Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nathankaye on October 10, 2017, 09:36:33 am
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So got a phone call as driving to scotland and said i would tackle it when back. Ive been to see the customer this morning and wish i hadnt.
Basically this chap has full width of downstairs with patio windows. On the door there is quite a few scratches in clusters, so not just one scratch. They claim they didnt see it till 2 days later when sun was out, tho it was a week later when they first called me.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1507623955_Screenshot_2017-10-10-09-25-17.png)
The pane in question is the 2nd one from the left (theres also 2 more panes of glass b4 that).
This is my brush
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1507624054_Screenshot_2017-10-10-09-25-21.png)
They think its the plastic or i got several pieces of grit in the brush at the time.
Now these windows are part of an extension with sloping roof and sky light windows. I explained that what they are thinking cant possible happen. For 1,i clean the upstairs windows first, followed by the skylights and then the patio from the far right to the left. So either all the windows are scratched or for some silly reason i dropped my brush in some grit, scrubbed about in it and then cleaned just that one window with it. It doesnt make sense!!
2nd, look at the brush and the gaps in between the bristles! I would have to be really clumsy to get alot of grit and big ish pieces stuck in there, surely??!!
3rd n final point, they have slate tiles as a patio so no grit or enough grit is there for me to drop the brush into to pick it up.
Yet hes going to get a glasd fitting company out to sort out but to investigate how its happened. So im gonna contact my insurance company to see where i stand from here.
But has anybody else come across this or this behaviour and what was the outcome?
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They could have hit it off the chairs or the table cover could have came into contact with it months before and they have only noticed marks as the sun is lower in the sky.
(I would emphasise that the sun is lower in the sky now and they could have been there for some time) number of causes that could have happened like the table cover being caught by the wind.
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In my opinion it's was probably one off the workers that scratched it that was on the building job , they probably have never noticed it before now ,and also I can't see any scratches the photo has been taken to far away from the glass
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Are they a new customer , maybe cement got on the glass during patio building and got wiped off with a cloth this would scratch in clusters
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I tried taking a photo of the scratches but due to it being glass and reflective of the background, it was a no go!
These points are all valid, as he laid the slabs himself and is doing most of the work himself.
I have been cleaning their windows for about half a year and the first clean i removed concrete splatter. I ran my hot water on it which really softened it and then used my finger nail to remove. If this caused scratches they would be very small and consistant with scratching or scraping (back n forth motion). But i dont want to mention this aspect as it gives them another excuse to try look into
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They're trying it on Nathan. Even if you had just two jets I believe there is enough water flow down the glass that you would have to be some sort of complete animal to scratch the glass.
I have no problem admitting to my mistakes but there is no way I would admit to something I knew I hadn't done.
Even if you do admit liability, I wouldn't go through the insurance either, even if you are covered for glass. It'll go on your record and by the time you take excess into account you'd be better settling cash if it's just one pane.
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I tried taking a photo of the scratches but due to it being glass and reflective of the background, it was a no go!
These points are all valid, as he laid the slabs himself and is doing most of the work himself.
I have been cleaning their windows for about half a year and the first clean i removed concrete splatter. I ran my hot water on it which really softened it and then used my finger nail to remove. If this caused scratches they would be very small and consistant with scratching or scraping (back n forth motion). But i dont want to mention this aspect as it gives them another excuse to try look into
Cement on the glass usually = glass damaged.
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I had this myself and the customer basically admitted that he wanted to use my insurance and not pay himself, we are an easy option once the builders have left.
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I've been to a regular job this morning that I've been cleaning for years.
The fella is a builder and he's building his own extension.
The cement mixer was 2ft away from his conservatory glass with cement splatter on the window.
Some people are just very careless, plain and simple.
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It amazes me how many wfp users I have seen out and about leave the bristles laying on the wall surface when they leave it up against a building.
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It amazes me how many wfp users I have seen out and about leave the bristles laying on the wall surface when they leave it up against a building.
Yep, agree with you and its not a smart thing to do. But if ones do so, if they give the bristles a quick rub any grit or dirt on the end would come loose!
But No, i dont do this practice myself but i do regularly brush my hand along the bristles to clean the brush of spider webs n pick it out from in between the bristles.
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If I see cement on a window I tell the customer that the window is probably damaged. I will remove it for them but I can't guarantee that it's not damaged.
