Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on August 06, 2017, 04:30:15 pm
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Been looking around and i see that it has been tried and is thought of as a waste of time , i see that Mark munroe had a go with limited success , anybody know why this was , i saw his youtubes but he never explained why it did not work .
Yet Nathan Kaye seems to be doing a whole lot better with less equipment .
If anybody can shed any light on this please do .
Rich
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Calculate how many amp hours you use in a day. (Watt of pump over voltage). X time in hours.
Then take the power rate of the panel w and multiply that by the average sun hours, taking into account angle of the panel and shading etc. Divide this by the potential difference and you'll have a reading in current. If this exceeds consumption it's a goer.
Allow for heat loss and inefficiency too.
Can't see why not.
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Yes , i am aware of all that needs to be taken into consideration , its a lot to work out , mono, poly , mppt , pwm , peak sun , GHI , the list goes on and on and on ;D
But im just seeing what was the problem for others that had tried , before i do the same maybe ;D
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Chuck one on the roof and have a go! Remember to disconnect on a hot weekend to avoid over charging.
Good luck!
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Chuck one on the roof and have a go! Remember to disconnect on a hot weekend to avoid over charging.
Good luck!
If only it was that simple Og !
From what i have seen , others are using small panels 40W max looking at them , i reckon for it to be totally automated with no need to ever bench charge then 150/200W would be the minimum size , and even then it might be touch and go .
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Wouldn't bother with anything under 200w. On a sunny day that'll really chuck the power in.
Try http://www.bimblesolar.com/
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Wouldn't bother with anything under 200w. On a sunny day that'll really chuck the power in.
Try http://www.bimblesolar.com/
I have not looked at the link yet , i dont get what you say above , can you re phrase .
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Yep i didnt look too much into all the info into solar charging, haha found the more I read the more confusing it became and then hiw it doesnt work in the uk and bla bla bla.......so i decided to just get one and try. The flow of electricity is one way, so it isnt draining any power from my battery.
Then I simply rely on digi reading the battery voltage rather than using any smart boxes for solar panels. Then I check to me the main point, that (i think im right in this) if the battery is charging more than 14.5v it will kill off the battery more than helping it. So a simple disconnect of the wire sorts that and when the voltage start to drop to 12.7 // 12.8 i reconnect it.
Simples.
But of the one battery i only run the sureflow pump. I have a small 12v battery for my electric reel, which sometimes i will connect my smaller panel too if required.
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Yep i didnt look too much into all the info into solar charging, haha found the more I read the more confusing it became and then hiw it doesnt work in the uk and bla bla bla.......so i decided to just get one and try. The flow of electricity is one way, so it isnt draining any power from my battery.
Then I simply rely on digi reading the battery voltage rather than using any smart boxes for solar panels. Then I check to me the main point, that (i think im right in this) if the battery is charging more than 14.5v it will kill off the battery more than helping it. So a simple disconnect of the wire sorts that and when the voltage start to drop to 12.7 // 12.8 i reconnect it.
Simples.
But of the one battery i only run the sureflow pump. I have a small 12v battery for my electric reel, which sometimes i will connect my smaller panel too if required.
I see what you say about disconecting , it is the simpler option , but you would need to be on the ball all the time , i want to connect the panel, battery and load and leave in the van and never worry about charge state or more so putting it on the bench , the trouble comes with the peak sun index , its constantly changing day to day , im told that some days we can get as little as 1 hour of solar usable sun here in the uk , hence the need for charge controllers and what would seem overkill on panel size , truth is during the winter you need it to compensate for lack of sun .
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And i have also just seen in what you wrote that "The power is only one way" , this is not true as the minute that your battery hits a lower power level than the panel is supplying it will start to back charge , sending power from the battery to the panel .
This is where the controllers come into play , they also give multiple options to look at real battery state if you spend a bit more on them than the ebay led jobbies .
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Mark Munro got a panel to try out solar charging. He bought a cheap pwm controller. It was heading into winter and he wanted to use a battery driven frost tube heater off an inverter. The idea was to drain the battery during the night and recharge it during the day with the solar panel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MczpSkwTsBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVPx9C9srh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBETHJCPhiY
I contacted him to find out when the results video was out. He told me it didn't work and was a waste of time. He would probably have been better off using a quality MPPT controller and that would have converted his extra voltage into amps, whereas the cheap PWM controller disguards it.
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And i have also just seen in what you wrote that "The power is only one way" , this is not true as the minute that your battery hits a lower power level than the panel is supplying it will start to back charge , sending power from the battery to the panel .
