Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: welmac on June 11, 2006, 11:17:11 pm
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right, bear with me on this!
i bought £380 of domestic work from a window cleaner for 3 cleans. the guy i was buying it from was happy to accept £300 cash upfront, a carbon pole i was "selling" to him for the amount of £380 and then a final payment of £480.
so i gave him the cash first, and then began cleaning the work. the second house i got to told me that this man had never cleaned their windows, so i got on the fone to him and he explained and apologised that he must of made a mistake. fair enough, no ones perfect! the fourth house i got to.....nope, he doesnt clean here, we stopped him a couple of months back. Hmmmmm! by the end of the day i had "lost" £50 worth of work! i expected to lose a couple but never this much.
next day.......loads of queries on the prices he had given me. so again i rang him and he explained how he had increased the price but hadnt been able to tell every one!!!!!!!!!!!! so i turn up, explaining how im the new window cleaner, oh and by the way your windows are now more!!!
and theres more..............!
next group of houses: hey your not using that pole in here (i only do WFP), the old guy always used ladders. again i get on the fone to him, and ask whats going on? he told me when i was agreeing to buy the round that EVERY HOUSE WAS WFP.
well i had had enough. i cancelled the cheque i had just posted him, and we both agreed that we needed to have a sit down and come to a new agreement on the price for the trouble i was having.
anyway, today he has rung me telling me that he is going to take the work back and start it again this coming friday, so he wants his book back with all the house numbers. no problem i say, just return my £300 and we will leave it at that.
Well he hit the roof!!! he said: "how can you call yourself a window cleaner when you dont even have a set of ladders". what??????????? so now its my fault that you lied to me and told me that i didnt even need them on this round?
so basically hes not gunna give me any money back, but hes returning to his customers on friday............any advice/ideas what you would do??? (violence not being an option please ;) )
thanks for being patient! ;D
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Hi If you have a written record take the matter to a solicitor
if not you have little come back I might be tempted to take a photo of H&s infringments and send them in.
Or write a letter letting all the customers know what he has done explain the new rules and also appeal to them as you have paid for the busines and if he has done this he will probably do it again to them you will of course give them a first class service
it may also be fruad to sell something on a different bases than it really is - saying a price is set but not informing the customer? His time being take up by the police might have some effect!
I think a letter to the customers might be the quickest and at least you will know where you stand good luck I hope it pans out for you
regards grant
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What's his reason for not returning your money?
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if thats the way he wants to play it welmac, what to do is take half of what you payed for, give him the other half of the customers, the ones that are canceling, and disagreeing about the prices, you keep the good ones, put that to him and see what he says, sorry but hes taken the p##ss out of your good nature,
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I'd write it off and put it all down to experience. I know that may sound harsh but without anything in writing it may in the end work out the simplest and cheapest.
The only chance you may have to get your money back is through the small claims court.
A solicitor would cost a small fortune and if you don't win, then you'd still have to pay the solicitor. I've been there already. The court concluded we'd bought work based on hearsay and more fool us.
Just mark it up to experience.
Cheers
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If you still have his book, then make an appointment for citizens advice, you will get half an hour with a solicitor free of charge.do it this way and at least you know were you stand.
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Hi Welmac,
Its easy as I see it.
No Money, NO Book !!
You have acted in a professional and honest way and have done nothing wrong. It appears to me that the guy has now realised your not going to just accept the customers complaints and feels you will be more hassle to him, therefore, if he gets his book back he may be able to sell it to someone not quite as sharp!!
The points he raised about WFP is nonsense. Did he stipulate what method you should use or was he more interested in your cash I wonder??
Is he a company?? If so report him to the Trading Standards and report him to the police for his working ethics.
I would also copy his book out, then pop a letter through EVERY door explaining that you had intended to take over his round but it didn't work out, however, should they wish for you to continue or should he let them down please contact me 01234 XXXXXXX
If he asks why you have done that explain that you are a reputable company and do not wish the customers think bad of you, all you have done is explain that your're not continuing and if they ever need you they have your number.
Thats the non violent way, personally I would wait for him to get up his ladder and show him just what the WAH directive is about!!! What a w****r
Best wishes,
Trev
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This is why and it is only my opinion that buying work is 9 times out of 10 dodgy but i do no of wcs going down this avenue and getting a good result but i have a good pal who recently paid just over £4000.00 for a lot of commercial work in Birmingham and his kick in the B######s was after 2 cleans 70 percent of them cancelled.
