Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Soupy on November 04, 2017, 06:17:29 am
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/03/one-million-businesses-self-employed-people-could-dragged-vat/
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you actually operate ? At the end of the day its the customer who loses out.
As i dont have to charge VAT at the moment is certainly not something i want to see happen.
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If it comes down to 20k as they're suggesting at least it going to affect pretty much every window cleaner. So it's not that bad really.
Yes you will get customers who don't want to pay 20% extra but finding a non VAT registered window cleaner should be quite hard.
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If it comes down to 20k as they're suggesting at least it going to affect pretty much every window cleaner. So it's not that bad really.
Yes you will get customers who don't want to pay 20% extra but finding a non VAT registered window cleaner should be quite hard.
Thats my thinking too, you get your rouge cleaner now not declaring earnings etc, so there is a possibility that could increase. But if every company has to do it then it doesnt change much IMO obviously just makes things more expensive for the customer.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
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Quite simply if this was implemented sole traders would be fecked.
If I turnover 40k with 20% vat 20% tax plus NAT ins running costs etc I would be left with nothing. Seriously would be be better off stacking shelves in Asda.
Can see why they want to do it, as loads just stay under VAT on purpose.
Greedy, horrible people.
Only 2 options for a sole trader if this happens, sack it off and get a job or build an empire, anything else is going to be not worth the hassle.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
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Quite simply if this was implemented sole traders would be fecked.
If I turnover 40k with 20% vat 20% tax plus NAT ins running costs etc I would be left with nothing. Seriously would be be better off stacking shelves in Asda.
Can see why they want to do it, as loads just stay under VAT on purpose.
Greedy, horrible people.
Only 2 options for a sole trader if this happens, sack it off and get a job or build an empire, anything else is going to be not worth the hassle.
If you were turning over 40k with VAT, then you wouldnt have been turning over that before the VAT. You simply have to add the VAT to the customer, the problem arises if that then makes the customer not want to pay it and cancels. And if every window cleaning company has to follow suit it balances itself out. All this does is makes things more expensive for the customer at the end of the day and you become a tax collector for the government. On the flip side your expenses would drop as you would be reclaiming the VAT back on your purchases (i think).
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
The problem with that is you’d be worse off by 20% for every job, you’d have to add the 20% to earn the same amount. So basically our customers would have a 20% price increase for the sake of the governments greed.
It’s the same old story, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
The problem with that is you’d be worse off by 20% for every job, you’d have to add the 20% to earn the same amount. So basically our customers would have a 20% price increase for the sake of the governments greed.
It’s the same old story, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...
Thats what it boils down too.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
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Quite simply if this was implemented sole traders would be fecked.
If I turnover 40k with 20% vat 20% tax plus NAT ins running costs etc I would be left with nothing. Seriously would be be better off stacking shelves in Asda.
Can see why they want to do it, as loads just stay under VAT on purpose.
Greedy, horrible people.
Only 2 options for a sole trader if this happens, sack it off and get a job or build an empire, anything else is going to be not worth the hassle.
If you were turning over 40k with VAT, then you wouldnt have been turning over that before the VAT. You simply have to add the VAT to the customer, the problem arises if that then makes the customer not want to pay it and cancels. And if every window cleaning company has to follow suit it balances itself out. All this does is makes things more expensive for the customer at the end of the day and you become a tax collector for the goverment.
The customer doesn't care about you or vat they just care about the price.
Hi Mr customer just sticking your bill up 20% due to vat.
2 problems with this. First one they cancel so now your turn over is even less and you still have to pay vat which means you are going to be in financially difficulty.
Second one they accept, meaning you could have had that extra 20% in your pocket.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
Exactly
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If you currently charge a customer £20, you’d have to increase the price to £24.
£15 would become £18.
Most customers wouldn’t be happy with this and I think they some would drop the frequency of clean, or give up having there windows cleaned all together.
Bad news for us, it’s a really unfair situation for window cleaners who rely on regular smaller amounts of money. If it were a one off job, the customer wouldn’t care. The problem with us is the regularity of the job.
Basically window cleaners and similar businesses should be exempt in my opinion.
It wouldn’t be so bad for a plumber, for example. As they see a set customer maybe once in a 3 year period. So that customer won’t be concerned with paying vat on a one off job. But for regular jobs like ours, the customer is paying vat every month, every year for years...
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
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So we would be forced to increase prices by 20% and see no increase in our profits, becoming unpaid tax collectors for HMRC.
It's likely the lower earners (sub 30k) would not be allowed to claim back vat on purchases.
We could get fined or imprisoned for failing to submit the vat return on time or by making an honest mistake on the return.
There would be an increase in accountant's fees to pay.
And there's a strong possibility that a good few customers will reduce the amounts of cleans per year, which will affect end of year profits.
Are there any positives to this?
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So we would be forced to increase prices by 20% and see no increase in our profits, becoming unpaid tax collectors for HMRC.
It's likely the lower earners (sub 30k) would not be allowed to claim back vat on purchases.
We could get fined or imprisoned for failing to submit the vat return on time or by making an honest mistake on the return.
There would be an increase in accountant's fees to pay.
And there's a strong possibility that a good few customers will reduce the amounts of cleans per year, which will affect end of year profits.
Are there any positives to this?
The government obviously hate sole traders because they know cash in hand and tax evasion goes on etc. In effect they can't control them.
Imo they want to squeeze them out, get them all into big businesses where they can be monitored and pay vat etc or force them back in paid employment where they are subject to taxes .
The government are not daft, they know there is a black market out there and they are losing millions in revenue. This is just another way to squeeze every penny out of everyone.
This country is poope.
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its never gonna happen.if philip hammond goes ahead with this there will be a furious backlash(like the NI hike)and he ll do another massive U turn. ;D
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So we would be forced to increase prices by 20% and see no increase in our profits, becoming unpaid tax collectors for HMRC.
It's likely the lower earners (sub 30k) would not be allowed to claim back vat on purchases.
We could get fined or imprisoned for failing to submit the vat return on time or by making an honest mistake on the return.
There would be an increase in accountant's fees to pay.
And there's a strong possibility that a good few customers will reduce the amounts of cleans per year, which will affect end of year profits.
Are there any positives to this?
Yes it will make you feel like your a real business man when posting all your vat receipts through the doors. lol.
plus MP's will have a few extra quid to waste.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you for all you know that customer may have been happy paying £15. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place so what are you losing out on.
Dont get me wrong there are no positives to this at all and it would make things harder for us for sure with people wanting less frequencies etc and of course a forced price increase that has no benefit to the individual and something nobody really wants to do.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place.
Doesn't change the fact that your out of pocket, your now getting more money with nothing to show for it, plus your price rise
will need to go up more than 20% to cover extra accountancy costs, your time, and things like vat receipts for customers who may want them.
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If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place.
Maybe think of it this way then....
You pay 29% on profits currently, then the government will squeeze another 20% on top of that in added vat.
Your sweat and graft from a business that you built from nothing is turning out to be a nice little earner for the taxman.
Meanwhile you are no better off, and likely worse off due to less cleans per year.
But The Palace of Westminster will be extending the wine cellar, fitting diamond encrusted chandeliers and applying Gold Leaf to the interior walls.
Tory MP's will be giving themselves a pat on the back and a pay rise....
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The other thing to add is the fact that many sole traders will be keen to go the cash in hand route to avoid the vat.
So well done Phillip Hammond, you’ve successfully made the cash in hand system more desirable!
More rogue traders, more cash.
But it proabably won’t ever happen, if it does, we can all kick up a massive stink and protest in London with our poles as javelins.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you for all you know that customer may have been happy paying £15. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place so what are you losing out on.
Dont get me wrong there are no positives to this at all and it would make things harder for us for sure with people wanting less frequencies etc and of course a forced price increase that has no benefit to the individual and something nobody really wants to do.
My biggest worry is that 20% would be too much to simply add to people's bills. Let's say you turnover 40k and have the usual tax and N.i etc. By putting the vat on you could potentially lower your turnover to day 35k overnight by losing customers then on top of that you have a VAT bill of 20% plus the admin/accountant costs involved. It would put many a sole trader into financial difficulty to the point where they would be just working to make ends meet and pay their bills. So then you have the problem of those guys saying feck this I'm not grafting all week with the associated stressing of running a business to give half of my turnover away. So what they are going to do is start taking cash in hand or sack it off and claim benefits. There's no incentive to be a sole trader if this happens. It will ruin people chances of starting a business. Anyone else know when setting up you need these tax and N.I breaks until you become financially stable. It's madness
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I am surprised at the strength of reaction to this, surely this is a good thing being that this place ( up to now) has been the only place on earth where people actually aspire to be VAT registered? ;D
All it would do is massively increase the sub-20k sole trader wc industry! ;)
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I can always kill myself. Painless that way.
