Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: 8weekly on July 11, 2017, 07:19:39 am
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According to the government anyway. The irony big multi nationals not paying billions in tax yet focusing on window cleaners to rescue the economy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40561807
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A fella I had working for me for three years would do other work, a mix of decorating and window cleaning. There were times when he'd have a decorating job worth a few thousand pounds which was paid entirely in cash. All of his window cleaning was paid in cash as well. There are window cleaners who are paid entirely in cash and never appear above the radar so far as the tax-man is concerned.
People who don't contribute to society invariably are the ones who need the services a government provides yet they aren't able to put two and two together and realise someone has to pay for it. Well, they do but don't give a $hit about that.
Quite often I contemplate contacting HMRC over a couple I know. When I say a couple I mean the fella who worked for me and his girlfriend who's a domestic cleaner, so same payment structure for her as him.
Dim, thick and tax avoiders. One day ...
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A fella I had working for me for three years would do other work, a mix of decorating and window cleaning. There were times when he'd have a decorating job worth a few thousand pounds which was paid entirely in cash. All of his window cleaning was paid in cash as well. There are window cleaners who are paid entirely in cash and never appear above the radar so far as the tax-man is concerned.
People who don't contribute to society invariably are the ones who need the services a government provides yet they aren't able to put two and two together and realise someone has to pay for it. Well, they do but don't give a $hit about that.
Quite often I contemplate contacting HMRC over a couple I know. When I say a couple I mean the fella who worked for me and his girlfriend who's a domestic cleaner, so same payment structure for her as him.
Dim, thick and tax avoiders. One day ...
Yes, I agree with that, but it's peanuts compared to the off shoring etc.
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Its all smoke and mirrors nonsence, the Government gets all your money anyway, whether its taxed at source or indirectly, 20% of everthing you spend is tax (VaT), unless you totally hide it and acumulate millions (very difficult in the current climate), The Government will have taken there share, 65% of you petrol spend goes on tax, The big corperations shift it offfshore and thay are the real problem,removing money from the ecomomy.
The self employed put alot of it back and as it circulates the government skims a very nice chunk, 20% on you van, 20% on all you home improvements, your Gardiners bill, your funeral,your water,electricity,gas its all taxed you could all pay it at source in income tax or have more to spend and pay it along the way, either way, they can only get it once.
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In addition to this I know a few people who have set up several businesses all doing the same thing to avoid paying VAT.
what goes around comes around.
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In addition to this I know a few people who have set up several businesses all doing the same thing to avoid paying VAT.
what goes around comes around.
Can this be done if seperate businesses? i.e window cleaning company and a decorating company ?
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The thing that irritates me more than anything are the ones employing people and calling them self employed. There's one local firm with three vans, all self employed staff and not vat registered.
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The thing that irritates me more than anything are the ones employing people and calling them self employed. There's one local firm with three vans, all self employed staff and not vat registered.
Well not for long. They are looking at coming down harder on this so called gig economy. That irritates me too. Like I said when they get found out they will go out of business.
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In addition to this I know a few people who have set up several businesses all doing the same thing to avoid paying VAT.
what goes around comes around.
Can this be done if seperate businesses? i.e window cleaning company and a decorating company ?
If you have a ltd company offering window cleaning services, and a ltd company offering decorating services and the geographical location is the same, the customer base is the same you are essentially the sole director of each or one of them then no you are breaking the law. So a customer who you did a window cleaning job with your window cleaning company suddenly wants you to do decorating and you do that through your decorating company this is a blatant artifical seperation of trade. HMRC will take you to the cleaners for unpaid vat. As they will argue that the two companies mutually benefit each other that you are a director of.
What you really should do is have ABC ltd as window cleaning & decorating services and pay the VAT.
Now if you were a director of ABC window cleaning in London for example, and DEF decorating in Birmingham. Then this would be more likely to be passable as the geographical location of the two are not mutually benifical. However, it will still be at the discretion of HMRC on a case by case basis.