I just wander if they are using the old wc again, the good thing is that all this was
exchanged via a solicitor and the matter is now back in his hands.
GOLDEN RULE ON THIS< FIND YOUR OWN WORK OR BE VERY VERY CAREFULL.
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right, bear with me on this!
i bought £380 of domestic work from a window cleaner for 3 cleans. the guy i was buying it from was happy to accept £300 cash upfront, a carbon pole i was "selling" to him for the amount of £380 and then a final payment of £480.
3 X face value.
Although a couple of people have had a negative experience with them, doorknockers do get alot of good feedback and they only charge 2 X face value.
And their bad feedback is nothing underhand.
Try them.
At least try and canvass the addresses you have.
Let us know how this works out.
good luck
mark
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i have still got his book that he has been using for the past year or so with all the numbers in it.
his reason for not returning any money is that: "i have cleaned some of the work so thats my money back"..........??????????????
what really annoys me is that before i agreed to get the work i made him work out to the penny what it should bring in a month and stressed numerous amounts of times that i only wanted work that was WFP, and he assured me it WAS ALL WFP, and the amount was £380 per month. (i did this because guess what, the previous guy i got work off did the exact same thing). well it wasnt £380 per month (due to him increasing prices without informing customers) and they were not all WFP houses!
up to now, i have "explained politely" that he is not getting his book, but he has replied saying that hes managed to remember the numbers so doesnt want it now. he is coming to clean the work this friday regardless.
i could go and see him when he does, but ive got a feeling this isnt a good idea (for obvious reasons >:().
i have thought of going around the customers and speaking to them, but the problem with this, is this guy has been cleaning them for a few years and he does actually have a good standing with most of them. so if i turn up with my "story", and then he turns up with his on friday, i think the majority will believe him over me :(.
let you know how i get on.
moral of the story............just cos you think you know someone doesnt mean they still wont rip you off!!!!!!!!!!!
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Welmac,
Write a letter and drop it through everyones house that is in his book.
Two reasons,
1) Explain what has happened.
2) If he is selling he has aready lost interest and is less likely to maintain this round on a regular basis if at all. At least when he doesn't turn up they will call you and you get the customer back on your books.
Think about it, he tried to rip you off, failed, lost his book and now says, oh yeah, I can remember them. The chances of him actually getting out there I would say is less than 20%, the chances of him continuing on a regular basis is probably zero!
Don't let him walk away from this, take action and take it tomorrow evening. People like to deal with epople they can trust, lets face it, we clean peoples houses when they are not in, so trust is a BIG issue.
Keep going and like I said earlier, report him to Trading Standards/ Helath and Safety/ Tax man the list is endless.
best wishes,
Trev
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Write a letter and drop it through everyones house that is in his book.
Two reasons,
1) Explain what has happened.
2) If he is selling he has aready lost interest and is less likely to maintain this round on a regular basis if at all. At least when he doesn't turn up they will call you and you get the customer back on your books.
well i think i know what im doing in the morning!!!!!!
thanks!
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Also,
Ensure the money you have paid and the worth of the pole is written as an expense against your taxes.
Keep the book and any other paperwork you have to support your explanation; should you ever have to explain it!
At least this way, you'll pay less tax, so won't have lost out too much.
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Wouldn't that be classed as theft.
You can't sell something and just take it back.
I would contact the police.
And tell him im doing it he might just change his mind.
Paul
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why dont you just clean the windows on thursday the day before and get your money back that way
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right, bear with me on this!
i bought £380 of domestic work from a window cleaner for 3 cleans. the guy i was buying it from was happy to accept £300 cash upfront, a carbon pole i was "selling" to him for the amount of £380 and then a final payment of £480.
so i gave him the cash first, and then began cleaning the work. the second house i got to told me that this man had never cleaned their windows, so i got on the fone to him and he explained and apologised that he must of made a mistake. fair enough, no ones perfect! the fourth house i got to.....nope, he doesnt clean here, we stopped him a couple of months back. Hmmmmm! by the end of the day i had "lost" £50 worth of work! i expected to lose a couple but never this much.
next day.......loads of queries on the prices he had given me. so again i rang him and he explained how he had increased the price but hadnt been able to tell every one!!!!!!!!!!!! so i turn up, explaining how im the new window cleaner, oh and by the way your windows are now more!!!
and theres more..............!
next group of houses: hey your not using that pole in here (i only do WFP), the old guy always used ladders. again i get on the fone to him, and ask whats going on? he told me when i was agreeing to buy the round that EVERY HOUSE WAS WFP.
well i had had enough. i cancelled the cheque i had just posted him, and we both agreed that we needed to have a sit down and come to a new agreement on the price for the trouble i was having.
anyway, today he has rung me telling me that he is going to take the work back and start it again this coming friday, so he wants his book back with all the house numbers. no problem i say, just return my £300 and we will leave it at that.