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I am surprised at the strength of reaction to this, surely this is a good thing being that this place ( up to now) has been the only place on earth where people actually aspire to be VAT registered? ;D
Stop it! (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1509789912_grin.gif)
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The other thing to add is the fact that many sole traders will be keen to go the cash in hand route to avoid the vat.
So well done Phillip Hammond, you’ve successfully made the cash in hand system more desirable!
More rogue traders, more cash.
But it proabably won’t ever happen, if it does, we can all kick up a massive stink and protest in London with our poles as javelins.
Exactly.
If all of a sudden there's a decrease in people wanting customers to use go cardless or Bacs then we will know why.
Suddenly cash collecting will everyone's favourite payment option again.
And they wonder why people rip off the system.
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I am surprised at the strength of reaction to this, surely this is a good thing being that this place ( up to now) has been the only place on earth where people actually aspire to be VAT registered? ;D
All it would do is massively increase the sub-20k sole trader wc industry! ;)
Yes on the plus side we can all work 10 hours a week now ;)
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you for all you know that customer may have been happy paying £15. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place so what are you losing out on.
Dont get me wrong there are no positives to this at all and it would make things harder for us for sure with people wanting less frequencies etc and of course a forced price increase that has no benefit to the individual and something nobody really wants to do.
My biggest worry is that 20% would be too much to simply add to people's bills. Let's say you turnover 40k and have the usual tax and N.i etc. By putting the vat on you could potentially lower your turnover to day 35k overnight by losing customers then on top of that you have a VAT bill of 20% plus the admin/accountant costs involved. It would put many a sole trader into financial difficulty to the point where they would be just working to make ends meet and pay their bills. So then you have the problem of those guys saying feck this I'm not grafting all week with the associated stressing of running a business to give half of my turnover away. So what they are going to do is start taking cash in hand or sack it off and claim benefits. There's no incentive to be a sole trader if this happens. It will ruin people chances of starting a business. Anyone else know when setting up you need these tax and N.I breaks until you become financially stable. It's madness
I agree with you completely regarding overall it's a bad thing if it was to happen with the possible extra costs of accountants, less frequencies etc and if a customer is prepared to take the hike or simply cancels it just makes things even harder. My point was the added VAT goes to the customer regardless of what there prepared to pay and what you charge, you cant say that would have been an extra 20% in my pocket if the customer accepts the increase as you were never charging that price in the first place (if that makes sense) i'm certainly no expert in this and of course it brings in extra problems with the chance of less frequencies etc and people resulting in more fiddling income and cash collecting .
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Can you claim for vat twice ?
Example, lets say you have £1000 on expenses and £200 of that is vat, at the moment we can claim back 29% on the £1000
but if we claim back the 20% vat that leaves our expense bill at £800 therefore we would be 9% worse off on £200.
Is this correct ?
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Can you claim for vat twice ?
Example, lets say you have £1000 on expenses and £200 of that is vat, at the moment we can claim back 29% on the £1000
but if we claim back the 20% vat that leaves our expense bill at £800 therefore we would be 9% worse off on £200.
Is this correct ?
Have no idea interesting to know though, i would presume that the £200 you claim back on VAT expenses would be profit and therefore you claim on the percentage on the £800 left, but if that worked in our favour and not the governments then its probably wrong ;D
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you for all you know that customer may have been happy paying £15. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place so what are you losing out on.
Dont get me wrong there are no positives to this at all and it would make things harder for us for sure with people wanting less frequencies etc and of course a forced price increase that has no benefit to the individual and something nobody really wants to do.
My biggest worry is that 20% would be too much to simply add to people's bills. Let's say you turnover 40k and have the usual tax and N.i etc. By putting the vat on you could potentially lower your turnover to day 35k overnight by losing customers then on top of that you have a VAT bill of 20% plus the admin/accountant costs involved. It would put many a sole trader into financial difficulty to the point where they would be just working to make ends meet and pay their bills. So then you have the problem of those guys saying feck this I'm not grafting all week with the associated stressing of running a business to give half of my turnover away. So what they are going to do is start taking cash in hand or sack it off and claim benefits. There's no incentive to be a sole trader if this happens. It will ruin people chances of starting a business. Anyone else know when setting up you need these tax and N.I breaks until you become financially stable. It's madness
I agree with you completely regarding overall it's a bad thing if it was to happen with the possible extra costs of accountants, less frequencies etc and if a customer is prepared to take the hike or simply cancels it just makes things even harder. My point was the added VAT goes to the customer regardless of what there prepared to pay and what you charge, you cant say that would have been an extra 20% in my pocket if the customer accepts the increase as you were never charging that price in the first place (if that makes sense) i'm certainly no expert in this and of course it brings in extra problems with the chance of less frequencies etc and people resulting in more fiddling income and cash collecting .
I completely understand your point and your are correct. But if like most cleaners they would like to put there prices up every few years for inflation then not only would they have to stick 20% on they would also be saying Goodbye to any planned prices rises or inflation for a few years as I don't think 20% plus another 10% for bi-annual price increase would go down right well ;D
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
Of course they dont care, but if i'm charging £20 for a house i would then charge plus VAT if i have too, i'm already getting the price i want, my takings will still be the same as it was before VAT so it wont cost me anything.
How does it not cost you anything ? you will have just upped your prices increased your profits and will be no better off, if your happy enough with that then fair enough but don't be fooled into thinking its not you who's paying for it.
No all i will have done is increased my turnover not profit.
True. but you could have increased your profit ok fine the vat wasn't thete
If you charge someone say £10 that would have been the price that you are happy with based on what you want to earn. If the customer is just as happy to pay £12 after adding VAT, then you havent lost anything have you for all you know that customer may have been happy paying £15. Yes you could say i could of charged him £12 and had more profit but you didn't in the first place so what are you losing out on.
Dont get me wrong there are no positives to this at all and it would make things harder for us for sure with people wanting less frequencies etc and of course a forced price increase that has no benefit to the individual and something nobody really wants to do.
My biggest worry is that 20% would be too much to simply add to people's bills. Let's say you turnover 40k and have the usual tax and N.i etc. By putting the vat on you could potentially lower your turnover to day 35k overnight by losing customers then on top of that you have a VAT bill of 20% plus the admin/accountant costs involved. It would put many a sole trader into financial difficulty to the point where they would be just working to make ends meet and pay their bills. So then you have the problem of those guys saying feck this I'm not grafting all week with the associated stressing of running a business to give half of my turnover away. So what they are going to do is start taking cash in hand or sack it off and claim benefits. There's no incentive to be a sole trader if this happens. It will ruin people chances of starting a business. Anyone else know when setting up you need these tax and N.I breaks until you become financially stable. It's madness
I agree with you completely regarding overall it's a bad thing if it was to happen with the possible extra costs of accountants, less frequencies etc and if a customer is prepared to take the hike or simply cancels it just makes things even harder. My point was the added VAT goes to the customer regardless of what there prepared to pay and what you charge, you cant say that would have been an extra 20% in my pocket if the customer accepts the increase as you were never charging that price in the first place (if that makes sense) i'm certainly no expert in this and of course it brings in extra problems with the chance of less frequencies etc and people resulting in more fiddling income and cash collecting .
I completely understand your point and your are correct. But if like most cleaners they would like to put there prices up every few years for inflation then not only would they have to stick 20% on they would also be saying Goodbye to any planned prices rises or inflation for a few years as I don't think 20% plus another 10% for bi-annual price increase would go down right well ;D
Absolutely mate.
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At the end of the day you could say the customer pays for everything including tax and NI but it certainly doesn't feel that way
when the money comes out of your account.
Fact is an employee will now be paying a lot less tax than somebody self employed if on the same money.
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My mortgage is paid off, I'm debt free and I get my army pension in 7 years time and I am gradually reducing my work so I would make sure I slide under the VAT level, no incentive to work hard for the taxman and the VAT guys. Plan on taking more time off for long breaks like the rich do by leaving the UK for up to three months each year.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
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Totally agree WW, Thankfully I'm in a similar position and will be doing the same, I don't mind paying my share in taxes but to watch somebody in an office job on the same or more money than me paying 20% less in tax is something I just couldn't handle.
I do feel for the many out there who will have no choice but to get on with it.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
Lee, how does it work then regarding claiming vat back on expenses as Dry Clean mentioned. So for instance something cost 1k including vat do you take back the £200 into your profit and then claim on the other £800 or is it done differently?
