another 5c.
Not 100% sure where the sensor is though.
Good morning,
The above is correct - the sensor and temperature reading on the controller is not the temperature output on the heater, but rather the temperature of the water coming at the coldest part of the system, where the output of the water tank is. The reader on the controller is monitoring this for a frost scenario.
At heater output point, the heater will happily heat up to very hot temperatures (upto on the water output - 60-70c), although the actual heater itself heats to 80c. However there is two important notes to remember:
- The Heaters are a on demand flow based heating system - so reducing your water flow by 5 points on the controller can increase your output temperature by about 20%. Our recommended flow rate is 25-30 on our controllers.
- At this time of year (particularly in this cold snap), the incoming water from the water tank is much colder, so it takes longer for the heater to get upto full temperature.
- As soon as water exits the heater output on the side of the cabinet, you are losing heat especially when it’s very cold. The more hose that is pulled out of the reel, the colder it will get - especially if the HydroHeat Hot hose is not fitted - although any hose will lose temperature along cold ground.
@dazmond @slacky - please do contact us via support@grippatank.cp.uk or on 01223 790049 if you require any technicial support and we would be very happy to help you.
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Thanks for clearing that up. :)
I found an old tds meter this morning with a temperature reading on it so I checked the water at brush end and it was reading 30c(with around 60m of hose out with ambient air temperature of 4c)and the controller was reading 17c.i must admit I was slightly confused!!
I will now just ignore the controller reading from now on. :)
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I have a frost stat streamline flow controller and is as accurate as a TDS meter,I can’t thank Grippa enough that smart B2B smart charger they’ve done for me is spot on fantastic company I’ll only ever use them now.
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i checked the temperature of the water at brush end again this afternoon, flow control on 30 (around 60m of hose off the reel again)ambient air temperature 6c and it was reading 35c which is warm water(but not hot).i think a lot of heat is being lost from the hose(i use standard gardiner yellow microbore).
oliver told me that temperatures at brush end would vary from 20-30c on a cold winters days to 50-60c in spring/summer.(depending on how much hose is off the reel)
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i checked the temperature of the water at brush end again this afternoon, flow control on 30 (around 60m of hose off the reel again)ambient air temperature 6c and it was reading 35c which is warm water(but not hot).i think a lot of heat is being lost from the hose(i use standard gardiner yellow microbore).
oliver told me that temperatures at brush end would vary from 20-30c on a cold winters days to 50-60c in spring/summer.(depending on how much hose is off the reel)
Yes probably worth changing your hose mate. Take a temp reading from coiled hose without the pole. Mine is scolding hot.
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i checked the temperature of the water at brush end again this afternoon, flow control on 30 (around 60m of hose off the reel again)ambient air temperature 6c and it was reading 35c which is warm water(but not hot).i think a lot of heat is being lost from the hose(i use standard gardiner yellow microbore).
oliver told me that temperatures at brush end would vary from 20-30c on a cold winters days to 50-60c in spring/summer.(depending on how much hose is off the reel)
Yes probably worth changing your hose mate. Take a temp reading from coiled hose without the pole. Mine is scolding hot.
what hose do you use paul?
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I use the 6mm red supplied by grippa. You can see it in the photo on that pic thread you put up.
I do find it a little heavier and more rubbery but it's worth it.
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I use the 6mm red supplied by grippa. You can see it in the photo on that pic thread you put up.
I do find it a little heavier and more rubbery but it's worth it.
ah yes its the red thermobore.i used to have the same hose but gardiners only sold it in 8mm years ago.what a nightmare.far too heavy.although the 6mm would probably be ok.cheers mate. :)
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I use the 6mm red supplied by grippa. You can see it in the photo on that pic thread you put up.
I do find it a little heavier and more rubbery but it's worth it.
ah yes its the red thermobore.i used to have the same hose but gardiners only sold it in 8mm years ago.what a nightmare.far too heavy.although the 6mm would probably be ok.cheers mate. :)
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/thermobore-100m-reinforced-hose-6mm-id
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I use the 6mm red supplied by grippa. You can see it in the photo on that pic thread you put up.
