Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve10 on October 13, 2017, 08:55:46 am
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Trying to work out who's fault this is. On Tuesday 2 workers where doing a job and it turns out they left the 50ft pole behind. We have gone back and it's not there. They where both using it taking it in turns. It is stored in one van as it's the only van it fits into. The man that last touched it is saying it's not his fault as it isn't stored in his van . The other man is saying that it's both there fault as he should have noticed it wasn't in the van but the other man should of put it back . What do you guys think?
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the joys of employing eh?
id dock both their wages for that days work
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the joys of employing eh?
id dock both their wages for that days work
That’s illegal. You can’t do that. Would be different perhaps if they were subbies but not on the cards. The benefits of employing are the profits are all the businesses, but so are all associated costs.
You’d be sued if that happened IMO.
The original question, 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Implement better security practises from now on. If it keeps happening someone gets sacked.
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Not really a lot you can do , its life it happens , maybe it was robbed after being used and they didnt see !
If they are good workers why dock them to pay for it , you could end up with no blokes to use what poles you have left .
I used to chuck the pole on the roof in between jobs , I got to the next job and it wasnt there , it didnt fall off that i do know , it could have only been pinched whilst i collected £3.50 from the old dear i had just cleaned , Gone in 60 seconds , i should have made a film about it ;D
But i sure was not sacking the bloke whos fault it was ;D ;D ;D
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What pole was it ?
You never know , it may well pitch up for sale cheap , some thiefs dont have a clue , and it may stop a member buying it !
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It was a streamline pole.
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In the past when things went missing we usually split the cost to replace. The lad saying it's both there faults is willing to help with the cost of a new one but the other lad is saying he won't as it's not his fault at all.
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It was a streamline pole.
ah well every cloud has a silver lining! ;D
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It was a streamline pole.
I shouldnt say it , but they might have done you a favour there ;)
I take it that was an XR/RX then , never get it the right way round .
Look on the bright side though mate , a gardiner equivalent will be cheaper by a long way .
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It was a streamline pole.
ah well every cloud has a silver lining! ;D
You beat me Daz ::)roll
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It was a streamline pole.
ah well every cloud has a silver lining! ;D
Give them both a bonus for pointing out the error of your ways.
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Ok but who would you say is at fault
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Ok but who would you say is at fault
Why does anyone need to be at fault?
It was both their error.
Just need to take it on the chin, and put in a rule of work that you need to do a check that all equipment is accounted for before you leave the site.
Laminate a card and glue it to the inside rear doors “all equipment returned?”.
I’ve left equipment behind myself before. It’s easy done.
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It was a streamline pole.
ah well every cloud has a silver lining! ;D
Give them both a bonus for pointing out the error of your ways.
If this was my situation i would judge it similar to my kids, its that easy and these are grown men!
My kids know to tidy their toys up when they are finished and especially by bed time. Any toys left out get converskated for a day.
So your work men should know to put tools away.....regardless which van he was able to get it out of in the first place! Therefore the grown up who used it last would hold responsibility in my mind.
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In the past when things went missing we usually split the cost to replace. The lad saying it's both there faults is willing to help with the cost of a new one but the other lad is saying he won't as it's not his fault at all.
If you asked me to split the cost of equipment I would ask you to split the profits, unfortunately people make mistakes and as the
employer who benefits from employing its your problem to cover those mistakes, obviously if you have an employee who constantly makes mistakes then firm action needs to be taken.
Now stop being a tight wad, tell them both off for being careless with the equipment, let the police know of the situation encase
somebody has reported finding it or seen who took it and so on, replace the pole and get on with your day.
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You can't doc wages unless there is a clause in their contract for responsibility. All you can do is to take disaplianary action against them. If they are on a first or final warning it will motivate them to take extra care in the future.
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No I agree I'm not taking money off them for this but who should I give a warning to for being careless with equipment.
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Both. Sit down and investigate them both indivually. If one admits he was last to use it then there you go. He should have made sure he put back and should not have just dumped it on the floor with the expectation that some one else will tidy his mess up.
The other one has to admit he is responsible for the kit on the van. Yes to make sure every thing is packed away and saftey stored for transit.