In a way i kind agree in that an even playing field is fair. I think what makes it a bit harder now is if you have been up and running for years your way of charging doing things doesnt take say paying VAT into it, as if you were just starting out you can account for it better knowing those are the rules to begin with, mentally thinking its a bigger deal going VAT registered overnight as to say pre planning it (if that makes sense).
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It'll never happen, the threshold might lower but not to anything near 20k as it will just incentivise and turbo charge the cash only industry! It would force price increases on many small businesses putting many in trouble and eventually end up with less tax revenue in the coffers from this sector.
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It'll never happen, the threshold might lower but not to anything near 20k as it will just incentivise and turbo charge the cash only industry! It would force price increases on many small businesses putting many in trouble and eventually end up with less tax revenue in the coffers from this sector.
No i dont think it will happen as the article explains but i wouldn't be surprised if there are changes coming. All the fun in running your own business/ working for yourself i suppose ;D
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If you buy something that is £1000 with vat then you claim £200 off your quarterly vat bill and the remaining £800 is a business expense for that tax year.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
Yes but the 85k buffer allows people to get things in ace before they take on Vat. They can get systems in place, accountants, get an employee or 2 and generally get themselves sorted and ready to steam into vat with momentum behind them.
If the threshold was refused to say 20k it would mean many who start out from nothing with no money are getting hit almost straight away, they cannot reinvest all they earn back in for growth as vat is turnover based so they are getting g no financial breaks whilst they get things in order. It's making things much harder right from the start, whereas the current threshold allows people to start up.
It's on saying nothing to worry about when your doing 500k turnover already and have already benefitted from the system. It's also on if you've paid your mortgage off and are winding down but for guys just starting it out it's a major kick in the buys that a lot won't or can take on the chin.
The only positive I can see is it will literally force a new business to sink or swim, do or die. Theres no point having a middle ground it will be either earn under 26k or whatever and evade tax and vat or get a job stacking shelves Vs push on right from the start and risk everything to earn enough to cope with the Vat. Being a sole trader earning less than about 60k Year will be completely pointless.
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I was answering a previous question not say who's better off or not.
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I was answering a previous question not say who's better off or not.
Sorry misread the answer, so deleted, quick reply. lol.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
This.
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its never gonna happen.if philip hammond goes ahead with this there will be a furious backlash(like the NI hike)and he ll do another massive U turn. ;D
100% agree. The media always like to over-hype things and look at most controversial/worst case scenarios. Just chill.
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Just target conservative voting customers and you can blame them for their price rise ;D
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
Yes but the 85k buffer allows people to get things in ace before they take on Vat. They can get systems in place, accountants, get an employee or 2 and generally get themselves sorted and ready to steam into vat with momentum behind them.
If the threshold was refused to say 20k it would mean many who start out from nothing with no money are getting hit almost straight away, they cannot reinvest all they earn back in for growth as vat is turnover based so they are getting g no financial breaks whilst they get things in order. It's making things much harder right from the start, whereas the current threshold allows people to start up.
It's on saying nothing to worry about when your doing 500k turnover already and have already benefitted from the system. It's also on if you've paid your mortgage off and are winding down but for guys just starting it out it's a major kick in the buys that a lot won't or can take on the chin.
The only positive I can see is it will literally force a new business to sink or swim, do or die. Theres no point having a middle ground it will be either earn under 26k or whatever and evade tax and vat or get a job stacking shelves Vs push on right from the start and risk everything to earn enough to cope with the Vat. Being a sole trader earning less than about 60k Year will be completely pointless.
To be honest Adam that shouldn't make a difference as you just have to allow for the 20% from the off, it will make it harder in
areas where customers are already pushed to the wire especially if interest rates and inflation start to go up even further, put it this way I know where I would make the first saving if I had to tighten the purse stings.
For others where things aren't just as tight it wont make the slightest difference to the playing field or how they run their business they will just have an extra 20% in tax to pay.
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It will never happen. Stop being so gullible ;D ;D
The uproar won't be for us. It will be the public that will face the cost as they pay vat on more services. VAT is not a tax on self employed it's a tax for people buying our service.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
This.
Good you actually get this, can you please explain why I cant buy a holiday and so on with cash and what a life based on cash means.
Plus how can window cleaning ever have an even playing field ?
Just one more, people who win work, clean, keep work, get paid , pay their taxes, my question is do they have to start paying vat before being considered to be running their businesses properly.
Sorry to be a pain but this business jibber jabber just goes over my head.
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What I find really annoying is that VAT was supposedly introduced for "luxury items" (imperial leather soap and hai karate talcum powder etc.), not bleedin' window cleaning. (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1509799543_rolleyes.gif)
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It will never happen. Stop being so gullible ;D ;D
The uproar won't be for us. It will be the public that will face the cost as they pay vat on more services. VAT is not a tax on self employed it's a tax for people buying our service.
100% agree , not to forget all the other smaller services you have, haircuts, guy to cut the grass(I'm lazy) etc.etc. Unfortunately window cleaning is nothing more than a luxury so thats where the cut backs start for those on the tight budget, at the end of the day it's down to the homeowner do decide what they feel is most important to them, some would give up that extra Costa coffee and some would rather have a packet of fAgs instead. For the last 5-6 years I only focus on the person who i think i know can afford the luxury of having their windows cleaned on a regular basis.
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What I find really annoying is that VAT was supposedly introduced for "luxury items" (imperial leather soap and hai karate talcum powder etc.), not bleedin' window cleaning. (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1509799543_rolleyes.gif)
How dare you miss out old spice aftershave ;D
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It will never happen. Stop being so gullible ;D ;D
The uproar won't be for us. It will be the public that will face the cost as they pay vat on more services. VAT is not a tax on self employed it's a tax for people buying our service.
LOL, why would the public be in an uproar, do they give off when you get your tax bill after all it them who pay that and it
costs them 29%.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
This.
That.
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What I find really annoying is that VAT was supposedly introduced for "luxury items" (imperial leather soap and hai karate talcum powder etc.), not bleedin' window cleaning. (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1509799543_rolleyes.gif)
Well I suppose if they consider Tampons a luxury item it was only a matter of time until they got round to window cleaning. lol.
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Funny that. Generally, those who are already VAT registered reckon it good, those who aren't don't.
Who'd a thunk it eh?
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IMO every business should be vat registered, evens out the playing field, its unfair that my business has to pay vat and other window cleaners do not have to
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Funny that. Generally, those who are already VAT registered reckon it good, those who aren't don't.
Who'd a thunk it eh
That's it in a nutshell. If any budget changes affect you whether you are employee, sole trader or ltd you won't be happy. If they don't you won't care less.
I'm the same as long as I'm alright I don't care about budget changes generally.
So we are all selfish.
But anyway will find out in a few weeks so until then fingers crossed.
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No one thought the government would go ahead with the different tax’s for landlords but it went ahead anyway. Now some landlords pay tax on their gross profit (their mortgage is classed as profit ffs ::)roll )
And some landlords are taxed as normal, it happened and now we’ve ( us landlords) have just got to deal with it .
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The government of the day wanted to do something similar to this some years back. I think they said that businesses over about £8k turnover would be affected. It never happened. I did actually write a lengthy letter to Dawn Primorola (or some name like that) expressing why I felt it was a bad move. I even got a standard reply after a few months.
I believe that small business would be hit hard because it would have a disproportionate effect. It could easily cause a quadrupling (or more) of accountancy bills or if someone chooses to do it themselves, mean working longer hours on paperwork.
It would increase costs to the end user, to the sole trader (or other below-VAT threshold business) and it would surely increase the level of fraud.
Of course another issue is that government's have a knack of changing VAT rates on a whim, sometimes with very little notice.
I'm quite knackered enough when I get in from work. Updating ordinary records - no problem. Having to adapt to another system - problem.
I wouldn't be absorbing the cost - it would be 20% increases all round (why the hell should I work for less money? - I'm having a tough time as it is). So I anticipate losing lots of work. It would also make it difficult to impose a normal price increase for some time to come.
I really hate these snotty-nosed-just-out-of-university pen pushers with a vengeance when they start lording it over the rest of us.
Anyone who disagrees with the proposals ought to write to their MP (and other interested parties) because silence is always taken as passive consent by these transient politicians with over-bloated egos.
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
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No one thought the government would go ahead with the different tax’s for landlords but it went ahead anyway. Now some landlords pay tax on their gross profit (their mortgage is classed as profit ffs ::)roll )
And some landlords are taxed as normal, it happened and now we’ve ( us landlords) have just got to deal with it .
Could you clarify, please?
My understanding is that interest on the mortgage no longer qualifies for tax relief. Was that it or were there other changes.