I do find it a little heavier and more rubbery but it's worth it
ah yes its the red thermobore.i used to have the same hose but gardiners only sold it in 8mm years ago.what a nightmare.far too heavy.although the 6mm would probably be ok.cheers mate. :)
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/thermobore-100m-reinforced-hose-6mm-id
It’s brilliant hose but very heavy I have one reel with it and one with yellow microbore the red is now 3 years old and I have changed the yellow once , if just doing commercial work I would stick to the red , but if doing domestic I think the yellow is better as it’s more manageable and easier to pull round corners , the difference in water temperature between the two is minimal
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Any updates on temperature daz?
With your hose coiled on the reel you should see a much higher reading.
Also are you sure your heater isn’t stopping and starting during your work? If I’m Right in saying you didn’t get a second pump fitted to constantly recirculate and keep the heater running. I heard someone else in here mention within about 2 minutes of having the water flow stopped, there heater goes into shut down.
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Grippa sell the 6mm red. They’re out of stock after I left Friday😅 although they may have more in by now.
im gonna stick to the standard yellow microbore mate for an easier working day. ;)
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Any updates on temperature daz?
With your hose coiled on the reel you should see a much higher reading.
Also are you sure your heater isn’t stopping and starting during your work? If I’m Right in saying you didn’t get a second pump fitted to constantly recirculate and keep the heater running. I heard someone else in here mention within about 2 minutes of having the water flow stopped, there heater goes into shut down.
it was reading 44c when coiled up on the reel after the heater had been running for 20 mins(return to tank)on my way to work but with 90m of hose out this afternoon its only warm at brush end not hot due to losing a shedload of heat through the hose.
i expect the water to be a lot hotter in the warmer months but in winter warm water is all im gonna get apparently(with most of my hose off the reel.)
im just glad i didnt go for the 5kw heater as i reckon it wouldnt even get warm at the brush end.
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Yes. I am surprised they bother to sell the 5kw heater.
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Any updates on temperature daz?
With your hose coiled on the reel you should see a much higher reading.
Also are you sure your heater isn’t stopping and starting during your work? If I’m Right in saying you didn’t get a second pump fitted to constantly recirculate and keep the heater running. I heard someone else in here mention within about 2 minutes of having the water flow stopped, there heater goes into shut down.
it was reading 44c when coiled up on the reel after the heater had been running for 20 mins(return to tank)on my way to work but with 90m of hose out this afternoon its only warm at brush end not hot due to losing a shedload of heat through the hose.
i expect the water to be a lot hotter in the warmer months but in winter warm water is all im gonna get apparently(with most of my hose off the reel.)
im just glad i didnt go for the 5kw heater as i reckon it wouldnt even get warm at the brush end.
I wonder how much extra heat you would be getting if you had a second pump Fitted or had a pressure relief valve fitted.
In my mind that seems the best option. So you turn water off with the univalve, the pressure builds up, which in turn opens the relief valve, and hot water starts going back to the tank.
That would then mean your tank water would start to heat up, giving you a hotter header tank, and In turn hotter water at the brush head.
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Mines a 5kw different model though I have a 300series thermo too C it’s an older version although I got mine 2 months ago brand new as they still stock them. I am achieving on flow 10 on the controller 68-72 degrees back to tank method between jobs,when I jack it up to 70-75 on the flow I’m easily getting 40-50 degrees. A lot of it in my experience with them is all about the condition of the battery’s if you have optimum charger he heater will perform far better. I do a lot of miles day to day which puts a fair bit back into them if I mains hook up in between one evening it pumps like a porn star my heater.
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I use a second controller to continually feed back to tank. Only on a low flow rate. The tank heats up nicely and helps keep burner up to temp
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In use a second controller to continually feed back to tank. Only on a low flow rate. The tank heats up nicely and helps keep burner up to temp
I reckon this has to be the best way.
👍
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
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Mines a 5kw different model though I have a 300series thermo too C it’s an older version although I got mine 2 months ago brand new as they still stock them. I am achieving on flow 10 on the controller 68-72 degrees back to tank method between jobs,when I jack it up to 70-75 on the flow I’m easily getting 40-50 degrees. A lot of it in my experience with them is all about the condition of the battery’s if you have optimum charger he heater will perform far better. I do a lot of miles day to day which puts a fair bit back into them if I mains hook up in between one evening it pumps like a porn star my heater.
how come your 5 kw heater gets to higher temperatures than my 9.9kw heater?