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They're trying it on Nathan. Even if you had just two jets I believe there is enough water flow down the glass that you would have to be some sort of complete animal to scratch the glass.
I have no problem admitting to my mistakes but there is no way I would admit to something I knew I hadn't done.
Even if you do admit liability, I wouldn't go through the insurance either, even if you are covered for glass. It'll go on your record and by the time you take excess into account you'd be better settling cash if it's just one pane.
Same, once when i was working traditionally I stood on a flat roof and my foot went right through! They soon got a roofer out whilstbi was there and thankfully he confirmed what i had told them. That the wooden boards under the felt were rotten and it wasnt my fault! However, i lived 5 mins away and went home picked up some equipment and did a temporary patch work till they got it sorted. As a goodwill gesture on my part regardless how they behaved.
So if i thought it was genuinely my fault i would sort it out, but i cant see how it can be
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jewlers rouge will take the small ones out , could it of been something like a fox ?
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Who? what?
im not your window cleaner, i think your mistaken
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Give him the brush with good flow of water, and see if he can replicate it.
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If its your brush then the other windows would also have the same scratches.
In fact, all your customers would also have scratched windows.
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jewlers rouge will take the small ones out , could it of been something like a fox ?
With grit in it's brush?
Boom boom!
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I switched off when 'while driving to scotland' or whatever it was.
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I switched off when 'while driving to scotland' or whatever it was.
By all means Bungle, start an interesting thread yourselve as its sorely needed
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I switched off when 'while driving to scotland' or whatever it was.
By all means Bungle, start an interesting thread yourselve as its sorely needed
How about "Wibble Wibble Wibble"
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Same, once when i was working traditionally I stood on a flat roof and my foot went right through! They soon got a roofer out whilstbi was there and thankfully he confirmed what i had told them. That the wooden boards under the felt were rotten and it wasnt my fault! However, i lived 5 mins away and went home picked up some equipment and did a temporary patch work till they got it sorted. As a goodwill gesture on my part regardless how they behaved.
So if i thought it was genuinely my fault i would sort it out, but i cant see how it can be
You and the customer have absolutely no evidence what so ever that it was your fault. That's all there is to it. It is all guess work by the customer based on what they think.
All the few complaints I've ever had about scratches on glass have been during Oct and Nov which makes me think it has to do with the angle of the sun as mentioned in a previous thread.
My advice is to walk away after admitting nothing. Forget whether they are a good customer and all of that and forget whether you have some type of moral responsibility, no one can ever know what or who caused the scratches including you.
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Same, once when i was working traditionally I stood on a flat roof and my foot went right through! They soon got a roofer out whilstbi was there and thankfully he confirmed what i had told them. That the wooden boards under the felt were rotten and it wasnt my fault! However, i lived 5 mins away and went home picked up some equipment and did a temporary patch work till they got it sorted. As a goodwill gesture on my part regardless how they behaved.
So if i thought it was genuinely my fault i would sort it out, but i cant see how it can be
You and the customer have absolutely no evidence what so ever that it was your fault. That's all there is to it. It is all guess work by the customer based on what they think.
All the few complaints I've ever had about scratches on glass have been during Oct and Nov which makes me think it has to do with the angle of the sun as mentioned in a previous thread.
My advice is to walk away after admitting nothing. Forget whether they are a good customer and all of that and forget whether you have some type of moral responsibility, no one can ever know what or who caused the scratches including you.
take this advice nathan.
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Same, once when i was working traditionally I stood on a flat roof and my foot went right through! They soon got a roofer out whilstbi was there and thankfully he confirmed what i had told them. That the wooden boards under the felt were rotten and it wasnt my fault! However, i lived 5 mins away and went home picked up some equipment and did a temporary patch work till they got it sorted. As a goodwill gesture on my part regardless how they behaved.
So if i thought it was genuinely my fault i would sort it out, but i cant see how it can be
You and the customer have absolutely no evidence what so ever that it was your fault. That's all there is to it. It is all guess work by the customer based on what they think.
All the few complaints I've ever had about scratches on glass have been during Oct and Nov which makes me think it has to do with the angle of the sun as mentioned in a previous thread.
My advice is to walk away after admitting nothing. Forget whether they are a good customer and all of that and forget whether you have some type of moral responsibility, no one can ever know what or who caused the scratches including you.
take this advice nathan.