This is where the controllers come into play , they also give multiple options to look at real battery state if you spend a bit more on them than the ebay led jobbies .
I didnt pay attention to the name of the piece, but the wiring has reverse current protection.
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Mark Munro got a panel to try out solar charging. He bought a cheap pwm controller. It was heading into winter and he wanted to use a battery driven frost tube heater off an inverter. The idea was to drain the battery during the night and recharge it during the day with the solar panel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBETHJCPhiY
I contacted him to find out when the results video was out. He told me it didn't work and was a waste of time.
It makes sense now , he was trying to power a heater , one of the things other than a fridge or freezer that is a major stumbling block for off grid solar users , it was never going to happen with the size of his battery bank , from what i can make out it was 110 amp , also the solar panel was waaaay too small , also the inverter was too much 1500w , and it should have been a pure sinewave inverter (big bucks).
I saw a couple living off grid in America , a sunny place too , they had 400w going into half a dozen batteries , they could only run a table top freezer as and when they had ice cream ;D
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I'm been recently thinking using solar combined with my split charge relay as lot of my round is local so I don't do that much mileage would be nice to hear of anyone that uses both for feedback.
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I'm been recently thinking using solar combined with my split charge relay as lot of my round is local so I don't do that much mileage would be nice to hear of anyone that uses both for feedback.
Thats what is stopping me from split charge too , if you are going to run both the first item you will need is an MPPT charge controller not a PWM one , that much i do know !
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I know nothing regards to solar power, but the link below shows a campervan with solar and split charge relay, the solar controller is PWM if you watch the video all the way through he explains the PWM controller shut off when the engine is running and the split charge relay produces enough volts to charge the leisure battery.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=puKw_KM_GFs
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I dont either , but i think the MPPT goes a step beyond and allows both sources to charge at the same time , ok your split charge will work when the PWM shuts down the panel charge , but why make the panels redundant when you dont have to with a MPPT controller you will get best of both worlds .
I may well be wrong , just going off youtube boredom !
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I'm been recently thinking using solar combined with my split charge relay as lot of my round is local so I don't do that much mileage would be nice to hear of anyone that uses both for feedback.
We do both on all of our vehicles.
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I'm been recently thinking using solar combined with my split charge relay as lot of my round is local so I don't do that much mileage would be nice to hear of anyone that uses both for feedback.
We do both on all of our vehicles.
Does that mean solar alone is not do able , you would know as you have the contacts to be in the know surely Steve !
Or is it because you cover large distances that splits do the job milage wise and solar is handy as you may be on a farm for hours on end with no split running ?
Do you use MPPT or PWM ?
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I'm been recently thinking using solar combined with my split charge relay as lot of my round is local so I don't do that much mileage would be nice to hear of anyone that uses both for feedback.
We do both on all of our vehicles.
Are your vehicles in the U.K. Are you using PWM or MPPT controllers do you recommend having solar installed on your vehicles , what size solar panels are you using? sorry for all the questions. Geniunely interested.
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Haha you beat me to it P@F
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Haha you beat me to it P@F
I was going to say "What are you , a feckin parrott " ;D ;D ;D
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Either way it works well for me. The vids in the link showing munro clearly shows its working esp if all your wanting to donis charge your leisure battery whilst working. So as not to leave your engine on for some thieving scally wag to nab.
Why over complicate it, get your control panel and go for it. Ive been using mine since feb 2016
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Any excuse to spend 5 min doing a quick vid to break from the boredom, haha.
So today (mon 7 aug) im doing a couple of vids throughout the day so you can see how effective solar panal charging is. But i will upload on youtube later this evening and drop a link on here
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Ok, time to be bored if your interested;
1st one was taken at 10am (part 1)
Part 2 & 2.b was taken after a 10min travel journey and again when leaving a shoping centre (showing difference in just a short time)
Part 3 is just a quickie showing battery voltage at 1.30pm
https://youtu.be/0Sh7SNhvXyY
https://youtu.be/zAvdxkYlVjY
https://youtu.be/Bs0xTmPaq2w
https://youtu.be/NLxRlb_NaM0
I was going to take another reading later but ive knocked off now at 3pm and its still 13v showing so no need to post that.
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Nice one Nathan thanks for the videos, I have a couple of questions
1 Do you have a split charge relay
2 Why don't you use a controller with your solar panel
3 what wattage is your solar panel.
Thanks.
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Nice one Nathan thanks for the videos, I have a couple of questions
1 Do you have a split charge relay
2 Why don't you use a controller with your solar panel
3 what wattage is your solar panel.