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
Mine is 400ltr. I only fill up enough to cover the day. By the afternoon the what's left in the tank is then hot.
During the morning the water slowly climbs and helps increase the temp via hose. Replicates the increase in temp in the summer
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my batteries are brand new and so is my b to b smart charger
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
Here’s quite a few users on here do it this way, and they say by the afternoon the water is sometimes so hot they turn the burner off.
Plus it means you have a higher starting temperature of the water. So it has to increase your output temperature.
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
Here’s quite a few users on here do it this way, and they say by the afternoon the water is sometimes so hot they turn the burner off.
Plus it means you have a higher starting temperature of the water. So it has to increase your output temperature.
i very much doubt you ll have say 250L of hot water left in your tank by lunchtime even with a return to tank constantly running using another controller.i could be wrong though.
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Think I'll stick with cold....
Plus 1!
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If had shelled out £4-5k on a heated system I would expect at the very least piping hot water.
With the option of being able to turn the heat down.
Tris
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If had shelled out £4-5k on a heated system I would expect at the very least piping hot water.
With the option of being able to turn the heat down.
Tris
You really don’t want to use anything hotter than 50 degrees on the glass, and the 9kw heaters are more than capable of that. Plus no chance of blowing yourself up with lpg. 8)
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
It does make a big difference I have a 1000 ltr tank by lunch time 500 ltr in the tank is that hot you couldn’t keep your hand in it
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It’s not done to heat the water in the tank it wouldn’t be possible in a 600 ltr tank over the course of a day to make any difference,I do it to get the water temp up traveling between jobs.
Here’s quite a few users on here do it this way, and they say by the afternoon the water is sometimes so hot they turn the burner off.
Plus it means you have a higher starting temperature of the water. So it has to increase your output temperature.
Quite correct water I. The tank is that hot by lunch time you wouldn’t want to try and put your hand in it for long ,,,,
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If had shelled out £4-5k on a heated system I would expect at the very least piping hot water.
With the option of being able to turn the heat down.
Tris
It is piping hot but if you have 100 meters of hose on a icy path , road etc it will cool it down reasonably quickly , but that doesn’t really matter as you don’t want- need 70+ degrees on the glass in freezing conditions
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If had shelled out £4-5k on a heated system I would expect at the very least piping hot water.
With the option of being able to turn the heat down.
Tris
my heater is on full power and the water is warm but not hot with 90-100m of hose out at this time of year.i expect it to be hot in the spring/summer months though(50c-60c).
oliver told me to expect 20-30c on a cold day in winter and 50-60c in the spring/summer depending on how much hose is off the reel.
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If had shelled out £4-5k on a heated system I would expect at the very least piping hot water.
With the option of being able to turn the heat down.
Tris
You can turn the heat down! Probably worth doing your research.
No matter what you cant control the drop in temp when hose it fully out in freezing weather. It's science and cannot be altered.
The water is scolding hot from the coiled hose. And even hotter in the afternoon when the tank warms. You would not want to use water at boiling point ;D
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Daz your water should get hotter than that m8 30 degrees,I reckon your batts ain’t charging much
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Grippa tank came down from Cambridge today to fit the temperature sensor.
Works like a brand new baby now, and it is piping hot.
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Daz your water should get hotter than that m8 30 degrees,I reckon your batts ain’t charging much
When the new sensor was fitted we checked the temp of the water in the header tank to see at what point the thermostat kicked in . It was anywhere around the 80°C - 85°C mark.
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Yeah if your header tank is getting to that temp your water temp may drop drop to 30 degrees but you would have to be running water to the pole at maximum flow and even then it would or should get hotter than that. Try it when the batts are fully charged I bet the water gets hotter.
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Daz your water should get hotter than that m8 30 degrees,I reckon your batts ain’t charging much
my batteries were showing a full charge this morning nigel.the heater was on for 6 hours continuously today(without going into shut down mode) and the coiled up temperature was 42c(less with 90m of hose out)ambient air temperature was 10c.i measured this after 30 mins for lunch (with the return to tank connected up).