I have! My insurance company has all the details n pictures incase they persue it and thats where im leaving it. It has been on my mind as i dont like to be accused of something i know isnt me nor do i like the fact that people think that of me. So i was toying with some kind of compromise.......but I kept coming with the thought that they will only be happy of i take full responsibility of it!! Therefore i was coming to the conclusion of just walking away and then with the above advice it helped seal the deal in my head!
Cheers guys
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1507712793_32949A20-CCC9-4941-BA89-6B6355D8654C.jpeg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1507712793_AAA70895-D247-404E-885D-0DCDBA9F474A.jpeg)
Had this also. First time for me in about 15 years. I’ll be back round this week so will see.
The thing is I know he already has scratches in his glass that have been there since I started. I’ve noticed some on the main door glass panel where it’s clear someone has used a metal blade to remove something. Loads of little scratches all in one patch, not a long sweeping motion like you’d see IF a brush could even scratch. Which I’m convinced it can’t. Bristles on the glass with water flowing will never trap grit and drag it across the glass.
Time will tell.
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
How would hot dissolve grit ? (roll eyes) at the end of the day even if you had a piece of grit stuck in the bristles and it did scrape
the glass then the scrapes would be consistent with the movement of the brush, as you brush up and down the glass then they
would follow a similar pattern, if this isn't the case then its nothing to do with you end of.
Just to be clear you are 100% to blame for putting your foot through your customers roof rotten or not, its your job to check
if the roof is safe enough to walk on.
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
How would hot dissolve grit ? (roll eyes) at the end of the day even if you had a piece of grit stuck in the bristles and it did scrape
the glass then the scrapes would be consistent with the movement of the brush, as you brush up and down the glass then they
would follow a similar pattern, if this isn't the case then its nothing to do with you end of.
Just to be clear you are 100% to blame for putting your foot through your customers roof rotten or not, its your job to check
if the roof is safe enough to walk on.
2 points, i didnt say disolve grit but dirt! and that i have soft bristles so the bristles arent to blame, no dirt in bristles and flowing water to rinse the dirt out.
2nd the roof, sorry buddy i aint no roofer and unless i have my damp detection device with me there is no way of knowing what lays beneath the felt. There wasnt any puddles nor dips in the roof and by all accounts visibly safe to walk on. Which the most part it was, until i went across to the next window and foot went it. But from the piece that came off and the remaining boards which were visible it was clear to see how bad the roof was
On top of that a qualified roofer also supported this, hence no charges or bills put to me!
But as far as the scratched glass is concerned, im not concerned anymore....simple as.
But cheers for everyones advice
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
How would hot dissolve grit ? (roll eyes) at the end of the day even if you had a piece of grit stuck in the bristles and it did scrape
the glass then the scrapes would be consistent with the movement of the brush, as you brush up and down the glass then they
would follow a similar pattern, if this isn't the case then its nothing to do with you end of.
Just to be clear you are 100% to blame for putting your foot through your customers roof rotten or not, its your job to check
if the roof is safe enough to walk on.
2 points, i didnt say disolve grit but dirt! and that i have soft bristles so the bristles arent to blame, no dirt in bristles and flowing water to rinse the dirt out.
2nd the roof, sorry buddy i aint no roofer and unless i have my damp detection device with me there is no way of knowing what lays beneath the felt. There wasnt any puddles nor dips in the roof and by all accounts visibly safe to walk on. Which the most part it was, until i went across to the next window and foot went it. But from the piece that came off and the remaining boards which were visible it was clear to see how bad the roof was
On top of that a qualified roofer also supported this, hence no charges or bills put to me!
But as far as the scratched glass is concerned, im not concerned anymore....simple as.
But cheers for everyones advice
Me neither. The exact reason you won't catch me on a roof.
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
How would hot dissolve grit ? (roll eyes) at the end of the day even if you had a piece of grit stuck in the bristles and it did scrape
the glass then the scrapes would be consistent with the movement of the brush, as you brush up and down the glass then they
would follow a similar pattern, if this isn't the case then its nothing to do with you end of.
Just to be clear you are 100% to blame for putting your foot through your customers roof rotten or not, its your job to check
if the roof is safe enough to walk on.
2 points, i didnt say disolve grit but dirt! and that i have soft bristles so the bristles arent to blame, no dirt in bristles and flowing water to rinse the dirt out.