Thanks.
Answers;
1. I opted for the solar panal because I
dont cover the milleage to warrant
getting a split relay charger.
2. I had a controller which at first I forgot to set up. But after some months I did, but it must have been a rubbish one and//or I didnt have a clue about them but it waited to the wattahe was high enough before it started to transfer it to a source. Lol and im impatient as it worked fine and quicker without so i dont bother. I simply at a quick glance when i return to the van to check the voltage on the digi controller.
3, this is my main panal whichbi have fitted to the top of the van;
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1502127372_Screenshot_2017-08-07-18-30-17.png)
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Thanks again Nathan, think I'm going to look into this but I will defo use a controller just for simplicity sake as would like it automated .
So you only have a 20w panel how often do you bench charge your battery?
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That is nuts , how are you getting that much of a return charge from a 20 watt panel ?
This dude is telling me i want 200 watt on the roof .
Maybe these controllers are that safe that they really do slow the charging process ?
Was the battery bench charged over the weekend or was that just from how you left it prior to todays videos ?
A few things i would like to know though are .......
How long was the pump in use , running time ?
How much water did you get through ?
Im asking because you got home with more or less the same charge you left with , i cant get my head around that !
Rich
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That is nuts , how are you getting that much of a return charge from a 20 watt panel ?
This dude is telling me i want 200 watt on the roof .
Maybe these controllers are that safe that they really do slow the charging process ?
Was the battery bench charged over the weekend or was that just from how you left it prior to todays videos ?
A few things i would like to know though are .......
How long was the pump in use , running time ?
How much water did you get through ?
Im asking because you got home with more or less the same charge you left with , i cant get my head around that !
Rich
Ive not bench charged the battery for some time, perhaps dec/jan time was when i probably last bench charged it.
Ive not been solidly working today, but i do just leave my pump or controller left on and only turn it off if im having a long break like lunch or ive finished work for instance.
Yes i havent used my smaller panel today apart from in the afternoon but that was to charge up the smaller 12v battery for hose reel.
Around early lunch time I had to disconnect a couple of times as it went up and past 14v (but thats when pump isnt in use and when i start to use the pump it will drop back down to 13). A couple of times it went down ton12.9 but not much as it was a quieter day for me today.
Tomorrow im flat out and will take some pics and monitor it for you. But today has been quite a sunny day for where I am.
On a flat out day, from memory the battery might drop to about 12.7 or close to 12.6 but then i just hook up the smaller panal and carry on or grab a bite toneat whilst it does its thing
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Thats good , maybe i can save a bit of wonga on panels now !
But for curiousitys sake .....how long was pump running and how much water pumped old boy ?
Also , i see that the small panel is from Photonic Universe , what watt is that one ?
I see they are doing a 100watt and controller for £120 which is good .
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Thats good , maybe i can save a bit of wonga on panels now !
But for curiousitys sake .....how long was pump running and how much water pumped old boy ?
Also , i see that the small panel is from Photonic Universe , what watt is that one ?
I see they are doing a 100watt and controller for £120 which is good .
I'll have a look at the back of it in morning to find out for you n post on here.
Im no sparkie at all, but that sounds a good price for 100w n controller. But to show how dim i may be....lol would a higher wattage panal take longer to warm up n produce the wattage for charging compared to a smaller wattage panal?? Esp if just charging a leisure battery and one pump?? Unless wanting/needing all that wattage or recharging a dead battery?
As im only maintaining //or// topping up a voltage could be the reason for my success with a smaller panal
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That is what you want to be doing , by topping up and maitaining a steady charge it will or should make the battery last longer , deep cycle batteries dont like being wiped out , they dont reckon that going below 50% charge is good , all batteries have a certain numder of charging cycles before they die , i bench charge with smartcharger every day , im lucky to get a year out of them so a solar maintained battery would seem to be the answer for me , plus i wont have to drag it in every night .
With regard to big versus small and warming up i really aint got a clue , but you seem to have hit a sweet spot with the bits you have .
Maybe i could run 2x50 watt instead of 1x 100 watt , toggle switch 1 or 2 depending on sunshine and battery level .
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Solar panels don't warm up to work. They convert sunlight to electrical energy.
So as soon as a panel is exposed to sunlight it will start charging.
According to one RV user he was able to continue to charge his batteries very slowly at night when parked under a streetlight.
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I done a good bit of reading around this as i hope to do a campervan shortly, so maybe it is not going to work out the same exactly but should be similar. Here's some panels, a bit pricey but they have a good reputation and can't be damaged in the same way a monochrystaline one can (glass etc.. )..... no idea whats best for us... 150 watt or 60 watt..........