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
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The 9 kw heater is the one used for 2 man although I have spoken to those that know about them and they’ve said the 5kw is a better heater,mine is a series 300 thermo top C mine will run on a much lower voltage I had a choice when buying it but went for the lower voltage one as I was having charging issues at the time a couple of months ago. The lowest it seems to go is around the 40 degree mark but on a cold morning at even that temp it will look like the brush is on fire.
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
Daz........ I’d really check that out. It seems like it’s not hot enough. Especially compared to other users.
If you’ve said a single operator system could they have thought you meant the 5kw? Surely not.
At 10 degrees ambient temperature, it’s really not that cold. You should be getting more than 45 degrees at the brush head from a totally coiled hose. Once you’ve put that hose on the ground your gonna lose about 10-15 degrees, so 30 degrees at the brush head is only Luke warm. I was getting that from my 2kw immersion tank.
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
Daz........ I’d really check that out. It seems like it’s not hot enough. Especially compared to other users.
If you’ve said a single operator system could they have thought you meant the 5kw? Surely not.
At 10 degrees ambient temperature, it’s really not that cold. You should be getting more than 45 degrees at the brush head from a totally coiled hose. Once you’ve put that hose on the ground your gonna lose about 10-15 degrees, so 30 degrees at the brush head is only Luke warm. I was getting that from my 2kw immersion tank.
its defo a 9kw heater jonny ive got the webasto warranty to prove it (thermo pro 90) and i discussed this with oliver before i ordered it.
it was oliver who told me the temperature at the brush head would be 20-30c in the winter months and 50-60c in the summertime.up to now thats bang on what im getting.
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
Daz........ I’d really check that out. It seems like it’s not hot enough. Especially compared to other users.
If you’ve said a single operator system could they have thought you meant the 5kw? Surely not.
At 10 degrees ambient temperature, it’s really not that cold. You should be getting more than 45 degrees at the brush head from a totally coiled hose. Once you’ve put that hose on the ground your gonna lose about 10-15 degrees, so 30 degrees at the brush head is only Luke warm. I was getting that from my 2kw immersion tank.
its defo a 9kw heater jonny ive got the webasto warranty to prove it (thermo pro 90) and i discussed this with oliver before i ordered it.
it was oliver who told me the temperature at the brush head would be 20-30c in the winter months and 50-60c in the summertime.up to now thats bang on what im getting.
Im sorry daz but getting 42c at the coiled hose seems far too low to me , i have a 9kw purefreedom (same thermo 90 inside) and when on return to tank with hose coiled , it gets so hot you cant hold it .
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i remember nigel having a problem with his not getting the water hot enough.what did you do to tweak it mate?
ill test it again today.(i havent got another controller fitted constantly returning water to the tank.)maybe its because i only have one heat exchanger?
the temperature dial is defo on full.
do you guys use 100m standard microbore or the thermobore?personally i dont think the hot hose would make much of a difference and the extra weight would make it self defeating.
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The flexi pipe that adjust the temp I blocked it off so no cold can circulate back through it has a flat screw it’ll invalidate your warranty if you do it.
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
Daz........ I’d really check that out. It seems like it’s not hot enough. Especially compared to other users.
If you’ve said a single operator system could they have thought you meant the 5kw? Surely not.
At 10 degrees ambient temperature, it’s really not that cold. You should be getting more than 45 degrees at the brush head from a totally coiled hose. Once you’ve put that hose on the ground your gonna lose about 10-15 degrees, so 30 degrees at the brush head is only Luke warm. I was getting that from my 2kw immersion tank.
Yes but I bet you didn't get a free toaster with your 2kw immersion. lol.
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you dont think grippa have installed a 5kw heater in my van and charged me for a 9kw heater do you? ;D ;D
the webasto warranty says its a thermo pro 90? ;D
Daz........ I’d really check that out. It seems like it’s not hot enough. Especially compared to other users.
If you’ve said a single operator system could they have thought you meant the 5kw? Surely not.
At 10 degrees ambient temperature, it’s really not that cold. You should be getting more than 45 degrees at the brush head from a totally coiled hose. Once you’ve put that hose on the ground your gonna lose about 10-15 degrees, so 30 degrees at the brush head is only Luke warm. I was getting that from my 2kw immersion tank.
Yes but I bet you didn't get a free toaster with your 2kw immersion. lol.
;D