Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on August 19, 2017, 10:15:48 pm
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Well i put the wheels in motion after a bit of research , ordered all the bits , got scammed along the way (so i thought ) , but its all in now , excuse the vid , not my strong point public speaking !
Well this is what i have and its looking really promising , i will do some more in depth vids on what i got , where , and why i got it soon .
This is just a taster taken at 6 today to give you an idea of what to expect , the results of yield are not great but over the day they are quite amazing with regard to what you can pump into the battery !
Any Q's , just ask away 8) , check me out in my sunnies ;D
Rich
https://youtu.be/3gXXYYOjLzY
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Well i put the wheels in motion after a bit of research , ordered all the bits , got scammed along the way (so i thought ) , but its all in now , excuse the vid , not my strong point public speaking !
Well this is what i have and its looking really promising , i will do some more in depth vids on what i got , where , and why i got it soon .
This is just a taster taken at 6 today to give you an idea of what to expect , the results of yield are not great but over the day they are quite amazing with regard to what you can pump into the battery !
Any Q's , just ask away 8) , check me out in my sunnies ;D
Rich
https://youtu.be/3gXXYYOjLzY
Hi Rich,
Was looking forward to your solar panel addition. Very nice video.
Firstly, good on you for getting a genuine MPPT controller. And those volt and amp gauges are ideal to see what the panel is doing. The most important detail is the amps.
If your battery is pretty much charged then the output into the battery will be reduced even when the sun is out.
My only 'concern' is to ensure that the brackets give adequate support to the panel as you don't want it breaking in the middle from road vibration.
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Can I ask what is the need for the controller and all the extra bits.
Why can I not get a solar panel and connect it to my battery and job done?
Maybe stick a 2 quid voltmeter on the battery and disconnect it if it's full?
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Nice video thanks for posting.
My understanding The solar controller regulates the voltage input to the battery and also when the battery is full is going into maintence mode which in turns stops the battery being overcharged.
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Just out of curiosity why did you install it on the roof rack and not the roof, as that now restricts your roof bars just in case you want to use the full width for anything else.
Think I will go Down the solarroute when I get another van.
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Very nice set up, i like how you run the wires down through the doors, saves putting holes in the roof like i have.
Ive been thinking about redoing my solar panel which is on the roof and attaching it to the roof rack to get the angle but also toying with idea of putting some pives on it like the chap on the boat so it can be slightly angled towards the sun.
Like the volt n amp meter would like a link for that please
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Do you mind me asking how much that costs (ish) all in, and to those that already use a solar panel, what sort of ampage to you expect to put back into the battery on an average week?
Interested in this as it could be a more cost efficient way of charging batteries on newer vehicles, especially as the battery to battery chargers are expensive (compared to the standard scr's) but it all comes down to average rate of charge...
Nice vid btw
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Thanks for the interest guys , thought i would test the water with a vid to see if any interest , now i know people are interested i will do more of better quality !
I will answer the Q's as they come , im no expert in solar ,but i feel i have watched enough you tube to be one !
Rich
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Well i put the wheels in motion after a bit of research , ordered all the bits , got scammed along the way (so i thought ) , but its all in now , excuse the vid , not my strong point public speaking !
Well this is what i have and its looking really promising , i will do some more in depth vids on what i got , where , and why i got it soon .
This is just a taster taken at 6 today to give you an idea of what to expect , the results of yield are not great but over the day they are quite amazing with regard to what you can pump into the battery !
Any Q's , just ask away 8) , check me out in my sunnies ;D
Rich
https://youtu.be/3gXXYYOjLzY
Hi Rich,
Was looking forward to your solar panel addition. Very nice video.
Firstly, good on you for getting a genuine MPPT controller. And those volt and amp gauges are ideal to see what the panel is doing. The most important detail is the amps.
If your battery is pretty much charged then the output into the battery will be reduced even when the sun is out.
My only 'concern' is to ensure that the brackets give adequate support to the panel as you don't want it breaking in the middle from road vibration.
Hey Spruce , firstly i must hold my hands up about the solar controller , i did buy cheap china one to start from Ebay £23 , little bit of doubt as to its realness as MPPT as lots are faked , they just put the PWM ones into a casing marked with MPPT !
I will tell the tale of that in a minute .
With regard to the mounting of the panel , that is just for now to see if its all viable , i am looking to put it on some kind of pivot or swing action so i can track the sun properly .
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Thanks for the interest guys , thought i would test the water with a vid to see if any interest , now i know people are interested i will do more of better quality !
I will answer the Q's as they come , im no expert in solar ,but i feel i have watched enough you tube to be one !
Rich
Hi Rich, thanks for the video. I'm a visual learner, so it will help no end for me when I go down that route. Thank you 😊
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Can I ask what is the need for the controller and all the extra bits.
Why can I not get a solar panel and connect it to my battery and job done?
Maybe stick a 2 quid voltmeter on the battery and disconnect it if it's full?
You can do that , but solar panels will put out anything from 0 volts to 22 volts at any given time , the solar controller regulates that voltage in the same way that an intelligent charger does.
You can run as Nathan does and keep a close eye on it , but you will still be at most times cooking the battery .
With a controller you can leave on all the time , so from sun up its charging until sun down , before you start and long after you finish .