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201148281543
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-Semi-Flexible-Solar-Panel-12V-Battery-Charging-/401326690766
Regarding controllers, thats a bit of a minefield. As suggested above Mppt controllers are better than PWM controllers, also i believe that split relay chargers arn't all they're cracked up to be. So...........this as far as i understand will take charge from your vehicle battery, and is a solar Mppt controller too, so no unplugging or overcharging, just fit it and leave it to do its thing. it'll charge from panels and vehicle battery . Thats my understanding anyway.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/ring-rscdc30-30a-dc-dc-smart-battery-charger-14-8v/3962r#product_additional_details_container
Pricey i know but it does look like a fit and forget solution.
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Panels lose efficiency when warm.
I use to run a domestic fridge freezer off half a kw, with wind power in the winter.
Battery health is critical.
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Panels lose efficiency when warm.
I use to run a domestic fridge freezer off half a kw, with wind power in the winter.
Battery health is critical.
Might be me mate but that just looks like Father Jack just woke up and shouted something ? Not trying to be funny, any context to what you just said ?
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I done a good bit of reading around this as i hope to do a campervan shortly, so maybe it is not going to work out the same exactly but should be similar. Here's some panels, a bit pricey but they have a good reputation and can't be damaged in the same way a monochrystaline one can (glass etc.. )..... no idea whats best for us... 150 watt or 60 watt..........
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201148281543
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-Semi-Flexible-Solar-Panel-12V-Battery-Charging-/401326690766
Regarding controllers, thats a bit of a minefield. As suggested above Mppt controllers are better than PWM controllers, also i believe that split relay chargers arn't all they're cracked up to be. So...........this as far as i understand will take charge from your vehicle battery, and is a solar Mppt controller too, so no unplugging or overcharging, just fit it and leave it to do its thing. it'll charge from panels and vehicle battery . Thats my understanding anyway.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/ring-rscdc30-30a-dc-dc-smart-battery-charger-14-8v/3962r#product_additional_details_container
Pricey i know but it does look like a fit and forget solution.
That's looks a great bit of kit, two in one controller defo worth considering.
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http://www.ringautomotive.com/files/mydocs/RSCDC30%20Instructions.pdf
Some more info on the ring b2b charger.
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http://www.ringautomotive.com/files/mydocs/RSCDC30%20Instructions.pdf
Some more info on the ring b2b charger.
Thanks Den for finding that.
This is interesting as it appears to cover the issues with regard to the new smart alternators and regenerative battery charging. What I like is that it includes provision for a solar panel charging system to run in tandem.
What does concern me is that the unit appears to draw power from the starter battery to charge the leisure battery.
The Sterling unit doesn't have the provision to include a solar panel but also doesn't draw current from the starter battery to charge the leisure battery. It draws its charge from the alternator only. I think it has a jump lead setting that isolates the batteries when the engine is switched off
This would need further investigation for anyone fitting it.
I was looking at a motorhome forum today and one of the recent discussions was on solar panel charging. One of the avid wild campers says that his 120 watt panel through a MPPT controller will push out about 0.5 amps in winter in cloudy overcast conditions. That's not enough to charge our batteries. Its just enough to keep the batteries fully charged during winter storage with no power draw.
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Thats about 6watts isnt it ?
We need minimum of 70 watt to stay on an even playing field !
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Thats about 6watts isnt it ?
We need minimum of 70 watt to stay on an even playing field !
Agree. That would be minimum for a single operator.
The poster on the forum stated that that 0.5 amps wasn't something they could rely on all through the daylight hours in winter and was probably the maximum they could expect at noon when the sun was at its peak in the sky.
He did also state that being able to tilt panels toward the sun would improve the output, but having them secured flat on his van roof was a disadvantage. Not a helpful solution to us as window cleaners.
His advise was if funds were tight, he would rather spend money on a small quiet petrol generator to charge the batteries in winter rather than fitting solar panels.
Saltburn by the Sea hosts a music festival annually in the Spring. The high school opens up its car park as camping ground for motorhomes and caravans and the school playing fields for tents.
I noticed this year that a good number of caravaners/RVers had the portable folding panels chained and padlocked to their vehicles.
Ask anyone how they manage with their solar panels and most will tell you how wonderful they are. Ask them how much power their units are producing at any given time and most haven't a clue what you are talking about. A few seemed to be very informed about the technicalities of solar where the majority are clueless. Solar seems to be an industry driven by sales people who live in a different climate to the UK.