If I got that right, I don't agree with that either. Apart from applying different rules for property rental (compared to all other businesses), it can make me wonder if they may stop or reduce tax relief on interest for other businesses that have outstanding loans. It could also have the effect of inflating rents as property renters seek to make up the shortfall.
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
Is the telegraph a poxy paper?
Anyway, here it is being floated as an idea in the FT a week ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/30a00b9c-bafc-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
Is the telegraph a poxy paper?
Anyway, here it is being floated as an idea in the FT a week ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/30a00b9c-bafc-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852
Yep they all are
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
Is the telegraph a poxy paper?
Anyway, here it is being floated as an idea in the FT a week ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/30a00b9c-bafc-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852
Yep they all are
Fair point. So too though is news at 10. According to Morrisey anyway.
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
Is the telegraph a poxy paper?
Anyway, here it is being floated as an idea in the FT a week ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/30a00b9c-bafc-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852
Yep they all are
Fair point. So too though is news at 10. According to Morrisey anyway.
;D
If it happens then it happens nothing you can do about it really except adapt to it. I wont lose any sleep over it. Out of interest would it be better then to become a limited business or does it not make any real difference?
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I think if this really was something to happen or really being considered it would be making headlines on news at ten not some article in a poxy newspaper. there all full of it.
Is the telegraph a poxy paper?
Anyway, here it is being floated as an idea in the FT a week ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/30a00b9c-bafc-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852
Yep they all are
Fair point. So too though is news at 10. According to Morrisey anyway.
;D
If it happens then it happens nothing you can do about it really except adapt to it. I wont lose any sleep over it. Out of interest would it be better then to become a limited business or does it not make any real difference?
No difference.
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Funny that. Generally, those who are already VAT registered reckon it good, those who aren't don't.
Who'd a thunk it eh
That's it in a nutshell. If any budget changes affect you whether you are employee, sole trader or ltd you won't be happy. If they don't you won't care less.
I'm the same as long as I'm alright I don't care about budget changes generally.
So we are all selfish.
But anyway will find out in a few weeks so until then fingers crossed.
You are incorrect. If more people have money, as a result of a budget that has a perceived negative impact on my business, (rise in corporate tax maybe) then them people will be more more likely to be able to afford our services. Innit.
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If the VAT level came in at a low level and there was no way to slip under the level I would pass the VAT on to every customer and if I lose them I lose them, buggered if I'd absorb the cost and in effect take a pay cut. Government can go and swivel if I'm going to work harder just to break even with how I am now. I'm getting older and slowing down, no chance am I going to work longer hours with admin, accountants extra costs, the worry of paying everything on time, etc, stuff that, not worth it.
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Funny that. Generally, those who are already VAT registered reckon it good, those who aren't don't.
Who'd a thunk it eh
That's it in a nutshell. If any budget changes affect you whether you are employee, sole trader or ltd you won't be happy. If they don't you won't care less.
I'm the same as long as I'm alright I don't care about budget changes generally.
So we are all selfish.
But anyway will find out in a few weeks so until then fingers crossed.
You are incorrect. If more people have money, as a result of a budget that has a perceived negative impact on my business, (rise in corporate tax maybe) then them people will be more more likely to be able to afford our services. Innit.
Eh, no. There will always be plenty of perspective customers out there. I'd rather worry about myself . Window cleaning isn't expensive is it, you either want it or you don't you can get your windows cleaned for a fiver from a bucket Bob of you want. A couple of pence rise on fuel costs wouldnt be quite the breaking point to a customer that a 20% vat bill would be to a sole trader. Good try but feeble attempt at making an argument.
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I'm not engaging in an argument, just suggesting that your claim that we are all selfish, perhaps needs a little more thought.
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All the go cardless guys might be wishing they'd gone cash ;D And it will be fun paying an extra 20% to the taxi driver too.
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I think it’s time to expand my market stall at the car boots instead ;)
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IMO every business should be vat registered, evens out the playing field, its unfair that my business has to pay vat and other window cleaners do not have to
I'm sure most if not all of the non VAT paying businesses will gladly swap their businesses with yours, you just need to ask.
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IMO every business should be vat registered, evens out the playing field, its unfair that my business has to pay vat and other window cleaners do not have to
I'm sure most if not all of the non VAT paying businesses will gladly swap their businesses with yours, you just need to ask.
No point now, they'll be paying vat too shortly.
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All the go cardless guys might be wishing they'd gone cash ;D And it will be fun paying an extra 20% to the taxi driver too.
It's taken some time to convert customers to pay bank transfers who previously paid cheques and to pay online if out, they are happy paying this way and quite a few prefer to pay online rather than cash as they don't have it on them, it's simpler for everyone, I prefer it that way. Going around collecting cash use to be a pain in the rear to say the least and I wouldn't want to go backwards in that direction as it's too time consuming.
VAT, .........it's just a back door tax on the single self employed who take all the risks initially starting up, not everyone succeeds. I use to employ but owing to illness I don't anymore. Value my health more than worrying about keeping employees on with all the hassles that go with it.
I hope they don't bring in VAT on services otherwise Joe Public pays extra for haircuts, gardening, taxis, purchases in the markets and everything else as self employed lone workers are just trying to make a living and not thinking of building a business to grow big and make worthwhile, which takes a lot of time, dedication and organisational skills to make it work. Finding the right employees in some jobs that don't appeal to a lot of people can be frustrating, hence why many window cleaners are self employed and don't run franchises and expand as it can be so time consuming, stressful. More to life than building an empire if one is not that way inclined.
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IMO every business should be vat registered, evens out the playing field, its unfair that my business has to pay vat and other window cleaners do not have to
I'm sure most if not all of the non VAT paying businesses will gladly swap their businesses with yours, you just need to ask.
No point now, they'll be paying vat too shortly.
Not really, according to HMRC the average self employed shiner is on around £25k or slightly less, VAT may drive some of these
guys to grow their rounds which wont be easy with that sort of turnover but many will cut back just under the £20k and probably make up the shortfall with tax credits and back handers.
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I've added a poll, how low would you go to avoid charging VAT?
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Wouldn't have much choice but to keep growing and charge vat. Not interested in staying a sole trader forever, of course would much prefer as high a VAT threshold as possible to prolong having to register. But if it becomes compulsory then would have no choice.
To answer the question of say 40k as that's about my limit as a sole trader or should I say the limit of how much I want to do solo.
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Wouldn't have much choice but to keep growing and charge vat. Not interested in staying a sole trader forever, of course would much prefer as high a VAT threshold as possible to prolong having to register. But if it becomes compulsory then would have no choice.
To answer the question of say 40k as that's about my limit as a sole trader or should I say the limit of how much I want to do solo.
Thing is Adam at £40k you would be well up there in this game but even you would find it hard to push on, for instance
your £40k will reduced to £32k because of vat add on £6k or £7k in expenses and your down to £25k before tax and NI, then take in the fact that an employee wouldn't be as motivated to hit the £40k mark as you would and so on, doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room when it comes to employing.
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Wouldn't have much choice but to keep growing and charge vat. Not interested in staying a sole trader forever, of course would much prefer as high a VAT threshold as possible to prolong having to register. But if it becomes compulsory then would have no choice.
To answer the question of say 40k as that's about my limit as a sole trader or should I say the limit of how much I want to do solo.
Thing is Adam at £40k you would be well up there in this game but even you would find it hard to push on, for instance
your £40k will reduced to £32k because of vat add on £6k or £7k in expenses and your down to £25k before tax and NI, then take in the fact that an employee wouldn't be as motivated to hit the £40k mark as you would and so on, doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room when it comes to employing.
Quite right.
What meant was a 40k vat threshold would do me in terms of being a sole trader, if it came down an lower say 20k then that would be too little for me to live on meaning I would have to go over it as couldn't afford to live under it...so what I mean is if it came down to 20k and I was going to over it I may as well employ and aim to grow unlimited as to turnover say 40k would be pointless as you rightly point out half of it would be gone.
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Interesting...
I’m not VAT registered yet, but will probably go over the current threshold next year.
If the govt does lower the threshold, at least it will be national news. That means I’ll be able to add the price increase and custies will blame the govt not me.
And by the way, you’re not adding on 20%, because you can also reclaim the VAT on fuel and other purchases like poles etc. You’ll be adding on about 12%. So a £15 house will become £16.80, which is hardly a big deal.
However, since it’s the govt getting the blame you could just whack on the whole 20% and give yourself a little pay rise while you’re at it.
A few may cancel or reduce frequency, just replace em.
The only other cost is the additional admin of being vat registered. Bit of a pain in the neck.
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Interesting...