The 2 types of controller are ......
PWM - This one takes the voltage from the panel and reduces it to around 14 volt to feed the battery , the rest it throws away , now this could be anything up to 8 volts (Big waste of power)
MPPT - Does the same job , but instead of throwing the over voltage away it sends it though another coil and converts the over voltage into Amps , usually 20% more efficient , (This is called DC to DC conversion )
I will show you what to look for shortly , if you go cheap chinese route as i originally did .
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Just out of curiosity why did you install it on the roof rack and not the roof, as that now restricts your roof bars just in case you want to use the full width for anything else.
Think I will go Down the solarroute when I get another van.
I dont use the rack for anything other than my little pointer and my bike , also , if you are going to mount on the van roof and then put ladders on rack causing shadow then you just as well burn your wallet ;D
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I don't mean to be the killjoy but would it not be easier to fit an SCR or Battery to Battery charger & bench charge every so often if needed? Also they're obviously much more discreet than having a massive panel on your roof.
Interesting all the same.
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Do you mind me asking how much that costs (ish) all in, and to those that already use a solar panel, what sort of ampage to you expect to put back into the battery on an average week?
Interested in this as it could be a more cost efficient way of charging batteries on newer vehicles, especially as the battery to battery chargers are expensive (compared to the standard scr's) but it all comes down to average rate of charge...
Nice vid btw
OK , cost wise i did very well ........
Solar panel - Ebay private seller , 80 watt mono crystalline rigid , £40 :o ;D
Controller - Including 5m of wire and fixings , £80
Watt meters - £12 each Ebay , local firm
I got a steal on the panel , if you get one on Ebay new , you will be looking at roughly £100/£110 for 80/100 watt.
If i was starting again i would firstly get 2 x 50 watt panels £60 each on Ebay , if you run them in series and not parralell you will double the voltage to around 40 volt , the over voltage of about 26 volts will then be converted to amps if you have MPPT 8)
I would get the same controller again , but instead of the watt meters i would get an add on for the conroller , they do a bluetooth dongle that via a free app lets you see masses of info on what the system is doing via smartphone , this is £40 .
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I don't mean to be the killjoy but would it not be easier to fit an SCR or Battery to Battery charger & bench charge every so often if needed? Also they're obviously much more discreet than having a massive panel on your roof.
Interesting all the same.
If you have access to a drive way then life is much easier for a wfper. But P & F hasn't. To get his battery to a place where he can charge it is a right carry on. So solar will help him to keep the batteries fully charged - in summer anyway and could possibly extend from March through the November. Time will tell.
He could have just fitted an SCR but doing limited mileage its not the total solution. The only time I have a fully charged battery is when I put the charger on it.
Having both is a further step. Victron do also sell a split charge relay to compliment their solar charging system, but any relay will do.
One of the videos pointed to in any earlier solar thread showed a standard PWM controller and a Durite VSR as a joint charging solution. The beauty about the Durite unit is that it is bi directional which means that any excess solar energy will be used to top up the van's battery as well.
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I don't mean to be the killjoy but would it not be easier to fit an SCR or Battery to Battery charger & bench charge every so often if needed? Also they're obviously much more discreet than having a massive panel on your roof.
Interesting all the same.
I have looked at all of that , people need to throw a spanner in , as this may not work for all , remember that some work long hours and will use more than they produce .
I have done it purely for the fact that i dont do any milage to run SCR or B2B chargers , solar may not work for me yet , especially through winter , i would maybe need to bench charge now and again , but i would rather waste money on solar than SCR , if solar dont work it will go on the roof of my shed and power the man cave via inverter or the 12 volt .
If i go SCR/B2B and that dont work im left selling it on at loss .
I will probably only have about 2 hours constant run time of pump per day , lets say 12 Amp , that is definately do able in summer , and not totally unthinkable in winter with ongoing mods i have in mind .
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Do you mind me asking how much that costs (ish) all in, and to those that already use a solar panel, what sort of ampage to you expect to put back into the battery on an average week?
Interested in this as it could be a more cost efficient way of charging batteries on newer vehicles, especially as the battery to battery chargers are expensive (compared to the standard scr's) but it all comes down to average rate of charge...
Nice vid btw
OK , cost wise i did very well ........
Solar panel - Ebay private seller , 80 watt mono crystalline rigid , £40 :o ;D
Controller - Including 5m of wire and fixings , £80
Watt meters - £12 each Ebay , local firm
I got a steal on the panel , if you get one on Ebay new , you will be looking at roughly £100/£110 for 80/100 watt.
If i was starting again i would firstly get 2 x 50 watt panels £60 each on Ebay , if you run them in series and not parralell you will double the voltage to around 40 volt , the over voltage of about 26 volts will then be converted to amps if you have MPPT 8)
I would get the same controller again , but instead of the watt meters i would get an add on for the conroller , they do a bluetooth dongle that via a free app lets you see masses of info on what the system is doing via smartphone , this is £40 .
And this is what I would do as it monitors what the controller is doing throughout the day. But those little volt/amp meters have told you what your panel was doing at that moment and that's a good start. Now you also know how much power your pump in drawing.
If you are happy with the result, then you could add an on/off switch into the cable from the panels. It makes removing the battery terminals 'safer'.