Caravaning is a recreation that the majority do during the summer and store their vans away during the winter. So actually their requirements from solar are vastly different to ours.
One of the problems we have is that we are a high power draw/user industry. Probably one of the reasons why the battery suppliers don't like us when it comes to warranty.
From a photo NathanKaye put up once of his solar panels, one was horizontally fixed to the roof and the other was loose which he angled toward the sun for extra power. The panel secured to his roof appeared to be around 80 to 100 watts, but memory is quickly abandoning me. The portable panel was smaller.
I have posted before about being an avid armchair traveler and follow the progress of several Yachts and their crew in their around the world adventurers.
A couple of the yachts have 3 large solar panels mounted to the frame holding the tender out of the water, 2 wind generators and 1 also uses a water generator when sailing. The power they need is to mainly keep their navigational equipment, radio communications and auto pilot functioning. They need power to charge laptops and a little for lighting but don't have airconditioning and use propane (gas) for cooking.
And they are in the tropics where they have an abundance of sunshine. They also have the provision of charging batteries with their engine/s running but they all have a petrol generator as a backup if needed.
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I've been using a solar panel to keep a stand alone battery charged for about 18 months now and it's worked well. There have been times in the winter when I thought I'd have to leave a charger on over a weekend, but so far I haven't had to.
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Good post Spruce , it kind of points out that its not as simple as chucking a panel on the roof !
Nathankaye has a 20watt panel on the roof , thats why i found his video hard to take in , it was charging to the point that he was having to disconect for fear of overcharge , sure there were clouds in the sky , but it looked more sunny spell kind of weather .
That being said , even with peak sun and the panel at the correct angle the most you could expect from that panel is 75% (15w).
He should have been on the back foot from the word go , using 70w per hour and gaining 15 per hour max .
I think he said he was out for 4 or so hours , yet he returned home fully charged or close to anyway.
He could have put max of 60 watt into the system via panel , thats why i kept asking how long the pump had been running out of that 4 hours and how much water was used , he has not ansered yet !
With that info we could stand a chance of seeing real performance limitations , for me its not worth spending out yet until i see that i can put at least 280 watt into my system , this would cover me for 4 hours of the pump running , ok it wont be running that long out of the usual 5 hours working time but you have to take worst case scenario with solar .
Lets not forget those days where you dont see direct sun all day long !
In short , i will have to produce 280 watt of power every day over the days daylight hours to make it a plug and go system , which short of putting a solar farm on the roof of my Fiat Fiorino is a pretty tall order .
Good job i love a challenge isnt it ;D
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I've been using a solar panel to keep a stand alone battery charged for about 18 months now and it's worked well. There have been times in the winter when I thought I'd have to leave a charger on over a weekend, but so far I haven't had to.
This is what we need , what does your solar set up consist of , and do you have a split charge also Elfyn ?
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Good post Spruce , it kind of points out that its not as simple as chucking a panel on the roof !
Nathankaye has a 20watt panel on the roof , thats why i found his video hard to take in , it was charging to the point that he was having to disconect for fear of overcharge , sure there were clouds in the sky , but it looked more sunny spell kind of weather .
That being said , even with peak sun and the panel at the correct angle the most you could expect from that panel is 75% (15w).
He should have been on the back foot from the word go , using 70w per hour and gaining 15 per hour max .
I think he said he was out for 4 or so hours , yet he returned home fully charged or close to anyway.
He could have put max of 60 watt into the system via panel , thats why i kept asking how long the pump had been running out of that 4 hours and how much water was used , he has not ansered yet !
With that info we could stand a chance of seeing real performance limitations , for me its not worth spending out yet until i see that i can put at least 280 watt into my system , this would cover me for 4 hours of the pump running , ok it wont be running that long out of the usual 5 hours working time but you have to take worst case scenario with solar .
Lets not forget those days where you dont see direct sun all day long !
In short , i will have to produce 280 watt of power every day over the days daylight hours to make it a plug and go system , which short of putting a solar farm on the roof of my Fiat Fiorino is a pretty tall order .
Good job i love a challenge isnt it ;D
Nathan also heats his water to 60degrees in around 10 hours with a one kilowatt immersion heater, nice guy who's heart is in the
right place but his technical advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Good post Spruce , it kind of points out that its not as simple as chucking a panel on the roof !
Nathankaye has a 20watt panel on the roof , thats why i found his video hard to take in , it was charging to the point that he was having to disconect for fear of overcharge , sure there were clouds in the sky , but it looked more sunny spell kind of weather .