I’m not VAT registered yet, but will probably go over the current threshold next year.
If the govt does lower the threshold, at least it will be national news. That means I’ll be able to add the price increase and custies will blame the govt not me.
And by the way, you’re not adding on 20%, because you can also reclaim the VAT on fuel and other purchases like poles etc. You’ll be adding on about 12%. So a £15 house will become £16.80, which is hardly a big deal.
However, since it’s the govt getting the blame you could just whack on the whole 20% and give yourself a little pay rise while you’re at it.
A few may cancel or reduce frequency, just replace em.
The only other cost is the additional admin of being vat registered. Bit of a pain in the neck.
i must be missing something. Surely if you go VAT registered and charge £20 for a house you would need to add 20% so making the total price £24, but you only get to keep the £20 for yourself (although you still pay income tax and NI)
Or as in your example a £15 house surely becomes £18 with VAT added.
Not everybody spends a lot on items which you can reclaim VAT on each year, and that involves even more paperwork. I claim a mileage allowance for my vehicle, as opposed to a percentage of fuel receipts and maintenance costs.
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Interesting...
I’m not VAT registered yet, but will probably go over the current threshold next year.
If the govt does lower the threshold, at least it will be national news. That means I’ll be able to add the price increase and custies will blame the govt not me.
And by the way, you’re not adding on 20%, because you can also reclaim the VAT on fuel and other purchases like poles etc. You’ll be adding on about 12%. So a £15 house will become £16.80, which is hardly a big deal.
However, since it’s the govt getting the blame you could just whack on the whole 20% and give yourself a little pay rise while you’re at it.
A few may cancel or reduce frequency, just replace em.
The only other cost is the additional admin of being vat registered. Bit of a pain in the neck.
i must be missing something. Surely if you go VAT registered and charge £20 for a house you would need to add 20% so making the total price £24, but you only get to keep the £20 for yourself (although you still pay income tax and NI)
Or as in your example a £15 house surely becomes £18 with VAT added.
Not everybody spends a lot on items which you can reclaim VAT on each year, and that involves even more paperwork. I claim a mileage allowance for my vehicle, as opposed to a percentage of fuel receipts and maintenance costs.
Yes that's correct, 20% paid on turnover. So a £16.80 house you will actually end up with £13.44 for that job.
Once you're set up expenses are a minimum so not much to claim back if you're a sole trader or a couple of you working.
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i must be missing something. Surely if you go VAT registered and charge £20 for a house you would need to add 20% so making the total price £24, but you only get to keep the £20 for yourself (although you still pay income tax and NI)
Or as in your example a £15 house surely becomes £18 with VAT added.
Not everybody spends a lot on items which you can reclaim VAT on each year, and that involves even more paperwork. I claim a mileage allowance for my vehicle, as opposed to a percentage of fuel receipts and maintenance costs.
Yes, but you can still claim the VAT element of the fuel.
http://www.tmtaccounting.co.uk/blog/can-i-reclaim-vat-paying-45p-mileage-allowance
Yes the rate is 20%, but after you've deducted the input vat from the output vat, you're really only handing over to HMRC about 12%. So, if you wanted to keep everything exactly the same, you'd only need to increase your prices by that 12%.
So you work out the VAT on the fuel, the poles, the resin, the fairy liquid, cleaner planner, the workwear etc etc and it comes to about 8% of your turnover. Therefore, since you can claim that back, you only need to increase your price by 12% in order to be in the same position as you were before vat registration.
Similarly, you could simply go onto the 12% flat rate scheme, where you don't claim anything back, you just pay 12% of your turnover, and so (obviously) you only need to increase your prices by 12%.
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Don't forget the vat you can claim for years prior to registration. Innit.
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I'm not sure if this will make a drastic impact on people's lives or not. Our customers already pay VAT on most of the things they buy.
In our household we would have to pay the extra VAT on our window cleaning bill, yes. But the window cleaner is the most unreliable window cleaner we have ever had.
The wife would have to pay VAT on her 'mobile' hairdresser.
I expect I will have to pay VAT on my haircut at the local barber shop.
So all in all I can't think of anything else we would have to now pay VAT on. So I will have to clean an extra house this month to cover that.
But as has been said, we can claim some VAT back on the fuel we use and on the equipment we need for window cleaning. The downside is that we will have to submit VAT returns to the Receiver every 3 months I think it is. I'm not sure if this means we have to get an accountant to verify this or not. Its just more paper work for us and higher costs.
We may loose some customers who over react but I can't see it will be many. We had a few loose their jobs in the aftermath of the financial downturn in 2008, but some wives said he will go without his beer before I go without my windows cleaned.
We still have a large portion of our customers paying us cash. Adding VAT onto an £8.00 job means we will now have to carry as assortment of small change which we don't do now.
At the tail end of the day, it means more work for us. As for the receiver, he is going to be able to more easily identify the 'cash in hand' operators.
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It wont make a difference to the cash in hand operators, the powers that be cant prove that they're doing it now, adding vat
into the mix wont change that, the more likely outcome is you will get more shiners willing to accept cash in hand and more customers willing to pay the guys doing it.
The hairdressing industry is a good example of what happens when the government gets too greedy, many now operate from home because they don't have to pay high business rates water charges and so on which in turn puts a strain on the legitimate operators still on the high street.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
This response sums you up your now VAT registered so you have to take a 20% pay cut lol no wonder you bite at me on the money threads,the answer to becoming VATable is an issue for business it means you’ve got to put your prices up 20p in the £ not pay it for the customer 😂
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
This response sums you up your now VAT registered so you have to take a 20% pay cut lol no wonder you bite at me on the money threads,the answer to becoming VATable is an issue for business it means you’ve got to put your prices up 20p in the £ not pay it for the customer 😂
Have you been drinking ? where has anybody said about taking a pay cut ? if I'm charging £16 and up my prices to £20
the customer can either pay it or not.
Its then me who has to pay the vat and not the customer or in other words I'm earning more money but I'm no better off,
if the customer was paying the vat then we wouldn't be able to claim some of it back on expenses.
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i must be missing something. Surely if you go VAT registered and charge £20 for a house you would need to add 20% so making the total price £24, but you only get to keep the £20 for yourself (although you still pay income tax and NI)
Or as in your example a £15 house surely becomes £18 with VAT added.
Not everybody spends a lot on items which you can reclaim VAT on each year, and that involves even more paperwork. I claim a mileage allowance for my vehicle, as opposed to a percentage of fuel receipts and maintenance costs.
Yes, but you can still claim the VAT element of the fuel.
http://www.tmtaccounting.co.uk/blog/can-i-reclaim-vat-paying-45p-mileage-allowance
Yes the rate is 20%, but after you've deducted the input vat from the output vat, you're really only handing over to HMRC about 12%. So, if you wanted to keep everything exactly the same, you'd only need to increase your prices by that 12%.
So you work out the VAT on the fuel, the poles, the resin, the fairy liquid, cleaner planner, the workwear etc etc and it comes to about 8% of your turnover. Therefore, since you can claim that back, you only need to increase your price by 12% in order to be in the same position as you were before vat registration.
Similarly, you could simply go onto the 12% flat rate scheme, where you don't claim anything back, you just pay 12% of your turnover, and so (obviously) you only need to increase your prices by 12%.
If you are talking purely about money in and out, yes, you are correct.
But there's a bit more to it than that which might affect a sole trader disproportionately.
Getting home from work knackered. Must now calculate VAT as well as update records.
Must purchase special (duplicate or triplicate), numbered stationery at additional cost (currently, I just print my bills 2-up on A4 and guillotine them in half). Bills must be written out with addresses on (or possibly done the night before), Currently, I just fill in date and amount.
Submitting quarterly figure for VAT calculation.
Maybe I would deserve to charge the full 20% to compensate me for my additional time and pay for the stationery.
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Just print off aworka.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
This response sums you up your now VAT registered so you have to take a 20% pay cut lol no wonder you bite at me on the money threads,the answer to becoming VATable is an issue for business it means you’ve got to put your prices up 20p in the £ not pay it for the customer 😂
Have you been drinking ? where has anybody said about taking a pay cut ? if I'm charging £16 and up my prices to £20
the customer can either pay it or not.
Its then me who has to pay the vat and not the customer or in other words I'm earning more money but I'm no better off,
if the customer was paying the vat then we wouldn't be able to claim some of it back on expenses.
We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.
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Full story here..https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20171104/281513636421195
Well thats going to have a big impact on the way we operate :-\
Why out of interest? it just something that would be passed on cost wise to the customer, why would that have a big impact on how you operate ?