Just hand them both with a written warning. They both are responsible for the equipment if they are both using it.
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This one seems pretty obvious to me.
Tell them both they need to decide who is responsible for the missing pole.
If they can t decide then they are both responsible
In which case issue a formal warning to them both. Verbal or written up to you but witnessed and documented.
Thats it, replace the pole yourself and move on, mistakes happen, if they keep happening then it will lead to further disciplinary action.
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No I agree I'm not taking money off them for this but who should I give a warning to for being careless with equipment.
At the end of the day its the guy who carries it in his van who is responsible for it, would it be fair to give him a warning if he wasn't the last to use it, I don't know.
As has been said I think your only option is to give them both a warning.
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No I agree I'm not taking money off them for this but who should I give a warning to for being careless with equipment.
At the end of the day its the guy who carries it in his van who is responsible for it, would it be fair to give him a warning if he wasn't the last to use it, I don't know.
As has been said I think your only option is to give them both a warning.
Give both a written warning as it sets the president for any future mishaps, also implement a vehicle check sheet to cover yourself.
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It was an accident I wouldn’t worry about the warnings if stuff like this hasn’t happened before they will be careful in future if they are decent people
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Give them both a bollocking but not make it official and tell them that from now on the last person to use it is responsible to put it away and it will be the responsibility of the driver to ensure everything is on board. If anything is lost in the future the team of two may be held jointly responsible financially. Put it in writing.
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Let the man who doesn't sin throw the first stone!
In the past 12 years we have left some of our equipment behind unintentionally quite a number of times.
The first was a squeege , but as the guy cancelled us immediately we had finished the clean we believe he stole it. It was written all over his face everytime we saw him after that.
The second was another squeege and was my fault. We had a couple and it just disappeared without us realising it. I never worked out where I left it. When we did the round the next time, a customer had found it and gave it back to us.
I left a carbon fibre pole on the verge of the pavement once. We drove off to find some lunch. Next clean we saw it was missing - shot back and it was still there where we left it.
I left an Unger teleplus pole behind doing a house for an old dear. The lady next door rescued it and gave it back to us when we were doing a search for it. She later got us to clean her windows which we are still doing 10 years later.
I left my CLX22 pole behind in a customers garden. He put it in his garage and we got it a couple of hours later.
Left my ali pole with a hook on it at a back gate whilst I cleaned the backs of a terrace house. Pole was gone when I came the shut the gate after rolling the hose back in. I was never more that 4 steps away from it.
If its a regular occurrence then action must be taken, but we certainly can't cast that first stone.
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Accidents happen (especially if you are pushing them hard!)
Is the pole insured? Are the guys good?
Let them know that you have to cover that cost (and the inconvenience to you...and them)
Put systems in place to try and minimise future losses.
Forget and move on...
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Let them work with an old fashioned omnipole, they'll respect any decent pole after using one of them. If you left an omnipole lying around, chances are it would be where it was last left the next time around :)
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This one seems pretty obvious to me.
Tell them both they need to decide who is responsible for the missing pole.
If they can t decide then they are both responsible
In which case issue a formal warning to them both. Verbal or written up to you but witnessed and documented.
Thats it, replace the pole yourself and move on, mistakes happen, if they keep happening then it will lead to further disciplinary action.
I bet that is going to lead to a good working relationship between the employees going forward. ;D
As has been said, just give both a verbal warning and put rules in place so it’s obvious whose accountable in future.
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If the last lad to touch/use it is saying it's nothing to do with him coz it's not out of his van I would just suspend him til I have decided what further action to take.
The lad who's van it goes in is accepting that he's partly to blame as it should go in his van and honesty is the best form when employing .......
I would sack the first lad and give the second a warning then ring me an buy the 40ft streamline pole that's sitting on the floor behind the shed and put it down to a bad day.
Would be a disaster had it been a gardiner
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I would be offering employees a bonus paid on a monthly basis, terms would include, no complaints, no damage to van, loss of equipment etc
As a mechanic by trade, we were to supply our own tools, maybe this is an option for window cleaning?