That being said , even with peak sun and the panel at the correct angle the most you could expect from that panel is 75% (15w).
He should have been on the back foot from the word go , using 70w per hour and gaining 15 per hour max .
I think he said he was out for 4 or so hours , yet he returned home fully charged or close to anyway.
He could have put max of 60 watt into the system via panel , thats why i kept asking how long the pump had been running out of that 4 hours and how much water was used , he has not ansered yet !
With that info we could stand a chance of seeing real performance limitations , for me its not worth spending out yet until i see that i can put at least 280 watt into my system , this would cover me for 4 hours of the pump running , ok it wont be running that long out of the usual 5 hours working time but you have to take worst case scenario with solar .
Lets not forget those days where you dont see direct sun all day long !
In short , i will have to produce 280 watt of power every day over the days daylight hours to make it a plug and go system , which short of putting a solar farm on the roof of my Fiat Fiorino is a pretty tall order .
Good job i love a challenge isnt it ;D
Nathan also heats his water to 60degrees in around 10 hours with a one kilowatt immersion heater, nice guy who's heart is in the
right place but his technical advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.
The results are too good to be true territory , thats why i am asking for other results , im just waiting to see what Elfyn has .
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Im posting another couple of vids today working flat out like i said the other day so a true reflection of my working day. I will post them later in evening so i can crack on working then.
Sure videos could be edited etc or even photos for that matter, but i aint got time or patience for either. Thats why littke vids you can see what im doing and how i work and take of it what you will
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Apologies if im a grump as my hose has just flied of my reel and sprayed me in face with 60 odd degree water so not happy to say least!!
Ok a couple of vids showing from half 10 this morning. Before then i was using back pack so kinda pointless.
Ive taken it nearly on the hour after cleaning 15 houses, make of it as you will!!
Ive said many a times its a 20w and a 10w panel....i dont have problems working a day but then im normally finished be 4 latest and odd times at 5pm. Winter i may bench charge but not regular infact i was working in t-shirts a couple of decembers back so dont worry or overthink winter...deal with it when u get to it.
Its a bit like the chaps who dont work in rain because its raining.......yet half of the time its not even raining on the windows. Hope u can see the point im making.
Anyway heres the vids and make of them as u want
https://youtu.be/V3MzIJaJsE0
https://youtu.be/M3Jtnj7CmqE
https://youtu.be/NQFbLh5ZzUs
https://youtu.be/1tdW3uI27Wg
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So how many amps does a pump use that way it would be easier trying to get a understanding of what size panel would be needed to replace the amps used each day.
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We estimated on a fairly compact residential round like Nathan had videoed that our pumps would run for about 50% of the time. The rest of the time is hose management, wiping sills and doing paperwork. Our Shurflo pumps draw about 4.5 amps an hour on our flow rate using a controller.
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4.5 amps is that each pump or 4.5 amps for both?
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4.5 amps is that each pump or 4.5 amps for both?
That is per pump
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4.5 amps is that each pump or 4.5 amps for both?
That is per pump
Dont forget though , if you run a shuflo at full pelt it will pull 6 amps an hour
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Apologies if im a grump as my hose has just flied of my reel and sprayed me in face with 60 odd degree water so not happy to say least!!
Ok a couple of vids showing from half 10 this morning. Before then i was using back pack so kinda pointless.
Ive taken it nearly on the hour after cleaning 15 houses, make of it as you will!!
Ive said many a times its a 20w and a 10w panel....i dont have problems working a day but then im normally finished be 4 latest and odd times at 5pm. Winter i may bench charge but not regular infact i was working in t-shirts a couple of decembers back so dont worry or overthink winter...deal with it when u get to it.
Its a bit like the chaps who dont work in rain because its raining.......yet half of the time its not even raining on the windows. Hope u can see the point im making.
Anyway heres the vids and make of them as u want
https://youtu.be/V3MzIJaJsE0
https://youtu.be/M3Jtnj7CmqE
https://youtu.be/NQFbLh5ZzUs
https://youtu.be/1tdW3uI27Wg
Cheers for that Nathan , i have just been watching a bit more youtube and i think that you are getting good results due to the fact that you dont use the solar controller , most panels chuck out 20v , that is what you are putting straight into the battery , it obviously isnt a massive issue for you as you keep a close eye on it via the PF controller on volt setting , it is going in even though its telling you that you are up to 14/15volts , all you have to watch for is cooking the battery , but you seem to be getting away with it !!!
Good work fella ;D
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Nathan , how long have you been using that same battery with the panels ?