VAT isn't passed onto the customer it comes out of your pocket, example if a customer is happy to pay you £20 vat included
they would still be happy to pay £20 without vat.
In other words customers have no interest in how the money is divided up, taxes expenses and so on.
This response sums you up your now VAT registered so you have to take a 20% pay cut lol no wonder you bite at me on the money threads,the answer to becoming VATable is an issue for business it means you’ve got to put your prices up 20p in the £ not pay it for the customer 😂
Have you been drinking ? where has anybody said about taking a pay cut ? if I'm charging £16 and up my prices to £20
the customer can either pay it or not.
Its then me who has to pay the vat and not the customer or in other words I'm earning more money but I'm no better off,
if the customer was paying the vat then we wouldn't be able to claim some of it back on expenses.
We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.
If it were a customer tax then every customer would have to pay it regardless of how the business is doing, the fact that it only
applies to a business with a certain turnover means its a tax on business, all they're talking about now is lowering the threshold to £20k which means it will still be business tax, it can only be a customer tax when every customer pays it. vat on goods is a
customer tax because we all have to pay it, how the seller is doing makes no difference.
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The story gains momentum.
https://www.ft.com/content/5aa111ce-c633-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656
And a new, lower threshold of 10k is mentioned.
:o
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The story gains momentum.
https://www.ft.com/content/5aa111ce-c633-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656
And a new, lower threshold of 10k is mentioned.
:o
This smacks of petty revenge for not being allowed to increase N.I. contributions for the self-employed a while back.
If you don't want this, write to your MP. I've started drafting a letter to mine (and cc'ing it to Hammond) and will send it in a few days. Make it clear that you will not be voting for him/her or his/her party again (even if it's untrue).
It's hard to say but if increasing prices by 12% or 20% at a time when incomes are being squeezed and mortgage costs are beginning to nudge upwards, I estimate I would lose a quarter of my business. That could be enough to finish me off unless I can persuade the card companies to take a haircut.
I would probably just give up, though it's difficult to see a viable alternative.
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The story gains momentum.
https://www.ft.com/content/5aa111ce-c633-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656
And a new, lower threshold of 10k is mentioned.
:o
This smacks of petty revenge for not being allowed to increase N.I. contributions for the self-employed a while back.
If you don't want this, write to your MP. I've started drafting a letter to mine (and cc'ing it to Hammond) and will send it in a few days. Make it clear that you will not be voting for him/her or his/her party again (even if it's untrue).
It's hard to say but if increasing prices by 12% or 20% at a time when incomes are being squeezed and mortgage costs are beginning to nudge upwards, I estimate I would lose a quarter of my business. That could be enough to finish me off unless I can persuade the card companies to take a haircut.
I would probably just give up, though it's difficult to see a viable alternative.
I do want this. Sooner the better.
You won't lose anything like 25% of your customers.
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We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.
Don't be daft 8weekly it's a tax on business. Of course it is. The whole idea here is to drop the threshold because people are stalling at 84k.
1k more in a year = 17k tax bill
Tax on business.
If it's a customer tax then if a customer of mine sacks me and hires a cheaper non VAT registered cleaner, is that tax avoidance? Better get on the phone to Panorama.
Residential customers couldn't give a monkey's how your overheads are divvied up, all they know is the price. At the moment VAT registered companies are competing with non VAT registered companies for the same work. None of these customers are looking at the price and considering VAT.
If they level the playing field and everyone has to pay VAT, window cleaning becomes more expensive overnight. Everyone will put their prices up, including already VAT registered companies. Then it becomes the customer's tax.
Bring it on I say.
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If this goes through I predict the biggest winners will be already VAT registered companies and Karcher.
Biggest losers will be franchisees/ers and people who've 'seperated' their business to avoid VAT. It'll make little difference to anyone else.
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We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.
Don't be daft 8weekly it's a tax on business. Of course it is. The whole idea here is to drop the threshold because people are stalling at 84k.
1k more in a year = 17k tax bill
Tax on business.
If it's a customer tax then if a customer of mine sacks me and hires a cheaper non VAT registered cleaner, is that tax avoidance? Better get on the phone to Panorama.
Residential customers couldn't give a monkey's how your overheads are divvied up, all they know is the price. At the moment VAT registered companies are competing with non VAT registered companies for the same work. None of these customers are looking at the price and considering VAT.
If they level the playing field and everyone has to pay VAT, window cleaning becomes more expensive overnight. Everyone will put their prices up, including already VAT registered companies. Then it becomes the customer's tax.
Bring it on I say.
Er, that’s more or less what I said, it’s the customers tax but because there are so many non VAT window cleaners we’re forced to absorb it to compete. As you say, bring it on. It’ll be a 20% extravaganza! ;D
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
LOL.
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It would cripple me overnight with my current situation.
Only option would be to take more cash under the rug or push on for growth
Anyway it won't happen overnight, I'm sure it being discussed behind closed doors but it wont be out of the blue from 85k to 10k
If it does come in it will be staged in 80k, 75k etc
There's nothing in mainstream media or if you read any of the budget predictions it's not mentioned.
This is no more of a certainty than the Arctic weather we are supposed to get every year. Worry about it when it's all over the news....
That's not to say you shouldn't prepare for it, I aim to be at the vat threshold with employees in another year or 2 anyway so getting prepared.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
How many cash in hand windys are there out there? I'll bet hundreds still collect and only deal in cash, it won't make a blind difference to them.
It won't affect cash In hand types and it won't affect already vat registered busineses.
It will affect the millions of sole traders who operate legitimately up to 85k
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It wont happen Adam, with the changes in the living wage even low paying employers will be paying wages of £20k or more in a few years, even now its not hard to find a paye factory job at around the £25k mark, add holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, expenses, and your talking at least £35k shining windows to equal it, there would be no incentive left for any sensible shiner to pay an extra 20% in tax.
£42k a year to equal a £25k paye job, I don't think so.
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Maybe now's the time to be moving my wealth and business empire "offshore"? (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1510400231_undecided.gif)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1510400147_offshore tax haven.jpg)
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It wont happen Adam, with the changes in the living wage even low paying employers will be paying wages of £20k or more in a few years, even now its not hard to find a paye factory job at around the £25k mark, add holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, expenses, and your talking at least £35k shining windows to equal it, there would be no incentive left for any sensible shiner to pay an extra 20% in tax.
£42k a year to equal a £25k paye job, I don't think so.
I don’t understand Sean. There will be massive publicity about this. Customers won’t be surprised by it and will accept it. They won’t have any choice if they want their windows cleaned. Black economy workers may come and go but they will be the minority and shouldn’t be a threat. No other types of business absorb the vat, why should window cleaners?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5094799/Treasury-faces-backlash-small-business-VAT-rise.html
£43k sounds like a cop out to me. Hammond has proven fairly terrible so far. Totally spineless. I guess we'll find out on Wednesday.
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They'll be riots in the streets I reckon if he goes ahead with lowering the threshold on wednesday . I'll be OK if he lowers it to 43k.ill make sure I just stay under it but 25k?somebody will assassinate him! ;D
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I don't think it'll happen. He was on Andrew Marr this morning and there was no mention of it.
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At 43k some on here will have to register for VAT after the first week!!
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I don't think it'll happen. He was on Andrew Marr this morning and there was no mention of it.
He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.
Not if the government levels the playing field.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.
Not if the government levels the playing field.
It won’t. Other than a couple of articles it hasn’t much been mentioned.
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You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
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You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?
MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.
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I have no plans to expand my business beyond sole trader level. I may do it one day but I can't see it.
The reason(s) given for the possible lowering of the threshold bug me. They try to pretend that it's for our benefit by ensuring we expand our businesses. Taking my money is one thing. Taking me for an idiot is another. For me, the great irony in choosing £43k rather than £20k-ish is that it really would ensure that I don't expand my business beyond a certain point. Although I don't currently come close to £43k turnover, it would be within reach if I pushed myself a lot harder - something that I was planning to do over the next couple of years. However, I don't see the point of going beyond £42.9k now because for the sake of a few hundred or a thousand pounds, I would be leaving myself with a load of extra paperwork. In truth, £43k turnover might be pushing it a bit for me and my ageing body. It's a turnover of about £827 a week. Sure, I could manage that over a week or three, but doing it consistently over the year might be a bit much. I like that I have three hard weeks and three easy weeks in my schedule - it gives me recovery time.
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You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?
MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.
MP's sell their time and labour the same as we do, the vast majority of self employed tradesmen aren't vat registered, plus
if I worked local to yourself then I would already be charging what you are charging just as I match the vat guys where I work
now, therefore I would have to become 20% more expensive than you or take the hit.
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You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?
MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.