Something like this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-DC-HOME-SOLAR-SYSTEM-WATERPROOF-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-RESET-FUSE-INVERTER/361148581941?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=630494904532&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
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Do you mind me asking how much that costs (ish) all in, and to those that already use a solar panel, what sort of ampage to you expect to put back into the battery on an average week?
Interested in this as it could be a more cost efficient way of charging batteries on newer vehicles, especially as the battery to battery chargers are expensive (compared to the standard scr's) but it all comes down to average rate of charge...
Nice vid btw
OK , cost wise i did very well ........
Solar panel - Ebay private seller , 80 watt mono crystalline rigid , £40 :o ;D
Controller - Including 5m of wire and fixings , £80
Watt meters - £12 each Ebay , local firm
I got a steal on the panel , if you get one on Ebay new , you will be looking at roughly £100/£110 for 80/100 watt.
If i was starting again i would firstly get 2 x 50 watt panels £60 each on Ebay , if you run them in series and not parralell you will double the voltage to around 40 volt , the over voltage of about 26 volts will then be converted to amps if you have MPPT 8)
I would get the same controller again , but instead of the watt meters i would get an add on for the conroller , they do a bluetooth dongle that via a free app lets you see masses of info on what the system is doing via smartphone , this is £40 .
And this is what I would do as it monitors what the controller is doing throughout the day. But those little volt/amp meters have told you what your panel was doing at that moment and that's a good start. Now you also know how much power your pump in drawing.
If you are happy with the result, then you could add an on/off switch into the cable from the panels. It makes removing the battery terminals 'safer'.
Something like this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-DC-HOME-SOLAR-SYSTEM-WATERPROOF-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-RESET-FUSE-INVERTER/361148581941?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=630494904532&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
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Spruce , we must share thoughts , im installing quick couplers to battery and pump today to make it easier for a bench charge should i need to !
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I don't mean to be the killjoy but would it not be easier to fit an SCR or Battery to Battery charger & bench charge every so often if needed? Also they're obviously much more discreet than having a massive panel on your roof.
Interesting all the same.
I have looked at all of that , people need to throw a spanner in , as this may not work for all , remember that some work long hours and will use more than they produce .
I have done it purely for the fact that i dont do any milage to run SCR or B2B chargers , solar may not work for me yet , especially through winter , i would maybe need to bench charge now and again , but i would rather waste money on solar than SCR , if solar dont work it will go on the roof of my shed and power the man cave via inverter or the 12 volt .
If i go SCR/B2B and that dont work im left selling it on at loss .
I will probably only have about 2 hours constant run time of pump per day , lets say 12 Amp , that is definately do able in summer , and not totally unthinkable in winter with ongoing mods i have in mind .
Point taken. I didn't know you didn't have access to a driveway. Hope it goes well.
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Its not a major issue with where i can park , i have a choice of 3 carparks , one 20m away , one 30m away , and one to the back of my house 25m away , getting the water to the van is a bigger issue than charging , the water can only be done one way , i have a static 800 L at front and static 450 L out back just so i can fill up !
The whole solar bit is more a "Just to see" exercise really !
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Just had a proper look at these watt meters and what good little gadgets they are .
They power up as soon as the panels get usable light and power off again when the panels stop producing , all the time in between they store the data for the day , but dont retain it for future reference , not all bad i suppose !
So i a am going to see what Amps it has collected from sun up to end of usable light , now being as the battery is currently on float fully charged it will only show so much , but the true value can only be higher than displayed for float charge , as it wont allow more in than is needed .
This is the weather so far today , cloudy , cant see the sun and its raining , not looking to change either , in fact not a bad day to compare to winter apart from length of light , but we can allow for that later , or i just make a note of when it would normally get unusable , when do you think that would be ?
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You got a good price on solar panel!!
Im keeping my eye on prices at moment as im thinking of lifting my 20w panel of the van and sitting it on the roof rack angled down to the van. And gettining another one to mirror from the front roof bar!
In effect, looking like \ / so i dont need to worry about piveting points as one or both panels will be in the sun at any one time.
Gonna look into the MPPT controller and play safe and go for mid price range ones.
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Ok, so given that its going to be a few hundred quid to do it right its probably not worth it for me as i can pull onto my driveway and just run an extension to an outside plug socket every night.
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So its your fault why it's been raining all bloody day!!!
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So its your fault why it's been raining all bloody day!!!
I thought you were on holiday .......AGAIN :(
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Well that was a bit naff , so it works out that with the weather like that all day i pulled in just short of 2 Amps , that would run my pump for 30 minutes non stop , that could equate to 1 hour of cleaning or there abouts .
At my flow set to 90 , thats 1.7 L per minute my pump uses 4.5 Amps an hour .
So looking at 2 - 3 hours of continuous running per day , i will need to produce between 9 and 13.5 Amps per day .
I think that is within reach as with todays test the solar controller was on float charge all day and i am not sure if any energy was dumped off due to the battery not needing it , a day where the pole system and solar are both running will tell , i will see exactly whats come in and what gone out on the watt meters .