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What happening is Nathan's controller is showing voltage. It will read high because the panel pushes out a high voltage. The important piece is the amps the panel is producing.
When I start my van's engine the voltmeter across the leisure battery could be anywhere between 14.2 and 14.6 volts depending on the capacity of the leisure battery.
But It doesn't mean the amps drawn have been replaced. All the volts are is the carrier for the amps.
So today we have Nathan working on his estate for 2.25 hours. He has a 20 watt panel on his roof and that's all that he used today. In our estimation his pump ran for approx 1 hour, maybe a little more. The rest of the time was doing other stuff.
So at the flow rate he uses my guess is that his pumps will draw about 5 amps an hour.
Lets assume that his battery was fully charged before he started work. His 20 watt panel can only produce 1.6 amps if its working at 100% efficiency. So at 100% efficiency his panels returned 3.6 amps to the battery but his pump drew 5 amps. If the panel was working at 50% of capacity then the figures look worse as he would only put back 1.8 amps, a deficit of 3.2amps.
If he didn't charge his battery last night then there is a possibility that he could have got a couple of charging hours in before work, the battery will still be charging whilst he is eating his carvery and when he finishes this evening he may still have an hour or 2 charging tonight. He doesn't work on a weekend then he has 2 days of charging going into his battery with nothing going out. So maybe over a week the figures might just balance out.
But winter is the problem as the days are shorter. I plug my van in every night and connect up a frost heater, so it is not any further issue to plug in the chargers for the leisure battery and the backpack. I do it every night.
So for me solar is a summer luxury to keep my leisure battery fully charged but questionable in winter.
If you do this then I believe you do need to complicate things. Your need a couple of large 120 watt panels and a decent MPPT controller such as the Victron. This will set you back a good £300- £400 pounds. I think for me the money is better spent cutting out rust and welding new metal patch panels in under my van. before my tank falls through the floor onto the road.
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http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/solar-power/
Spruce The above link I was reading just before you posted your last post the chart shows the difference between summer and winter charging can vary massively.
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http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/solar-power/
Spruce The above link I was reading just before you posted your last post the chart shows the difference between summer and winter charging can vary massively.
I see the difference between summer and winter is quite dramatic looking at that chart. Thanks for the link. It seems to back up what the guy on the forums said.
I'm fully aware of the limitations of my split charge relay charging my leisure battery. The temptation is to try out the Sterling Battery to Battery charger. Charles Sterling shows a dramatic difference with the charging rate (amps) of his leisure battery with a split charge relay compared to a battery to battery charger using the same battery and charge vehicle.
But again I still have to plug my van in every night during the winter, so having an expensive battery to battery charger can't be justified. I've done this winter routine for the past 9 years so I'm figuring another couple of years won't make any difference.
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Think your right maybe I will stick to taking the charger out to the van a couple of times a week, also if I get a new vehicle in the future I would consider the ring b2b charger as posted earlier on this thread due to having the mppt solar energy charger inbuilt in.
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Now it would appear that the above link can be relied upon , its exactly what i was told by the nutty proffesor type guy in the electrical shop i first went in , as little as 1 hour of usable sun on a winter day , this guy has had the same shop in my town for at least 30 years !
I think he is past the sell anything to anybody point , he is there purely to sell people what they need , i trust him .
He told me from the outset that i would need 100w for summer and 200w in the winter to stand a chance of being off grid so to speak .
I have been taking the battery out for 12 years daily , so i can carry on .
For me its more of an access issue lately , parking at my house is getting mental , i used to fill up easy , these days im up to 30m of layflat just to fill up , i have even been forced into having static systems at the front and back of my house , 800 IBC at the front and 450 tank at the back !
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See look , mine is the little white van in the distance ;D
Its getting a chore now >:(
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Bloody hell, no wonder you wanted solar to work. I only have to roll out a extension lead a few feet as I have my own drive just shows how spoilt I and lucky I am.
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Nathan , how long have you been using that same battery with the panels ?
Good question!
I learnt the hard way. I didnt use the control box or regulator when I first started using the panel on top of the van and after say 4 or 5 months the battery wasnt holding its charge for as long as I thought it should. Thats when I looked a little deeper into charging batteries and found out above 14.5 or 15 (cant remember actual figure now) you damage the battery. Well I had it in 16's volts often before i realised and disconnected.
So battery was replaced and also a 2nd as a spare.
So ive used this battery with it for about a year now or perhaps longer. (Its a high cycle life battery 110amp)
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See look , mine is the little white van in the distance ;D
Its getting a chore now >:(
Yes but look at that land, can use that for a solar farm.