Well he hit the roof!!! he said: "how can you call yourself a window cleaner when you dont even have a set of ladders". what??????????? so now its my fault that you lied to me and told me that i didnt even need them on this round?
so basically hes not gunna give me any money back, but hes returning to his customers on friday............any advice/ideas what you would do??? (violence not being an option please ;) )
thanks for being patient! ;D
hi welmac
we never buy any round off no one, its only the good will you are buying, and means nothing, if a costumer dont like the look of you , they get another window cleaner, we all learn by our mistakes, sorry this as happened to you.
mandy and angie
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Why not name him in the local newspaper and explain what has happened.
I would also go to the Police and see what they have to say because i'm sure this is classed as theft.
He might try it again with someone else and do exactly the same.
At least putting it in the local paper will probably let most of his customers see what he is really like (untrustworthy) and hopefully and new customers he's likely to get.
Craig
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Why not name him in the local newspaper and explain what has happened.
I would also go to the Police and see what they have to say because i'm sure this is classed as theft.
He might try it again with someone else and do exactly the same.
At least putting it in the local paper will probably let most of his customers see what he is really like (untrustworthy) and hopefully and new customers he's likely to get.
Craig
They would not print it. Without proof it is libellous. Even truth is not always a defence against libel.
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Hi Welmac.
I would keep the book like Trever said & also get some legal advice. Unfortunatly there is people out there that think its alright to con others. ???
Giving him a slap may make you feel better & i think people like that deserve it but why lower yourself to his level.
Get some advice but dont hand the book over. If you come to the conclusion its a no win, put the book though the shredder. ;)
Macc
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Welmac this guy sounds like a fly by night
tell him that you have passed the details onto your solicitor, and it is now out of your hands including the book."So sorry I cant talk to you as you will need to deal with my solicitor", keep your cool while doing this.He will panic and try to come up with some solution for you to withdraw from the solicitor, as he wil be afraid that more than just a window cleaning round will come out into the open
regarding his affairs.Tell him" if you want to carry on then that is fine, my solicitor told me that I have an open and shut case, so I will get my money back anyway"
"oh and by the way you will have the court costs as well.Thank you for your time but I must move on now I am busy"
you dont need to approach a solicitor- but basically bluff your case, and I would be surprised if this does not work
you have nothing to lose- you are using the fear of opening a can of worms for him
hope this helps jinky
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why dont you just clean the windows on thursday the day before and get your money back that way
Thats what I would do...
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At the end of the day its £380 that you are talking about... By the time you've typed up a letter, posted it through all the letterboxes, been to citizens advice, and contacted the police you could have earnt money cleaning windows!
So... Go on Thursday and clean the windows and collect that evening... And then try and do the same the following month.
Andy
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i would also clean them on thursday and when i asked for payment i would make sure you used the book you have so that the customer could see that you have it,
then call and see them on monday night to see if everything is ok with their windows that way if the other window cleaner doesnt clean them you will know
you will soon get the £300 back this way
gary
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the windows were only cleaned a fortnight ago, so i dont know what the customers are gunna think to him returning when he has told them hes sold it on and hows he gunna explain them getting the windows done fortnightly ???
im going to type up a letter and get it sent off to him and see what happens.
normally i wouldnt buy work, but as said i knew this guy beforehand and thought i would be ok :-[
anyway............
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With everything that has been posted I think the best way forward is this:
1) Letter to customers as I suggested.
2) Tell him it is with your solicitor like Jinky said.
3) Make sure you KEEP the book.
Hope it works out for you.
regards,
Trev
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With everything that has been posted I think the best way forward is this:
1) Letter to customers as I suggested.
2) Tell him it is with your solicitor like Jinky said.
3) Make sure you KEEP the book.