Rich
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Just a little vid on what to look for with MPPT and PWM solar controllers , more so if its from Ebay .
https://youtu.be/cYYSkt5cEWs
Rich
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Well that was a bit naff , so it works out that with the weather like that all day i pulled in just short of 2 Amps , that would run my pump for 30 minutes non stop , that could equate to 1 hour of cleaning or there abouts .
At my flow set to 90 , thats 1.7 L per minute my pump uses 4.5 Amps an hour .
So looking at 2 - 3 hours of continuous running per day , i will need to produce between 9 and 13.5 Amps per day .
I think that is within reach as with todays test the solar controller was on float charge all day and i am not sure if any energy was dumped off due to the battery not needing it , a day where the pole system and solar are both running will tell , i will see exactly whats come in and what gone out on the watt meters .
Rich
If you were in float charge mode all day then the charge controller was just taking what it needed to keep the batteries fully topped up - 2amps.
As you say, the test comes when you get out there and put a load on the battery. So I expect that you should start to get an idea how it will perform during the Autumn tomorrow, weather permitting.
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Just a little vid on what to look for with MPPT and PWM solar controllers , more so if its from Ebay .
https://youtu.be/cYYSkt5cEWs
Rich
My browser doesn't recognise the video format, which is strange, as the earlier one it did. :(
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Just a little vid on what to look for with MPPT and PWM solar controllers , more so if its from Ebay .
https://youtu.be/cYYSkt5cEWs
Rich
My browser doesn't recognise the video format, which is strange, as the earlier one it did. :(
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This is the link i saw the controller on , he goes on a bit but he knows his stuff , he got some great vids / reviews .
https://youtu.be/1z5r3Yo6fmQ
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Just a suggestion, double your batteries for stored energy during winter when less daylight hours of charging
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I thought about that but i dont think the Noddy van will take any more ;D
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What was the outcome today? How did the panel perform?
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What was the outcome today? How did the panel perform?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What a cracking day of results , just got winter days to tackle now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyttufTuozU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOqhHw199XI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtO0B7y5kRc
Rich
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You still have a couple of hours daylight to make up the 0.5amp you are short, or if you installed VSR even on minimum mileage short top up in winter .
Thanks for posting hope you update every week or so to see how much it really drops during autumn and winter months.
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Glad your enjoying the results.
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What a cracking day of results , just got winter days to tackle now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyttufTuozU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOqhHw199XI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtO0B7y5kRc
Rich
Thanks for updating this. The 0.5 amp shortfall will be made up in the remainder of yesterday evening and this morning as Den68 says. Increasing the panel size would also help in the future. But as you say, winter is going to be an interesting experience.
You have created a very informative thread Rich. Thank you. :)
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What a cracking day of results , just got winter days to tackle now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyttufTuozU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOqhHw199XI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtO0B7y5kRc
Rich
Thanks for updating this. The 0.5 amp shortfall will be made up in the remainder of yesterday evening and this morning as Den68 says. Increasing the panel size would also help in the future. But as you say, winter is going to be an interesting experience.
You have created a very informative thread Rich. Thank you. :)
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Thanks , its nice to see that my shocking videos are of some use , they should be of better picture quality as of now as i realised last night that my phone was set to wide screen , you tube was not liking the resolution it said !
I will do some more tests with varying weather , and maybe one where the pumps are running for a greater pecentage of the time out , i have a school to do this week so that should be a better indication of how the sysem copes with more power draw .
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OK , another day of fine weather , decided to put a bit more demand on the system , it seems i could not use the power as fast as it produced it !
This is the last sun test for now , im gonna try a busy day with a lot of cloud cover next , see how it holds up , and i did notice today that as the battery was not getting flat at all , the flow of 90 was maybe more than i needed , i cut it back to 75 and was still getting plenty of water out , and it was only drawing 3.5 amp i think at that time , this could be another bonus of having the battery at full power constantly , ENJOY THE VIDS CHAPS , gimme some likes and i will stop boring yer arses ;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/NfkiTLUQJ6k
https://youtu.be/oFFehig6lro
https://youtu.be/wAOBC-t0y_I
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Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline ;D :-*
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Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline ;D :-*
I'll come to Swilly , i mean Plympton and shake you by the neck in a minute boyo ;D
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Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline ;D :-*
I'll come to Swilly , i mean Plympton and shake you by the neck in a minute boyo ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cloudy all day today , i reckon i saw the sun proper for no more than 30 minutes , which has been a good thing to give some idea of performance for winter , i did 5 x 3 bed semis , one with connie , then 3 hours running on the school job .
The panel gave me 8 amps in , and the pump drew 15 amps out , so im short of 7 amp to be fully charged , however that was 4.30 , so i have whatever went in after and what goes in from sun up in the morning until i start work at around 10.30 .
Just had a look now and the battery is reading 12.5 volts , part of me wants to put it on the bench charger for the night , but i feel that would serve no purpose in all this testing , gonna leave it and see how it looks in the morning , im either brave or dumb.
Only one way to see if it really is viable :-\
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Cloudy all day today , i reckon i saw the sun proper for no more than 30 minutes , which has been a good thing to give some idea of performance for winter , i did 5 x 3 bed semis , one with connie , then 3 hours running on the school job .
The panel gave me 8 amps in , and the pump drew 15 amps out , so im short of 7 amp to be fully charged , however that was 4.30 , so i have whatever went in after and what goes in from sun up in the morning until i start work at around 10.30 .