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if your going to give them any warrnings at all and are unsure where you stand then you need to speak to some one that does
spending 200 pounds now may just save you 15k down the road when they take you to court for not following the law
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I would be offering employees a bonus paid on a monthly basis, terms would include, no complaints, no damage to van, loss of equipment etc
As a mechanic by trade, we were to supply our own tools, maybe this is an option for window cleaning?
I would think that spanner’s , screwdrivers etc last a lot longer than a daily used pole. Which wouldn’t be fair on the worker if they have to keep shelling out for new poles & brushes. but saying that , they still need some disciplinary action
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I would be offering employees a bonus paid on a monthly basis, terms would include, no complaints, no damage to van, loss of equipment etc
As a mechanic by trade, we were to supply our own tools, maybe this is an option for window cleaning?
Bonuses don't work for instance in the above who loses their bonus ? Iv worked in places where the company has tried to introduce them and all you got was fighting and bickering over who's fault it was that quotas weren't reached and so on.
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i think in reality all you can do is give them both a good talking too and let them know you're angry and what it has cost you. Only you know in general how good they normally are in working for you and is it worth causing tension between them by blaming one or the other.
To a certain degree you have yourself to blame as well for not having a procedure in place when packing up for the day check list, letting it be known who is responsible for what etc.
Its just one of those things you learn by although an expensive lesson for you its probably one that will never happen again.
In my previous injection molding life my old manager was very good at making you feel guilty/bad for any mistakes made, he never really shouted etc or fired off warnings (but you knew he was fuming mad) just had this knack of making sure in yourself you didn't screw up again and he never held a grudge once it was dealt with it was forgotten about.
It kind of always made you want to do your best for him and you knew where you stood in that he was a decent guy but he was the boss and most people working there respected that .
Going by his post though never employ Spruce ;D
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a 50ft streamline pole cant be much money to replace.its not as if its an xtreme 47.
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Daz , i havnt looked at varitechs site lately , but i can bet you a £1 to a pinch of poop that gardiner will blow them out of the water for an equivilent ;D
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You can go about it in two ways to avoid issues in the future :
1. Change of contract with 30 days notice to introduce new company terms ie negligence, loss, vehicle policies with wage deduction clauses
2. If you have employee hand book you can introduce new policies without a change to contracts. This would require you to provide details of new procedures to your employees in writing and them signing off receipts for those which you will need to keep. All subject to wage deduction clause in contract.
All valuable equipment should be signed out by
a person who takes responsibility for safe return of it.
If two of them are using it both should sign. This way they will not be able to blame one another.
This time your loss as annoying as it is can't be recovered from employees as previously mentioned.
Bonus schemes can work really well if they are properly designed, explained to employees and show fairness.
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I would be offering employees a bonus paid on a monthly basis, terms would include, no complaints, no damage to van, loss of equipment etc
As a mechanic by trade, we were to supply our own tools, maybe this is an option for window cleaning?
Bonuses don't work for instance in the above who loses their bonus ? Iv worked in places where the company has tried to introduce them and all you got was fighting and bickering over who's fault it was that quotas weren't reached and so on.
We operate with 1 man per van, so there is no passing the buck,
I used to work for a commercial window cleaning company, Like you say its hard to confirm who is to blame with 2 operators per van
Ive gone down the franchise route, so don't have those worries ;)
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No wonder Steve is peaved , :o :o :o :o :o
Just looked at Varitech , they do 3 poles that fit the bill , one 80% carbon and two 100% carbon , with the vat they range from .........
£1000 - £1500
Gardiner comes in at £680 vat added for an SLX , well you know the prices !
Get yerself to Gardiners next time Steve !
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The worst thing I've ever lost while at work was a baton gun in Northern Ireland. Inside the wire, not outside.
I had a humongous fine for that, even though it turned up pretty much straight away.
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Give them both a bollocking but not make it official and tell them that from now on the last person to use it is responsible to put it away and it will be the responsibility of the driver to ensure everything is on board. If anything is lost in the future the team of two may be held jointly responsible financially. Put it in writing.
I agree with that but "the last person to use it" is a bit wooly, make someone responsible for ensuring the kit isn't left behind in future.