MP's sell their time and labour the same as we do, the vast majority of self employed tradesmen aren't vat registered, plus
if I worked local to yourself then I would already be charging what you are charging just as I match the vat guys where I work
now, therefore I would have to become 20% more expensive than you or take the hit.
The Vat guys won’t be adding the VAT. In most cases it’s absorbed to a large extent. If it happens I will be putting my prices up in most cases.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
And increasing NI is different how?
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Look fellas. Its a pain but if VAT the threshold does go down we are just going to lump it.
Remember you can claim back the VAT on your outgoings.
Also note there is nothing official with this lets just see what happens on Wednesday.
Its a stupid idea anyway there is no way hmrc has the resources to spend on collecting a paltry 2bn when vat already brings in something like 120bn anyway.
Calm down fellas lets see what happens
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
And increasing NI is different how?
NI fits that description too but they didn't back down over NI because of the admin involved.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.
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He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.
The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.
And increasing NI is different how?
NI fits that description too but they didn't back down over NI because of the admin involved.
The gov know well the burden it will place on small business, sub 40k it will make it pointless if you have any hope of getting a reasonable job. I don't need to tell you that, you know very well the expenses involved. I mean the admin for the public, not HMRC. They need a healthy and functioning small business sector which the will kill if they drop vat too low. Sure it may recover eventually but right now we don't need that upheaval. Ireland's vat threshold is about 37k and every established windy I know turns over about 45-50k but collects mostly cash and declares 36k ish. That's what will happen here too.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.
Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.
Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.
Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.
You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!
If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.
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Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.
You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!
If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.
Don't worry Og, these tax avoiders are just as morally bankrupt as Bono and Lewis Hamilton. :-X
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.
Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.
Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.
You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!
If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.
Very good, I'm sure you where glad of the threshold before you decided to register, and yes I compete with everybody from the
cash in hand types to the quantity over price already paying vat types.
As a self employed shiner please forgive me if I don't get too excited about the vat back on expenses.
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Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.
You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!
If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.
Don't worry Og, these tax avoiders are just as morally bankrupt as Bono and Lewis Hamilton. :-X
Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.
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It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.
Very good point !
It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.
Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.
If some of you lot had half a brain... ;D
Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.
And you are failing to see the smaller picture...I understand your viewpoint but it is only from your view
You have to be a real thickie to believe the nonsense you have just spouted.
This isn't about how it will effect larger vat registered businesses who are seeing "the bigger picture" it's going to directly effect smaller businesses under the vat reg In a very real way. I don't need to be Einstein to do the simple figures on how it would effect my income.
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Affect or effect?
You’re suggesting I should have an objective opinion?
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Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.
Some don't need to charge VAT for a service but others do, how is that fair?
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Affect or effect?
You’re suggesting I should have an objective opinion?
Oh ok, that old game...
for someone who knows the difference between effect and affect and what an objective opinion is it strikes me as quite odd that you chose to consider none of those before making your statement on Vat.
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Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.
Some don't need to charge VAT for a service but others do, how is that fair?
Nobody needs to charge VAT under the threshold just as nobody needs to pay 40% income tax until they go over the income tax threshold.
It fair because we all benefit from the thresholds until we don't.
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This wont affect us as we have been vat registered for 20 years, but i read some where if you register say tomorrow you can claim all the vat from your last 3 years account, this would be a nice windfall that would soften the blow
Martin
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Fairly large number (52) voted in the poll and more than half willing to power on through any threshold.
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Fairly large number (52) voted in the poll and more than half willing to power on through any threshold.
Absolutely I would too.
But it doesn't mean I wouldn't like to benefit from the current system until it's required.
no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
The problem I see is that a sole trader is just not in a position to deal with vat at such a low turnover. 40k turnover minus tax and N.i plus vat doesn't make for good figures I'm sure you can see that.
Anyway it won't happen in this budget so I think it's a non issue at the moment.
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no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.
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no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.
Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.
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no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.
Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.
No thanks.
If the answer to the vat issue everyone who wants to grow their business faces is to stop growing or scale back, then perhaps this story has more to it than you're letting on.
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no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.
Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.
No thanks.
If the answer to the vat issue everyone who wants to grow their business faces is to stop growing or scale back, then perhaps this story has more to it than you're letting on.
There you go, you made your choice to sit on cleanitup all day. You knew what that entailed so to whinge about a level playing field seems a tad self indulgent but your normally a switched on guy so this surprises me a bit.
You, with your increased turnover and obvious spare time can out advertise any sold trader in your area, your costs per van will be lover due to economies of scale so in ways you have the advantage. That sole trader then being subject to VAT at a very low level, say 25-30k will seriously dent his ability to compete with you, you can operate at a lower cost. The 6k hit on a 30k turnover will be a serious impediment to his growth. You got in there early, what were you allowed when you setup? 50/60K?
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no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?
Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.
I understand that from your position it must seem unfair... but im sure you had the benefit of a higher threshold and decided to push through it as your choice?. Would it not seem fair that others were afforded that opportunity to take the advantage of the higher limit as it stands to and then make their own choice like you did.?
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One thing I was unaware of was that the UK has a disproportionately high VAT threshold compared to everywhere else.
Blooming tax dodgers.
The VAT threshold for me was 50k. Year 1, maybe 2, perhaps 3, a long time ago and not a decision that we put consideration into, just something that needed to be done (as it is for more than half of you it seems).
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One thing I was unaware of was that the UK has a disproportionately high VAT threshold compared to everywhere else.
Blooming tax dodgers.
The VAT threshold for me was 50k. Year 1, maybe 2, perhaps 3, a long time ago and not a decision that we put consideration into, just something that needed to be done (as it is for more than half of you it seems).
As you know Soupy the CIU has a disproportionately high amount of bigshots or as Dal Boy would say achievers who have yet to
achieve anything, lol.
Lowering the VAT threshold to £40k isn't going to make a difference to the majority of sole traders and if they make £42k we all know where the other £2k will end up, lowering it to £20k will certainly drive a lot of guys out of the game and may drive more
work towards old hand rubbing Vultures such as yourself which is what you're hoping for, as with everything there will be winners and losers.
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as with everything there will be winners and losers.
That is the crux of it for me. If Hammond announced that the threshold was going to 10k tomorrow (he won't) the price of window cleaning would increase. Most (more than half) window cleaners that are not VAT registered would register and put their prices up, already registered companies would no longer be competing with (as many) non VAT registered companies and would also increase their prices.
Winners - already VAT registered companies (like me) and Karcher window vac
Losers - Customers and people at or near the current threshold.
Pie in the sky anyway because Hammond hasn't got the stones.
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Hammond is completely out of touch anyway.
If be suprised if hes still got his job by this time next year anyway. The guy is a fool as he demonstrated on tv a week back..
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as with everything there will be winners and losers.
That is the crux of it for me. If Hammond announced that the threshold was going to 10k tomorrow (he won't) the price of window cleaning would increase. Most (more than half) window cleaners that are not VAT registered would register and put their prices up, already registered companies would no longer be competing with (as many) non VAT registered companies and would also increase their prices.
Winners - already VAT registered companies (like me) and Karcher window vac
Losers - Customers and people at or near the current threshold.
Pie in the sky anyway because Hammond hasn't got the stones.
LOL, Undercutting has nothing to do with paying VAT, the prices in my area where ruined by a guy who pays vat, he makes his
money by doing a lot of work at a basic price, ( the EasyJet of window cleaning ) he just takes a smaller cut from each employee
of which he has many.
Its hard enough getting a decent return when competing with this guy at the minute without having to become 20% more expensive, you never know if he takes out all the sold traders maybe one day he or somebody like him will be knocking on your door.
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LOL, Undercutting has nothing to do with paying VAT, the prices in my area where ruined by a guy who pays vat, he makes his
money by doing a lot of work at a basic price, ( the EasyJet of window cleaning ) he just takes a smaller cut from each employee
of which he has many.
Its hard enough getting a decent return when competing with this guy at the minute without having to become 20% more expensive, you never know if he takes out all the sold traders maybe one day he or somebody like him will be knocking on your door.
I never said anything about undercutting. That is a totally separate issue.
The way I see it (and my experience is); if you charge VAT you need to find a middle ground between adding 20% to your pricing structure and competing with those that don't have to. If everyone has to, that middle ground is gone.
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I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.
Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward. Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.
I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.
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I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.
Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward. Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.
I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.
Adam that would only make a difference if your not going to pass the VAT on to your customers, but if your going to have to up your prices to cover the VAT its better to do it when its in the news and then at least your customers wont be blaming you for the price hike.
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I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.
Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward. Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.
I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.