Just had a look now and the battery is reading 12.5 volts , part of me wants to put it on the bench charger for the night , but i feel that would serve no purpose in all this testing , gonna leave it and see how it looks in the morning , im either brave or dumb.
Only one way to see if it really is viable :-\
The battery has had long enough to settle down. 12.5v is 75% charged. So you should have enough to get you through another day if the weather is cloudy without you having to intervene.
What size (amph) leisure battery do you have?
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85 amp leisure , not over a year old .
I have thought about a 115 amp , sure it will give me the back up power in storage , but i have noticed that the solar controller only intervenes at a certain voltage range , at the most sunny part of the day is when my 85 would begin to need food ,this is when the controller would see that its time to bulk charge , i have watched it in the past few days and it does slam the amps in at this stage .
If i was to upgrade to 115 i may well miss this point as the battery would not be so hungry , its kind of like when it goes into float charge at 1 in the afternoon , you just know that the controller is probably binning off a good ammount of ampage .
What you think Spruce ?
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The volt/amp reader came yesterday, i just need to get round to installing it. But also now after watching your vids and the info you give, im reaching a so/so conclusion about getting the mppt.
On one hand it will stop me having to be watching the voltage everytime i go back to the van.......that part i like! However every ounce of juice is put directly back into my battery which is a 110ah leisure. From finishing anywhere from 3.30 - 5pm, but thats me finishing work not the solar panels doing their work. I understand the charge will be weaker and again in the morning, but whilst im not draining the battery, its directly charging.
So P@F im sure you will be fine for tomorrow.
Here it was black sky all morning and on/off heavy showers as well. (For different reasons i had to finish half day today) Yet come dinner, the black dark clouds moved on and the blue sky appeared along with the brightness of the solar torch in the heavens. Which makes up for the poor draw in the morning
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85 amp leisure , not over a year old .
I have thought about a 115 amp , sure it will give me the back up power in storage , but i have noticed that the solar controller only intervenes at a certain voltage range , at the most sunny part of the day is when my 85 would begin to need food ,this is when the controller would see that its time to bulk charge , i have watched it in the past few days and it does slam the amps in at this stage .
If i was to upgrade to 115 i may well miss this point as the battery would not be so hungry , its kind of like when it goes into float charge at 1 in the afternoon , you just know that the controller is probably binning off a good ammount of ampage .
What you think Spruce ?
Its my opinion that you should just stay with what you have at the present and work with that. The reason for thinking this way is that if you start changing things too much then you will never know what works and what doesn't. You are already experiencing the moving goal posts of the weather and shorter daylight hours as we head toward winter, so adding further changes won't help with your experiment. Once you identify what you are lacking, you can then make better solution assumptions, ie., a bigger panel etc.
Having a bigger battery will give you a bigger storage cushion but it will also take longer to recharge. Then again, if the 85amp battery is fully charged over a weekend and the solar panel isn't being fully utilised then that's a shame. In summer your panel is going to fully charge that battery with excess current being shed/wasted. But as we head into winter the proverbial goal posts will keep moving backwards.
Before this last weekend you will have been 'bench' charging your battery pretty regularily. You haven't needed to so far this week. At 75% charge you might get through today and tomorrow without having to bench charge. If you can then you will have the weekend (provided you aren't working) to let the panel recharge your battery.
You will have a pretty good idea where you are on Sunday evening. If your battery still needs some charge then you might have to bench charge it on Sunday evening. But if you aren't working on Monday then you could leave everything another day and access the situation on Monday evening.
Its just that you want to not let the battery drop to far below 12.4v which is 50% charged. But for the odd experiement it won't be the end of the world doing this. However, you obviously need to have enough power to complete a day's work.
The MPPT controller will suck out everything the panel produces in the early morning. It will be a fractional amount, so could only be described as trickle charging. Once the panel gets into full sunlight the trickle charging will become a boost or bulk charge. Unfortunately you need that extra donge and android/apple app to see exactly what the MPPT controller is doing over the course of the full day and every day of the week.
You already know that your panel isn't going to be sufficient to fully charge your battery in winter, but what you are looking to do is supplement your daily power consumption as efficiently as possible to reduce the number of times you have to bench charge it.
I believe that your experiement will help a few others to go the solar route, but will now realise that it isn't the soul solution for all seasons. If solar works for pretty much 3 of the 4 seasons, then it could well be a wfper's next must have.
I also think that if you also had a split charge relay (which aren't expensive and depending on your van's charging system) could could have replenished that shortfall with a journey time of 1/2 and hour's driving home last night and 1/2 an hour's driving this morning.
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Well , when i checked the battery this morning using my brave approach , it was fully charged by 9 am .
I dont want to start messing with the parts just yet because as you say , it will invalidate all i have learned so far .
So i went out fully charged to start at 10.30 , i did 4 x 4 bedders and 1 x 3 bedder , i then went on to the school for another 3 hours more or less non stop , when i got home i had these results , 10.5 amp in and 13 amp out , the weather was i would say 30% sun 70% overcast , the voltage was 12.58 volts at 5 pm , its now 9 pm and the reading is 12.42 volts .
The thing that is bugging me is , what does it class as fully charged , 12.9 or 13.1 or what ?