Hope it works out for you.
that book aint going nowhere!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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dump a packet of path clear crystals on his front lawn one night just before rain is expected....a new lawn should stand him in at about £300....nothing will grow there for six months......so it could be a few new loads of turf before he works it out!!!!
then put it down to experience!
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Just had a read of this thread for the first time and to be honest, if you are willing to hand over £1000 or more for a round that you have never seen or surveyed, never been introduced to the customers of, and in essence never fully quantified what you were buying, then I am sorry to say it but you have only got yourself to blame.
I hope you do get sorted out with this person, but to be honest I wouldn't hold my breath.
Best of luck and if nothing else we should all learn by your mistakes and misfortune.
I have only ever bought one round, similar in size to yours, but I went round every house with the lad, introduced myself to all the customers and knew exactly what I was buying into before parting with the money.
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I have only ever bought one round, similar in size to yours, but I went round every house with the lad, introduced myself to all the customers and knew exactly what I was buying into before parting with the money.
Dont you think its a bit sad we have to watch our backs, dot the eyes & cross the tees. i wouldnt expect or hope not to get riped off & i wouldnt do it to some one else. in my oppinion the guy is a magot.
Good luck sorting it Welmac
Macc
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I agree it is a bit sad, however, there is always someone out there who will try and take your money by promising things that aren't true.
That's life unfortunately!
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excuse me for my ignorance what are clear crystals?
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what are clear crystals?
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normally i wouldnt hand over any money untill i had met everyone, but as i knew this pewrson i thought i was safe :-[
anyway, update:-
i sent him a letter that he got thursday, stating that i was taking him to court on the grounds of "misrepresentation" and "theft". guess what............about 12.30 i receive a text message offering me some of my money back (not all of it, but its a start!).
i think he knows he doesnt have a leg to stand on, so is starting to panick a bit know.
as i said before its not the amount of money, at the end of the day its only £300. its the fact that some people seem to think they can just take your money for nothing!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
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Nice one!!!!
Make sure you get it all back, I know its about the principle but money is money.
best wishes,
Trev
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sorry i had a few beers, "path clear" crystals.(or weedol)...is what i meant to say, very effective on clearing anything that grows green! for 6 months
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You could always report him to the taxman. If he's as dodgy as he seems its a pound to a penny he's not paying tax.
It won't solve your problem but it will make you feel better and it will give him something to think about.
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You could always report him to the taxman. If he's as dodgy as he seems its a pound to a penny he's not paying tax.
It won't solve your problem but it will make you feel better and it will give him something to think about.
well at his own admission this round is "pocket money" for him :o
TBH i just want to get back my money and then have nowt to do with the guy.
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Hi Welmac,
Send another letter today,
Dear........
Further to my previous latter dated....
I am writing to you to inform you that unless payment in full is made to my office by 14.00 on Friday 23rd June 2006 I will instruct my solicitor to commence legal proceedings to recover the amount outstanding. If this matter cannot be resolved then I will not hesitate to commence court proceedings for the amount outstanding along with any costs incurred.
I look forward to receiving your payment at which point I will return your book along with any other records referring to your round.
Yours sincerely,
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You will have to keep at him otherwise he will think you will just go away.
If need be go to the local county court, get a small claims form and send it to him, he will se you mean business.
This will cost you next to nothing.
Keep going, it will be worth it in the end.
Best wishes,
Trev
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Why not cut the cr*p and just kill him. Video it and post it on here so we can have a laugh.
What? Who said I've got no sense of proportion? :)
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You could always report him to the taxman. If he's as dodgy as he seems its a pound to a penny he's not paying tax.
It won't solve your problem but it will make you feel better and it will give him something to think about.
Benefit fraud hotline would also be a good idea.
Best of luck regards Mal
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get your money back, then give him a dentist bill to boot ;)
gaza
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Well what a headache a !. If i were you, i would just forget the whole thing, I know you have lost money, but by what you say about this guy, you really think your gonna get your money back ?. I know you dont want any trouble with this guy, but i really do think you should leave it a few months and then start getting your mates to call him with new jobs all over the place, you wont get your money back this way, but atleast your be putting him out some what, with no violence what so ever..... All the best in your future investments.....
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thats a good idea or send him a bill for all its cost you to set up your system.telling him thats what you have paid out to start up on the strengh of this work this guy sounds like a pr++k