Adam that would only make a difference if your not going to pass the VAT on to your customers, but if your going to have to up your prices to cover the VAT its better to do it when its in the news and then at least your customers wont be blaming you for the price hike.
It happening tomorrow aside (it won't) I still think the point is valid.
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Another thing for me is that if he drops it to 45k and I have to put customers up they'll know I earn over 45k. I don't really want them knowing that. Right now they think I scrape by and I like it that way.
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Another thing for me is that if he drops it to 45k and I have to put customers up they'll know I earn over 45k. I don't really want them knowing that. Right now they think I scrape by and I like it that way.
If they ask , then you could say you employ a couple of lads who do commercial work for you? ;)
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Another thing for me is that if he drops it to 45k and I have to put customers up they'll know I earn over 45k. I don't really want them knowing that. Right now they think I scrape by and I like it that way.
If they ask , then you could say you employ a couple of lads who do commercial work for you? ;)
Id tell em its none of their damn business. You work hard and you earn.
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Really don't see what all the fuss is. Lots of window cleaners are vat registered. We have been for 10 years. No problems. I think it's a good thing to have a totally even playing field for everyone. As with most things it's just the fear of the unknown that worries people.
Yes people will start having to run things more like a proper business. Lots you can do to balance the money back to you, go ltd and do away with n.i and pay less income tax with dividends. Only put your price up by 10%, swallow the other 10% but even that out with claim backs on kit, fuel ect.
Exactly lee it's not to be scared of , you charge the VAT to the customer. You will loose some in the short term but everyone will be in the same boat so customers will work out that there house is going to cost a few quid more .
It evens the playing field as those of us that are vat registered have been competing with those that are not for years. So this will be a good thing , the people who will really struggle are those drastically undercharging in the first place. As there customers will be more sensitive to the rise.
I think you will just have to take the time to explain it properly , the same as if you are switching the round from trad to wfp. You can't just do it , you tell them what's happening and why.
Remember if this does happen it will be all over the news and papers so many will be aware of it .
John
As for going collecting more cash, you can't rent or buy a house based on cash or a decent car or holiday. You can't have a decent life based on cash. More will get done by the tax man and vat avoidance is about the worst thing to be hit with.
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
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Ok Chaps.
Budget day...lets see what happens.
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Ok Chaps.
Budget day...lets see what happens.
Nowt.
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i dont reckon anything will happen in regards to VAT.if it was it would be all over the news by now.
we all pay enough VAT as it is.im still coming to terms with forking out nearly £750 in VAT just to have a diesel heater fitted in my van. ::)roll
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
It’s an option. Most guys on here probably wouldn’t worry too much if they lost some work.
Do the maths.
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
It’s an option. Most guys on here probably wouldn’t worry too much if they lost some work.
Do the maths.
Surely the maths says if you double the frequency you need twice the customers. No? Even 6 weekly to two monthly requires a third more customers. I never mentioned loosing work and one third to half isn't 'some'.
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No change!
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Well there you have it. No change for at least another 2 years
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Thanks guys.
Please revive this thread in 2 years for the next debate.
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Damn it. I registered at 12 o'clock to beat the rush ;D
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
It’s an option. Most guys on here probably wouldn’t worry too much if they lost some work.
Do the maths.
Surely the maths says if you double the frequency you need twice the customers. No? Even 6 weekly to two monthly requires a third more customers. I never mentioned loosing work and one third to half isn't 'some'.
Only if you want to fill the spare time, example 4 weekly at £20 could become 8 weekly at £30 which means for 6 cleans you
get £180 instead of 12 cleans for £240 therefore you have a shortfall £60 a year per customer to make up.
If you converted all your 300 customers to 8 weekly that would save you 1800 cleans a year but you would only need another 600 cleans a year ( 100 extra 8 weekly customers) to be exactly where you are now.
Same money for 1200 less cleans.
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Thanks guys.
Please revive this thread in 2 years for the next debate.
Please do not. This simply will never happen due to massive backlash if it did (amongst other reasons).
Complete waste of time thread IMO.
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As such changes normally occur on April 6th, I suppose it's safe to assume that no-one under £85k will be coerced into VAT registration before April 2019 at the very earliest (if ever).
However, it shows how the party of low taxation is starting to think - and presumably the other lot too should political upheaval see them elected. So, it's time for me to start trying to be one jump ahead in case such a change occurs. After January, time to start seeking two types of work (1) More commercial work where VAT isn't normally an issue (unless working for a small business who use simplified VAT). (2) Residential work where I feel able to charge 20%+ more than I would normally, so that I'm in a better position to absorb some of it if/when V-day arrives.
I consider myself on notice.
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
It’s an option. Most guys on here probably wouldn’t worry too much if they lost some work.
Do the maths.
Surely the maths says if you double the frequency you need twice the customers. No? Even 6 weekly to two monthly requires a third more customers. I never mentioned loosing work and one third to half isn't 'some'.
Heres an example, albeit hypothetical now we know there will be no chance of this happening.
Lets say you have a customer who you clean every 6 weeks and the charge is £30.00.
All of a sudden the chancellor decides we need to be charging 20% V.A.T. on the services we offer. The house in question would therefore attract an additional £6.00 to be charged. Making a total of £36.00.
Now if you increased the frequency from 6 weeks to 8 weeks and also made it clear the charge would have to be increased by £10.00 to cover the new tax your work is attracting and also you tell the customer because of the increased frequency. However, what is important is that you'd have to explain that the cost per week the customer is paying despite the tax and other charges would sell be the same.
£30.00 every 6 weeks is £5.00 per week.
£40.00 every 8 weeks is £5.00 per week.
Focus on that point when you tell your customer, focus on the benefit to them, and you get to cover the new V.A.T. rule and get a price increase of 12.5% thrown in to the bargain.
The principle remains the same regardless of your current frequency. You could do this now without worrying about the VAT but just tell them you're changing the frequency and up your price. Cleaning 8 weekly compared to 6 weekly makes very little difference. Negligible.
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Thanks guys.
Please revive this thread in 2 years for the next debate.
Please do not. This simply will never happen due to massive backlash if it did (amongst other reasons).
Complete waste of time thread IMO.
Waste of time thread? On clean it up?
How very dare you.
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You could use it to your advantage, by putting your prices up at the same time and going 8 weekly, indicating (as a sweetener) to the customer that they’re effectively getting more for their money, whilst you get more money for the same work. It’d only need a half decent worded note.
A nice note and 300 more customers unless you plan on sitting at home half the time.
It’s an option. Most guys on here probably wouldn’t worry too much if they lost some work.
Do the maths.
Surely the maths says if you double the frequency you need twice the customers. No? Even 6 weekly to two monthly requires a third more customers. I never mentioned loosing work and one third to half isn't 'some'.
Heres an example, albeit hypothetical now we know there will be no chance of this happening.
Lets say you have a customer who you clean every 6 weeks and the charge is £30.00.
All of a sudden the chancellor decides we need to be charging 20% V.A.T. on the services we offer. The house in question would therefore attract an additional £6.00 to be charged. Making a total of £36.00.
Now if you increased the frequency from 6 weeks to 8 weeks and also made it clear the charge would have to be increased by £10.00 to cover the new tax your work is attracting and also you tell the customer because of the increased frequency. However, what is important is that you'd have to explain that the cost per week the customer is paying despite the tax and other charges would sell be the same.
£30.00 every 6 weeks is £5.00 per week.
£40.00 every 8 weeks is £5.00 per week.
Focus on that point when you tell your customer, focus on the benefit to them, and you get to cover the new V.A.T. rule and get a price increase of 12.5% thrown in to the bargain.
The principle remains the same regardless of your current frequency. You could do this now without worrying about the VAT but just tell them you're changing the frequency and up your price. Cleaning 8 weekly compared to 6 weekly makes very little difference. Negligible.
Whilst I agree on the whole, I’m not sure selling as what is basically “you’ll get less cleans a year for the same money” is the best way about it...
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You wouldn't word it like that.
Anyway, its just a suggested strategy some might like to consider if the scenario were to materialise, it has some mileage but for some its not even going to be considered. Whatever floats your boat ;)
I'd sell it more along the lines of 'The V.A.T. increase is an unfortunate but inescapable tax, you're going to be charged it, however, we can work something out that will help to mitigate it' Something like that anyway.
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Let's put this to bed. It's over now for the time being.
Plus whatever gets decided we have NO control over, so lets just get with the current program.
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Please do not. This simply will never happen due to massive backlash if it did (amongst other reasons).
Complete waste of time thread IMO.
A poll with 60+ votes and 10 pages of posts from lots of different members is not a waste of time thread IMO.
Anyway Hammond obviously has a lack of bone content within his spine.