2nd the roof, sorry buddy i aint no roofer and unless i have my damp detection device with me there is no way of knowing what lays beneath the felt. There wasnt any puddles nor dips in the roof and by all accounts visibly safe to walk on. Which the most part it was, until i went across to the next window and foot went it. But from the piece that came off and the remaining boards which were visible it was clear to see how bad the roof was
On top of that a qualified roofer also supported this, hence no charges or bills put to me!
But as far as the scratched glass is concerned, im not concerned anymore....simple as.
But cheers for everyones advice
2 points,
1. Dirt doesn't scrape glass it takes something like grit so harping on about hot just makes you look like a fool.
2. Its not hard take a look at the underside of a roof from inside a garage and judge if it safe enough to stand on, if this simple task is beyond you then as Soupy said avoid roofs.
I fell off a tiled garage roof a while back because the tiles where too greasy, it was my own stupid fault and I didn't blame the customer for the fact that their tiles where greasy.
If your going to get onto a roof then its your responsibility to make sure that roof is safe to be on, put it this way if you had fallen through the roof and injured yourself or somebody in the garage you would have been liable rotten roof or not.
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Plus im using hot where its between 60 -65 degrees c at the brush end so the bristles are really soft. Any dirt thats trapped would easily disolve and then like you mentioned there is a constant flow of water.
How would hot dissolve grit ? (roll eyes) at the end of the day even if you had a piece of grit stuck in the bristles and it did scrape
the glass then the scrapes would be consistent with the movement of the brush, as you brush up and down the glass then they
would follow a similar pattern, if this isn't the case then its nothing to do with you end of.
Just to be clear you are 100% to blame for putting your foot through your customers roof rotten or not, its your job to check
if the roof is safe enough to walk on.
2 points, i didnt say disolve grit but dirt! and that i have soft bristles so the bristles arent to blame, no dirt in bristles and flowing water to rinse the dirt out.
2nd the roof, sorry buddy i aint no roofer and unless i have my damp detection device with me there is no way of knowing what lays beneath the felt. There wasnt any puddles nor dips in the roof and by all accounts visibly safe to walk on. Which the most part it was, until i went across to the next window and foot went it. But from the piece that came off and the remaining boards which were visible it was clear to see how bad the roof was
On top of that a qualified roofer also supported this, hence no charges or bills put to me!
But as far as the scratched glass is concerned, im not concerned anymore....simple as.
But cheers for everyones advice
2 points,
1. Dirt doesn't scrape glass it takes something like grit so harping on about hot just makes you look like a fool.
2. Its not hard take a look at the underside of a roof from inside a garage and judge if it safe enough to stand on, if this simple task is beyond you then as Soupy said avoid roofs.
I fell off a tiled garage roof a while back because the tiles where too greasy, it was my own stupid fault and I didn't blame the customer for the fact that their tiles where greasy.
If your going to get onto a roof then its your responsibility to make sure that roof is safe to be on, put it this way if you had fallen through the roof and injured yourself or somebody in the garage you would have been liable rotten roof or not.
Erm.......dont think so
But do agree with the non wise attempt to scale a roof with slippery tiles for the sake of a couple of quid for that window. I too wouldnt blame the owner on that one.
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I agree it's not your responsibility to fix a rotten roof but if you hurt yourself or anybody else you'd have been responsible for that. Unless of course you'd done a risk assessment and concluded that walking on a rotten roof was the safest practicable option...
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I agree it's not your responsibility to fix a rotten roof but if you hurt yourself or anybody else you'd have been responsible for that. Unless of course you'd done a risk assessment and concluded that walking on a rotten roof was the safest practicable option...
Even then he would still be liable as the safest option would be not to attempt the job unless it could be done without walking on the roof.
He would also be responsible for making the roof watertight if it had been before his mishap rotten or not.
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Even then he would still be liable as the safest option would be not to attempt the job unless it could be done without walking on the roof.
Obvs
He would also be responsible for making the roof watertight if it had been before his mishap rotten or not.
Hmmm, not sure you can claim that, if the roof is already goosed it's already goosed.
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I have seen this about 4 times in 12 years. I NEVER accept responsibility. To think the soft brushes we use could cause such damage is utter drivel!
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If we are required to walk on a roof with unknown integrity, we put boards down. Bit of a hassle but better than putting your foot in it.