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I found this interesting.
This guy is living on his long boat and gives you an idea of what solar is doing in the winter months. He has got a couple of large solar panels; 2 x 240 watt. His daily energy needs are much greater than ours but his panel output will fall far short of what we would use a day in winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uYIrs1RW0
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You need one of these on your van!
http://www.btekenergy.com/documents/air_x_400_watt_12v_24v_land_or_marine.html
Charge while you're on the move!
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You need one of these on your van!
http://www.btekenergy.com/documents/air_x_400_watt_12v_24v_land_or_marine.html
Charge while you're on the move!
;D
The problem is that some little toe rag will destroy it whilst the van is parked down the road away from his front or back door.
If he is going to charge on the move then a split charge relay/battery to battery charger option is the way forward. I'm not 100% sure, but he still may be able to get away with a split charge relay as those small vans don't have regenerative braking. (I have looked on the manufacturer's van specifications and no mention of regenerative braking is listed as a feature.)
A decent size panel will work in summer, but not in winter according to the no sales related info out there.
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I tried it but it did not work that well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MczpSkwTsBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBETHJCPhiY
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The boating chaps vid was an interesting watch. Thankfully i use mine just to keep topping up a 12v 110ah battery being drained by a sureflow 5lpm pump which is what 3-6ah (lost front sheet of the pump) and thats if its flat out everybhour which we know it aint. Walking between jobs or moving van up the street for instance.
Though i do like his pivets for the panel, i might see about copying that idea.
Anyway its a cloudy and wet day today so did another quick video to show if it effects my work....not mentioned how many houses ive done in this hour to safe from any petty arguements so apply the imformation to what you would do in the hour;
https://youtu.be/BuUZW_ggR5c
https://youtu.be/C0TjD_PWBYo
After taking this vid i did one more house before packing up to move van further up the street. After doing the house the reading was;
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1502706837_Screenshot_2017-08-14-11-33-35.png)
But ive now been sat in van for 25mins uploading the vids to youtube and wasting some time on here as well. So im sure it will show atleast 13.
Anyway i can do a little vid when i knock off for the day, but thats if you want me to do so, let me know so im not wasting my time. Cheers guys
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Thanks for posting the narrow boat video very informative.
Nathan I would be interested to see what your battery reads first thing in the morning before the solar panels are connected.
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Thanks for posting the narrow boat video very informative.
Nathan I would be interested to see what your battery reads first thing in the morning before the solar panels are connected.
Yep can do. Once ive finished work i do keep the large panel connected. I only disconnect it when im working during the day and can keep a check on voltage but come evening it will be a slow trickle charge not enough for me to overly worry about, but yes i can post a quick shot of it.
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Ok I see what you mean, I have a split charge relay and was told to check my controller at least 3 hours after the engine as stopped for the battery to settled down to give an accurate reading that's why I was curious to see what your battery reading would be after no input charge, but in your case in theory your battery will still be charging even if the charge is tiny if that makes sense.
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Well what the heck, ive done one anyway haha i know it bores you so can always watch em if struggling to sleep 😂
So a slightly later finish of 4.30 today as its my collecting night, so might as well work a little later. Also cleaned a conny roof using hot pure as well.
Used about 400ltrs outbof 500 today for pump usage (rather than saying how many houses etc) clouds dispersed around 12ish and its been a sunny but cloudy day for rest of the day.
Still kept the little panel on however.
So this is the results;
https://youtu.be/tGpxL1uMijw
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Best solution is to use MPPT rather than PWM. Best to use 48 watt (4 x 12v batteries linked together) 250w mono crystalline panel rather than photovoltaic as it gives more output. Whatever your amps you require ....quadruple it for the british winter times and you should be fine except for the additional weight you put on your roof and the extra weight of the batteries. It's feesible if you can allow for the extra weight. Don't use flexible solar panels unless you plan on leaving a gap underneaththem and even then they don't have a reputation for lasting as long as the rigid frame solar panels.
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Just a couple of things to bear in mind:
1. Shading from ladders will massively reduce your output.
2. How will you know if your set up is 'fire safe'?
3. Think about security and vandalism. Panels get nicked and smashed often.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm a massive green energy advocate. But you need to think about the above.
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Thanks for posting the narrow boat video very informative.
Nathan I would be interested to see what your battery reads first thing in the morning before the solar panels are connected.
Sorry Dan forgot to post this the other morning. So i took this before start of work this morning.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1502872583_Screenshot_2017-08-16-09-34-24.png)
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Thanks for posting .