Bottom line is this... when you hit VAT just bite the bullet and register.
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The way to get around being VAT registered if you own several companies is simple. You just need to make one of the businesses a partnership. Use a friend/family and make them a silent partner in the business. I know tons of people who do this and it is legitimate.
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The way to get around being VAT registered if you own several companies is simple. You just need to make one of the businesses a partnership. Use a friend/family and make them a silent partner in the business. I know tons of people who do this and it is legitimate.
Nonsense.
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The way to get around being VAT registered if you own several companies is simple. You just need to make one of the businesses a partnership. Use a friend/family and make them a silent partner in the business. I know tons of people who do this and it is legitimate.
Complete rubbish.
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In addition to this I know a few people who have set up several businesses all doing the same thing to avoid paying VAT.
what goes around comes around.
Can this be done if seperate businesses? i.e window cleaning company and a decorating company ?
If you have a ltd company offering window cleaning services, and a ltd company offering decorating services and the geographical location is the same, the customer base is the same you are essentially the sole director of each or one of them then no you are breaking the law. So a customer who you did a window cleaning job with your window cleaning company suddenly wants you to do decorating and you do that through your decorating company this is a blatant artifical seperation of trade. HMRC will take you to the cleaners for unpaid vat. As they will argue that the two companies mutually benefit each other that you are a director of.
What you really should do is have ABC ltd as window cleaning & decorating services and pay the VAT.
Now if you were a director of ABC window cleaning in London for example, and DEF decorating in Birmingham. Then this would be more likely to be passable as the geographical location of the two are not mutually benifical. However, it will still be at the discretion of HMRC on a case by case basis.
Bottom line is this... when you hit VAT just bite the bullet and register.
Ah ok. It had crossed my mind when and if onr day i was getting close to vat to start another business altogether like plumbing or ebay business or whatever and get that one up to vat limit and so on.
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What about fiddling expenses, is that aloud? (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1499780561_tongue.gif)
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The way to get around being VAT registered if you own several companies is simple. You just need to make one of the businesses a partnership. Use a friend/family and make them a silent partner in the business. I know tons of people who do this and it is legitimate.
Nonsense.
If you have a window cleaning business operating as a sole trader turning over say £70,000 per year, and another business in a completely unrelated industry set up as a equal partnership and your turnover is say £70,000, the total amount across all of your businesses has surpassed the VAT Threshold of £83,000, yet legally you don't need to be registered for VAT. This is legitimate, i know several local people in my area doing this, i even asked my own chartered accountant and she said technically it is a legal loophole and there isn't anything wrong with it.
If somebody can provide evidence to suggest otherwise i really genuinely would like to hear it, i'm only going off what i have researched so far.
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In addition to this I know a few people who have set up several businesses all doing the same thing to avoid paying VAT.
what goes around comes around.
Can this be done if seperate businesses? i.e window cleaning company and a decorating company ?
If you have a ltd company offering window cleaning services, and a ltd company offering decorating services and the geographical location is the same, the customer base is the same you are essentially the sole director of each or one of them then no you are breaking the law. So a customer who you did a window cleaning job with your window cleaning company suddenly wants you to do decorating and you do that through your decorating company this is a blatant artifical seperation of trade. HMRC will take you to the cleaners for unpaid vat. As they will argue that the two companies mutually benefit each other that you are a director of.
What you really should do is have ABC ltd as window cleaning & decorating services and pay the VAT.
Now if you were a director of ABC window cleaning in London for example, and DEF decorating in Birmingham. Then this would be more likely to be passable as the geographical location of the two are not mutually benifical. However, it will still be at the discretion of HMRC on a case by case basis.
Bottom line is this... when you hit VAT just bite the bullet and register.
Ah ok. It had crossed my mind when and if onr day i was getting close to vat to start another business altogether like plumbing or ebay business or whatever and get that one up to vat limit and so on.