My smart charger runs on the premis that the voltage is not the thing to go on , it is determined by % charged , normally after an
overnight charge it is found to be on holding charge and it registers as 100% , i think i will just pop out and put it on the bench to get a % reading , watch this space !
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OK , its just been on the bench , it was all over the place but seetled after 5 mins , charger told me it was 12.9 volt , it was putting in 3.9 amp and was at 80 % charge .
By rights 12.4 is half baked and in the zone i dont want to be in , do i believe the bench charger or do i trust in the solar controller ?
It was a good job i went to the shed though , i just found the backpack on charge that i had forgotten about from earlier !
I think i am going to have to leave my faith in the solar , otherwise its all for nothing , wish me luck chaps , but then if its cloudy in the morning i can look forward to an early finish eh ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony
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Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony
That was one of my thoughts , i can get a 28ah small battery which i can take 14ah out of without damage , that would give me at least 3 hours running as backup , maybe i will do that over the winter to cover myself
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Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony
That was one of my thoughts , i can get a 28ah small battery which i can take 14ah out of without damage , that would give me at least 3 hours running as backup , maybe i will do that over the winter to cover myself
This is what i do just as a back up.
(But i also have a 12v 27amp battery which i use for the electric reel........so not short of any power.)
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Oh dear , that was not supposed to happen !
Well i went out with my battery so called fully charged , i went to the school and did another 3 hour stint of continuous running , after 2 hours it was obvious that we had a problem , pressure and flow dropped right off , i went to van to find that the battery voltage was a mere 11.9 volt , i got the job done but that is no good , i cant carry on like that !
So to sum up , the battery went a full week before giving up , it had no bench charge for the full week , only 15 mins last night while i did the % test , it has been a mixed bag of weather over the week , but the battery has done 4 stints of continuous running at 3 hours each , that is not usual on my round , i think that it took a good kickin and did not really get replenished to the full .
Monday was a usual day with no 3 hour school stint to drain it , i think it was a case of 1 amp less coming in than going out , this is the ideal , but it does show that solar wont work on its own for the busy boys .
Lets not forget that with us going into winter the results wont be so good from now on , as much as i dont want to just yet , i think that a bench charge on a Sunday night and maybe a Tuesday night could be in order , or i could take a chance and keep running as i am but get a small battery as mentioned earlier and use it for emergency power , or i could treat myself to a new 85 amp and use my current one as backup , it could well be my current 85amp has had the life benched out of it already and is not performing as it should .
Your thoughts people ?
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If you dont work wknds and dont use the van?? Park in the optimal position and see what its like over the wknd and see if it gets fully charged.
Or as you are doing this to test this option out, then treat yourself to a new battery so everything is set at the very best you can have for testing. Then keep the current battery on tick over charge so not wasting any charge not being used by the new battery and so you have a spare to run off whilst one battery is on full charge from the panel whilst your working in the sun from the back up battery
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my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.
ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.
by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
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my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.
ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.
by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
I bought the very same (smart charger) from Halfords , biggest pile of poop i ever blew money on , it cooked one battery due to not switching off , and the second it charged less and less every time until it managed to kill the memory of the battery , its in the shed buried in the corner i think !
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my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.
ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.
by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
I bought the very same (smart charger) from Halfords , biggest pile of poop i ever blew money on , it cooked one battery due to not switching off , and the second it charged less and less every time until it managed to kill the memory of the battery , its in the shed buried in the corner i think !
It must be a different one than mine then rich as mine automatically switches to trickle charge when fully charged. (Green light).ìts been brilliant.well worth £40.
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This is the piece of turd , am i right ;D
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/halfords-automatic-battery-charger-vehicles-up-to-2-0l?_br_psugg_q=battery+charger
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OK , its just been on the bench , it was all over the place but seetled after 5 mins , charger told me it was 12.9 volt , it was putting in 3.9 amp and was at 80 % charge .
By rights 12.4 is half baked and in the zone i dont want to be in , do i believe the bench charger or do i trust in the solar controller ?
It was a good job i went to the shed though , i just found the backpack on charge that i had forgotten about from earlier !
I think i am going to have to leave my faith in the solar , otherwise its all for nothing , wish me luck chaps , but then if its cloudy in the morning i can look forward to an early finish eh ;D ;D ;D ;D
A leisure battery needs around 4 hours of rest before you can tell its state of charge with a voltmeter. A fully charged leisure battery will read 12.7 to 12.9 volts. I haven't seen mine at 12.9 for a very long time now even after its been on a floating charge for the weekend.
So the only way you will get a more accurate reading is by disconnecting the panel at night and reading the battery voltage in the morning before reconnecting the solar panel.
We have just come back from a weekend away on a canal boat in the Midlands. Those adjustable solar panel brackets that were on the video I linked to earlier "cruising the cut" are suitable for narrow boats but I wouldn't be using them on a van that has much greater wind loads than any canal boat. Flip, top speed was 4mph and we averaged 2mph excluding waiting time at the locks.
;D
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This is the piece of turd , am i right ;D
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/halfords-automatic-battery-charger-vehicles-up-to-2-0l?_br_psugg_q=battery+charger
thats the one richy.its been really good value for money for me.id buy another one tomorrow if mine packed up.
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This is the piece of turd , am i right ;D
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/halfords-automatic-battery-charger-vehicles-up-to-2-0l?_br_psugg_q=battery+charger
thats the one richy.its been really good value for money for me.id buy another one tomorrow if mine packed up.
I must have got a Friday afternoon one then ;D
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I used a 100 thin film solar panel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100W-12V-PV-Semi-flexible-Thin-Mono-Solar-Panel-Module-for-Yacht-Car-Motor-home-/172245880826?epid=1365717635&hash=item281aa78ffa:g:FOQAAOSwZJBYB4EY
and glued it to my van with caravan glue.
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I used a 100 thin film solar panel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100W-12V-PV-Semi-flexible-Thin-Mono-Solar-Panel-Module-for-Yacht-Car-Motor-home-/172245880826?epid=1365717635&hash=item281aa78ffa:g:FOQAAOSwZJBYB4EY
and glued it to my van with caravan glue.
How are you getting on with yours , what bits and bobs do you have , what are your experiences with it ?
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I did mine a few years ago... I actually changed the controller to a double charge controller so both batteries where charged. I found I only need to charge them manually a few times a year.
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I did mine a few years ago... I actually changed the controller to a double charge controller so both batteries where charged. I found I only need to charge them manually a few times a year.
Do you have a link to this double charge controller by any chance , i just want a read up on it , i must have missed these on my hunt for bits !
Rich
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I did mine a few years ago... I actually changed the controller to a double charge controller so both batteries where charged. I found I only need to charge them manually a few times a year.
Do you have a link to this double charge controller by any chance , i just want a read up on it , i must have missed these on my hunt for bits !
Rich
Here's one
http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/836/morningstar-sunsaver-duo-monitor
But its still a pwm controller. It can just split the amps to charge 2 batteries. If you had a Durite VSR linking your starter and leisure battery together then an excess watts from your panels in summer would go the charging your starter battery.
Funnily enough, I read a comment on the canal boat forums that there is a question if an MPPT controller is better than a PWM controller for solar panels smaller than 200 watts.
Bit I haven'ty found any other 'expert' confirming that.
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I did mine a few years ago... I actually changed the controller to a double charge controller so both batteries where charged. I found I only need to charge them manually a few times a year.
Do you have a link to this double charge controller by any chance , i just want a read up on it , i must have missed these on my hunt for bits !
Rich
Here's one
http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/836/morningstar-sunsaver-duo-monitor
But its still a pwm controller. It can just split the amps to charge 2 batteries. If you had a Durite VSR linking your starter and leisure battery together then an excess watts from your panels in summer would go the charging your starter battery.
Funnily enough, I read a comment on the canal boat forums that there is a question if an MPPT controller is better than a PWM controller for solar panels smaller than 200 watts.
Bit I haven'ty found any other 'expert' confirming that.
I think that MPPT comes into its own when you have over voltage , I have been watching the watt meters very closely lately , due to my wrongly named "Epic fail " , I just got a bit c*cksure of myself thinking i had it cracked !
This week i have worked every day and am nowhere near the low voltage that caught me out last week , I have been pulling in more or less whats been going out give or take 1 amp , this is replaced the next day before i get in the van for work .
The next move for me is to replace the single 80 watt panel with 2 x 60 watt panels , why , well the 80 watt has been giving me about 15 volts in cloudy conditions , this over feed of 3 volt has been converted to an extra half amp with the MPPT doing its thing , I will run the 60 watt panels in series giving me at least 30 volt , thus being over voltage of at least 15 volt , on paper this should give me a 2.5 amp boost per hour , which should come very close to my amp usage per hour , its all very much pie in the sky to be honest , but i dont see anybody else doing it for me !
It wont be a waste either way as i have the extra MPPT sat doing nothing at the mo , i will couple that up with the surplus 80 watt panel and whack it on the shed , the solar geeks man cave ! ;D
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I did mine a few years ago... I actually changed the controller to a double charge controller so both batteries where charged. I found I only need to charge them manually a few times a year.
Do you have a link to this double charge controller by any chance , i just want a read up on it , i must have missed these on my hunt for bits !
Rich
Here's one
http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/prod/836/morningstar-sunsaver-duo-monitor
But its still a pwm controller. It can just split the amps to charge 2 batteries. If you had a Durite VSR linking your starter and leisure battery together then an excess watts from your panels in summer would go the charging your starter battery.
Funnily enough, I read a comment on the canal boat forums that there is a question if an MPPT controller is better than a PWM controller for solar panels smaller than 200 watts.
Bit I haven'ty found any other 'expert' confirming that.
I think that MPPT comes into its own when you have over voltage , I have been watching the watt meters very closely lately , due to my wrongly named "Epic fail " , I just got a bit c*cksure of myself thinking i had it cracked !
This week i have worked every day and am nowhere near the low voltage that caught me out last week , I have been pulling in more or less whats been going out give or take 1 amp , this is replaced the next day before i get in the van for work .
The next move for me is to replace the single 80 watt panel with 2 x 60 watt panels , why , well the 80 watt has been giving me about 15 volts in cloudy conditions , this over feed of 3 volt has been converted to an extra half amp with the MPPT doing its thing , I will run the 60 watt panels in series giving me at least 30 volt , thus being over voltage of at least 15 volt , on paper this should give me a 2.5 amp boost per hour , which should come very close to my amp usage per hour , its all very much pie in the sky to be honest , but i dont see anybody else doing it for me !