Like you do.... ;D
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The way to get around being VAT registered if you own several companies is simple. You just need to make one of the businesses a partnership. Use a friend/family and make them a silent partner in the business. I know tons of people who do this and it is legitimate.
Nonsense.
If you have a window cleaning business operating as a sole trader turning over say £70,000 per year, and another business in a completely unrelated industry set up as a equal partnership and your turnover is say £70,000, the total amount across all of your businesses has surpassed the VAT Threshold of £83,000, yet legally you don't need to be registered for VAT. This is legitimate, i know several local people in my area doing this, i even asked my own chartered accountant and she said technically it is a legal loophole and there isn't anything wrong with it.
If somebody can provide evidence to suggest otherwise i really genuinely would like to hear it, i'm only going off what i have researched so far.
If you're that confident, phone up HMRC, tell them what you're up to, see how that goes.
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i also know of window cleaners who sell parts of there rounds off for cash
how shocking that would be :) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i also know of window cleaners who sell parts of there rounds off for cash
how shocking that would be :) ;D ;D ;D ;D
But there's no difference in selling part of your round for cash than cleaning someone's windows for cash. You're assuming because it's sold for cash it isn't declared.
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i also know of window cleaners who sell parts of there rounds off for cash
how shocking that would be :) ;D ;D ;D ;D
But there's no difference in selling part of your round for cash than cleaning someone's windows for cash. You're assuming because it's sold for cash it isn't declared.
and who would do a thing like that ;D :D
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If your limited companies are different enough, then you can keep them separate and avoid vat.
However, if they share the same tools, vehicle etc it's a no no.
I was going to try it with solar panels and windows but nope.
Now I must charge vat.
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operating as a sole trader turning over say £70,000 per year,
Why would you want to operate as a sole trader at 70k a year? That's madness. And to have two separate business as a sole trader wouldn't make a difference. A sole trader only completes a personal tax return. So a half partnership on one 70k business and full ownership of the other 70k means that you have a 105k turnover on your self employment, which would require you to register for VAT.
I'd get some decent tax advice if I was you.
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It's clear no matter what i say will change your thinking on this, so i will do just as you ask. I will get tax advice on this matter directly from HMRC.
Personally i don't plan to even be in this situation for at least a few years, so it's nothing that directly affects the way i run my business at present.
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They call it artificial separation. They back date your vat when they catch you, as far back as 20 years.
http://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/articles/artificial-separation-company-6639.html
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They call it artificial separation. They back date your vat when they catch you, as far back as 20 years.
http://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/articles/artificial-separation-company-6639.html
The problem is that they actually don't catch the people trading like this or any dodgy way. A perfect example is hairdressers. Most are self employed although they work full time in the same salon and can't choose their days. Classic dodge of NI and holiday pay. Every hairdresser in Newbury operates that way.
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The cost of the investigation would likely be more than tax returned to hmrc.
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They call it artificial separation. They back date your vat when they catch you, as far back as 20 years.
http://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/articles/artificial-separation-company-6639.html
Correct. In fact they can go as far back as 40 years in some blatant cases of VAT fraud. Trust me if they can make an example of you they will throw the book at you.
Not only are you going to have to pay the money back, you may end up doing time in prison. VAT fraud is very serious, more so than income tax.
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They call it artificial separation. They back date your vat when they catch you, as far back as 20 years.
http://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/articles/artificial-separation-company-6639.html
However, if you set up a different company (completely unrelated, like say an ice cream van or brothel) then it's a different company and not an artificially separated one.
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However, if you set up a different company (completely unrelated, like say an ice cream van or brothel) then it's a different company and not an artificially separated one.
The age old dilemma.....
A 99 or 69?
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They call it artificial separation. They back date your vat when they catch you, as far
back as 20 years.
http://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/articles/artificial-separation-company-6639.html
However, if you set up a different company (completely unrelated, like say an ice cream van or brothel) then it's a different company and not an artificially separated one.
Love how you went from ice cream van to brothel in the same line ;D ;D