It wont be a waste either way as i have the extra MPPT sat doing nothing at the mo , i will couple that up with the surplus 80 watt panel and whack it on the shed , the solar geeks man cave ! ;D
I’ve considered the pros and cons of solar on numerous occasions over the years Rich and decided against it.
My van is a 2 man system so it seems logical we will draw twice the power from the battery you do. I also would like to eventually put my diesel heater back in and that also draws a lot of power. Also a consideration shortly will be an electric hose reel as I’m battling reeling hose back in each time.
Our biggest ‘con’ was that we had 2 very large cherry trees bordering our front garden which meant that the drive and outside street parking was in full summer shade. This meant that solar would have been of little benefit with the van standing over the weekend. (We recently had the cherry trees removed.)
All the reviews I could find seemed to be sales driven hype. No one said anything about how their panels performed in the winter. The only one I saw was on a motorhome forum where someone said the all you could expect from a solar panel in the winter was to keep an already fully charged motor home battery bank in a fully charged condition when in storage. It probably wouldn’t keep up with the drain of an activated vehicle alarm.
We have no other choice but to secure our panels flat on the van’s roof. Having those adjusting brackets to tilt the panels are fine for canal boats but aren’t secure enough for the wind loads travelling at speed would place on them.
We saw a number of canal boats with 3 fixed panels on the roof. The first was flat and the 2nd and 3rd were fitted in an upside down V shape to catch either the early morning or late evening rays. I thought that was a good idea for anyone considering solar on their van.
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Here's a video on an 80 watt flexible panel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs7RIQYpOtM
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Here's a video on an 80 watt flexible panel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs7RIQYpOtM
Nice to get it for free , then he went and broke it ;D ;D ;D
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Well this week was a lot better, it was a true reflection of my usual kind of work and break habits , battery was bench charged on Sunday 27th Aug , it went through without intervention until Thursday 31st Aug , it showed no sign of needing the bench but I had 8 x half million pound houses to do on Friday so i wanted to be safe !
After those the battery was still at float charge ! (fairly good solar weather on Friday though)
So today was a mix of sun and cloud , I thought it a good day to test the £23 MPPT ebay controller against the £80 MPPT reputable outlet controller that i have been using until now.
I mounted them next to each other so I could use the same wiring for both , I was rather shocked at the results that i got !
£23 ebay job converted the over voltage and gave me an increase of 5% yield .
£80 shop job converted the over voltage and gave me an increase of 20% yield .
So the proof is in the pudding , if you are going to do it , go for the quality controller chaps .
Rich
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So the proof is in the pudding , if you are going to do it , go for the quality controller chaps .
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1504382119_Selection_999(482).jpg)
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That is from Bimble solar isnt it Cleanclear ?
I must have missed that bit , I will link in to see the test they did , cheers for that !
My next move was going to be upping the voltage via 2 panels , this should make the Victron 75/10 earn its £80 price , mind you , I have not read the little report yet so I may change my mind within minutes !
Rich
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Well this week was a lot better, it was a true reflection of my usual kind of work and break habits , battery was bench charged on Sunday 27th Aug , it went through without intervention until Thursday 31st Aug , it showed no sign of needing the bench but I had 8 x half million pound houses to do on Friday so i wanted to be safe !
After those the battery was still at float charge ! (fairly good solar weather on Friday though)
So today was a mix of sun and cloud , I thought it a good day to test the £23 MPPT ebay controller against the £80 MPPT reputable outlet controller that i have been using until now.
I mounted them next to each other so I could use the same wiring for both , I was rather shocked at the results that i got !
£23 ebay job converted the over voltage and gave me an increase of 5% yield .
£80 shop job converted the over voltage and gave me an increase of 20% yield .
So the proof is in the pudding , if you are going to do it , go for the quality controller chaps .
Rich
That is interesting.
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Well being as I am having great results from solar , I have not had to remove the battery since 31st August , not that long but the weather has been total pants , so I thought it was time to tidy it up and hide all the wires and meters , I have also fitted an isolator switch as recomended by Spruce , 250 volt 20 amp .
Rich
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Looking very good!!
Im in planning stages of redesigning n buying a 2nd solar panel to keep fixed on the van along with my existing one and go for a mppt controller.
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Thanks Nath , dont buy the cheap MPPT's off ebay mate , its worth spending the £80 i paid as i am getting 15% more yield than i got from the ebay jobbie .
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Thanks Nath , dont buy the cheap MPPT's off ebay mate , its worth spending the £80 i paid as i am getting 15% more yield than i got from the ebay jobbie .
Yep i saw that on your post or your vid you did. Its been very impressive info houve done 👍
I know solar works well for me and ive been able to charge up my new trolley with the small panel i have. But ive not been able to give specific results like youve been able to. But i have the volt/amp meter from the link you put up a while ago and its impressive how youve hidden the wires so im gonna take my time sorting this next bit out on my van so im not redoing it several months down line.
(My wifes like,,,,,,,why dont you leave it alone now! 😂 but im hooked )